Andrew Young Resigns From Working Families For Wal-Mart

As much as I have no respect or use for Andrew Young, I have to say his remarks are very true.  My many black friends have told me this for years how they were reipped off by those as mentioned. He said he knew they paid more, but that the stores would always give them credit. Now as we post on here can we keep it factual and not name calling.

Well, what’s interesting about Young’s comments is that they accurately reflect the sentiment of many Blacks in major metro areas across the country, where resentment towards Asian, Arab and Jewish shopkeepers is easy to uncover. It’s also true that many of the corner grocery stores in Black communities sell meat and produce of woeful quality. It’s obvious that the real money is in snack foods, liquor and cigarettes. Further, Black communities have been underserved by large grocery stores for decades. When the high-rise public housing in Chicago began to be demolished and high-priced condos started springing up, a shiny new Dominick’s supermarket appeared out of nowhere.

So, Young’s words stung. They were overly broad and general. But were they racist? Were they wrong?

Andy is backpealling fast: ““It’s unfortunate and I should not have said it and I apologize for it. It has not been my experience or my meaning,” he said.

Well, that’s a lie. I bet that HAS been his experience and I bet that WAS his meaning. He should have stuck to his guns and re-focused the debate on underserved Black communities.

(I’m being narrow on this and restricting it to Blacks because Hispanics in my city have done a better job of developing independent markets for their neighborhoods.)

Let’s not get sidetracked by what amounts to Young’s Hymie-town incident.

Let’s talk about why Black communities are underserved by markets. Is WalMart the only solution? What about independent markets? Let’s hear from the other players in the business.

Check this out from the Chicago Tribune:

City action sought on food deserts: Health commissioner urges access to stores
Chicago Tribune
Published July 19, 2006

Chicago will not be able to reduce the health disparities plaguing residents of “food deserts,” where fast-food restaurants abound and grocery stores are scarce, until its public policies increase access to healthy food. A new study concludes that residents of such areas in the city are more likely to die prematurely from diabetes, cancer and heart disease, as well as suffer from obesity and hypertension. Overall, the study shows the worst food choices fall in African-American neighborhoods on the South and West Sides.

The story continues at http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chicago/chi-0607190168jul19,1,4617365.story

Anyway, it’s a shame that Young became a shill for one company in particular and it’s a greater shame that he likely has derailed further debate on the central issue of access to healthy food.

It’s a new America we are dealing with today, TRUTH is out and POLITICAL CORRECTNESS is in.  Watch what you say Andrew, you might hurt someones FEELINGS and it’s better to keep the bad practices, than to cause low self esteem.

I am attending unneccessary funerals, and I am watching more and more people in the poor Black community getting arrested for being forced into the drug economy as their last resort to providing an income for themselves and their families.

Watching people WITH incomes tell people who are chronically unemployed WITHOUT incomes why they shouldnt take low paying jobs at WalMart. I AM TIRED of this pain and suffering. People trying to get off the street people whose unemployment benefits have run out; people who are renting rooms, sharing apartments, or living with family members trying to make as much as $200-$1,000 per month for their share of the expenses.

An entry level job at WalMart would make them more than enough money to take care of those basic expenses until something etter came along. THATS MUCH BETTER than being forced into prostitution, gangs and drugs, jail and death. I AM TIRED, but I guess I am the only one watching these developments.

So here I go, on my way to another funeral, only to look at this personas face, remembering how they were begging for any type of work to stay off the streets, but it couldnt come fast enough as this debate continues.

I have been in public service for 30 years, including 7 years as a National Staff member to the Rev. Jesse L. Jackson, Sr.

Fellows like Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and now Andrew Young prove repeatedly that despite their protestations about the inequality of opportunities available to blacks in this country due to deeply ingrained systematic racism in our legal and financial systems and our society as a whole, that they too are open to being accused of just what they accuse their detractors of being- racist.
Perhaps not though, perhaps they are just like a majority of people in this world in that they just want to protect their own well being. And the way that has been accomplished throughout history is that like peoples have banded together in the spirit of self-preservation of their own race, religion, ethnicity or beliefs.
Opportunistic ‘black civil rights leaders’ like to brand others who practice this way of life as racist but what do they call themselves?
Me....I’ll just call them human beings (albeit hypocritical ones).

Don’t much care for the racial swipe that Mr Young has taken, but I have first-hand knowledge of the situation he describes. Big national grocery stores run away from urban areas and they leave the Doc’s Food Shop on the corner to serve as the neighborhood grocery. Bad stuff. High prices. Complain about it and they’ll tell you to move to the North Side (or the West side..whatever the nice part of your town is) and shop at Safeway. They know they have a captive local market so they charge whatever they can get.

I don’t understand why WalMart doesn’t get credit for wanting to build in urban areas where other grocery stores will not and have not. It seems to me that they want to provide jobs for the communities and give the folks access to the same price, selection, and value for money that the suburbanites get. I bet if you asked the people on the street they would tell you they would like to have a WalMart close by.

Tonight I attended an anti-walmart meeting organized by “Change Walmart, Change America” and Move On groups. I did not like what I saw. Perhaps the young people who did the presentation are well meaning but it left me with many questions. I am suspicious of the originating group’s motivations. I am angered at how some Democratic politicians are running around Iowa and showing up in these anti-walmart meetings.

I disagree with how the group has targeted Walmart for things that most retailers are doing. Plus the group seems to be blaming Walmart for all the job loss and foreign made goods. They totally ignored the very destructive US trade agreements, NAFTA and CAFTA, until I brought it up at the very end when they allowed a very few questions. The presenter gave a nervous muddled brush off answer.

Its nearly impossible to buy products made in the USA. Its pretty silly to blame Walmart for all the foriegn made goods being sold in almost all retail stores, especially the high cost products being sold in the high end retail stores.

The Anti-Walmart group tonight laid far too much of our country’s problems on Walmart. I don’t buy that at all. Our federal trade agreements, brought to us by both political parties, are mostly to blame.

Andrew Young gold medalled in racism at the idiot olympics.

Mark S. Allen in Chicago, Illinois 60652.  I have a question of you. How does someone be forced into selling drugs, or other violations of the law. You are making excuses for the sorry, lazy people who do not want to work and contribute to society. Tell your black friends to check the newspaper when they sober up or come off thier drug-high and get a job.....they are out there.

Was Mr Young paid anything for being the leader for Working Families for Wal-mart? Did he do it for free, or did Wal-mart pay him a salary? And if they did, how much did Wal-mart pay Mr. Young for his work? It would be VERY INTERESTING if anyone had an answer to this.

Mags wrote: “I don’t understand why WalMart doesn’t get credit for wanting to build in urban areas where other grocery stores will not and have not. It seems to me that they want to provide jobs for the communities and give the folks access to the same price, selection, and value for money that the suburbanites get. I bet if you asked the people on the street they would tell you they would like to have a WalMart close by.”

I’ll give you several reasons.

1. WalMart seems to exploit it workers by failing to provide adequate benefits and by keeping many of its workers at part-time status.

2. WalMart seems to exploit it workers by failing to pay overtime wages.

3. WalMart seems to have a problem with promoting women.

4. Some people might say that WalMart is merely using it’s dominant position to pay the lowest wages that it can and maximize profits. But people with a sense of morality have a problem with the largest company in the world being so cheap and seemingly cold-hearted.

5. Though we have clearly entered the era of the big box retailer, some people find it depressing to walk into a store where the selection is based solely on price. The few times I’ve been forced to shop at a WalMart (when travelling in rural America), I’ve sensed that the food selection is the same as you’d find in a gas station or writ large. It’s depressing to go to a small town and realize that the only place to shop is WalMart.

6. Don’t make the mistake of thinking that WalMart’s attempt move into cities is based on some altruistic mood. They are merely exploiting a void in the economy. They’ve taken over every rural area and small town in North America...the only places left are the big cities. To the extent that this benefits consumers in cities, great. But it’s a shame that people have had to suffer for so long and are so desperate that anti-union WalMart seems like a blessing. Black neighborhoods in Chicago once had vibrant economic corridors. Many, many factors contributed to their decline. It seems a shame that Black people should have to settle for a WalMart while on the North Side of town you have economic corridors on Clark Street, Broadway, Halsted, Armitage...streets that provide diverse shopping opportunities.

7. WalMart sells ugly clothes.

8. WalMart is flooding the globe with cheap, useless plastic garbage.

I’ve tried to keep my lines of thought straight, but to sum up, WalMart should pay it’s people better, provide better benefits, fix whatever problems exist for women in the company, stop polluting the planet with cheap, useless crap and sell a higher grade of clothing.

I still wouldn’t shop there because, to me, WalMart represents the death of choice and diversity and is anti-urban. I also wonder what sort of creepy right-wing agenda they have going in the background.

Has this web site done a compare and contrast of pay and benefits for WalMart vs. Target? Can one of the WebMasters work that up? Seems the “Big Box” ordinance in Chicago should really have been called the “WalMart” ordinance. No one I know has a problem with Target.

South Side in Chicago,

Answers to your questions:

1.) Wal-Mart pays better wages then most ‘big box retailers and gives better benefits then they do.  A lot of people, expecially teenagers and college students, prefer “Part Time”.

2.) They do pay overtime, but they just try to keep overtime to a minimum, because it pays time and a half or double time.

3.) They do promote women, look at who the people are being quoted here as spokepersons for Wal-Mart.  It is just that many of the women who work for Wal-Mart, aren’t in life positions to do what is necessary in upper management positions.

4.) This is the whole purpose that businesses are in business in the first place, to produce PROFIT, after all, they are not charities, are they?

5.) Here, you start to sound like an elitist, the WHOLE idea, behind Wal-Mart is keeping prices LOW.

6.) Sure, they are not being altruistic, they are trying to fulfill a need and make a profit, like I said, they aren’t a charity.  Your statement, “anti-union WalMart”, tends to define your agenda here, would you feel the same if they were “UNION”?  As for setteling for Wal-Mart instead of diverse shopping, where are all of those other store and why aren’t they building there?

7.) That’s your opinion, if they are so ugly, people wouldn’t buy them, Elitist comment again.

8.) No more than any other LOW PRICE retailer.

“WalMart should pay it’s people better, provide better benefits, fix whatever problems exist for women in the company, stop polluting the planet with cheap, useless crap and sell a higher grade of clothing.

I still wouldn’t shop there because, to me, WalMart represents the death of choice and diversity and is anti-urban. I also wonder what sort of creepy right-wing agenda they have going in the background.”

This sums up how you really feel and your objections to Wal-Mart.  Not that they are really bad for America, but that you are a snob.  The fact that you still wouldn’t shop there, even if they lived up to your expectations, proves this.  Also, your reference to “right wing” agenda, has me wondering if you don’t have a “Left wing” agenda, to keep the ‘poor’ down and
out of your neighborhood.  You still advocate “Having NO job is better than working for Wal-Mart”.

“Bob in"… from your personal opinions numbered 1-8 in your last post it’s clear you have never worked for Wal Mart at store level. It is elitist of YOU to presume to tell others how great Wal Mart is by skewing the facts to coincide with your personal bias. Wal Mart’s reputation is one that it’s built for itself through deceit as exposed in the numerous lawsuits it’s lost. Yet it persists in making the same mistakes over and over. Until it changes it’s “We know what’s best for you and America” attitude and acts within the law it will continue to generate vigorous negativity. Enough. Andrew Young made an unfortunate choice of words. He has stepped down from his position and Wal Mart has issued a statement condemming his comments. Show’s over folks, nothing more to see.

South Side-

It looks like Bob did a good job of answering you, so I’ll just touch on a few points he didn’t.

1. Wal-Mart’s wages and benefits are on the high end of market norms for retail. Most associates work full time. (Yes, that is still true.)

4. Why is it that when you people have no support for your position you start making up nonsense about how Wal-Mart is morally wrong to pay the market wage?

5. You’ve obviously never been to a supercenter.

6. Certainly they are after the money. I don’t expect them to get praise for that. However, it is also wrong to criticize them for offering jobs and low prices to areas with an unmet demand for both.

You ask about a comparison between Wal-Mart and Target. This site won’t offer that for a simple reason - Target is as bad or worse than Wal-Mart. This site is anti-Wal-Mart and, while it may also be anti-capitalism, showing that other retailers are a lot like smaller versions of Wal-Mart would make them look silly. Here’s a link so you can read up:

http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=13508

Very nice link Someone in USA.  I would love to see a detailed reporting comparing Walmart, Target, Sears, KMart etc. in how much they compensate their employees.  Sadly WakeupWalmart nor WalmartWatch will ever produce or link to any such report because it will point out their hyprocracy.

-Richard K

Well, attacking other ethnic groups is ignorant and won’t solve anything, first of all.  As far as Wal-Mart goes, it’s a double-edged sword.  On the one hand, people in low-income areas DO want jobs and many people have to go to the suburbs to get work.  Wal-Mart offering jobs, no matter where you live, IS better than nothing (trust me, me and a lot of other people know this), and might give someone an alternative over crime.  However, I believe that Wal-Mart, or any other business like this, would use this opportunity to exploit and pay less than they normally would (because they can) and treat their employees even worse than normal (because they can).  In fact, they might even charge more for items (this is often done in the city).  So, basically, I have mixed feelings about it, but, like I said, jobs are better than no jobs.  Randy, you are a disgusting imbecile that needs to go back to their wonderbread world and stick to making comments about things that they actually know about.  Someone, you are right, Target is a crap place to work as well, and so is Meijer’s (personal experience with both), but I don’t feel that this lets Wal-Mart off the hook (or anyone else, you can’t just say “Well, they do it too").

What’s that stinky smell when you enter a Walmart store?

WM Watcher,

“from your personal opinions numbered 1-8 in your last post it’s clear you have never worked for Wal Mart at store level. It is elitist of YOU to presume to tell others how great Wal Mart is by skewing the facts to coincide with your personal bias.”

You are right, I have never worked at Wal-Mart at any level.  But, please elaborate on all of the 1-8, what ones do you believe to be opinions and not fact?  I in no way am telling anyonr how great Wal-Mart is, where have you ever seen me say anything like that?  All I have done is present the reality and just because it doesn’t co-incide with your view, doesn’t mean I have a personal bias towards Wal-Mart.  I’ll tell you what, show me another store that offers ‘lower prices’ with better quality, pays it’s employees better and gives better benefits, and I will stop shopping at Wal-Mart.  Wal-Mart as a company, means nothing more to me than a place that I and others can make our dollars go further.  Like it or not, it does offer jobs to people who might not be working without those jobs, it does pay better than most other ‘big box’ retailers and it does want to move into areas that others won’t touch.

.in.,

“What’s that stinky smell when you enter a Walmart store?”

If you smell something ‘stinky’ when you walk into a Wal-Mart store, I suggest you smell your armpits, because it’s probably YOU.

Bob - “I’ll tell you what, show me another store that offers lower prices with better quality, pays it’s employees better and gives better benefits, and I will stop shopping at Wal-Mart.” Your answer to this is the Aldi Inc. With obvious lower prices, the same quality if not better, pays their employees even better than the union markets, and offers a much more affordable health care package, Aldi Inc. is the obvious winner here. They not only provide grocery products, but other miscellaneous retail as well, at a lower cost. All this while it’s founder, Theo Albrecht is listed as the 14th richest person in the world, with a net worth of 18 billion dollars! So needless to say, you “can” be profitable, “and” offer low prices, quality products, a living wage, and affordable health care, all at the same time! So, what’s Wal-Mart’s excuse again???

If Mr. Young wants to play spokesman for this or for that and then again if he’s paid to do that then Mr. Young should know that he has to watch what he says. I started reading some of these remarks and thought wow--really--to paraphrase ‘he’s telling the truth that all my black friends have been saying for years’. When was it that people decided that victims of discrimination either past or present couldn’t some day become discriminatory to others themselves? The reason his remark was discriminatory was not because it may not be true in some cases but because it’s not true in every case--and I would suggest the idea has been exaggerated in a lot of people’s minds. We have another one that would have it that it’s all political correctness. It makes me think that his head is empty of ideas--that he cannot really form a rationale to describe what he sees and so settles for the simplest of solutions to base his lack of coherence on. I agree that urban areas are in dire need of jobs but what is needed is jobs with meaning and jobs with a future. The trade agreements have been disastrous as one has mentioned--that same one should keep in mind though that WM wholeheartedly supports these agreements because these agreements help stock their shelves with cheaply priced goods produced by low wage workers elsewhere and that these agreements have helped to undercut wages right here in our own country which is also to the benefit of WM. To be fair one could say however that other retailers would fit into the same profile. Wouldn’t it be nice that instead of pouring (future borrowed) money into an occupied (by armed force) country if instead we un-occupied that country and took this same (future borrowed money--since now we know that at least it exists hypothetically) and invested it into our own infastructure and tried to rebuild at least somewhat an industrial/manufacturing type of economy? We could target these urban areas with financial help which might give someone the idea that he doesn’t have to sell drugs to have a future. Unfortunately putting people to work in meaningful occupations and increasing the tax base is not a priority for some who would have us out conquering other countries.

What I find particularly interesting is that I’ve read exactly the same talking points posted by Bob in and Someone in USA on dozens of blogs.  It’s almost as if they had a common source for information, inspiration, and guidance.

And while I’ll admit that posting them by the numbers may make them seem more authoratative, they’re not.

Take the whole full time/part time issue.  I can’t say what the numbers are at this moment, but I can say that a goal of the massive restructuring (to you current associates they’re known as ‘flights’) is to achieve a ratio of 65% PT, 35% FT.

Wal-Mart is the rightful target of criticism because of their size and impact on the global economy.  Wal-Mart is bigger than all it’s competitors combined and as far as the role they play in our trade deficit…

“More than 80 percent of the 6,000 factories in Wal-Mart’s worldwide database of suppliers are in China. If Wal-Mart were a separate nation, it would rank as China’s fifth-largest export market, ahead of Germany and Britain. “

This whole Andrew Young debacle is just another instance where the pencilnecks in Bentonville spend money to gloss over problems rather than dealing with them. 

You have to wonder how long the Waltons will allow Lee Scott to continue shooting himself in the foot.

The big question is whether Wal-Mart “helps” a community as a whole, or “hurts” a community as a whole. Yes, Wal-Mart does offer cheap products and brings jobs into a community. But, these two benifits come at a very large price to a community. In order for Wal-Mart to offer cheap products, they utilize outsourced products. These same outsourced products, were once manufactured here in the U.S., and ultimately these American jobs were lost. The remaining manufacturing jobs here in the U.S., are in constant jeapordy of being sent overseas as well. All this thanks to lax trade agreements and low cost tariffs that ultimately encourage large corporations to participate in this type of activity. Once these manufacturing jobs are gone, then those same employees are left with jobs like those at Wal-Mart, in which in return, offer substandard wages and health care. When the only jobs in a community offer these types of wages/health care, then the people working these jobs sink below the poverty line. And then once the poverty level goes up in a community, then so does the crime rate. When you support business’s such as Wal-Mart, then you support the same business practice that is the main culprit of job loss in America. Wal-Mart does not create jobs, they take jobs. The only people clearly benifiting from Wal-Mart, is the top shareholders, and “NOT” the community as a whole.

There was an interesting article in the National Post. It talked about Walmart gearing up to compete with Loblaw Company Limited in Canada. It said in the article that other than feature products, the prices down the aisles at Walmart were not any cheaper. Prices are even cheaper at hard discounter such as No Frills, Food Basics and Price Chopper.
Walmart can not compete with these stores on price.

Power To The People,

““I’ll tell you what, show me another store that offers lower prices with better quality, pays it’s employees better and gives better benefits, and I will stop shopping at Wal-Mart.” Your answer to this is the Aldi Inc.”

Guess what, I already shop there and although their products are mainly in house brands, I have still to find anything that I didn’t like.  The only problem I have there, is that they only have 4 or 5 employees per store and sometimes the lines can be very long.

Ken V,

“What I find particularly interesting is that I’ve read exactly the same talking points posted by Bob in and Someone in USA on dozens of blogs.  It’s almost as if they had a common source for information, inspiration, and guidance.”

Isn’t it funny, but when you state facts instead of emotional pleas, those facts tend to remain the same?  And, you are right, we do have a common source of information, it’s called reality.  Our inspiration comes from wanting to see our system of the Free Market survive and our guidance comes from history.

Alex,

“Walmart can not compete with these stores on price.”

I thought that Wal-Mart makes it impossible for anyone to compete with them, you have just stated that it is possible to compete and if they can do it, then so can others, if they try hard enough.

“.... I would love to see a detailed reporting comparing Walmart, Target, Sears, KMart etc. in how much they compensate their employees....”

-Richard K

------------------------------------
Costco vs. Wal-Mart is available here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/17/business/yourmoney/17costco.html

A Businessweek story:
http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/oct2005/tc2005107_6620.htm

1.) Wal-Mart pays better wages then most ‘big box retailers and gives better benefits then they do.  A lot of people, expecially teenagers and college students, prefer “Part Time”.

Who would know this, much less take the time to post a comment, besides a corporate flunky?

Your Kool-Aid is getting warm. Drink up.

“Our inspiration comes from wanting to see our system of the Free Market survive and our guidance comes from history.”

Free Market, huh?  Are you advocating doing away with government subsistence to Wal-Mart employees? Or the government paying for Bentonville’s driveway? Or the scores of other ways Wal-Mart takes advantage of the government to increase profits?

History, you say?  Well, how about when the auto industry led the U.S economy to unparalleled prosperity?  Now that retail/service is the big dog, all we get is a race to the bottom led by Wal-Mart.

Some of you may not know what I’m implying in my earlier post.  This is from the New York Times back in March of this year:

Wal-Mart Enlists Bloggers In P.R. Campaign

“Under assault as never before, Wal-Mart is increasingly looking beyond the mainstream media and working directly with bloggers, feeding them exclusive nuggets of news, suggesting topics for postings and even inviting them to visit its corporate headquarters.”

How’s your ‘nuggets’, Bob & Someone?  :o)

Bravo, Ken!

I re-state my question. What on Earth would compel an average citizen, an average WalMart shopper, to come to this web site and speak on behalf of the company? Not reasoned discourse, but mewling statements like:

“Wal-Mart pays better wages then most ‘big box retailers and gives better benefits then they do.  A lot of people, expecially teenagers and college students, prefer “Part Time”.

There are a million ways to break down that statement. IF WalMart paid more and offered better benefits, it could defuse all of the attack against it by taking out ads that showed its pay and benefits package.

Trying to put a spin on WalMart hiring practices by saying there are lots of people who prefer part-time, “expecially” teens and students, doesn’t quite blur the fact that the company doesn’t pay enough for an adult to support herself and her family.

This is WalMart’s problem. Instead of spreading their wealth amongst employees, they keep a roster of spin meisters and goodwill embassadors. They’ve got it all backwards. JUST PAY YOUR PEOPLE! Whatever they paid Andrew Young was money that should have gone to employees.

SOUTH SIDE,

I’ll try again to answer you, but, I won’t call you names like you did to me and most little children do.

1.) “IF THAT IS TRUE, THEN WHY DID CHICAGO ENACT AN ORDINANCE TO FORCE WM TO PAY HIGHER WAGES?”

Did you happen to notice that the ordinance only applies to stores over a certain square footage?  Therefore, ALL smaller stores can keep on paying lower wages.  Also, did you notice that the Mayor was against the ordinance?

2.) MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT TIME CARDS GET FORGED AND PEOPLE ARE CHEATED OUT OF THEIR OVERTIME WAGES. THEY NOT ONLY TRY TO MINIMIZE OVERTIME, THERE IS A LEGACY OF BULLYING AND INTIMIDATION AT WM. “

If this is true, then it needs to be settled with the Dept. of Labor, Wage and Hour Division, as this is a violation of the law.  But, it has to be PROVED that this is a company policy.

3.) “SPOKESMEN ARE A DIME A DOZEN. JUST ASK ANDY YOUNG. NOT IS A LIFE POSITION TO DO WHAT IS NECESS....DO YOU HEAR YOURSELF? YOU ARE TYPICAL OF THE HATEFUL, ANTI-WOMAN STANDPOINT OF WM. YOU ARE SAYING THAT BECAUSE OF THEIR GENDER THEY CANNOT RISE TO TOP POSITIONS. YOU ARE A PATHETIC CORPORATE HACK FREAK. MAY I POINT OUT THAT PEPSI JUST NAMED A WOMAN AS CEO.”

There are women in higher positions at Wal-Mart, not just spokespersons, only you refuse to see them, because you are mad that the CEO is not a woman.  I did not say that women because of their GENDER cannot rise to top positions, I said that because of their situations in life, most women cannot TAKE positions that require travel, long hours, etc. (children for 1 reason).

4.) “THE LARGEST COMPANY IN THE WORLD HAS AN OBLIGATION TO PUT FORTH HIGH ETHICAL AND MORAL STANDARDS. WHERE DO YOU WORK (IF NOT FOR WM)? YOU’RE SAYING YOU HAVE SETTLED FOR A MINIMUM WAGE? WHAT A HACK YOU ARE.”

Why do they have an obligation to have higher standards than anyone else?  Why shouldn’t ALL retailers be set to the same standards?

5.) “I’M NOT AN ELITIST, YOU CORPORATE HACK. I JUST LIKE TO EAT FOOD THAT ISN’T PROCESSED TO DEATH. LESS SALT, LESS SUGAR, FEWER PRESERVATIVES, MORE CHOICE. THAT’S NOT ELITIST, YOU CLOD, THAT’S HOW PEOPLE LIVED FOR CENTURIES.  THE WHOLE IDEA IS TO KEEP PRICES LOW? WHAT IF AT LEAST PART OF THE IDEA WAS TO PRESERVE THE ECOLOGY? OR ALLOW PEOPLE TO RISE OUT OF POVERTY?”

Why is what you like to eat, the standard to be set?  How much CHOICE do you need?  Aren’t they going into Organics?How does selling processed food ruin the ecology?  Don’t LOW PRICE help people rise out of poverty, by giving them more for their money?

6.) “I HAVE NO AGENDA, YOU FREAKING DOLT. I’M PRO-UNION TO THE EXTENT THAT THEY HELP PEOPLE NOT GET RIPPED OFF FOR THEIR OVERTIME, BENEFITS AND PROMOTIONS. WHEN THEY GET FAT LAZY AND INEFFICIENT, I’M UJP THEIR BUTTS JUST LIKE AI AM UP WM’S. WHERE ARE THE OTHER STORES? DO YOU WANT TO HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT REDLINING, RACISM AND THE ROLE OF GOVERNMENT IN DESTROYING BLACK COMMUNITIES?”

You say that you have no agenda, then go on explaining what your agenda is!!  How has Wal-Mart destroyed Black Communities, when they aren’t even there yet?

7.) “SO, YOU’RE SAYING YOU HAPPILY WEAR WRANGLER JEANS? GOOD FOR YOU.”

Yes, I wear Wrangler jeans. They are just as good as the $80.00 jeans you buy, besides, I could get 7 pair for the price you pay for 1.  Buying them allows for extra money for things like groceries.  You seem to have that “I’m too good to wear those” attitude, that’s elitist.

8.) “THEY DON’T POLLUTE ANY LESS EITHER. BIGGEST COMPANY, BIGGER RESPONSIBILITY, STUPID.”

Do you really think a union would get them to polute less?  If they are so bad, why isn’t the EPA handling it?

“YES THAT DOES SUM IT UP, YOU IDIOT. YOU MAY HAVE DEDUCED THAT FROM WHERE I SAID, “TO SUM UP.” YEAH, DEATH OF CHOICE AND DIVERSITY AND ANTI-URBAN. THAT’S HOW I FEEL. GOT A PROBLEM WITH THAT? TOUGH.”

How would Wal-Mart moving into urban areas cause the death of choice and diversity?  What choice and deversity do they have NOW?

“IT’S MY MONEY. I’LL SHOP WHEREVER I DAMN WELL PLEASE. “

You are right, IT IS YOUR MONEY and you can spend it any way and anywhere you wish.  But also remember, Wal-Mart’s money is THEIR MONEY, where do you get off thinking YOU can tell THEM how to spend it?

Ken V,

“History, you say?  Well, how about when the auto industry led the U.S economy to unparalleled prosperity?  Now that retail/service is the big dog, all we get is a race to the bottom led by Wal-Mart.”

Yes, the auto industry led us to prosperity, but their high wages also led to the rest of the country having to have 2 jobs to survive.  Now, how much prosperity is the auto companies having when they are all filing for banruptsy, and people are being let go 20 to 30 thousand at a time?

Did you get your daily union ‘nuggets’ today?

South Side-

IF THAT IS TRUE, THEN WHY DID CHICAGO ENACT AN ORDINANCE TO FORCE WM TO PAY HIGHER WAGES?

What kind of argument is that? It demonstrates a clear lack of understanding of market economics and sheer ignorance of reported facts. According to the Illinois Retail Merchants Association, about 40 companies would be affected by the law. Target, Lowes, and others have been outspoken in their opposition as well. How, then, do you conclude from the passage of that bill that Wal-Mart’s compensation is not at the high end for retail workers?

MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT TIME CARDS GET FORGED AND PEOPLE ARE CHEATED OUT OF THEIR OVERTIME WAGES. THEY NOT ONLY TRY TO MINIMIZE OVERTIME, THERE IS A LEGACY OF BULLYING AND INTIMIDATION AT WM.

Your understanding! That’s precisely the problem. You don’t seem to understand much of anything. You look at all of these lawsuits, however frivolous or unprovable the claims, and say, “Wal-Mart doesn’t pay overtime.” It’s company policy to pay overtime, and I have not personally worked in a store that failed to abide by these rules (If it was a true policy, all stores would follow it, right?). Did some bad managers break the rules? Probably, but unfortunately that will happen. Is there proof that Bentonville directed them to? Not likely. Did corporate know? I can’t say, but it seems the courts thought so. Were all those who claim to have been cheated really screwed out of overtime? Not a chance. Most are probably just hoping to capitalize on the misfortune of the few. Suits like these should not be given class action status. They are not systemic beyond individual stores, and there is no evidence that they are.

YOU ARE TYPICAL OF THE HATEFUL, ANTI-WOMAN STANDPOINT OF WM. YOU ARE SAYING THAT BECAUSE OF THEIR GENDER THEY CANNOT RISE TO TOP POSITIONS.

I believe that Bob is saying that most of the women who are hourlies at Wal-Mart are not in a position to put in the hours required of managers. It is a thankless job and the schedules are inflexible. I don’t have the numbers handy, but for all the talk of single mothers on this site, I would think you guys should understand where Bob is coming from. Also, you guys do nothing but bitch about a certain female executive who have a penchant for writing memos. Shouldn’t you be happy they let a woman in?

DON’T BE AN IDIOT. HOW MUCH HIGHER COULD PROFITS BE IF THERE WERE NO ENVIRONMENTAL STANDARDS? HOW ABOUT WE ELIMINATE CHILD LABOR LAWS?

We’re talking about wages, not overturning existing workplace laws.

THE LARGEST COMPANY IN THE WORLD HAS AN OBLIGATION TO PUT FORTH HIGH ETHICAL AND MORAL STANDARDS.

Prove it and I’ll change my stance. They are obligated to maximize profots while observing the law. Nothing more.

YOU’RE SAYING YOU HAVE SETTLED FOR A MINIMUM WAGE?

No, he’s saying no one should settle. Also, Wal-Mart pays more than minimum wage.

ALLOW PEOPLE TO RISE OUT OF POVERTY?

If one adheres to the principle of personal responsibility, this is precisely what will happen with a Wal-Mart job. If not...well, Wal-Mart is not obligated to compensate people for making mistakes.

SO, YOU’RE SAYING YOU HAPPILY WEAR WRANGLER JEANS? GOOD FOR YOU.

I don’t see the problem with the clothes. Like Bob, I would rather dress for a week than a day for the same amount of money as long as they look decent, last long enough, and feel comfortable. Admittedly, there are some clothes I do not buy at Wal-Mart, but they are where I purchase most of my casual clothing.

IT’S MY MONEY. I’LL SHOP WHEREVER I DAMN WELL PLEASE.

No one’s stopping you. It is certainly your right. However, something about the tone of this statement is unsettling. Your attitude that you have the right to do whatever you want and shouldn’t have to live with the consequences is exactly why the country is going down the tubes.

Ken-

I’ve been meaning to ask: What do you do? On Planet Feedback they always accused you of being a small business owner who hated Wal-Mart. Is that so? Maybe you hate Wal-Mart because you couldn’t compete against them? That would explain how you find so much time to criticize the company.

P.S. Did you get that picture framed?

I don’t know about Chicago or other areas, but in the Atlanta area, the neighborhoods mentioned don’t have Walmarts, they have huge empty shopping centers where Walmart USED to be and moved out to the more suburban areas.  Has anybody actually SEEN Walmart open a store in urban depressed areas?

Bob, dear, sweat simple-minded Bob -

I’ll try to spare your feeling and only call you a clod and a corporate hack once at the top of this reply.

((2.) MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT TIME CARDS GET FORGED AND PEOPLE ARE CHEATED OUT OF THEIR OVERTIME WAGES.
If this is true, then it needs to be settled with the Dept. of Labor, Wage and Hour Division, as this is a violation of the law.  But, it has to be PROVED that this is a company policy.))

So you need to see it written in a pamphlet somewhere before you’d consider the fact that there is a pattern of deception and fraud? And you point to the Dept. of Labor, Wage and Hour Division. You’ve just outed yourself again as a corporate hack. O.K. I lied...I may call you more names as this post continues.

((3.) “SPOKESMEN ARE A DIME A DOZEN. JUST ASK ANDY YOUNG. NOT IS A LIFE POSITION TO DO WHAT IS NECESS....DO YOU HEAR YOURSELF?

There are women in higher positions at Wal-Mart, not just spokespersons, only you refuse to see them, because you are mad that the CEO is not a woman.  I did not say that women because of their GENDER cannot rise to top positions, I said that because of their situations in life, most women cannot TAKE positions that require travel, long hours, etc. (children for 1 reason).))

Wow, you really loooooove WalMart. And you seem to know an awful lot about its inner workings. Hmmmmm. You said, “that because of their situations in life, most women cannot TAKE positions that require travel, long hours, etc.” That is a sexist comment.

((4.) “THE LARGEST COMPANY IN THE WORLD HAS AN OBLIGATION TO PUT FORTH HIGH ETHICAL AND MORAL STANDARDS.

Why do they have an obligation to have higher standards than anyone else?  Why shouldn’t ALL retailers be set to the same standards?))

The answer is in the question, stupid. America consumes a disproportionate amount of global resources. America, as THE LARGEST ECONOMY IN THE WORLD, has a greater responsibility to use resources wisely. If Belgium were to increase its use of oil 100 times over, no one would notice. If America would reduce its consumption of oil by one percent, the effect would be dramatic. Similarly, If THE LARGEST COMPANY IN THE WORLD played a greater role in reducing waste and pollution, the effect would be equally dramatic.

((5.) “I’M NOT AN ELITIST, YOU CORPORATE HACK. I JUST LIKE TO EAT FOOD THAT ISN’T PROCESSED TO DEATH. LESS SALT, LESS SUGAR, FEWER PRESERVATIVES, MORE CHOICE. THE WHOLE IDEA IS TO KEEP PRICES LOW? WHAT IF AT LEAST PART OF THE IDEA WAS TO PRESERVE THE ECOLOGY? OR ALLOW PEOPLE TO RISE OUT OF POVERTY?”

Why is what you like to eat, the standard to be set?  How much CHOICE do you need?  Aren’t they going into Organics?How does selling processed food ruin the ecology?  Don’t LOW PRICE help people rise out of poverty, by giving them more for their money?))

...sigh. Over-processed food is bad for you. Too much salt and sugar is bad for you. I really admire your little grammatical errors. “Don’t low price”...that very cute. A living wage helps people rise out of poverty. Is all of this news to you?

((6.) “I HAVE NO AGENDA, YOU FREAKING DOLT. I’M PRO-UNION TO THE EXTENT THAT THEY HELP PEOPLE NOT GET RIPPED OFF FOR THEIR OVERTIME, BENEFITS AND PROMOTIONS.
You say that you have no agenda, then go on explaining what your agenda is!!  How has Wal-Mart destroyed Black Communities, when they aren’t even there yet?))

....double sigh. There is a difference between having an opinion and having an agenda. What is your reading comprehension level? Not too high, methinks. I didn’t say WalMart destroyed Black communities. Racism, redlining, riots, bad schools.

Dear Someone -

“Bob” did a horrible job of replying to my points. (See my latest responses above.)

((1. Wal-Mart’s wages and benefits are on the high end of market norms for retail. Most associates work full time.))

I don’t believe “most” of the associates work full-time, but I’ll take your word for it for now.  Are the wages and bennies on the high end or at the high end? The biggest employer should be able to leverage economies of scale to pay a penny more than the next guy. Get better workers, reduce turnover and employee theft, no?

((4. Why is it that when you people have no support for your position you start making up nonsense about how Wal-Mart is morally wrong to pay the market wage?))

Sorry for blending too many concepts in there. But, OK, let’s take morality out of the equation. What I would like to see is the largest company in the world using its economic power to lift its employees up. To hell with the stock market. How many shares does the average person hold? I’m not going to get rich buying and holding WalMart stock. It’s possible to be too focused on price. What’s the turnover rate at a typical WalMart?

((5. You’ve obviously never been to a supercenter.))

Sure I have.  But I spent as little time there as possible.

((6. Certainly they are after the money. I don’t expect them to get praise for that. However, it is also wrong to criticize them for offering jobs and low prices to areas with an unmet demand for both.))

As I mentioned to your friend “Bob,” I would PREFER if blighted neighborhoods could see organic growth...walkable streetscapes rather than Supercenters. That is my bias, in favor of more shops and smaller shops. I think it’s absurd, in a city like Chicago, to have to drive to get a quart of milk. The fact that Black nabes in Chicago are so underserved is a shame. I’m not blaming WalMart for that or for exploiting the void in the market. I am, however, lamenting that that is the state of afffairs in those neighborhoods.

((You ask about a comparison between Wal-Mart and Target. This site won’t offer that for a simple reason - Target is as bad or worse than Wal-Mart. This site is anti-Wal-Mart and, while it may also be anti-capitalism, showing that other retailers are a lot like smaller versions of Wal-Mart would make them look silly. Here’s a link so you can read up:

http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=13508))

Yeah, cool. I have too look deeper into that site to osee what it’s about, but generally I can believe that WM and Target are pretty similar. WalMart suffers because it is the biggest and because it seems to be in denial...papering over its problems rather than addressing them.

Some people, myself included, may be upset that WalMart represents the intrusion of rural America into urban Chicago. (The same way rural America resists the intrusion of urban wyas of life.)

Hey, Someone!

I like this little slip of yours, in talking about wages and bennies.

“Target is as bad or worse than Wal-Mart.”

Ouch! So you’re admitting WalMart does a bad job at wages and benefits? Maybe some cities should be Target cities and others WlaMart cities. You know, like National League/American League.

South Side here. I gotta go outside and play now, but before I do I want to ask “Bob” and “Someone” to fess up about who they really are. I’ll go first.

I live on the South Side of Chicago. I logged on because of the Andy Young flap and I am generally against WalMart because I don;t think it fits the character of the city. But I recognize that I don’t speak for everyone in Chicago.

So, boys, what’s your stake in this? Honestly, you both come of as WalMart flaks. Why do you care so deepley what people think about WalMart?

Gotta go!

Wal-Mart’s turnover rate isn’t publicized anymore but it usually runs in the 40% range.  Before Bush had time to manipulate the economy and jobs were plentiful, Wal-Mart’s rate hit a high of 76% companywide.  (2001 or ‘02?) To this day some stores experience a turnover rate in excess of 300%.  (And you wonder why it’s difficult to find an associate that knows what they’re doing.)

So, Someone, you know me from PFB and WWS. I’ve been actively anti Wal-Mart for almost 5 years and I post on blogs and boards all over the internet and I’m ALWAYS* Ken V.  I want Wal-Mart to know who I am!

There are three types of people in regard to Wal-Mart. 

First are those that live in La-La Land and think it’s all smiley faces and happy blue vests.

Second, there are those that have seen the Beast. Sooner or later they come to realize that Wal-Mart is all about greed and the Beast cannot be fed.

And finally there are those that have seen the Beast but for whatever reason (usually monetary) they choose to side with GREED.

I count Andrew Young one of the latter while I fall into category 2.

*except on MSN Groups where I’m KenVx

Sorry for the double post but I should add, you may have noticed many sources of anti Wal-mart information have disappeared lately.  While it’s impossible to say for sure that it’s part of Bentonville’s “fighting back” against ctitics, they have always tried to supress negative publicity.

Here is one of the most comprehensive lists of sources for anti Wal-Mart data on the web:

http://groups.msn.com/ABUSEDBYWALMART/links.msnw

I love Walmart. Walmart brings stuff cheap to my home. The less I spend, the more in my pot. Walmarts not in business to do anything but what they do best. Cheapest prices possible. They don’t need to be concerned with employee’s problems and the countries welfare. The workers and the political socialist can take care of themselves without me supporting them. Walmart needs to turn a profit. Thats it. They do it well.

Rick - It’s attitudes like yours that keep the unions/government knocking at Wal-Mart’s door!!! The harder the attitude, the harder the knock!!!

“They don’t need to be concerned with employee’s problems and the countries welfare. The workers and the political socialist can take care of themselves without me supporting them.”

Rick -

I have to believe you are doing a comedy routine. You can’t possibly be tha cynical, can you? Jesus, man, what kind of dog eat dog world do you live in.

Two words of advice:

Seek therapy

It seems like there is a critical mass approaching...more and more of this is making it in the mainstream media.  And I just heard about a new clothing company that is starting to turn the Wal Mart business model on its head.  The more of these kinds of companies that work within the capitalist system to change it, the harder it will be for Wal Mart to continue to operate this way.  Check out Fair Indigo at www.fairindigo.com .

It seems like there is a critical mass approaching...more and more of this is making it in the mainstream media.  And I just heard about a new clothing company that is starting to turn the Wal Mart business model on its head.  The more of these kinds of companies that work within the capitalist system to change it, the harder it will be for Wal Mart to continue to operate this way.  Check out Fair Indigo at www.fairindigo.com .

South Side,

I tried to read your posts and make some sense out of them, but either you were high when you wrote them, or you have a lot of opinions and think they are FACTS.

Somehow you think that the only one who would know about the Department of Labor, Wage and Hour Division, are corporate people (what you call - Hacks).  Maybe if more of those people who got their cards changed, knew about it, they could have stopped it.  I know about it, because the same thing happened to me at a job, I complained to the Dept. of Labor - Wage and Hour Div. and ended up getting backpay.

It is hard to follow your idiotic diatribe, because you start talking about one thing and end up on something else.

You wonder about how I know about woman executives at Wal-Mart, as if the only one who could know such things MUST be in the corporation itself.  Maybe if you checked on things before you spouted out idiotic garbage, you would know things too.  As for my so called sexist remarks, I was only repeating what women on this site have said in the past about not wanting to go into management because of their families.

You talk a lot about what you PREFER and what your OPINIONS are, but, that is the world of your mind, some of us live here in the real world.  Wishing for small shops to open, isn’t going to make it happen, mainly because those small shops have a tendency of being robbed a lot.

I realize that you would like to get off of welfare and move on up to the big time, but, if you keep on trying to act like a “middle class” wannabe.

You ask what I do and why I care so much about Wal-Mart.  Well here goes, for the 20th time.  I am a retired blue-collar worker, don;t work at Wal-Mart, never have.  I don’t care so much about Wal-Mart as I care about our country and the Free Market System, which has served us so well in the past.  I live on a fixed income from my 401K, so I enjoy the low prices at Wal-Mart, but, whenever I can find a better bargain on something, I’ll get it somewhere else.  I do most of my grocery shopping at Aldi’s.

Now, fess up yourself, what do you do for a living and why do you really hate Wal-Mart so much?  Is it because you applied for a job and they said you weren’t qualified?

Ted,

“And I just heard about a new clothing company that is starting to turn the Wal Mart business model on its head.  The more of these kinds of companies that work within the capitalist system to change it, the harder it will be for Wal Mart to continue to operate this way.”

Guess what, that is part of “the market taking care of itself” Thanks for showing us that it is still working as it should.

Dear sweet Bob

I don’t hate WalMart. Hate is an immature emotion. If you had the reading comprehension to make sense of my posts, you’d see that they are fairly reasoned and rather honest. I’m sorry that I am not a bitter old man like you and that I still harbor hopes and ideals for my community. I live in Chicago, a city with many vibrant economic corridors. Chicago is experiencing a sort of revival and I would hope and PREFER that that revival would continue to the most blighted neighborhoods.

Small shops tend to get robbed a lot? Now who is living in his own mind? What paranoid fantasy is playing in your head? Have you been to the North Side of Chicago? Do you know anything about Chicago?

Wishing for small shops to return certainly isn’t enough to bring them back. But tax incentives, training seminars....that’s what I want. I don’t want a Supercenter...I want a corridor.

I feel sorry for you that you have no hopes or dreams or desires...that you are draining down your 401K. So, you’re retired and the most interesting thing you can find to do is make posts on an anti-WM website? What a tremendous lack of imagination! Congratulations!

Lastly, is English your first language? Your grammar sucks.

“Bob”

here is why you come of sounding like a CORPORATE HACK!

You like WalMart.
You already shop at WalMart.
You have a WalMart in your community.

Why the freak do you care whether or not the company builds stores in Chicago!?!?!?!

Do you see my point, or is this too convoluted for you? What sane person would spend time on this web site if he was not directly impacted by WalMart’s future growth plans?

See, all of your denials aside, that’s how we all know you are a corporate hack.

Stupid.

Dear Boob -

I’ll give you fifty American dollars if you can explain what this sentence is supposed to mean.

“I realize that you would like to get off of welfare and move on up to the big time, but, if you keep on trying to act like a “middle class” wannabe.”

If Walmart wants to set up shop, it should be able to anywhere it wants. This is business. Business is there to profit.  If it doesn’t then some other company will. That is the only thing that is important.

One would think you were a man in charge, Rick in Bentonville, according to John Kennth Galbraith’s definition:

“Today, the signature of modern American capitalism is neither benign competition, nor class struggle, nor an inclusive middle class utopia. Instead, predation has become the dominant feature - a system wherein the rich have come to feast on decaying systems built for the middle class....For in a predatory regime, nothing is done for public reasons. Indeed, the men in charge do not even recognize that ‘public purposes’ exist.”

South Side,

First, I am not a bitter old man.  Next, I am not fraining down my 401K, it is worth more today than it was when I retired, at60 I might add.  Last week, I made over $5,000.00, how much did you make?

Yes, I have been to the North side of Chicago, I was born and raised in Kenosha, Wisconsin and visited Chicago many times.

“So, you’re retired and the most interesting thing you can find to do is make posts on an anti-WM website? What a tremendous lack of imagination! Congratulations!”

I’m retired, have some time on my hands (I don’t want to work all day long and I like to debate, what’s your excuse and what about your imagination?

Really, I don’t care whether Wal-Mart builds stores in Chicago, I only care about this attack on Capitolism, that sets it’s sites only on certain businesses.  Laws should apply to ALL, not just some.  Then, these idiotic ideas seem to gain support and move across the country, until they are shot down in the courts.

Keep your Fifty Dollars, you probably need it more than I do.  Use it to take some lessons in CIVILITY!!

I agree with Bob. Capitalism is what is important. It is a case of the survival of the strongest. Workers are a cost to the business, just like hydro, water, tax, supplies. If you could find a cheaper source for any of these then you would replace them right? Of course you would. Same with the employee’s. If you can get cheaper help then all the better. Business is only responsible for there last pay check.  Retail business has no obligation to its associates because they are a dime a dozen. They owe them or society nothing except the business they provide.

Wal-mart is wasting so much money trying to improve it’s image with such groups as Working Families for Wal-mart. A lot of their problems will go away if they would use that PR money and raise their workers wages. I don’t mean a few percent. I mean a good, decent wage increase. Pay their workers a decent living wage and offer them affordable, decent healthcare coveage so their workers don’t have to turn their states to help them get by, and Mr and Mrs taxpayer doesn’t have to pay for this. For God sakes Wal-mart are you listening?

Walmart does not have to listen. They can pay as low as they want as long as they still get the positions filled. Why pay more?

David Maugans, why are two major US unions funding all of the Anti-WalMart PR? Is WalMart required to just shut up and take it? Or do only those who agree with you get to speak out regarding their cause?  In response to whoever said they could just cut corporate perks.. WalMart really doesn’t do corporate perks. They are the worst company to use as an example of corporate excess in perks. I get a larger per diem for travel than Lee Scott and I’m a nobody. The CEO works out of an office that looks like some local yokel hardware store. Every exec is required to share a budget hotel room for all travel. Even the CEO. Private jets are expensive, but in many cases the costs are more than made up in time savings for managers who need to cover territory fast and often. I have a friend who is a manager for a large franchise business who uses a corporate jet because they figured up commercial flight costs and wait/checkin times and it actually saves them money for him and his team to use a private jet. And by the way, for all you “just because one person did it doesn’t mean anyone else can do it!!” people… He started as a ....CASHIER at that company.

Your right mags. People should not be having peeks from the shareholders money. It is good that Walmart has a modest home office and that they share rooms. However more can be done. The company pays too much to executives and probably to specialists, directors, store managers and other support people. They salaries should be cut back. This is the shareholders money.

South Side-

All you need to know about me can be found here:
http://someoneinusa.blogspot.com/2006/08/blogging-for-wal-mart.html
If you still want more, you could try searching this blog’s archives. You can probably find some details about my age, education, and work history in my old posts.

I see no need to answer to your posts, and I would encourage Bob to ignore you as well. It is simply unbelievable that you were able to fill so much space with nothing but your ignorant opinions and childish insults (and you say Bob needs to get a life?). No amount of facts will ever help lead you out of the socialist fantasy world you inhabit, so I’m not going to bother trying. Besides, I’ve answered arguments like yours many times before on a plethora of websites. It shouldn’t be hard to find them.

Ken-

I am . . . quite certain . . . that Wal-Mart knows about you, but I doubt they see you as a threat. You never explained exactly why you are so completely anti-Wal-Mart. Most sensible critics at least acknowledge that they have some good points. You, on the other hand, seem to absolutely hate them and I’d like to know why.

Ted-

That’s a nice advertisement. However, I disagree with your conclusion.

Rick-

I know you are being sarcastic and I think you exaggerate the position a little too much, but I must at least congratulate you on identifying the purpose of a business.
_________________________________________
Anyway, I’m tired of repeating myself over and over again, so I think its about time I took a complete break from posting. See you all later.

Someone in USA,

I know what you mean about how tiring it can get to explain things over and over and get onesided responses in return.  It’s like trying to tell a person what the picture on a jigsaw puzzle and they tell you that you are wrong, because they looked a one piece and think it is something else.  Some of them are misguided, while others are just out there in outer space.  They don’t seem to know things, like they think it is ‘bad’, when in reality, those people are probably moving up to bigger and better things.  They can’t see that to pay people more than their job is worth, stiffles people from living up to their full potential.  They don’t see that people ‘need’ to be motivated, otherwise, their “spirit” dies.  They think it is just better to float through life, taking whatever they can get and not giving much in return.  There is so much they can’t see, because they refuse to look at the picture.  What’s that old saying, “None are so blind as those who refuse to see”.  They can’t even get the fact that higher wages lead to higher prices, that lead to importing products that are lower priced, which leads U.S. companies to to outsource jobs, they think it is just because Wal-Mart tells them to outsource.

I understand your frustration, it’s like trying to tell a teenager that ‘drugs’ are bad for them.  But, keep in touch, we need your wisdom in this sea of ignorance.  Seems we already lost Nick, haven’t seen a post from him in awhile.

Someone in USA,

“They don’t seem to know things, like they think it is ‘bad’,”

Sorry, that sentence should read. “They don’t seem to know things, like “Turnover”, they think it is ‘bad’,”

It’s ok to outsource jobs. If a company can get it cheaper and still take on the costs of logistics, then they have the right to import. Business does not owe a thing to this country, if this country can’t compete with other labor forces. If cost cuts can happen, make them happen. Business is global now. The best price around the world is the same as the best price at a Walmart store. No matter what it takes and where ever it takes it.

Hey Rick.....how much would it cost to “outsource” you?
It would be worth it.

Rick - It’s “immoral” right wing agendas like yours, that will ultimatley destroy the Republican party!!! Get your Bible back out and get to reading buddy!!!

I can completely understand where Ambassador Young’s feeling and comments arise from because I am from the same neighborhood.  We live in an area in Atlanta, Ga, that is known for Black wealth and influence. A neighborhood where million dollar homes are snapped up as quickly as they are built and yet we cannot get major retailers into our mall because it is in a Black neighborhood.  It is only within the last 10 years that major competeing grocery stores have opened and chain restaurants (ie Applebees) in the last 5 years.  We still have the stores that he complained about because the owners (then whites) would not sell to Blacks.  Young was crucified in our neighborhood because at the time he took the position with WalMart, we were in a battle to keep them out of our upscale neighborhood.  I’m not defending him just giving insight into his world.  Let me share another experience.  I work for the Atlanta Police Dept. and my assignment is to the Police Athletic League (PAL).  My job is in the Bankhead Road area (very low income).  One day I needed gas and couldn’t wait until I was on my side of town (even gas cost more in the hood) and by the way yes the Chevron station was dirty and delapidated.  Just as I paid for my gas one of the two Middle Eastern guys working behind the bullet proof glass locked the doors remotely and stopped one of the young men from exiting.  He was accusing the guy of shoplifting a beer (he was under 21) but said that he would not call the police if the young men gave him all the money in their pockets.  He like me noticed that one fellow pulled out a roll of money to pay
for the items that he did purchase. But how do you justify felony extortion over a $5.00 beer?  Rev., Ambassador and former Atlanta Mayor Andrew J. Young was only speaking about what Blacks experience daily.  He said things talking to a “Black Newspaper” that he wouldn’t have said in normal press because he got “comfortable”.  I have a Super WalMart 15 minutes away but I do not want them in my neighborhood.  In GA we have empty WalMarts everywhere from them moving 1 block to bulid an even larger store leaving a big empty box in the neighborhood.  I’ll take Habib over a big empty box any day.

“In GA we have empty WalMarts everywhere from them moving 1 block to bulid an even larger store leaving a big empty box in the neighborhood.”

Georgia is second only to Texas in the number of “dark stores”.  These figures are from last year but it hasn’t changed much since then.

* A total of 41 states have dead Wal-Mart stores.
* The top eleven states with dead stores are:
Texas, 38
Georgia, 28
Tennessee, 20
Arkansas, 19
North Carolina, 17
Louisiana, 16
Oklahoma, 14
Missouri, 14
Mississippi, 13
Michigan, 12
Alabama, 12

Don’t forget the murdered dark store in Jonquiere Quebec.
Why is it dead? Because Canadian law and workers legal rights to union activity are not respected by Walmart corporation.

Hey, Torrey. Move into a neighborhood without million $ homes that are snapped up as soon as they go on the market. They wouldn’t take habib over your supercenter. Habib charges 5.50$ for a gallon of milk and you get a choice of one kind and the expiration date is tomorrow. In fact, go talk to people who are shopping with Habib now and tell them that you want to keep WalMart from coming in and bringing a couple hundred jobs, cheap groceries, more choices and they can walk to it? They will beat you like you stole something, son.

Just another elitist prick who never had to walk to the coe’nah to get bread.

Torrey in Atlanta & Ken V,

I’ll say it again, like I’ve said before, instead of trying to destroy Wal-Mart through pressure, why doesn’t the unions or someone else buy up those “dark stores” and start retail businesses that are in direct competition with Wal-Mart?

Think about it, they could create a business that fits all their goals.  Right now, they are just throwing money at the wind, funding these sites and running around the counrty trying to gain support and are getting NO return on investment from it.  Why not use that money more wisely and invest it in a business model that they seem to believe will work.  They say that they are not in the business of running a business and that is why they won’t do it.  I say, why don’t YOU CHANGE?  You are asking Wal-Mart to change, why won’t you, if you think it can be done?

If the unions would band together to use this money to buy up those stores, think about what ‘good’ they could do by createing an income flow from a source other than their members pockets.  Also, they could put into place the ideas that they are asking of Wal-Mart and if they are a ‘good’ way to go, imagine the success they could have and the impact they could make in not only changing Wal-Mart, but showing the people what the unions can do to help people, thus getting more people to join up.

1.) They could make the stores unionized to start, no need to go through organization and a vote.

2.) They could pay a ‘Living Wage”.

3.) They could give ‘good’ health Insurance at a low price.

4.) They would have ‘good’ relations between the company (union) and the workers.

5.) They could give a ‘good’ benefit package.

6.) If they are RIGHT and what they ask of Wal-Mart is ‘good’ policy, how could they fail?

7.) They should have people flocking to their doors for jobs and the chance to buy union backed products.

8.) Wal-Mart would go down in flames, right?

9.) Why DON"T they do it?  Because they know it won’t work!!!

In memory of the staff of the Jonquiere Quebec Walmart.

We will never forget the Jonquiere Quebec store and its employee’s who were punished by Walmart corporation for exercising their rights under Canadian law to participate in legal union activity.

Bentonville, this will always be your legacy in Canada and around the world.

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Well, dear someone, the idea that nothing I’ve said makes any sense to you is funny.

Snippy insults aside, I’ve made some pretty balanced statements and have been quite open about my point of view, to wit:

“I would PREFER if blighted neighborhoods could see organic growth...walkable streetscapes rather than Supercenters. That is my bias, in favor of more shops and smaller shops. I think it’s absurd, in a city like Chicago, to have to drive to get a quart of milk. The fact that Black nabes in Chicago are so underserved is a shame. I’m not blaming WalMart for that or for exploiting the void in the market. I am, however, lamenting that that is the state of afffairs in those neighborhoods.”

It’s the two of you who have made this discussion about something else. This thread started out as a discussion about Andy Young’s comments and whether or not WalMart would force “mom and pop” grocers out of business. My central point is that while having a WalMart would be better than what some Chicago neighborhoods currently have, ultimately WalMart is bad for Chicago...the old “death of diversity” problem.

It’s true that I think their clothes are crap...dreary ill-fitting stuff, but the main reason I am opposed to WalMart is because, to me, it represents the death of diversity.

If you can’t see that downtown areas across this country have been sucked dry by the local WalMart a mile and a half down the road, then it is you and your buddy Bob who are in deep denial. If you aren’t even a little mournful of the fact that every little town has the same collection of fast food joints and a WalMart, then I insist that you do lack imagination.

The wage ordinance was bad legislation, but then we outlawed foie gras, so go figure. Nonetheless, people have a right to decide what their communities should look like. Businesses can set up wherever they want? How about an adult bookstore, or three, or six, on Main Street in your town. Hell, why not ten if the demand is there!?!

Because you might feel that’s not the kind of community you want to live in.

Same here.

I live in a big city for a reason...diversity. Social, cultural and economic diveristy. In my opinion, WalMart would be bad (in the long run) for neighborhoods that need development the most.

Lastly, are you really baffled by the concept that bigger companies have a greater obligation to society than do smaller companies? You want proof? I’ll give it to you in your own words:

“Your attitude that you have the right to do whatever you want and shouldn’t have to live with the consequences is exactly why the country is going down the tubes.”

Amen, brother! It’s a social contract. That is why the largest company in the world has an obligation to be ethical and moral.

If a foreign country has no law against child labor or slavery then, in your world view, WalMart can do business there because they can maximize profit without “breaking the law.”

But you getting your beloved Wrangler jeans for $19 isn’t worth the harm done by using child labor or slave labor.

Does THAT make any sense to you?

“"1.) They could make the stores unionized to start, no need to go through organization and a vote. 2.) They could pay a ‘Living Wage”. 3.) They could give ‘good’ health Insurance at a low price. 4.) They would have ‘good’ relations between the company (union) and the workers. 5.) They could give a ‘good’ benefit package. 6.) If they are RIGHT and what they ask of Wal-Mart is ‘good’ policy, how could they fail? 7.) They should have people flocking to their doors for jobs and the chance to buy union backed products. 8.) Wal-Mart would go down in flames, right? 9.) Why DON"T they do it?  Because they know it won’t work!!!"”

The actual answer to your question is that there is too great a disparity in the size of the company you propose and WalMart. But let’s take another example...Starbucks. They are doing virtually everything you list and they are now the top coffee company in the country, if not the world. People pay a premium for their product and I think that there is a general awareness that the company has a good benefit package. So people will spend money to support their beliefs. And the previous market leader Dunkin Donuts revamped their product line to try to compete.

And, to further the concept of a company treading lightly on the earth, Starbucks could either use its dominant position to force growers to supply beans at the absolute lowest cost or it could do what it does...pay the growers a living wage to ensure a future for the workers and the industry.

“Really, I don’t care whether Wal-Mart builds stores in Chicago, I only care about this attack on Capitolism, that sets it’s sites only on certain businesses.”

Well, I care deeply, so there you have it. WalMart is facing a large-scale attack because it is a large company. And it’s the same battles again and again because the company tries to roll out the same formula again and again. The social contract has it that a company can be in a community and reap rewards, but then they are subject to the standards of the community. If people think a company is a bad fit or will have a bad impact, they have the right to protest. People aren’t against capitalism...they are against WalMart. The two are not synonymous.

Freedom of speech and the right to organize are as American as capitalism and free markets.

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SouthSide,

What you fail to understand, among many other things, is that the hippie-dippe ethos is part of the product that Starbucks is selling. They are an upmarket, urban brand. Part of their cache is to appeal to the groovy, upper middle class hippies by stroking their egos and creating an environment in which they feel comfortable. That is WHY people pay a premium price for their goods. The increased price is the cost of doing business such that the pseudo-intellectual, ipod-wearing, black-pants-blue-stipe-shirt set feels good about spending money there.

WalMart is none of these things. The goal of the WalMart brand is low prices. You aren’t paying a premium so that you can feel like you are saving the rainforests and enjoying a tasty cup of coffee at the same time.  WalMart is trying to get you cheap toothpaste.

In short, even Starbucks does what it does for a profit. They may pretend that they aren’t too concerned about that nasty money like those evil Capitalist pigs at WalMart, but that is called marketing and you shouldn’t take it too much to heart.

Again, why do you want to force poor people to shop at Mom and Pop grocery and pay 5$ a gallon for expired milk? You would rather that then an evil, hideous, un-lovely big-box store spoil your neighborhoods “diversity”?? Go peddle that to people who are really stuck in those situations and not just pretending to be “urban” because it’s currently cool.

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