Better Health Care Together

Universal health care IS comming, it’s NOT if but when. The working class are getting tired of the rising costs of traditional health care. One of the biggest arguments against Clintons proposed health care program was, your CHOICE of doctors would be taken away, and your healthcare choices would be limited. But what we have found is that with HMO’s is that they already do that, and do it much worse that the proposed Clinton plan. What we’re realizing as a nation is, that the INSURANCE companys and PHARMA companys spent over a billion dollars lying to us and scaring us against a plan that works. Theirs is the one that costs us, costs out of pocket and with the lives and well being of the ones that we love. How much more do we have to suffer before our country finaly has health care for all it’s citicens. Why is it that we are first on the moon, and last to have universal health care? This is one more issue that the unions are leading the way on in our country.

DAVE SMITH
PROUD UNION IRONWORKER

If universal health care comes to the US then what comes with it is rationed services.  Nice to know you have a doctor only to find out you may never be able to get an appointment or have to wait months and months for a procedure.  Yea Ironhead… that’s the solution to all our healthcare needs.  Universal health care is not a panacia just another problem in search of a solution.

Mark

You are absolutely right. It amazes me that people have so much faith in government. Perhaps this faith is based on the fact that they hope the government will give them the equality they are too lazy to get on their own. Our government, which can’t manage a purchase order, can’t oversee contracts, can’t keep track of military hardware, loses over $2 billion in military goods per year, can’t deliver the mail on time, can’t balance a budget, can’t manage a retirement system, can’t take care of veterans and can’t educate our children, well.......they CAN be trusted to manage something as important as our healthcare, right?

We CAN make healthcare more affordable in this country if we focus on some of these ideas:

1. Eliminate any health care for illegal immigrants and also for any welfare bums who refuse to work.
2. Streamline the FDA drug approval process and increase patent times.
3. Allow less complicated medical procedures to be performed by cheaper workers.
4. Encourage more medical schools to open and increase the number of doctors. Allow for profit med schools.
5. Do away with AMA approvals and “board certified” requirements that eliminate competition.
6. Eliminate “defensive medicine” through tort reform.
7. Along the same lines, limit lawsuits and judgement amounts and apply a higher standard of proof to such cases.
8. Do not permit a person to join in a class action suit unless that person can demostrate harm in relation to the suit in question.
9. Make serious changes in Medicare. Cut waste here.
10. Allow Americans to save health expense money, pre-tax and allow employers to contribute to these health funds, which would be similar to IRA’s. Permit the money to be spent only on health related expenses.
11. Eliminate government interference in health care and cut red tape. Also make insurance simple and easy to understand. Americans spend upwards of $600 billion per year on health related paperwork alone.
12. Allow for pre-tax deductions of gym and health club memberships.
13. Make general health checkups and exams simple and affordable through the elimination of red tape.
14. Require all providers to post prices for all procedures and expenses in their office and online. Permit consumers to shop around.

Following these simple, easy steps could save us more than $1 trillion per year. There is no reason why we can’t have excellent health care at affordable prices.

Mark in and Ellis

Thats all the same old tried right winged PROPAGANDA.

By John R. Battista, M.D. and Justine McCabe, Ph.D.

Why doesn’t the United States have universal health care as a right of citizenship? The United States is the only industrialized nation that does not guarantee access to health care as a right of citizenship. 28 industrialized nations have single payer universal health care systems, while 1 (Germany) has a multipayer universal health care system like President Clinton proposed for the United States.

Myth One: The United States has the best health care system in the world.
Fact One: The United States ranks 23rd in infant mortality, down from 12th in 1960 and 21st in 1990

Fact Two: The United States ranks 20th in life expectancy for women down from 1st in 1945 and 13th in 1960

Fact Three: The United States ranks 21st in life expectancy for men down from 1st in 1945 and 17th in 1960.

Fact Four: The United States ranks between 50th and 100th in immunizations depending on the immunization. Overall US is 67th, right behind Botswana

Fact Five: Outcome studies on a variety of diseases, such as coronary artery disease, and renal failure show the United States to rank below Canada and a wide variety of industrialized nations.

Conclusion: The United States ranks poorly relative to other industrialized nations in health care despite having the best trained health care providers and the best medical infrastructure of any industrialized nation

Myth Two: Universal Health Care Would Be Too Expensive
Fact One: The United States spends at least 40% more per capita on health care than any other industrialized country with universal health care

Fact Two: Federal studies by the Congressional Budget Office and the General Accounting office show that single payer universal health care would save 100 to 200 Billion dollars per year despite covering all the uninsured and increasing health care benefits.

Fact Three: State studies by Massachusetts and Connecticut have shown that single payer universal health care would save 1 to 2 Billion dollars per year from the total medical expenses in those states despite covering all the uninsured and increasing health care benefits

Fact Four: The costs of health care in Canada as a % of GNP, which were identical to the United States when Canada changed to a single payer, universal health care system in 1971, have increased at a rate much lower than the United States, despite the US economy being much stronger than Canada’s.

Conclusion: Single payer universal health care costs would be lower than the current US system due to lower administrative costs. The United States spends 50 to 100% more on administration than single payer systems. By lowering these administrative costs the United States would have the ability to provide universal health care, without managed care, increase benefits and still save money

Myth Three: Universal Health Care Would Deprive Citizens of Needed Services
Fact One: Studies reveal that citizens in universal health care systems have more doctor visits and more hospital days than in the US

Fact Two: Around 30% of Americans have problem accessing health care due to payment problems or access to care, far more than any other industrialized country. About 17% of our population is without health insurance. About 75% of ill uninsured people have trouble accessing/paying for health care.

Fact Three: Comparisons of Difficulties Accessing Care Are Shown To Be Greater In The US Than Canada (see graph)

Fact Four: Access to health care is directly related to income and race in the United States. As a result the poor and minorities have poorer health than the wealthy and the whites.

Fact Five: There would be no lines under a universal health care system in the United States because we have about a 30% oversupply of medical equipment and surgeons, whereas demand would increase about 15%

Conclusion: The US denies access to health care based on the ability to pay. Under a universal health care system all would access care. There would be no lines as in other industrialized countries due to the oversupply in our providers and infrastructure, and the willingness/ability of the United States to spend more on health care than other industrialized nations.

There is more.......

Myth Four: Universal Health Care Would Result In Government Control And Intrusion Into Health Care Resulting In Loss Of Freedom Of Choice
Fact One: There would be free choice of health care providers under a single payer universal health care system, unlike our current managed care system in which people are forced to see providers on the insurer’s panel to obtain medical benefits

Fact Two: There would be no management of care under a single payer, universal health care system unlike the current managed care system which mandates insurer preapproval for services thus undercutting patient confidentiality and taking health care decisions away from the health care provider and consumer

Fact Three: Although health care providers fees would be set as they are currently in 90% of cases, providers would have a means of negotiating fees unlike the current managed care system in which they are set in corporate board rooms with profits, not patient care, in mind

Fact Four: Taxes, fees and benefits would be decided by the insurer which would be under the control of a diverse board representing consumers, providers, business and government. It would not be a government controlled system, although the government would have to approve the taxes. The system would be run by a public trust, not the government.

Conclusion: Single payer, universal health care administered by a state public health system would be much more democratic and much less intrusive than our current system. Consumers and providers would have a voice in determining benefits, rates and taxes. Problems with free choice, confidentiality and medical decision making would be resolved
Myth Five: Universal Health Care Is Socialized Medicine And Would Be Unacceptable To The Public
Fact One: Single payer universal health care is not socialized medicine. It is health care payment system, not a health care delivery system. Health care providers would be in fee for service practice, and would not be employees of the government, which would be socialized medicine. Single payer health care is not socialized medicine, any more than the public funding of education is socialized education, or the public funding of the defense industry is socialized defense.

Fact Two: Repeated national and state polls have shown that between 60 and 75% of Americans would like a universal health care system (see The Harris Poll #78, October 20, 2005)

Conclusion: Single payer, universal health care is not socialized medicine and would be preferred by the majority of the citizens of this country
Myth Six: The Problems With The US Health Care System Are Being Solved and Are Best Solved By Private Corporate Managed Care Medicine because they are the most efficient
Fact One: Private for profit corporation are the lease efficient deliverer of health care. They spend between 20 and 30% of premiums on administration and profits. The public sector is the most efficient. Medicare spends 3% on administration.

Fact Two: The same procedure in the same hospital the year after conversion from not-for profit to for-profit costs in between 20 to 35% more

Fact Three: Health care costs in the United States grew more in the United States under managed care in 1990 to 1996 than any other industrialized nation with single payer universal health care

Fact Four: The quality of health care in the US has deteriorated under managed care. Access problems have increased. The number of uninsured has dramatically increased (increase of 10 million to 43.4 million from 1989 to 1996, increase of 2.4% from 1989 to 1996- 16% in 1996 and increasing each year).

Fact Five: The level of satisfaction with the US health care system is the lowest of any industrialized nation.

Fact Six: 80% of citizens and 71% of doctors believe that managed care has caused quality of care to be compromised

There is more.......

Conclusion: For profit, managed care can not solve the US health care problems because health care is not a commodity that people shop for, and quality of care must always be compromised when the motivating factor for corporations is to save money through denial of care and decreasing provider costs. In addition managed care has introduced problems of patient confidentiality and disrupted the continuity of care through having limited provider networks.
Overall Answer to the questions Why doesn’t the US have single payer universal health care when single payer universal health care is the most efficient, most democratic and most equitable means to deliver health care? Why does the United States remain wedded to an inefficient, autocratic and immoral system that makes health care accessible to the wealthy and not the poor when a vast majority of citizens want it to be a right of citizenship?
Conclusion: Corporations are able to buy politicians through our campaign finance system and control the media to convince people that corporate health care is democratic, represents freedom, and is the most efficient system for delivering health care

I thought that this would give you right wingers somthing to chew on. 

I and so many other in our country are tired uf seeing poor children go without medical attaintion. My wifes mother died of cancer because she couldn’t get a Doctor to help her. This is the richest country in the world, there is NO reason for any one to have to go without medical attaintion. PERIOD!!!!

If every other country can do then we should be able to do it BETTER. We are supposed to lead the way, not only in business, and war, but also in HUMANITY. If your country lets it’s own people go without medical attaintion, and die for the almighty dollar, what kind of message does that send to the rest of the world.

DAVE SMITH
PROUD UNION IRONWORKER

To call it universial health care provided by the goverment is wrong. If health care is provided by employers it could be a big found like Blue Cross use to be. Every one had it. 
Example if blood work cost 600 dollars but by the type of insurance you have the insurance company paid 97.00 for the test. What does this say about over charging. I was charged 500.00 dollars for a mamo-gram . My insurance would not pay for it because the main provider was in another state and I was out of their system net-work for this procedure, so six months later and lots of paper work and phone calls I was charged 145.00 for this mamo-gram. If i had blue cross and blue shield the payment would have been 25.00 and the hospital would have gotten 50.00 for the same test.  We use to have blue cross. This is the problem. It is what the insurence companies contract with the health care places. If Wal-mart and unions worked together on this then health care will not be the problem This isn’t universial health care , but stoping over charging Think about how many woman get mamo-grams each year andthe cost of 500 for each test and how the over charge is worked. have you ever seen a small hospital? Come -on this is a ploy so hospitals can over charge and insurance companies can controll how people can get treated when sick. If the health care was run like a competive business and people had opitions this would not be the problem. My father in law had no insurence coverage when my husband was born and he still has the bill. My mother inlaw was in the hosiptal for five days and the bill was less then two hundred dollare of course that was a long time ago but not that long. My husband is fifty years old and it was a brand new hospital.

Some average wait times for medical procedures in Canada.  Here is a sampling from the province of Manitoba from 2006.

MRI - 9 Weeks/adults, 11 weeks/children
Hip Replacement - 18-22 weeks
Cataract Eye Surgery - 6- 26 weeks
Knee Replacement - 30-35 weeks

In addition in June 2005 the high court in Canada struck down a Quebec law that prohibited people from purchasing private insurance.... why.... because people could not get the services they needed in the public sector.

Ironhead you are absolutely right that health care spending in this country is very high compared to ther industrialized countries but other universal health care countries can artificially keep their spending down by rationing service… hence look at Canada.  Universal health care is not the “it’s so great” solution, it only trades problems.  What is needed is more competition in health care.  You may talk about “right wing propaganda” but you’ve been drinking a little too much from the koolaid if you think that competition would not help the situation. 

Each item that Ellis presented would do just that.  Now if only our couragous (not) leaders in congress and the executive branch would “grow some” and start to address the problem instead of sticking their head in the sand like they have done with SSA.

Dave,

“28 industrialized nations have single payer universal health care systems,”

I find it kind of strange, that you claim to be 100% American and yet support a Nationalized Health Care System.  In less than 200 years, this country went from a ‘new’ nation, to number 1 in the world and we did it by not copying any of the other countries who had been around for thousands of years.  Now, all of a sudden, people are saying that we should CHANGE that practice and start following what other countries are doing.  If those other countries have it RIGHT and we have it WRONG, how come we are still number 1 in the world and they aren’t?  Where does Canada rate in the world stage?

Yes, we have health care problems, but do we really want to throw our whole system out the window and go with what the loser countries have?  What not just try to fix the one that has served this country well for so many years?  EllisW, has it right, we need to fix the things that are broken, not scrap the whole thing.

There have always been ‘poor’ people and unless somehow, they decide to ‘wake up’ and pay attention to their lives, we will always have ‘poor’ people.  You can’t solve everyone’s problems, unless they are willing to help themselves.  Getting something, paid for by someone else, is only a “Bandaid on major surgery”, infection will set in, if you don’t take care of the problem.  Financial dicipline in spending is what solves the problems, not having someone else always pay your way through life.  Saving and investing in your future, does more to bring people out of poverty, than any handouts will ever do.  Now, I know that you will say, “They have nothing to save”, but, what about if they stopped buying that beer or cigarettes, or get rid of that cell phone for awhile and go landline?  There are many ways to maximize you income, if you just pay attention to it and spend wisely!!!

Mark

You give an example of 9/11 weeks for an MRI. I was in a car accident and it took me over a year to get an MRI and anouther 8 months for the back surgery, and I was insured. What kind of wait times are there for those that are NOT insured? In all too many cases people that can’t afford insurance (which BTW is a number that is growing by leaps and bounds) never get treatment, or by the time that they do get treatment, it’s too late.

DAVE SMITH
PROUD UNION IRONWORKER

Boob

That is THE dumbest argument that you have yet to post!

“I find it kind of strange, that you claim to be 100% American and yet support a Nationalized Health Care System”

You are trying to equate a national health care system with being UNAMERICAN. I say that it is TRULY AMERICAN.

Our country was based on a UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL. I believe that we owe more to our fellow country men, woman, and CHILDREN than make them do without doctors care when they need it. I think that it’s discusting to make poor people and those that are down on their luck have to degrade themselves farther and have to basicly BEG for help. Medical should be a RIGHT for ALL in this country and every one should recieve the same medical treatment reguardless of wealth.

Boob, America is a UNION. just look at the name “UNITED” States of America. Our country was founded on that principle. I believe it to be UNAMERICAN to only look after yourself and say screw the rest of the people. The fact is Boob, only selfish self centered people, such as yourself and a few others on this site, believe it to be patriotic to to feel outherwise.

DAVE SMITH
PROUD UNION IRONWORKER

Davie

I don’t recall socialism being one of the great American ideals. 

Peace

Davie Boy,

“Boob, America is a UNION. just look at the name “UNITED” States of America. Our country was founded on that principle. I believe it to be UNAMERICAN to only look after yourself and say screw the rest of the people. The fact is Boob, only selfish self centered people, such as yourself and a few others on this site, believe it to be patriotic to to feel outherwise.”

In a union, what happens when you don’t pay your dues?  Do you still continue to recieve the benefits of membership?

Are you saying, that if I decided to lay around the house, drink beer and watch T.V. all day, I have the RIGHT to have everything that working people get?  Remember, if they don’t work, THEY PAY NO TAXES ( They aren’t paying their dues).  Maybe you think I’m being selfish, but I am just tired of paying to support people who don’t care to support themselves.  The American way, is that everyone is supposed to be working for that American Dream, not sitting in some drug house getting high or refusing to put forth the effort to do things for themselves.  In the old days, people would help their neighbors, but, that neighbor would help next time someone needed it, it was give and take, not just you GIVE, GIVE, GIVE and I TAKE, TAKE, TAKE.

And, if you don’t believe that the people I am talking about exist, either you aren’t looking, refuse to see or don’t associate with people like that.  I do know some people like that and, I have never seen anyone of them not get healthcare provided to them, the only thing I see, is them not paying the bill for it.

Well, Bonehead, if you think health care should be free for all, aren’t you basically offering the services of health providers against their will? You claim to be an Ironworker. Well, I think all Americans should have the right to free housing. No American should have to beg for a place to live. Therefore, I demand that you and all your fellow union workers provide labor and materials, on demand, to anyone who requests them. If you don’t want to do it or don’t make any money at it, so what? People are in need! Who are you to be selfish and deny your talent to Americans in need?

The United States Of America is not a union. It was originally a loose confederation of colonies united in their common defense. This nation did not have a permanent income tax until after WWI. To compare socialist militants like unions to a great Constitutional Republics like the USA is simply ridiculous.

Now, Bonehead, bring yourself, your union and the materials hither. I need a new house for some neighbors of mine. You don’t have the right to say no. If you do, you are selfish swine and are un-American. You have something and I need something. My need trumps your need. So, what are you waiting on?

Ellis

That post above is laughable to say the least. You should write fiction...... Oh hell forgive me, what am I talking about, you DO WRITE FICTION. HA,HA,HA

How prey tell do you get that “offering the services of health providers against their will” Universal healthcare is a paid service. But of corse you know that.

Ellis if you had been keeping up with this post, you would already know that I volunteer with Habitat for Humanity so with any luck you may find youself homeless and putting your name on a list, and who knows, I may just build your home. So just as soon as you get that crusty ole foot out of your mouth, you can get right on that apology, I won’t hold my breath.

DAVE SMITH
PROUD UNION IRONWORKER

Thanks IRONHEAD for the Battista-McCabe study. It confirms so much of what I have observed and heard from others in health care.

Large numbers of doctors in the U.S. are going ‘naked’ without malpractice coverage and employing asset protection trust devices because insurance companies have screwed them over as well.

A doctor in the office next door some years back was there until 10-11PM filling out insurance company paperwork beyond what his staff could handle. He told me one evening that he had had enough of this and was selling out to a larger provider. Insurance companies put him out of business.

Many physicians/groups have already refused patients with insurance payment schemes and are fee for service arrangements only.

Thanks again for the article-

WalMart- We dump associates onto the various state health care systems for taxpayers to pay for it. We also pay bloggers to evade and distort information.

BLOCKHEAD

You didn’t address my points, as per usual. What I said was, universal health care forces providers to work for the government at the rate the government wants to pay. A provider cannot establish his own patient base under socialized medicine and he cannot set his own prices or caseload. Hence, government tells him how much he has to work and how much he can make. This makes all providers employees of the government and completely eliminates any semblence of a free market healthcare system.

Now, what I said was, if you think this sort of theft is something to be encouraged, then you should be held to the same standard. You and your union friends should work everyday for the next 30 years building homes on demand for people who will not pay you and who will tell you how often to work. Would you like that? No? Then why do you encourage such a system for providers, a system no American would ever voluntarily agree to. Everyone wants socialized this or that until its their labors that are socialized. Hold yourself to the same standard. If doctors are to be slaves to the government, so should iron workers have their hours and wages dictated to them.

To All
There is currently NO CHOICE in healthcare for persons without insurance. If you have money you can go to the doctor if you do not have money then you don’t go.  A person may work very hard for 40 or more hours per week and still not be able to afford the $75 to see the doctor and then the $50 for the medicine and that is just for a minor illness. People in the country have to choose between food and medicine.  There’s your choice!  A ration of health care is better than no health care and by the way, that rationed health care is keeping every other industrialized nation healthier than we are!
In what world are doctors slaves?  Do you truly believe this occurs in nations with universal health care?  Doctors and hospitals are already forced to work for a given rate anyway; it is called Medicare, Medicaid and the insurance industry.  Hospitals and doctors charge insurance companies, on the average, 20% of what you or I would pay if we pay for services out of pocket!  Your precious American healthcare system is giving the break to the corporations who profit from our illness and will follow the individual to his grave attempting to collect on an over inflated bill!
EllisW and others against national healthcare it seems as though you are saying that a doctor’s salary and the drug company’s profits are more important than the health of our citizens.  Those of you who have not seen people go without healthcare are very fortunate and quite sheltered.  Not only do people go without but often lose everything to a tragic medical condition.  Should people who have worked hard all their lives be destroyed thanks to the misfortune of cancer or an accident?  This is what happens!  Medical bills are involved in most personal bankruptcies, how is this right or fair or just?  It is not and most of all our nation is suppose to be about what is fair and just.
Also, no one should be without a home in the richest nation in the world.  That doesn’t mean we build everyone a home in the suburbs, it means no one sleeps in the street.  Has anyone introduced the color gray to you??? It is the one that is between black and white.  Get an imagination already!
Lynn

Fact: any universal anything, requires coercion. Coercion is forcing someone to do something he does not want to do; in this case, it’s extend services for a fee less than he feels he should receive. It is akin to asking… no, requiring, Walmart workers to work for less pay. Their choice is… quit. And with doctors, that is exactly what is happening in Canada and Europe, where they are making that choice and coming to which country? This one.

The desire to get something for nothing, or at least a discount, is always strong. Even if it’s at the cost of forced labor by someone else.

There are universal licenses, universal car insurance, universal homeowner’s insurance, universal taxes, and universal car registration.  As a society we are forced to do things we may or may not agree with for the benefit of the society as a whole.  The alternative is that we do not take care of our citizens.  Seniors can eat or buy their digitalis to keep their heart regular.  My sister can fall asleep during her job or continue to cheat the system for the Provigil that keeps her awake and otherwise costs $350 per month.  The medicine to treat shingles cost $280 for a one-week treatment.  It is our of control and beyond the reach of the average person.
Health savings accounts?  Who was the genius that thought people who are having difficulty in affording the basics in life would have money to put towards that?  Simple math tells us that what we have is not affordable and what conservatives say is the answer is entirely ridiculous. 
Here is a website that compares the US to other countries:
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/8Comparison.htm. 
We no longer lead the world because we are allowing the rich in this nation to line their pockets at our expense.  People who are too afraid to admit we need to change and too proud to admit what we are doing is not working are the upper class’s best friend!  We are making the American dream impossible.
I am all for the American dream and have worked from a homeless teenager to an adult who owns two homes and their own business. I am no slacker who wants a free ride just justice.  Thank goodness I aquired my life when health insurance at your job was still common.  The fact that I own my business is what makes me aware of how unaffordable health care is.  My sister who earns $2500 per month at her teaching job would be required to pay $400 a month for health insurance that did not fully insure her. 
What are people afraid of?  Can’t you see that this is working in every other industrialized nation in the world and that we are now viewed a primitive?  Do we have to wait until a health care tragedy is a personal experience for everyone or can we just learn from others?
Lynn

Hi
There is no best solution
But think, Insurances dont pay healthcare providers even when services are provided, just because the bill was not written the way they want it?
Or that the bill was not sent on time.
Even when service is provided, insurances dictate if they will pay or not and how much is reasonable.
Doctors lost their power when they decided to accept payments from the insurance companies, instead of first taking payment from the patient and then having the patient try to get reimbursed from their insurance company.
Only then people would know how good their health insurance is.
Same applies to all kinds of Insurances. We are prompt in paying the premiums for our car insurances, home insurances, health insurances, but how often do they truly provide service that we expected?

By definition, Insurance is the biggest fraud, just like politics.
Say one thing and then not provide what is promised.

Doctors should be paid their dues just like you would pay a plumber when you have a leak, an electrician, car mechanic etc. Have you ever had to have an insurance pay any of those bills?

Pharmaceuticals depend on the US population to pay for their R&D;, and they provide cheap meds to other countries.

Malpractice is the real cause of high costs for everything. Not just in healthcare. Every one has to have some legal protection for every small thing. The whole world laughs at us when some people win stupid lawsuits because they won money for dropping hot coffee on their laps.

We need to have a common sense law, not the complex legal system that thrives on people like us who will continue to pay monthly payments for all kinds of rip offs like insurances that never provide, politicians and predatory credit card companies etc

If we paid for services when needed, we would not need insurances. An average family who is self employed would have to pay $1000 a month to get health insurance. If you dont use it, especially if you are young, $12,000 a year is gone. In 5 years you would have paid $60,000 to a insurance company, which can drop you tomorrow without reason and then your money is gone.
If you kept the same money aside, it would be useful for a lifetime of health expenses.
Unfortunately we have been trained to expect things for free, and so are tempted to pay monthly, endless fees.

We need to learn to pay for everything, and demand reasonable charges and we will get the right price/ or discount.
Learn not to expect anything free.
We pay more for auto insurance than the actual car. The legal system uses the fear factor to make us pay everyone in case of a bad event. We can always save for such events instead of involving middle men who ripp us off.

I am really impressed with how much lack of information most of your opinions are. SOme of you spit out myths bases on nothing.

Universal Health Care has nothing to do with a socialism. It is a proven system that works.

Our health system has a 30% overhead. With a Universal system there would only be a 15% increase in heath demands. Which = no longer wait time then you have now. It would probably be faster because you wouldn’y have to deal with insurance approval wait times.

Even now..our insurance wait times are worse then the wait times for other countries.

Oh and we are number one in the world because of brute force nothing more. We are an efficent war machine. Post world war 2 is what cause our most rapid growth. BUT...we are nearly last in all other areas compaired to industrial nations.

WOOHOO...we consume more and we have the badest military in the world....go US..

but we are last in education. Health care. Development. (china beats us there and they are comies), production, you name it we are falling behind. Just a matter of time before someone knocks us off the top for military. Then what do we have.

How about you swallow your pride and look at the facts. Universial health care is a step in the right direction.