Black (and Blue) Friday at Wal-Mart

It’s the idiots that shop, not the store they shop at.  Personal accountability for one’s actions are no longer part of this society.  You stupid website proves that.  You have to blame someone else for the UFCW’s failures.

This I quote from a CNNMoney article online, found at <http://money.cnn.com/2005/11/25/news/fortune500/holiday_walmart_promotions>:

begin quote

A Wal-Mart (Research) spokeswoman, when asked how the world’s No. 1 retailer is going to handle shoppers angry about missing out on the deals, said stores will have comparable products with comparable prices. But she didn’t say they would be the same brands.

Calls made to several Wal-Marts around the country revealed that one of the hottest items on the holiday sale list, a $378 Hewlett-Packard laptop, sold out within the first hour the stores were open.

“They trampled each other for ‘em,” said one Wal-Mart employee at a Maryland store. “It was great.”

Four Wal-Marts contacted by CNNMoney.com said they received limited supplies of the HP laptop, ranging from 15 at a store in Michigan to about 65 at the Maryland location.

‘There were a couple hundred people waiting in line to get into the electronics department and many were angry about waiting around for nothing,” Tim Severance, in an e-mail to CNNMoney.com, said of a Wal-Mart in Martinsburg, W.Va. “Turns out that it was only a gimmick to get people into their store.”

end quote

Yes, a “gimmick” to sucker people into trampling all over each other to get a handful of cheap laptops after standing in line overnight.  Sure sounds like corporate accountability is what was mostly absent.  Not one mention of just how limited the merchandise would actually be in their ads--I got one in the mail before Thanksgiving and read it most carefully.  Usually, “limited quantities” means at least a few hundred, not less than fifty.

Who cares about “Who cares” and his (?) comments.  Just another shill for Wally World.

There was no “corporate accountability problem”. Limited quantity means limited, that is all there is to it (and the value of “a few hundred” is never assigned to it be default). You’ll clutch at straws to find any flimsy excuse to bash Wal-Mart.

And, if it was a “a gimmick to sucker people into trampling all over each other”, it failed miserably. Only one of Wal-Mart’s thousands of stores reported that trampling happened.

Who cares what you say, you are just another shill for the grocery union.

Pretty brave of you to go on your orgy of posts jc.  You don’t even have the integrity or backbone to use your full name, or state where you’re from.  Judging from the content of your posts, my first guess would be that you live somewhere in the far northwestern part of Arkansas.

Tom Boese
Field Producer - Wisconsin
Brave New Films

Good call, Tom. One of the annoying trolls, Dan McGuire (aka, David in Zack, AR), does in fact live in Northwest Arkansas and he recently started posting under his real name. Apparently, there’s not much to do there because he spends all day long writing long-winded, obnoxious, and factually incorrect comments on this site.

This sounds like another chance for people to argue for lack of something to do...what is the point?  Check the computer how many times a day to argue about Wally world??  I have better things to do, and if you don’t like the Wal-Mart stores..DONT SHOP THERE!!  And since when are the stores responsible for people acting like idiots to save a buck or two?  Last I knew, I myself am accountable for my actions, not the stores.  All this Black Friday stuff is crazy, and people make it that way.  Not my fault that they weren’t taught how to lose gracefully and be polite.  That is our new world now...only out for #1..there are no manners or morals, so why would it be any different?

I find it funny that you find the time to scrutinize Wal-Mart. As you so proudly outline the negative, as if there were not other department stores that had issues arise on this busiest shopping day of the year. I would like to have the opportunity to review your life (and only focus on your negative experiences) as you only seem to be focused on the negative of a company that employs 1.6 million + people. Who with out there job at Wal-Mart would not be able to buy any presents this holiday season. I guess you feel that you are doing a great service to the community, as do most small minded people who don’t have a life. Keep up the good work, reminding me that Wal-Mart is a good company and a great asset to the communities they serve.

Ever notice, that if you are pro Wal-Mart, you are either, an ignorant idiot, a Wal-Mart shill or paid poster, an uneducated person, from Arkansas, Mississippi or some other redneck area or just plain stupid.

But, if you are anti WalMart, you are the concerned intelligent do-gooder, who only has the wealfare of the employees in mind and the only way to do that is to ‘show them the light’ that would shine upon them, if only they would embrace the Union.  Or elae, they are the Saviors of America and feel that those “Slave Workers” in other countries, would be better off if Wal-Mart would only stop buying from them.

Congratulations Robert Springer!  The first paragraph in your last post, was the first intelligent thing I’ve seen you acknowledge.  I guess there’s not much to do there in northwestern Arkansas except shop at, defend, and perhaps even work for Wal-Mart.

I also want to go on record to take strong exception with Eric J’s racist posting.  Nobody should make the assumption he speaks for anyone but himself.  He does not speak for Walmartwatch, the UFCW, and he certainly does not speak for Brave New Films.  The fight with Wal-Mart has never been based on the premise that Wal-Mart stores are “chuck full of minorities.”

Eric J’s statement: “Then we can raise the prices and raise the standards of the customers,” is just as illogical as Wal-Mart’s contention that “rolling back the prices,” somehow raises the standard of living for consumers in this country.  The root causes of racism and poverty have been debated in this country long before anyone heard of Wal-Mart.

Tom Boese
Field Producer - WI
Brave New Films

tom sez: “I also want to go on record to take strong exception with Eric J�s racist posting”

Is the Internet phenomenom known as “the troll” new to you? I think it is. Why else would you even consider Eric J seriously, or think that he was serious?

tom sez: “is just as illogical as Wal-Mart�s contention that �rolling back the prices,� somehow raises the standard of living for consumers in this country”

Now now, there is nothing illogical about that. The less you have to spend, the better the standard of living.

kimmie sez: “ I have better things to do, and if you don�t like the Wal-Mart stores..DONT SHOP THERE!! “

I’d call you a troll too. This idea is so obvious and so simple, why does it even need mentioning? Yet. with guys like Tom around, and “Gee NTD”, it turns out that some people just do not know this basic idea. and it does need repeating. Thanks for stating the obvious for the benefit of those who do not even yet grasp the obvious.

tom sez: “You don�t even have the integrity “

Yes, go ahead and insult. It is a lot easier than dealing with the facts presented in my messages. It is jus as lame as accusing anyone who dares to look at the facts in these matters of being a “Wal-Mart shill”.

--------
Does anyone else remember shopping horror stories of years past of people beating each other fighting over “Tickle Me Elmo” or “Cabbage Patch Dolls”? Does anyone remember anyone actually blaming FAO Schwarz or K-Mart for the fisticuffs?

jc sez:  “The less you have to spend, the better the standard of living.” Oh--now I get it jc!  Don’t pay your workers a decent livable salary, make sure that they have to run to the state and federal government for health care and other benefits, squeeze your supplier’s margins to the point of vanishing, outsource manufacturing to places like China and Bangladesh, and the standard of living will go up!  For who--Lee Scott and the Walton’s?

Tom Boese
Field Producer - WI
Brave New Films

Wal-Mart already pays a decent and liveable salary. Whether or not a salary is “liveable” depends on the life YOU choose. The salary is quite decent. Why should they pay anyone more than for the worth of the work being done? The problem of people running to the government for handouts is a problem that needs addressing through welfare reform. It is not Wal-Mart’s problem that someone gets paid for what they do, the that person chooses to live beyond their means, and then can’t make ends meet so they get covetous and beg for handouts. It is a matter of personal responsibility.

Whose standard of living will go up? The many millions of customers who don’t have to pay as much. I should have worded my statement differently: “The lower the prices, the more you have left over to spend on what you want, or to save.”.  It’s a definite standard-of-living booster.

tom sez: “squeeze your supplier�s margins to the point of vanishing”

Boo hoo hoo. Let’s now cry for the middleman who no longer is able to take a huge cut for doing very little.

tom sez: “outsource manufacturing to places like China and Bangladesh”

What is wrong if workers earn jobs by being able to do them better than others?

Wal-Mart’s way of “charge for what it is worth, pay for the worth of the work” is is also a standard-of-living booster for Wal-Mart’s workers, many of whom other companies consider unemployable, and many of whom come from those wonderful downtown “small businesses” that pay $5.15 an hour and get much more than that at Wal-Mart. For the Wal-Mart workers who came from factories destroyed by unions, they are hundreds of dollars a year richer from getting to keep the dues money the union used to force them to give.

As Kimmie said, “and if you don�t like the Wal-Mart stores..DONT SHOP THERE!! “. If you think that Wal-Mart is really so bad, why waste time filming and promoting fictional movies that play only to people who are already ignorant haters? Why not start a better store instead? There are too many whiners, and not enough doers.

Let’s see how long your store lasts if you pay people according to their demands (loudest beggar gets paid most, so whine REAL LOUD!!!) and their life situation (I have trouble buying medicines since I purchased a brand new Ford Explorer. be FAIR and pay me more!!!!) instead of according to the effort they contribute to the store.

This web site and the efforts by anti-Wal-Mart unions are simply PATHETIC. 

I watched a show on fox news where they were debating whether wal-mart was good for America.  Two people hated wal-mart with a burning passion, and three people thought wal-mart had a positive effect on the economy.

The funny thing, is that the two VOCAL and OUTSPOKEN Wal-Mart haters who complain about how the company treats employees and the way it does business BOTH admitted to shopping at wal-mart!!!  That is SO funny, and it really epitomizes the lack of conviction and hypocrasy that flows so abundantly from Wal-Mart haters who have no better cause to work for with their free time than to try and kill a company that pays an average hourly wage almost double the minimum wage and gives employees 401(k)s, paid vacation, and paid personal time.  They lambaste Wal-Mart and then they go get a 5 dollar chocolate cream frappucino at Starbucks!!  LOL!!!  Too funny!

hypocrites...do something better with your time.

Well if it makes you feel any better Josh I don’t hate WM but I think they deserve a lot of bashing and I don’t shop there and I encourage others not to at least when they bring up the subject. I do encourage people to try and buy american made clothing and have off and on posted web sites of companies that do make clothing and not all are union by the way.  Since it’s the holiday season you can go to www.mypersonalstyle which is a search engine for a variety of american made clothing manufacturers. I have mention 2 jean companies in the past I’ll do it again here. Union Made Jeans which is a union shop and Pointer brand which is non-union for those who don’t like unions. The prices at either aren’t bad and Pointer brand are triple stitched. Anyway if people want to see such a revival or even if they just don’t want to visit overcrowded malls this is a good way to support american business. Happy Holidays.

To Josh in Parker CO:  Your first mistake was to watch a program on FOX News.  Your little story proves nothing.  If I were going to do a program, it wouldn’t be hard to “pre-screen” my guests with a questionaire...much the same way that lawyers select the exact jury they want.  All FOX had to do is find someone who is a critic of Wal-Mart, admits to shopping there, then trip them up on air with that fact.  Notice also that there were 2 “Wal-Mart haters” and 3 pro Wal-Mart guests.  Why not 2-2 or 3-3?

You make me laugh!  How come you conveniently forgot to mention Wal-Mart’s great health plan for “associates” as you were ticking off the benefits of Wal-Mart, Josh?  That was your second mistake.

Quit “Joshing me,” (pun intended).  Since you brought up Starbucks, let’s compare their health benefits to Wal-Mart’s.  I’ll put my money on Starbucks any time!  This was your third mistake.

That wasn’t you I saw tripping over other customers yesterday to get your $370 laptop at Wal-Mart, was it Josh?  Now I have to do “something better” with my time than respond to ridiculous posts from Wal-Mart lovers...shovel the driveway.  I’m up to the task though, because I’ve been in training shoveling all the knee-deep pro Wal-Mart B.S. that’s been piling up on this website.  Then I’m going to treat myself to “a 5 dollar chocolate cream frappucino at Starbucks!!”

Tom Boese
Field Producer - WI
Brave New Films

I feel that I should add my two cents to this discussion.

1. The UFCW and Wal-Mart Watch are impotent failures. Let’s list all the things that the UFCW and Wal-Mart Watch have accomplished.

A. In 10 years, the UFCW has been unable to organize a single Wal-Mart store.

B. Despite false claims made by the UFCW and Wal-Mart Watch, shoppers are still shopping at Wal-Mart.

C. Wal-Mart’s stock price is going up. Wal-Mart’s sales, profits and customer counts are at record highs.

D. Despite the claims that Wal-Mart is a horrible place to work, Wal-Mart gets an average of 12 applicants for each job.

E. Wal-Mart’s retail jobs pay an average of $9.68 an hour plus health, dental, life and disability insurance, 401K, profit sharing and store discounts. Hardly poverty compensation.

F. Wal-Mart added more than 100,000 new employees last year. How many new union jobs were created?

Read the following:

Non-Union Retailers Generate Greater Job Growth, Close Wage Gap

Released: November 20, 2002

“ In California, non-union retail wages will surpass union retail wages next year.
”
Washington, D.C. — Non-union jobs in the retail industry are increasing rapidly while union jobs are declining, and non-union workers are outpacing union members in wage growth and the number with health benefits, according to a new study by the Employment Policy Foundation.

In fact, union and non-union wages in the retail industry are nearing parity nationally, and non-union wages could be higher within 10 years, the study shows. In California, our most populous state, non-union wages will surpass union retail wages next year. In Florida, the gap could close in two years.

The foundation also found that union jobs are disappearing from the retail sector more rapidly than they are from the economy as a whole. Just 4.5 percent of retail workers belonged to unions last year, compared to 9.1 percent for the nation.

The study covered the period from 1996 to 2002. (Because of the lag time in reported government data, some data is only available through 2001.) The study looked at non-management jobs in the retail sector, including department stores, discount stores and grocery stores. It compared employment, wages and benefits between non-union and union members of the sector using monthly data from the federal government’s Current Population Survey, published by the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

The study shows that, while non-union jobs grew by more than 850,000, union jobs fell by almost 150,000. At the same time, overall earnings of non-union retail workers grew at a greater rate than did the earnings of union retail workers. Union members of the retail industry also experienced sharp declines in the number of workers with health insurance, while the number of non-union retail workers with health insurance increased.

“At a time when national attention is being drawn to the retail sector by the UFCW (United Food and Commercial Workers), we thought it was important to examine the underlying economic facts concerning workers in the retail industry,” said Ed Potter, president of the Employment Policy Foundation.

“Our economy badly needs jobs. This study makes evident that while there has been significant decline in the number of union retail jobs, the non-union sector is a job engine, with increasing pay and benefits,” he said.

Continued:

Job Growth

In the U.S. economy, no other major industry employs more individuals than retail. The retail sector provided full-time and part-time employment for more than 13.4 million people in 2001, an increase of 707,311 jobs since 1996. The second-largest industry, educational services, employed almost 3 million fewer individuals. The third-largest industry, construction, employs half as many people as retail.

Overall growth of the retail industry masks differences between retail employment for non-union and union workers. Union jobs in the retail sector fell between 1996 and 2001 by nearly 149,000, a 15 percent decline. In contrast, non-union employment in the retail industry grew by 7.38 percent over the six years — an increase of 856,655 jobs.

In California, retail job growth was robust. Between 1996 and 2001, union jobs increased by 17,173 jobs, or 10.2 percent. Over the same time period, non-union retail jobs increased about three times as fast — by nearly 29 percent, or 312,668 new jobs. That represents more than a third of the non-union retail job growth in the nation. In Florida, another populous state, union jobs in the retail sector increased by about 5,000, while the non-union portion of the retail sector created nine times as many jobs — more than 47,500 new positions.

Wage Growth

The study found that, contrary to conventional wisdom, the difference between earnings of union members and non-union workers in the retail sector is quite small. In 2001, union members earned an average of $464 per week, compared to $442 per week for non-union retail workers — a difference of 4.7 percent.

Analysis of data from 1996 to 2001 also shows that the wage difference is narrowing. If the current trend continues, non-union employees will earn more than union members in the retail sector by 2012.

In California, non-union retail workers had average wage increases each year of approximately 4.03 percent during the time studied. Union workers received wage increases around 1.48 percent a year for the same period. This means that non-union workers enjoyed 2.7 times greater average wage growth than those not in unions.

In Florida, average weekly earnings for union members of the retail industry were stagnant, actually declining by 0.5 percent. Non-union wages, on the other hand, grew by 4.7 percent on average each year from 1996-2001. Based on current trends, the wage gap may close by 2004.

Quality Jobs

The study also found that, in contrast to another common view that retail jobs are mainly minimum wage, the number of quality jobs is increasing rapidly for non-union retail workers and declining for union workers. The Employment Policy Foundation’s Job Quality Index defines quality jobs as those that pay above the median wage.

Among non-union employees from 1996-2001, the number of quality jobs increased to 7,043,829 from 5,770,119 — a 22 percent increase, or more than 1.27 million jobs. The number of quality jobs in union retail workplaces fell to 533,615 from 571,636 — a 6.7 percent decrease, or over 38,000 jobs. In the non-union sector, 3 out of 5 new jobs were quality jobs. By comparison, in unionized retail workplaces, 25 percent of the jobs lost were quality jobs.

Health Benefits

Unionized workers experienced a decrease in the number covered by health insurance, while the number of non-union retail employees with health benefits grew. Between 1996 and 2002, the number of unionized retail workers covered by health benefits decreased to 157,691 from 208,836 — a decline of almost 25 percent, or about 51,000 positions. Non-union retail workers covered by employer-provided health benefits increased to 6,666,761 from 6,191,647. This is a 7.7 percent increase, meaning that some 475,000 more Americans gained private health benefits from their non-union retail employment.

The UFCW and Wal-Mart Watch are impotent failures. How does it feel to spend tens of millions of hard earned union dues to help Wal-Mart grow? You guys have failed. You are a bunch of losers. Good job!

Nice contrast between the two “anti-Wal-Marters” above. One shows moderation (avoiding decending into hatred), and even offers solutions everyone might agree with. The other goes off on a Foxbashing tangent, and totally ignores Josh’s real point about the anti-walmarters on that TV show that were still shopping at Wal-Mart.

Fox did not have to go out of their way to find such anti-wal-marters. They are like the typical “community activist” who rallies against Wal-Mart opening.....and guess who shoes up the first day the Wal-Mart opens? Yes, that same “community activist”, hoping he is not seen by the rest of the “community activists” who flooded into that Wal-Mart as it opened that day.

And, no, Josh did not make a mistake on the health care plan. Many other pro-Wal-Marters have described it in detail already.

Looking at “Starbucks” and their health care plan (which IS better than Wal-Mart’s): Also look at how Starbuck’s starting pay is much lower than Wal-Mart worker starting pay. I guess the cost of the health care plan has to come from somewhere.....

Tom, where did you buy that shovel? What country was it made in?

Dear Larry in Elmira, NY:

I took your suggestion and went to mypersonalstyle.com.  I was looking for some winter clothes (jeans, sweaters, shirts, etc)

I selected apparel and then a company called ZebulonUSA.

www.zebulonusa.com

Here is some of what I found:

* Blue-jeans for $32-$36 per pair
* Boxer shorts for $17
* Polo shirts for $28 - $36
* Lowest price winter coat? $33

Here are some of the same pieces from TARGET’S website. (I didn’t use Wal-Mart due to obvious bias)

* Blue-jeans $12-$23 per pair
* Boxer shorts $4.50 - $15
* Polo shirts from $8.50 - $17
* Lowest price winter coat? $24

I just can’t justify spending all of that extra money to buy from Zebulon.  If they were competitive, i’d certainly give them a try.  Fact is, most people (myself included) need to stretch a buck.

American companies—UNION companies need to help their employers to be MORE productive, and MORE cost competitive than their overseas counterparts.

If I was a union employee i’d be very concerned if my company could not be cost-competitive. 

It happens in my industry.  Those of you who traveled in the 1980s and early 1990s remember flying on airplanes like the DC9, the 737-200, the Bac1-11, the Fokker 28, or Fokker 100… Those airplanes are gone and with them the high-paying union jobs that went with them. 

Who flies those routes now?  Young kids, fresh out of college, with little experience in so-called “regional-jets” working for companies that you might never have heard of such as Mesa Airlines, Chautauqua Airlines, Trans-States Airlines… and their airplanes are painted “US Airways Express, United Express, Northwest Airlink”. 

The unions have priced the american-worker out of the market.  It happened in the steel industry.  It happened in the automotive industry.  Now you know it’s happening in the airline industry (and I hope you’re as scared as I am to fly on “regional jets")… it is only natural that it happen in retail and grocery.

If the unions and the american manufacturers want to be competitive they have two choices:

1. They can become more efficient, more productive, and control costs better than their overseas counterparts.  Or…

2. They can start up their own store, sell their goods at their prices, and HOPE that there are enough folks like YOU out there who are willing to pay more to buy them.

Regards,
Dave

Tom:

I know you prefer watching the ultra left-wing liberal stations (which is fine), but the great thing about the media today is that you and I now have options and alternative media.  I don’t have to watch NBC or CBS (except for the football) if I don’t want to, and you don’t have to watch Fox.  The point is, that the two people Fox had on DESPISED wal-mart with a burning passion.

It was very evident.  The guy was so angry that I thought he was going to pop a blood vessel.  Yet they both admitted to shopping at WM when asked!!  This is common anti-Walmart hypocrasy.  Did you hear about the story where union nuts were protesting outside a Wal-Mart and then after the protest they went inside and bought some groceries?  It’s so funny. 

Secondly, watch the morning political shows on ABC/NBC/CBS/MSNBC and you are often lucky to get two conservatives for every 4 liberals.  So please don’t lecture me about fairness on TV shows.  The stations you watch are as bad or worse than Fox, they just tilt in a different direction.  Admittedly, they both tilt in opposite directions.  None is without bias.  But it’s incredibly elitist of you to think that your left-wing tv shows have an ounce more credibility than my fox shows. 

And while we are being smart---es Tom, I guess I should tell you that no, it wasn’t me you saw tripping for the computer.  There were major, news-making altercations at something like 5-20 Wal-Marts/Sam’s Clubs out of about 4,000 US locations.  That is less than one-half of one percent of all US locations. I walked out of my wal-mart untouched with a DVD player/recorder and a portable DVD player for $140.  So don’t make it seem like people got trampled at every single Wal-Mart location in the US.  Anyone who has a brain knows that this is not the case.  The media gets a hold of 5 troubling stories and those stories are REPEATED AND REPEATED AND REPEATED, making the problems seem more widespread than they really are.

And go ahead and treat yourself to that 5 dollar choc. cream frap, (I don’t blame you for wanting it) but remember when you do are being a hypocrite. 

PS

My overall compensation package is better at walmart than it would be at starbucks.  So when you go to starbucks you are voting with your pocketbook that starbucks treatment of employees is satisfactory, as is Wal-Mart’s.  I work with two people right now (one a support manager and another an hourly associate) that ABONDONED their jobs at Sbux to come to walmart because walmart was better.  Can’t say I worked with any starbucks employees that left walmart because starbucks offered better compensation. 

Dang, that was long-winded.  I’ll promise not to be so long-winded in the future if you will promise not to post distorted facts and lies that make no sense.  Deal?

I do the smart thing the morning after Thanksgiving......

I SLEEP IN!!!!

I have absolutely no desire whatsoever to camp out overnight at any store to save a few dollars on things I do not normally buy. There are sales from now until January at all the major retailers.

I have been a bad boy.  I visited the Walmart on State Street early Thanksgiving morning.  I knocked an old man out of line, but I managed to get one of the lap top computers for under $300 after taxes.  Great deal and a great store.

Just to let all of you know, the benefits that Wm has that you think are so GREAT aren’t.  I used to work for this company and can tell you that the health insurance is too high for most workers to afford and doesn’t cover very many preventive visits.  The dental covers even less.  The only good thing was the profit sharing, that was a nice amount to get.  I worked hard for that money so any and all of you people that haven’t worked for this company have no right to say how good it is.  I on the other hand have that RIGHT.  There is good and bad in every company and there will always be someone who tells.

Also, if they didn’t have these so called gret bargains there wouldn’t be angry people out there that are willing to fight over them.  If you are only going to have a certain amount of an item then you should say that for the first 50 or however many items you have will be able to get these items and maybe give the first people in line numbers so that everyone will know that they can either get or not get that item.

One more thing, I hate to say it but things will only get worse as Christmas gets closer.  T’is the season to act like idiots, I regret to say.

I hope that everyone has a safe and Happy Holiday.  Just remember what the true meaning of the holiday is.

Social-values driven online shopping -and a 20% revenue share to organizations that you choose (such as the Center for Community Ethics, United for a Fair Economy and other prolific organizations fighting to improve the quality and dignity of workers’ lives everywhere.)

Joe in Hays, KS

You’re not normally an advocate for violence or destruction, but burning down one or more BUILDINGS seems rational to you???

Seek help.  Before you hurt yourself or others.

Best Buy had a digital camera on sale yesterday for 189 dollars. My boss wanted one for his son so before he came to work he headed down there. He knew chances were slim that he would get one but he parked his car and got in the line that had over 200 people in it at 3:30A. When a fight broke out in the line before the store even opened he left.

Later in the day he tried stopping at Circuit City to check out an MP3 player in their ad. When he asked about it the employee laughed at him and said they were gone less then 5 minutes after the store opened and people were punching each other to get them.

On the front page of the local news paper an over head shot of the hundreds of people standing in the check out lines at one of the walmarts. The caption? It read hundreds wait patiently to check out with the great deals on Black Friday.

Sounds to me like the good, the bad and the ugly were all out yesterday morning and they weren’t all at Wallmart stores. The sad thing is if it happens at walmart it’s news worthy if it happens anywhere else it isn’t. I worked at ToysRUs long enough to know if the customers want something on Black friday they will do what ever they can to get it. I saw many fights over stupid toys. I saw two ladies get in a fight that ended with both going to the hospital over teenage mutant ninja turtles. You can not blame ignorant customers on Walmart they shop everywhere.

I have worked for almost 50 years.

I am 62 years old and have worked for walmart only 5 years.

The other jobs i worked at sold out or moved out of town and left all employees out in the cold, with nothing.

If i would have went to work for walmart 30 years ago i would be able to retire with plenty of money.

Working only 40 hrs a week all year i will make over $30,000 this year, not bad at all.

My other benefits include, health insurance for myself for around $400.00 this year-- 401k and profit sharing all paid by walmart-- and sick hrs that build up, also life ins---and disability ins at a very affordable price.

Also we have a bonus that we have to earn, however in 5 years i have earned around $8000.00.

Walmart is a large company with many different jobs, it’s up to each person on what they want to do, or how much they want to make.

Remember any new job you get, you will start at the bottom and work your way up, it’s up to you and only you, on how far you want to go in the company.

Thanks. and have a nice weekend.

Holiday Sales Off to a Lukewarm Start

By ANNE D’INNOCENZIO (AP Business Writer)
From Associated Press

November 26, 2005 9:57 PM EST

NEW YORK - The official holiday shopping season appears to have gotten off to a lukewarm start, according to results announced Saturday by a national research group that monitors retail sales. Wal-Mart Stores Inc. was one bright spot in the crowd, reporting its sales exceeded expectations.

According to ShopperTrak RCT Corp., which tracks total sales at more than 45,000 retail outlets, the overall sales on Friday were relatively unchanged compared to a year ago, despite heavier discounting and expanded hours that drew a surge of shoppers to stores in the early morning hours.
The Chicago-based research group reported total sales Friday at $8 billion, down 0.9 percent from a year ago.
“Although the Black Friday number is a bit flat, this may be misleading as we’re comparing this to a very strong 2004 performance,” said Michael P. Niemira, chief economist and director of research for the International Council of Shopping Centers, in a statement.

He added that while Black Friday - so named because the post-Thanksgiving surge of shoppers supposedly pushes stores into profitability for the year - is important to merchants, it’s not always the best indicator of consumer shopping patterns for the remainder of the season.
In 2004, the Friday after Thanksgiving was the second busiest day of the holiday shopping season, according to ShopperTrak; the busiest day was the Saturday before Christmas.

In a challenging but improving economy, the nation’s retailers plied shoppers Friday with heavier discounting and earlier openings than a year ago. There were also a number of newcomers to the early bird special scene, including Disney Stores and Wal-Mart’s Sam’s Clubs.
At Wal-Mart, the deep discounts and expanded hours appeared to have paid off.
The world’s largest retailer said Saturday that it expects to post a solid 4.3 percent gain in same-store sales for November, helped by better-than expected sales Friday. That’s at the midpoint of its growth forecast of 3 to 5 percent. The sales results cover the four-week period through Friday.

Same-store sales are sales at stores opened at least a year and are considered the best indicator of a retailer’s health.
Wal-Mart and the nation’s other major retailers are to report their final November sales results Thursday.
Wal-Mart said in a recorded telephone message Saturday that business at its namesake stores and Sam’s Clubs during the company’s six-hour early bird special event exceeded company projections. The company reported “good steady traffic” throughout the stores even after the deals ended.
The best-selling items were computers, dolls, portable DVD players and video games, the company said.
“We were very pleased. We opened early, and people came to us first,” said Gail Lavielle, a Wal-Mart spokeswoman. She said about 10 million people jammed the stores during the six-hour special event.

After stumbling last holiday season by not offering enough discounts, Wal-Mart made an aggressive push to win over shoppers early this season. It launched a holiday ad campaign on Nov. 1, a few weeks earlier than a year ago. And on the day after Thanksgiving, it offered deeper discounts and threw open its doors at 5 a.m, an hour earlier than a year ago.

Isn’t it funny how the right wing was all pro-buy American and now they are buy Chinese?

They are creating more hurdles with credit card debt, and backruptcy is harder to claim.Beacuse of black friday and the Zombies demanding laptops, they will only clamp the noose tighter.

THe Chinese government is like America’s drug dealer, and we are addcited to thier nasty pieces of cheap plastic.

Fight Wal-Mao’s misuse of immenent domaine Joe, just Like a real Patriot would. ROCK ON BROTHER!

Tom in Menominee Falls wrote:

“ Congratulations Robert Springer!  The first paragraph in your last post, was the first intelligent thing I’ve seen you acknowledge.  I guess there’s not much to do there in northwestern Arkansas except shop at, defend, and perhaps even work for Wal-Mart. “

Too bad, that you were not intelligent enough to see that this was written tongue in cheek.  One thing that there is to do here in NW Arkansas, is to create businesses that are so successful that rogue film makers get a chance to try to knock them down.  Who are those Arkansas people who have nothing to do?  Try the Waltons, the Tysons, and J.B. Hunt.  Another person from Arkansas is Jerry Jones, owner of the Dallas Cowboys football team.  How does your successful life stack up against theirs?

During a shopping trip to the Saginaw Bay Road Walmart Supercenter, I was disappointed to leave without the item I had planned to purchase.  The store had run out of an advertised item before 5:15AM.  There was no quantity available per store stated in their ad.

I thought that I would be able to obtain a raincheck because of the Pricing and Advetising of Consumer Items Act 449 of 1976 states:

445.355 Advertising availability of consumer item at sale price, special price, or reduced price; dates and quantity available; requirements for advertising at specific price through media; written guarantee to deliver; providing similar item; holding item for delivery; exceptions.

Sec. 5.

(1) A person shall not knowingly advertise the availability of a consumer item for sale at retail at a sale or special price or as being reduced in price by an amount or proportion unless the advertisement includes the dates that item is available, or the quantity available at the advertised price together with information that the item is available at that price only as long as the advertised quantity lasts. A limitation on the quantity available of a consumer item per customer shall be clearly disclosed in an advertisement of the consumer item.

(2) If a consumer item is advertised at a specific price through the media which is not indicated to be a special, sale, or reduced price the advertiser shall do one of the following:

(a) Make the consumer item available at the advertised price for not less than 5 days after the date the consumer item was last advertised. If the item is not available for this period of time the requirements of subsection (3) shall apply. The advertiser shall not be required to make the consumer item available nor fulfill the requirements of subsection (3) if the unavailability of the consumer item is due to a governmental action, a plant closing, or an act of God and if the specific cause of the unavailability of the consumer item is posted conspicuously for the review of the consumer.

(b) Indicate in the advertisement the dates the consumer item is available at the advertised price. If the item is not available for the period of time indicated, the requirements of subsection (3) shall apply.

(c) Indicate in the advertisement the quantity available at the advertised price together with the information that the consumer item is available at the advertised price only as long as the stated quantity lasts.

(3) If an advertisement under this section does not state the quantity of the consumer item available, and if an item of merchandise cannot be sold at the advertised price throughout the advertised period of sale, the advertiser shall make available to the customer a written guarantee to deliver under the advertised conditions the consumer item at a future date stated in the guarantee, or upon notification of the customer by the merchant. If the advertised consumer item cannot be obtained to satisfy the condition of the guarantee, the advertiser may provide a similar consumer item of equal or greater monetary value. The notification of availability shall take place not more than 90 days after the guarantee is given. After the notice of availability is given, the merchant shall hold the consumer item for delivery to the customer for not less than 7 days, except the merchant need hold the consumer item for only 2 days if it is a perishable item.

(4) This section shall not apply to baked goods, fresh fruit, and fresh vegetables.

History: 1976, Act 449, Eff. Jan. 1, 1978 ;-- Am. 1979, Act 193, Imd. Eff. Dec. 21, 1979
Popular Name: Scanner Law
Popular Name: Item Pricing Act

I went to the service desk to obtain a raincheck.  I was told by the clerks that they do not issue rainchecks.

I asked to see a manager, a gentleman who identified himself only as Brian, the store manager, also told me that the store doesn’t issue rainchecks.  I pointed out that they were in violation of the Michigan Item Pricing Act and he told me that the disclaimer in there raincheck policy allows them to not have to issue rainchecks, and I would have to call the corporate office. 

I called Walmart corporate offices who told me that Brian was not the name of the the store manager.  They told me they would contact the store manager and have him call me.

I have also filed a complaint with the Michigan Attorney General’s office.  On Monday I will be filing a complaint with the Saginaw County Prosecuting Attorney.

I feel that this is an important issue affecting not only myself, but every consumer in this state.  Michigan has historically had very strong consumer protection laws.  I do not believe a corporation, no matter how large, is above the law.

GEE NICK wrote:

“ I have been a bad boy.  I visited the Walmart on State Street early Thanksgiving morning.  I knocked an old man out of line, but I managed to get one of the lap top computers for under $300 after taxes.  Great deal and a great store. “

Sorry to break this to you GEE, but the sale was the day after Thanksgiving!!  Think you knocked that guy over for nothing.  And, wasn’t it nice that you could get such a great price, even the day before the sale?

The ad specifically states “while supplies last”

I can’t believe that so many people have lost their perspective on what Thanksgiving is about.  Being thankful for what you have, not what you are going to get.  For a bunch of people screaming about gas prices being high and not having enough money for food, gas, etc.....they sure do spend a lot of money on things that aren’t that important. Like laptops.

Addition to previous comment:  Wal-mart handled the laptop sale all wrong...they should have known if they took the computers into a crowd of people, instead of letting the people go to the computers, that they were asking for trouble.

“While Supplies Last” in the ad is irrelevent in Michigan.
They must state the quantity available per store, or issue rainchecks.

A person shall not knowingly advertise the availability of a consumer item for sale at retail at a sale or special price or as being reduced in price by an amount or proportion unless the advertisement includes the dates that item is available, or the quantity available at the advertised price together with information that the item is available at that price only as long as the advertised quantity lasts. A limitation on the quantity available of a consumer item per customer shall be clearly disclosed in an advertisement of the consumer item.

Yes, they MUST state the QUANTITY available at the advertised price in Michigan.

January 2, 2002 consent decree requires Circuit City to specify quantity available in advertising or to provide rainchecks to

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/c_city1_42265_7.htm

MICHIGAN CONSUMER PROTECTION ACT
Act 331 of 1976

Sec. 3

(h) Advertising goods or services with intent not to supply reasonably expectable public demand, unless the advertisement discloses a limitation of quantity in immediate conjunction with the advertised goods or services.

America was built on the WalMart phlisopypy, capitolism at it’s best. If you don’t like it, shop somewhere else. If you don’t like working there, work somewhere else.

Brian

I don’t hate Walmart but I am very angry at them right now.  I have fibromyalgia and it’s very hard for me to stand for long periods of time.  However, my 8 yr old grandson wanted a big Hummer radio controlled vehicle for Christmas.  That’s all he wanted.  No way could I afford $80 for one.  When I saw Walmart was going to have them at $20 I was thrilled!  Never been shopping the day after Thanksgiving My daughter and I got in line at 3am.  Had a good time joking around with the other people, the firemen that brought us hot chocolate.  Walmart employees passed out maps of the store, where all the special priced items were located.  I found “$20 Hummer”, the letter corresponding to it and located it on the map.  The doors opened, went right to it, got one.  Everyone was getting those Hummers and Jeeps.  I even picked up a Jeep for him too. Went to the checkout lane where my total came out way too high.  I told the cashier the Hummer and Jeep were supposed to be on special for $20, but she said they were ringing up at $79.97.  Took the Jeep off and kept the Hummer.  I got outside to the lobby and went back in.  Explained to them that I went right where it said they were, showed them the map.  This guy sheepishly says “Were there any others there?” I went over there to look, my daughter stayed with the cart, and there were two small stacks of small plastic Jeeps, no Hummers.  They weren’t on special for $20, but regular price.  Yet, right next to them, halfway down the aisle and stacked high, were the big ones.  I went back and told the guy what was there, and left.  I then went to another store and bought a similar vehicle, and paid $49 for it.  Same size, same company.  I took the Hummer back to Walmart.  I imagine it’ll be a very long time before I go back into Walmart.  I think it was a case of ‘bait and switch’.  Which almost worked in my case.  My friend was in the Supercenter in the next town yesterday evening and she said there were about 20 to 30 carts lined up and everyone of them had one of those big Hummers or Jeeps in it so I don’t think it was just me who understood.  I know alot of people were getting them when I got mine.

What I don’t like about Walmart is they’re just too big.  They’ve run other stores out of alot of towns in our area.  We still have a Kmart in our small town, but for buying toys that’s about it. 

I have several relatives working at Walmart who are looking for other jobs.  In a town this size it’s hard to find other work.  This Walmart works you just under what it takes to be considered full time so they don’t have to pay you benefits such as insurance and such.  There are only so many of those jobs in this store you can work yourself up to also.  One of the women who had been there for years as general manager quit recently because she was so put out at how Walmart was treating it’s employees.

There was one young man who was an employee at Walmart.  Loved to have him wait on me, he was such a nice guy and always had a smile.  He was killed in a car accident and the other employees wanted to take up a collection for his family to help pay his funeral expenses.  The managers at Walmart had a fit and wouldn’t allow it!  Some of the employees called the corporate offices and were told there was nothing they could do about it.  That was my first disillusionment about Walmart.

No, I don’t hate Walmart and I won’t say I won’t ever go back there.  I just don’t like them very much at all and I won’t go in there any more than I just have to.  I’ll go to Kmart even if it costs me a little more money. 

It’s not just Walmart who screws their employees over though......it’s all of them.  It’s corporate greed. 

I don’t know that a union would make much of a difference either.  My husband retired after 30 years with the same company, belonged to the Diesel Workers Union.  At one time the unions worked for the employee, but anymore I think they’re just yesmen for the companies.  Maybe I’m wrong.  I know the Diesel Worker’s Union isn’t worth much anymore.

Tom Boese
Field Producer - WI
Brave New Films

How much is going down the shit pot? (With your Idiotic films)

What the hell did the unions do for workers at GM? Oh! they were idiots all the way? What have you done for workers anywhere else? Show us an instance where you actually have helped?

“Corporate Greed” is a euphemism for Middle Class Greed.
After a lifetime, spent on nothing, only to realize you’ve got nothing, yes, that feels like an enormous conspiracy.

Buying a Mustang, when working at a front desk ought to tell you that? I’m going down the same path.

Help me, Please!!!!!

Great comments by all.

For the record...I did not shop at WalMart on Black Friday, nor any store.  I chose to stay home and it was nice. My kid does not know the difference between “sharing a popular toy that all the kids have to have” and just plane sharing time with Dad.

Happy Holidays everyone,

Don Eduardo

Michael Boise:  The fact that you asked for help means you are on the road to recovery!  This is one of the basic tenets of AA.  Maybe there is a group you can join like Consumers Anonymous”.

Speaking of consumers...I hope you like that cheap new laptop you got from Wal-Mart Robert Springer. I noticed the price you gave is substantially lower than any advertised prices I’ve seen for them.  Did Wal-Mart give you an additional discount because of all the PR work you’ve been doing for them? Maybe you can go with Michael to Consumers Anonymous.  “Hi...my name is Robert, and I’m addicted to “always low prices at Wal-Mart.”

Maybe another answer is to do a Google search on the definition of hyper-consumerism.  Don Eduardo is probably the closest anyone on this weblog is to the REAL meaning of the holiday season!  Don gets it!

Tom Boese
Field Producer - Wisconsin
Brave New Films

bfc in Sherwood, AR:  Another person from AR...I swear this site has become a magnet for people in Arkansas...especially northwestern AR.  Didn’t the people at Wal-Mart headquarters teach you anything bfc?  If you are going to make a case for “capitolism,” at least know how to spell it...that would be capitalism.

Tom Boese
Field Producer - Wisconsin
Brave New Films

Tom. There is nothing wrong with getting the best deal. If you want to pay way too much for things, be our guest. There is no “corporate greed” where Wal-Mart is concerned. Paying people the value of the work they do is not greedy, and it is certainly very far from greedy to avoid overcharging people.

If Wal-Mart was a greedy company, they would have gone the way of Montgomery Wards. Greedy companies cannot succeed, because worker and customers will shy away from them.

“Consumerism” itself is a mythical concept. We are living in a material world, and have always “consumed” material.

Bfc in Sherwood said it best.

jc:  Once again you are living proof of my point.  Greed is greed...period!  There is no distinction between greedy corporations or greedy consumers.

If Karl Marx were alive today, he’d probably have to revise his quote: “Religion is the opiate of the masses.” Thanks to Wal-Mao… it’s become: “Everyday low prices is the opiate of the masses.”

Tom Boese
Field Producer - Wisconsin
Brave New Films

You are living proof of the intellectual vacuousness of the anti-Wal-Mart movement when you use Karl Marx as any sort of source of authority on anything (even using his quote in which Marx affirmed his own personal bigotry against those who did not have his religion.... a favorite of certain bigots who share Marx’s own bigotry).

jc:  Don’t get your cheap Wal-Mart underwear all in a knot!  You’re making some pretty wild leaps in your assumptions.

I don’t consider myself to be a follower of Karl Marx, nor am I a bigot.  It was merely a quote.  Get over it--you nimrod!

Tom Boese
Field Producer - Wisconsin
Brave New Films

Tom,

You seem to be a very angry person.  The general tone of your posts offensive, insulting, and sophomoric.  (Is name-calling really the best way to get your point across?)

Perhaps you would have better luck converting the masses if you calmed down and gave rational debate a try.

Friday November 25,2005 the Garland, TX Walmart #1055 had
50 of the HP lap top computers for thier sale, the big sale should have started at 5:00 AM but the managers of this store passed out tickets for the lap top computers at 1:00 AM so they really start the sale at 1:00 AM , 4 hours early, this was very unfair to us who showed up eary for this sale only to find out the computers sold out at 1:00 AM Friday November 25,2005 when they should been on sale at 5:00 AM.

No, the sale did not start at 01:00, it started at 05:00.  In an attempt to curb the stupidity of people mauling each other they passed out tickets to the first one’s in line.  They could have just waited and handed these out as they walked in the store at 05:00 but it would have had the same result.

Gladys Samples:  Welcome the unreal world of Wally World!  Maybe you should consider spending your hard earned money at another retailer this season.

Dave in Phoenix, AZ:  I’m just puzzled why you and all the other Wal-Mart lovers like jc and Robert Springer come to an unabashedly anti-Wal-Mart site like Walmartwatch and keep making your ridiculous posts.  Why don’t you all hang out on Wal-Mart’s homepage and continue your lovefest with each other?

Tom Boese
Field Producer - Wisconsin
Brave New Films

Well Tom,

If it were up to you and your Cronies Wal-Mart would disappear from the map.

Since I like to choose where I spend my hard-earned money, I figure I can spare a few minutes a day making sure that YOU dont get to choose FOR me.

One thing though to keep in mind when choosing the cheaper alternative David is quality--at least some of the time. I did mention Pointer Brand jeans (the non union shop) that triple stitches its seams. They are made to be durable.
You might want to check them out.
Also in this regard I mentioned in the past (it was a few months ago) about a hearing of a house subcommittee I saw on C-Span at that time. Among the witnesses that came before the subcommittee was a man from Georgia (I believe) who represented a cotton growers association. The man testified on the quality of many foreign made textiles (and these are from manufacturers who import lots of cotton from the United States) and that they tended to stint on material--or what he called ‘thread count’. Sometimes a cheaper price means a cheaper product--one that will have to be replaced sooner rather than later. In any case whether you like that argument or not I still say that buying american made products is an investment you make in your own country and one that may be of great benefit to future generations of american citizens.

Dave in Phoenix, AZ:  That’s not quite right.  While it may be the fantasy for some people that “Wal-Mart would disappear from the map,” I think the majority of us are rational enough to know that may never happen.

What organizations like Wakeup Walmart and Walmartwatch are about, is reforming Wal-Mart’s ways.  We don’t say they don’t have a right to be in business, but rather advocate a more level playing field. Let’s get rid of the government subsidies for Wal-Mart and all big corporations.  Let’s see who can really compete on their own.  People like our own former Governor Tommy Thompson worked to get people off welfare in our state, but as a Republican in the Bush administration, what did he do to end corporate welfare?

Among the many things we are trying to tell Wal-Mart, the first and foremost one is to learn how to be a better corporate citizen.  Wal-Mart needs to respect the wishes and culture in the local communities they now intimidate and bully.  If you doubt this, I’ll give you Jefferson, Wisconsin as but one example.  Twice the city Common Council said “NO” to Wal-Mart and voted down a land annexation request.  Do you think this meant anything to Wal-Mart?  The pro Wal-Mart forces in town instead forced a recall election this past September and removed one of the city council members who voted against Wal-Mart.  He was replaced with a Wal-Mart shill and there will soon be a 3rd vote taken to bring Wal-Mart to Jefferson.  If this isn’t bullying, what would you call it Dave, jc, Robert?

We also say to Wal-Mart:  Stop running your glitzy ads trying to convince us what a great company you are.  Put that money into better healthcare for your employees and get them off state Medicaid programs.  Actions speak a lot louder than flashy words and images.

Tom Boese
Field Producer - Wisconsin
Brave New Films

OK Tom lets really set the record straight.........

What you are really mad about is CHANGE, something us Wal-Martians are taught early on not to resist. But reality is that in this world Change is the only thing you can count on & your invalid attacks on Wal-Mart ONLY, instead of all companies that don’t use your narrow minded way of business(Union Trade) show that you my friend can’t handle CHANGE or the TRUTH.

I suppose you could turn my words around any way you see fit but the end result is the same. You need to learn from the decades of failures that Unions have created and realize that the Unions Chiefs are equal if not worse than the BAD WALLY EXECS that you claim are getting richer & greedier. After all why would some one who is half way intelligent want to give their “VOICE” to some one else?

Wait!!!, I Know!!!.....so the Unions can get richer and bully others around!!! No thanks I can speak for my self THANK YOU!!!
Get off of your soapbox and get the facts straight. As the saying goes “Don’t criticize someone until you have walked a mile in his shoes.”
I have been on both sides, have you??
CONTINUED

With all the millions of dollars in subsidies Wal-Mart gets from the government, they *could* show their gratitude by making their healthcare plan affordable for their full-time employees. But they don’t, and it’s not, and their workers end up going on welfare and/or food stamps. Instead, Wal-Mart uses the money to spread all over the country, picking up new employees, who also cannot afford healthcare. These then turn to the government, who will, in turn, give them yet more American tax dollars.

They use our tax dollars to open their stores, and they use our tax dollars to pay for their workers’ healthcare, and they use the profits reaped from abusing our tax dollars to open sweatshops (and a shop with barbed wire around it and padlocks on the doors that stays open for ten to thirteen hours per day *IS* a sweatshop, no matter what the workers are paid) in Mexico.

Though it may have started as a textbook example of free enterprise, today Wal-Mart lives off of the public dole. That’s not capitalism; it’s called “cheating the system.”

As Stated by Larry in Ekmira, NY....

“ In any case whether you like that argument or not I still say that buying American made products is an investment you make in your own country and one that may be of great benefit to future generations of American citizens. “

This is the main reason why I look for the MADE IN THE U.S.A. on labels and why my husband buys American made cars.....The investment we make to this country and the ideals we cherish so much.

“Well Tom,

If it were up to you and your Cronies Wal-Mart would disappear from the map.

Since I like to choose where I spend my hard-earned money, I figure I can spare a few minutes a day making sure that YOU dont get to choose FOR me.”

Well said, Dave in Phoenix, AZ!

CONTINUED

-In my 16yrs with Wally I have worked with hundreds of fantastic people. I can’t say the same for the UNION years, what a joke.
-I have made an excellent living starting @ $4.85hr to my present $18.54hr while still doing the same job that I was originally hired for.
While my Dad continues to make less than me with his GRAND OL’ UNION. After 33yrs what a joke.
-As far as Health Care goes mine is outstanding, my Dad’s well not so good. You see I have had to help him, looks like the UNION CHIEF has been slacking lately, you know standing in parking lots and complaining. Instead of adjusting to change they(the unions) want me to feel sorry that they have lost members and their dues are almost dry. PLEASE!!! Talk about Greed!!!
- I have owned 3 homes and never once had to look for a hand-out. Never been late with a bill and best of all I have been blessed with a caring family(WAL-MART that is) who continues to do GOOD by the GOLDEN RULE. Let’s see who gave what 1st after 9/11, after the floods, after the hurricanes. WALMART to the RESCUE AGAIN. And not one Union made it there on time. Sorry I forgot some one had to man the parking lots, put dead trees on my windshield & mailbox, complain on the internet and media.

Unions had their day, back when I could get lung cancer & a number of other deadly diseases from working in the Coal Mines or that disgusting factory job. TIMES HAVE CHANGED STOP LOOKING FOR THE HAND OUTS AND START TREATING OTHERS LIKE YOU CLAIM YOU WANT WAL-MART TOO.

GIVE OTHER COMPANIES A CHANCE FOR EQUALITY. THEY MOSTLY LONG TO BE LIKE US. Next time LIVE the facts before you decide to PREACH them.

Thank You, Kevin Smith
A Proud American, who knows the value of the dollar just like the companies of days gone by who now reside in foreign land. What happened to the Union Leaders of those companies??? At least “MY” company is headquartered here, Proudly!!!
Thanks Again to this Great Country, not you, for the ability to enjoy FREEDOM OF SPEACH!!!

Tom in Menomonee Falls, Wisconsin wrote:

“ Speaking of consumers...I hope you like that cheap new laptop you got from Wal-Mart Robert Springer. I noticed the price you gave is substantially lower than any advertised prices I’ve seen for them.  Did Wal-Mart give you an additional discount because of all the PR work you’ve been doing for them? Maybe you can go with Michael to Consumers Anonymous.  “Hi...my name is Robert, and I’m addicted to “always low prices at Wal-Mart.”

First off, I did not buy a ‘cheap’ laptop!!!  In fact, I didn’t even go to the Black Friday sale.  And, I don’t need to go to Consumers Anonymous, because I have amassed enough money, by watching my spending habits, to be able to retire at age 59.

As for Micheal, I would suggest a money management councelor or something like that and learn to spend within his means and save for the future as well.

I realize that because you are a PR agent for the union, you think that everyone that disagrees with you must be some kind of an agent for Wal-Mart.  This is a delusion that you may need help with.

I don’t know your age, but I would guess that you are still a young man.  If that is so, you may be in for some suprises in your future, if you continue your current thinking.

Tom in Menomonee Falls, Wisconsin wrote:

“ The pro Wal-Mart forces in town instead forced a recall election this past September and removed one of the city council members who voted against Wal-Mart.  He was replaced with a Wal-Mart shill and there will soon be a 3rd vote taken to bring Wal-Mart to Jefferson.  If this isn’t bullying, what would you call it Dave, jc, Robert? “

Can you please tell me, how these pro Wal-Mart Forces, forced the citizens to vote for removal of the city council member who was anti Wal-Mart?  How does any company control a city council?  And, if Wal-Mart gets its store after all of this underhanded coversion, who will make the citizens shop there, if they really don’t want it?

By the way, have you ever been to NW Arkansas?  If not, I think you should visit a place, before you talk ill about it and it’s people.  I was born and raised in Wisconsin (Kenosha and Marinette) and lived there until I was 46, so, I know about Wisconsin.  Now, I live in NW Arkansas and it beats Wi. hands down.  Maybe that is why you are so angry, because you live in that high tax state and have to experience the problems that causes.

Tom in Menomonee Falls - And, just think, if you shopped at Wal-Mart, maybe you could have saved enough to afford a snow-blower instead of having to use that shovel.  I know snow shoveling makes one angry, I don’t have to worry about that anymore, we hardly ever get any snow to speak of, here in Arkansas.  I also know that it affects the thinking ability when people are subjected to a temp. that goes down to -20 degrees or below.

holly hanks zez: “With all the millions of dollars in subsidies Wal-Mart gets from the government”

Can you name one of these subsidies? One instance where Wal-Mart receives money from the government?

holly sez: “(and a shop with barbed wire around it and padlocks on the doors that stays open for ten to thirteen hours per day *IS* a sweatshop, no matter what the workers are paid)”

This is a bizarre criterion for a sweatshop. Using your definition you just gave, an airport is a sweatshop for airport workers, and a car impound lot is a sweatshop for those that work there. They have barbed wire, padlocks, and are open for long hours. Many other workplaces where there is security can also come to mind (a prison, in regards to the prison guards). Your definition does not make sense.

Robert Springer:  I know not everyone in Arkansas is as dense as you because Yes-- I did spend 4 days down there shuttling between Little Rock and a tiny little place near the Bull Shoals dam.

You said: “I also know that it affects the thinking ability when people are subjected to a temp. that goes down to -20 degrees or below.” I think you got that exactly right.  That’s yet another difference between you and I, Robert.  I’ve adapted to the cold climate, while your brain still hasn’t thawed out after living in AK all these years.

You said: “ And, just think, if you shopped at Wal-Mart, maybe you could have saved enough to afford a snow-blower instead of having to use that shovel.” You REALLY are dense--nobody starts a snowblower here for less than 3 inches of light fluffy snow.  And for the record, I have 2 snowblowers, neither of which was purchased at your favorite store.

You said: “Can you please tell me, how these pro Wal-Mart Forces, forced the citizens to vote for removal of the city council member who was anti Wal-Mart?” Why?  Remember--your brain still hasn’t thawed.  Maybe you should spend some time in Jefferson like I have.

You said:  “because I have amassed enough money...” I guess it’s always about amassing more money when it comes to Wal-Mart and its shareholders.  How much is enough Robert?

Tom Boese
Field Producer - Wisconsin
Brave New Films

Tom in Menomonee Falls, WI - you said, “I did spend 4 days down there shuttling between Little Rock and a tiny little place near the Bull Shoals dam.”.  Then, you have not been to NW Arkansas.  You have visited the center of the state, which is nothing like NW Arkansas.

As for “ I’ve adapted to the cold climate, while your brain still hasn’t thawed out after living in AK all these years.”, That is the difference between us, my brain has indeed thawed in this warm climate, yours is still frozen.

You wrote, “And for the record, I have 2 snowblowers, neither of which was purchased at your favorite store.” Also, for the record, Wal-Mart is not my ‘favorite’ store.  It is just one of many stores at which I shop.  I get most of my groceries at Aldis and shop at Target, Big Lots, Freds, Harbor Freight Tools, Walgreens, Deals, Dollar General, Brahms, Lowes, Home Depot and other stores that are local and you may never have heard of.

As for the citizens of Jefferson, they will get what they want in the end.  Either they will vote out their city council members or they will leave them in.  They will use that Wal-Mart store or they will avoid it and it will close its doors.  They control things ultimately.

How much is enough, you ask?  I have answered this before, but, I will say it again.  Money is the measure of success in our nation and it also provides security.  Put a ‘limit’ on it and you put a limit on success and security.  It is the successful people who cause this society to survive and move forward.  Money, allows people to start businesses and employ people and the more money, the larger the business can be and thus, the more people it can employ.  The reason most mom and pop stores fail, is because they don’t have enough money to compete.  Also, the reason we have ‘poor’ people in this country, is that they lack ‘money’ and must draw upon those who do have money.  Money is the fuel that drives the economic engine of the country.

By the way, I haven’t seen your answer to the question, “Did the Greenwald film employ union workers?”, yet.

I am another person opposed to Wal-Mart’s business practices.  In my opinion, they are very anti-worker, and have ruined the economic structure of small towns. 

However, despite my opposition to the store and their practices, I find no comfort in the posts of members and contributors to this website, and often the petty news articles that are featured and baseless blame that is placed on Wal-Mart.  Yes, it is dispicable that people are trampling each other for cheap merchandise.  Is it the store’s fault?  Personally, I don’t think.  It’s irresponsible consumerism and assanine behavior on the part of the customers.

So, who should be criticized?  The customers for being disgustingly consumeristic, or the store for providing the outlet for a repulsive show of America’s economic culture?  These are the kinds of things that should be discussed on a website for political action - not bickering back and forth with “ignorant” people who have a differing opinion.  If Wal-Mart Watch and the people active in it and the labor movement want to make a difference, ignore “trolls” and focus on real issues.  Team up and show your opposition why they are wrong, don’t spend your time berating them and sinking down to their level. 

I really want to participate and be active in the anti Wal-Mart circle, but so far I can’t find anyone who will stop reacting and simply act.

Brandon---the great battles waged over the laptops--let’s call it the laptop wars are an example of a cynical marketing strategy aimed at bringing flocks of consumers to their stores.
That there wasn’t nearly enough of these particular laptops to go around to satisfy all these consumers willing to stand in lines for hours with nothing but this one obsession in their heads--if this is what you meant I would say you’re right--makes you wonder about what we might call a customer also. It is all oneupmanship. WM trying to one up their competitors on the so called most important shopping day of the year. And the consumer (at least a few of them) willing to beat up their fellow consumer for the right of ownership.
As far as your other complaint. I am also anti WM. But this is a blog and blogs by their nature are a way for people to react. It’s also a free country and people have the right to hold opinions that we might not agree with--that we would consider wrong.

Larry,
I completely agree with you in terms of what you have to say over the “laptop wars.”
I guess I need to restate my point from before - The problem with this blog is that people who are on the side of anti Wal-Mart activity are spending too much time bantering back and forth like children with people who support Wal-Mart.  That is why I am reluctant to support Wal-Mart Watch and the people that participate in it (the site).  There isn’t enough thinking going on, only bickering.  I understand the nature of a blog is to vent with like-minded individuals, but it seems to me (if the aforementioned definition/description of blogging holds true) that like minded contact would evolve into progress and ideas, not childish arguing with the opposition.  I would like to see people on this site rise above the people that belittle them instead of sinking to their level.

OUR WALMART EXPERIENCE

11/25/05

Like many shoppers on this day called “Black Friday”, my neighbor and I decided we would venture out early to Wal-Mart in hopes of purchasing the famously advertised notebook computer.  This item was advertised for one
price in our sales paper and a different price on the internet for our local stores.  This was also pointed out on our local Houston news station.  My neighbor and I did our homework researching the specs. for the model advertised. We determined it was a good deal given either price and thought
if we arrived early in the morning we should be able to purchase the items.  The Wal-Mart we selected was #5287 at 21150 Kuykendahl Road in Spring, Texas.  It is a 24 hr store so we were able to wait inside.  There were few
people there when we arrived at 2:30 am and the sale was not scheduled to start until 5:00 am.  We were actually part of the first five people to gather in a line in front of the produce area.  While we waited we chatted with an associate named Kat; given our line status we felt confident we would be successful with our planned purchase.
After about 15 minutes we realized store management had a seemingly dysfunctional planned method of carrying out the morning sale process. Instead of forming an orderly line like other stores such as electronic stores, they had a long rope lined with shopping carts in front. The rope stretched across the whole width of the store - from the grocery section all the way over to the merchandise section.  A large number of people started standing and forming crowds behind the entire rope area before 4am without any organization.
While we were waiting patiently at the rope area we noticed the Wal-Mart associates planned to cut the rope at various sections in front of the people with box cutters rather than simply dropping and pulling the rope away.  When 5:00am rolled around all the box cutters were “clicked” out but
as one would suspect the process did not go quickly and my neighbor and I were pushed into the rope by the crowd.  After a few seconds the crowd had lifted the rope up high and it caught me across the face below my nose as
the crowd pushed me toward the Wal-Mart associate with the box cutter in hand still trying to cut the rope!  Can you understand how dangerous this was?  I managed to get through with a resulting red rope burn across my face
above my lip and bruises to my upper gum area. Afterwards, the associates ran away with their box cutters still in hand.
If management had any forethought they would have simply handed out computer vouchers to the first so many people in an orderly line and all of this could have been avoided.  Needless to say even though my neighbor and I were
part of the first five people at the store and waited two and one half hours we both left the store without the notebook computer.  They were handing them out in the smallest area (photo) in the very back of the store.
The people that pushed and fought the hardest were rewarded regardless of how long they had waited.
Our Wal-Mart experience was so horrifying we left the store with nothing even though we could have purchased other items on our list. In stark contrast, on Black Friday last year, I waited in an orderly line outside of Target while target employees served customers hot beverages and explained
how the process would work.  They had plenty of sale items in stock and everyone that waited a couple of hours went away happy customers.  Due to our experience today, Wal-Mart will lose all of my family’s future business.
We as well as others will gladly pay a few more dollars to be treated with respect and safety in mind.  The lowest price is not the only driver in a consumer’s decision.  With email and internet technology, my neighbor and I will be able to share our Wal-Mart story with hundreds of thousands of people.  I hope by sharing the story of our experience it will save many
others from such an ordeal.

If you do not like Wal-Mart then do not shop there. I currently work fo a competitor in the and I shop at Wal-Mart. I do not buy everything there. But there are hundreds of big box stores out there why isn’t someone protesting Target, K Mart, Sears, JC Penny’s, or Best Buy? Oh well, to each their own I guess.

Brandon in Lansing, Mich:  Well said!  I should have followed your advice a long time ago: “ignore “trolls” and focus on real issues.”

I think I’ve made it abundantly clear what the issues are.  People like Robert Springer and jc are nothing more than trolls and don’t deserve a response.  My mistake was to think I could rationally dialogue with people in such a confused extremist state of mind.

Brandon, you also said there isn’t enough thinking going on.  I would disagree with you there.  There has been entirely too much thinking going on and not enough action.  You added: “I really want to participate and be active in the anti Wal-Mart circle..” Hold onto that thought.  Don’t judge Walmartwatch by the banter you’ve seen in this blog.

The people with Walmartwatch are doing great things.  I’ve worked with them getting screenings of the Greenwald movie set up.  You might also want to get plugged into www.wakeupwalmart.com There is plenty of action happening out there if you’re looking for it.

Good luck!  Now...I’m outta here!

Tom Boese
Field Producer - Wisconsin
Brave New Films

Brandon--I consider myself anti WM--on the same token that doesn’t mean I’m going to agree with everything that WMwatch says or does. It’s important to at least try to maintain objectivity.
I am glad the site exists. I’ve gotten to the point where I’ve vented on the same issues over and over again and feel sometimes a reluctance to keep repeating myself over and over. It’s okay. There are other people whose views I agree with (for the most part) and consider as valid as mine. Sometimes the problem is in thinking those that you don’t like are completely invalid. That’s not always the case. As far as the people you’re arguing with there are those not interested in what you have to say at all. They are only interested in shouting you down or obfuscating what you’re trying to say--twisting it some way that it’s not even recognizable to you anymore. There is no way of getting around that. They will keep on coming here. When I get the attention of someone like this I will only answer what I feel like answering. And I kind of look at this way---that it’s not important whether you can convince someone here or not. There are people that come here and just read--those are the ones I’m more interested in reaching. And I think you’ll reach more with reasoned argument and by keeping away from turning it into something personal with someone else.

As a walmart employee, im sorry so many people had a bad shopping experience and that some got hurt.  This is just my opinion but I think instead of having a four or five hour sale why not have a sale that lasts the whole weekend.  This way it would enable people to shop relatively safe and maybe purchase everything they want.  Also people who have to work that day like us could get in on some of the bargains.  I remember one year when an associate told to stand in front of a pallet of small appliances was threatened with a knife if she didnt give the man the item before the sale even started.  When the tickle me Elmo was popular one of our associates was knocked down from a ladder as he was trying to get one down for a customer.  People act like animals and its suppose to be the merriest season of the year. Bah Humbug!

Wal Mart in warwick RI is open till mid-night on sunday’s when no other stores are able to be open tell me how that happens!!!

Tom in Menominee Falls, WI -

I’m glad I could make someone see my point.  I only wanted to say that I see your as well - the banter I was frustrated by obstructed the thinking and good ideas that are here.  I’m not giving up on this cause, and I hope that more people will be motivated to act along with any thinking and idea-based progress that is occuring.

kathleen in aiken:
I have to agree with you about the way they handle black friday sales. I don’t like going shopping during those big sales especially since I’ve worked retail on black friday before, and for the last 7 Thanksgivings I have had to work on the thanksgiving and black friday (my trade off for Christmas at home with my kids) and since I have to be to work at 4am I wouldn’t be able to shop them if I wanted to. Not just Walmart but all the stores act like the only people that want those big savings are off work that morning.

This is the first year that I can remember actually getting something from a black friday ad and that was because my 17 year old got it for me. Fortunately for us the Dora the explore TV with a DVD player was not as in demand as the laptop was and she was able to get it.

I can’t help but wonder why none of the stores think about the working group, it might take a little of the edge off the morning rushes too.

Tom Boese,

In case you come back--tell me why you support walmartwatch and wakeupwalmart.

And what gives you the idea that they, you, BNFilms, or anyone else needs to “reform” Wal-Mart.

I would like to state something here, that has been distorted by people like Tom Boise.  I am not pro Wal-Mart, nor is Wal-Mart my favorite store.  I am pro Free Enterprise and pro Capitalism.  It seems that all focus has been laid at Wal-Marts doorstep, when in fact, all other retail stores have similar situations and practices.  I shop at whatever store gives me the best deal for my money.

As for actions, the best way to protest Wal-Mart, is to shop elsewhere.  Sure it may cost you more money and may cause you inconvenience, but, hey, if you really feel strongly about Wal-Marts practices, it may be worth it for you.

But, remember, you reap what you sow, by changing your shopping habits to another store, you could just end up creating another large retailer, that you will have to fight against later.

All, I am for, is the right of the Wal-Mart employees to decide for themselves, their destiny, not some paid film-maker or union.  And, for a company to run it’s business in the manner they feel works best for them.  The good will rise and the bad will fail.  That is the system I am for, not Wal-Mart or any other particular store, just the best stores in general.

Like I said, if you don’t like Wal-Mart, give your money to some other store.  And, if you don’t like Wal-Mart’s business practices, get your friends and neighbors to join you in a boycott of your local store.  Without customers, Wal-Mart will fail.  And, for you that work there and don’t like your wages and benefits, quit and go somewhere else.  But, leave the people who are happy with their situations to enjoy their jobs.  Don’t punish them for your dissatisfaction.

Anyone notice how Tom Boese, refuses to answer the hard questions?

He asked, “How much is enough?  I gave my answer and then asked him to tell me, if he were in charge, How much would he consider enough? 

Still no reply!!

I also asked him if the people of his film crew were union workers, being paid union wages and benefits.

Still no reply!!

Guess he likes to criticize, but does not like to reply to questions that might make him look foolish, hey?

I think all of the people that say it’s Walmart’s fault that these fights broke out is an idiot. It is the people’s fault that shop there. Everyone needs to realize that people are responsible for their own actions, and Walmart cannot and should not be help responsible if people decide to act like psychos.

I agree whole heartedly with you Kelly. Best Buy had a laptop on sale that day, for just as cheap, did you hear that there was a brawl there? Nope. This society is bent on blaming someone else instead if the individual(s) that caused it, either themselves or what have you.

This is so easy, it makes me want to bash my head against the wall.

The Wal Mart ad in my area, if I remember correctly, listed NO RESTRICTIONS such as ‘limited quantities’.  (I specifically looked because I knew Wal Mart probably had about 1% of expected demand stocked on these items, and I wanted to see if they had a disclaimer) Under PA Unfair Practices and Consumer Protection law (Title 73 SS 201), Wal Mart or any other retailer must supply advertised items in quatities sufficient to meet consumer demand, or they would be liable to pay up to triple damages.  That’s easily $1300-$2000 for each laptop customer.  Do you know how much it costs Wal Mart to use staff attorney time?? 

If every customer paid the $70 filing fee and sued Wal Mart in District Court, then Wal Mart would never, ever do this fraud again.

People don’t understand that this is the only way to keep retailers honest.  If you let them get away with it, they will continue to defraud the consumers in mass quantities.  Advertising fraud and rebate fraud are the two biggest way retailers steal from consumers.  If you all just file a very easy and inexpensive lawsuit every time you get screwed......  They would stop doing this.  Go read about the Comp USA rebate settlement.

(I have a friend who works in management at the Erie, PA store.... he heard discussions about the extremely low quantities of advertised merchandise well before black friday hit.  He thought there would be physical trouble when black friday hit)

- 2 million shoppers in the 1st hour on Black friday.

Seems me that people are shopping in huge numbers at walmart and the minority opposition is hidden away in chat rooms.

Reminds me comments made by Al Gore following the start of the war in Iraq.  Dick Chenney’s response was merely: Al Gore is irrelevant at this point”

Maybe, just maybe, these anti-walmart efforts are only a way to keep busy and to validate each others’ irrelevant existance.

The shoppers spoke on friday and made it clear that walmart has become a grounded part of our society.

The comment on people being responsible for their own actions is true.
There is a mitigating circumstance here though that should not just be shunted aside---and that is that WM set the stage for this event to take place.
To comment on Mr. Gore. I’ve never liked him however Mr.
Cheney is hardly someone to look up to and is as deceitful as anyone from the previous administration.

John T in Pittsburgh, PA
Yep your right if everytime someone believed they got screwed then - - -the courts would be back logged with worthless lawsuits. It’s this kind of logic that has run the cost of health and auto insurance through the roof.

I would like you to explain what damages you suffered from the fact that Walmart not having a laptop for you to buy caused you the slightest amount of damage? And lets see if everyone went through every ad for black friday and filed suit for three times the ad price for everything every retailer ran out of the courts wouldn’t be able to hear all the cases now would they. I think there is more to the law then you have posted.

Lori, I will post the law for you right now, as you are woefully ignorant of it.

Worthless lawsuit?  Oh, so it’s okay for Wal Mart to break the law?  It isn’t, actually.  The fact that they don’t get sued allows them to continue this behavior.  I guess you think it’s okay for them to advertise products that they don’t stock.  Great!  You’re swell!

If every person filed suit you can bet your ass that Wal Mart wouldn’t pull this crap again.

I would love to get into a detailed discussion on how worthless doctors are not removed from practice by their peers (which would prevent lawsuits) and the extent of damages suffered by the general population when they are sent on a wild goose chase by the millions, but I don’t have the time to waste on persons who haven’t a clue how things work.

Unconsolidated Pennsylvania Statutes
TRADE AND COMMERCE (TITLE 73)

UNFAIR TRADE PRACTICES AND CONSUMER PROTECTION LAW

1. “Unfair methods of competition” and “unfair or deceptive acts or practices” means any one or more of the following:

x. Advertising goods or services with intent not to supply reasonably expectable public demand, unless the advertisement discloses a limitation of quantity

201-9.2. Private actions.
(a) Any person who purchases or leases goods or services primarily for personal, family or household purposes ... may bring a private action to recover actual damages or one hundred dollars ($100), whichever is greater. The court may, in its discretion, award up to three times the actual damages sustained, but not less than one hundred dollars ($100), and may provide such additional relief as it deems necessary or proper. The court may award to the plaintiff, in addition to other relief provided in this section, costs and reasonable attorney fees.

201-8. Civil penalties.
(a) Any person who violates the terms of an injunction issued under section 4 of this act or any of the terms of an assurance of voluntary compliance duly filed in court under section 5 of this act shall forfeit and pay to the Commonwealth a civil penalty of not more than five thousand dollars ($5,000) for each violation. For the purposes of this section the court issuing an injunction or in which an assurance of voluntary compliance is filed shall retain jurisdiction, and the cause shall be continued; and, in such cases, the Attorney General, or the appropriate District Attorney, acting in the name of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, may petition for recovery of civil penalties and any other equitable relief deemed needed or proper.

(b) In any action brought under section 4 of this act, if the court finds that a person, firm or corporation is wilfully using or has wilfully used a method, act or practice declared unlawful by section 3 of this act, the Attorney General or the appropriate District Attorney, acting in the name of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, may recover, on behalf of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, a civil penalty of not exceeding one thousand dollars ($1,000) per violation, which civil penalty shall be in addition to other relief which may be granted under sections 4 and 4.1 of this act. Where the victim of the wilful use of a method, act or practice declared unlawful by section 3 of this act is sixty years of age or older, the civil penalty shall not exceed three thousand dollars ($3,000) per violation, which penalty shall be in addition to other relief which may be granted under sections 2 and 4.1 of this act.

John T

That’s all well and good and the law you posted is accurate. However, the law does not define “reasonably expected public demand”. Wal-Mart has a full-time legal department, like any Fortune 500 company, that is pays regardless.

Wal-Mart’s lawyers could use this argument: at $800, this store normally sells 4 laptops per week. At $200 each, we can sell 30. We had 30 in stock at that price. Where’s the fraud?

You see, John T, unless Wal-Mart normally sells 50 laptops per week at a store, you can’t say that they were not ‘reasonably stocked’ for the 1-day sale.

At some point, perhaps the retailers could sue consumers for not paying enough for their product.

Is it really that far-fetched?

Are you suggesting, sir, that black friday, widely touted by Wal Mart publicly as their biggest shopping day of the year, could be argued in court as having sales equivalent to any other ‘normal’ week?

I would love to face you across the table as Wal Mart’s representation.

John, once again, some WMW advocate is making a big deal about nothing. And by the way, I didn’t hear a peep about the so called protest the UFCW was going to stage outside the Walmarts on Black Friday. Seems like maybe they were to busy shopping also to waste their time on a worthless cause....

wow what a shock yet another personal attack instead of just stating the facts. I do believe I asked you what actual damages you suffered from not getting one of these computers. Copied from your own posting:

may bring a private action to recover actual damages or one hundred dollars ($100), whichever is greater.
and the three times as much part reads:
The court may, in its discretion, award up to three times the actual damages sustained, but not less than one hundred dollars ($100),

The operative words again being actual damages. It does not say three times the value of the merchandise.
So who is calling me the idiot I do know how to read.

Is every retailer supposed to have one, two, three thousand of something on hand just incase they are in high demand?
Lets face it it’s been all over the news that last year Walmarts Black Friday sale was a bust. They did badly so how was they to know that this year they picked the right thing to advertise?  Some how I just can’t imagine that walmart would sell a whole lot of them on a regular basis. Walmart would not be my first choice of places to buy a laptop computer or any computer for that matter I would go someplace that specializes in them.

Every walmart had the laptop just not enough to meet the demand.

I see all you worthless trolls are still managing to obfuscate
the real issues concerning Wal-Mart, as well as divert the discussion away from the many points raised in the film WAL-MART: The High Cost of Low Price.  Of course none of you can honestly critique the movie or refute the many points it raised, because you still haven’t seen it.

Tom Boese
Field Producer - Wisconsin
Brave New Films

John T,

Michigan has a similar law.  The violation in the ad is that they did not state the quantity available per store as required by law. 

In Michigan, Circuit City was successfully prosecuted for the same violation in 2002.

Filing complaints is the first step. 

A civil action is the second.  In Michigan the civil penalty is actual damages or $250, whichever is greater, plus attorney’s fees.

The law in Michigan also allows class action status if approved by the Attorney General.

Do you think that there would have been the crowds waiting for a laptop if the ad stated that there were only 9 available per store (as was the case in a Lansing, MI store)?

The purpose of the law is to prevent stores from using “Bait and Switch” tactics. 

If Walmart had stated the number available as less than I was willing to stand in line for, I would have been at Best Buy that morning, which by the way, complied with state law and had number available per store in their ad.

Have I been damaged?  No, I have no loss with the exception of some lost time and sleep.  It is not about getting a notebook computer anymore.  Walmart knowingly and willfully violated the law. 

I may get nowhere with my complaints to both the Attorney General and my local prosecuter, but I would only be angry with myself if I just sighed, and walked away.

John T wrote:

“ Oh, so it’s okay for Wal Mart to break the law?  It isn’t, actually.  The fact that they don’t get sued allows them to continue this behavior. “

“ The Wal Mart ad in my area, if I remember correctly, listed NO RESTRICTIONS such as ‘limited quantities’.  (I specifically looked because I knew Wal Mart probably had about 1% of expected demand stocked on these items, and I wanted to see if they had a disclaimer) “

If this is a PA. Law and Wal-Mart has broken the law, why isn’t the State Attorney General’s office filing suit?  Why is it left to the customers, to file suit, before the law is enforced?  Could it be, that the Attorney General knows something you don’t?  Maybe that they would have a hard time proving fraud!!

Like it has been said, how can any store, know how many customers will show up for a sale item?  But, the amount of 50 per store has been mentioned before (some said less, though I don’t know how they knew what that amount actually was, the 9 sounds courious, most of the time it an even amount).  But, if Wal-Mart operates aprox. 5000 stores, at 50 per store, would require a total of 250,000 laptops.  If they had estimated a higher number, say 100 ave. per store, that number would increase to 500,000.  Even Wal-Mart might have a problem getting 500,000 laptops for a 1 day sale.

As for a disclaimer, where did you look for this, by the listed product or at the bottom of the front or back pages of the flier?  I know, that the TV ad listed disclaimers and as these fliers are usually printed for national distribution, they too probably had a disclaimer, but you just looked in the wrong place.  One disclaimer I know they had, was: Sale excluded in, Alaska, Wisconsin, Puerto Rico, and Hawaii.  I find it hard to believe that they would forget to add limited quantities.

Yes the ad stated “While Supplies Last”.  I do not know about the PA law, but Michigan law specifically does not allow that disclaimer. 

If a merchant in Michigan is not able to meet the demand for an item they are to issue a “raincheck”. 

I was quite aware of the law on Black Friday.  Which is why I chose to be at Walmart.  I was hoping to possibly walking away with one for my daughter, but knew (or so I thought) I would obtain a raincheck.

I was told that the store did not issue rainchecks, even though their ad specifically states they do.

They then pointed out an exclusion for “special buy, one time offers” in their raincheck policy, which violates Michigan law.  I pointed out that their raincheck policy also states “"Offer and/or limitations void where prohibited by law.” I was then told the store does not offer rainchecks.

Oh, and the notebooks are not a one time only model.  They were for sale for what I believe was the regular price of $698 before Friday.

Robert Springer,
“If this is a PA. Law and Wal-Mart has broken the law, why isn’t the State Attorney General’s office filing suit?  Why is it left to the customers, to file suit, before the law is enforced?  Could it be, that the Attorney General knows something you don’t?  Maybe that they would have a hard time proving fraud!! “

Attorney Generals do not file lawsuits.  They investigate and then prosecute if a compaint has merit.  Filing a complaint is the first step.

Tom Boese wrote:

“ I think I’ve made it abundantly clear what the issues are.  People like Robert Springer and jc are nothing more than trolls and don’t deserve a response.  My mistake was to think I could rationally dialogue with people in such a confused extremist state of mind. “

“ I see all you worthless trolls are still managing to obfuscate
the real issues concerning Wal-Mart, as well as divert the discussion away from the many points raised in the film WAL-MART: The High Cost of Low Price.  Of course none of you can honestly critique the movie or refute the many points it raised, because you still haven’t seen it. “

It’s real strange that anyone who disagrees with Tom, are mindless, worthless ‘trolls’, in such a confused extremist state of mind.  Yet, he still refuses to answer the ‘hard’ questions put to him. 

As a field producer for the Movie, he keeps pointing to the many points raised in the film, as if other points are not worth discussing, only points from the movie.  Then, he states that most people haven’t seen it.  How can anyone debate points from something they haven’t seen?  And, why haven’t they seen the movie?  Tom stated that the movie was shown in only 2 places in the State of Arkansas.  Arkansas is a large state, only 2 showings, doesn’t seem like much coverage in the state that is the Home of Wal-Mart.  Were they afraid people here would see right through it?  Oh, I forgot, people in Arkansas are too ignorant to understand such a complicated movie, at least that is what Tom said.

Who is the real ‘troll’ here?  Who has the most to gain from this film?  It couldn’t be the film’s field producer, could it?

Gloria in Saginaw wrote:

“ Attorney Generals do not file lawsuits.  They investigate and then prosecute if a compaint has merit.  Filing a complaint is the first step. “

Then, I suggust that you inform them of this violation.  File the complaint that starts the investigation.  Maybe you can prevent this from happening in the future, many will thank you for it.

I have filed complaints with both the Attorney General’s office and the local county prosecuter.

There was an interesting story in the NY Times by John Tierney.  I will quote a few parts. 

A new hardware has opened where the H & H Hardware operated.  The store was opened last month by Jay Negin, a local resident who bought the building despite the new Walmart.  He told me that the building’s appraised value, rather than being hurt by Walmart’s opening in May, is higher than it was last year.  He scoffed at the notion that Walmart put his predecessor out of business, as did some of the former employees and customers of the old store.  They told me that the business had been foundering for years because of management mistakes.  It actually closed three months before Walmart opened, a fact not made clear in the documentary.

The new hardware is doing fine.  Engin told me “Am I concerned about Walmart? he asked.  Not really.  If you’re a struggling business they can hurt you.  But as as long as you listen to your customers and give them the products and service they need, they’’ll stay loyal.”

He’s hardly the only optimist in Middlefield.  John Bruening, an optician who appeqred in the documentary fretting about Walmart got so much unexpected new business, he decided to open a new store. 

“I wasn’t too happy abut Walmart coming” said Ada Schlabach, who was browsing through the plain colored fabrics that Walmart stocks for Amish customers.  “I didn’t know what it would do to the community-would it make it more city like?  But I was surprised.  It’s kind of nice now. I like shopping here”.

No Tim, I have not seen the movie.  I don’t need to stick my nose in horse manure to know it stinks.

Gloria in Saginaw wrote:

“ I have filed complaints with both the Attorney General’s office and the local county prosecuter. “

Good for you!!  You are following the law to overturn an injustice.  There is no need to punish the employees of Wal-Mart by forcing them to join a union, just because the company uses what you may feel are some bad business practices.  Change the practices, not the whole system.

if you people despise Walmart so much, why do you waste your time hear talking about it. go out and DO SOMETHING about it...don’t just sit on your butt in front of your computer and spout about “the evils of Walmart”
don’t shop on Black Friday. people behave like animals, and not just at Walmart. my sister works at Walmart. Her store was quite quiet that day. seriously. i talked with a few people from that store, and people didn’t push and shove and fight. the people that were there at the start got what they came for.
seriously though, if you all think that Walmart is so terrible, go out and do something about it. don’t just sit back and watch

Gloria and John T my only question to both of you is are you filing complaints against every store that ran out of the sale merchandise on Black Friday or is it just Walmart your going after?

Lori,
I am filing a complaint with Walmart.  Not because they ran out of merchandise, but because they violated the law by not stating the number available per store in their ad, and then not offering a raincheck or another item of equal or greater monetary value for the same price.

Other Black Friday ads that I looked at from other merchants stated the quantity available per store, which puts them in compliance.

This is not a new law in Michigan, in fact it is nearly 30 years old.  Other big box stores have been successfully prosecuted.

The point is they violated the law.  If I had been in any other store that day and received the same resonse, I would be filing against them.

I did call Walmart corporate offices.  I was referred back to the local store.  I have received 3 phone calls from store management trying to convince me that they do not have to issue rainchecks.  I do not know why they keep bothering with me if I do not have a valid complaint.

I do not know why they keep bothering with me if I do not have a valid complaint

Could it be they are trying to keep a customer happy? Could it be they believe in trying to resolve a customers complaint? Isn’t the purpose of complaining about something so that you can get someone to listen to you? Seems since you have recieved 3 phone calls they are trying to resolve your complaint. Why can’t you believe they are trying to resolve this with you instead of thinking the worst all the time?

You yourself said the law has been around for 30 years, do you believe that Walmart does not know about it and know that they have done what ever is necessary to not violate it? Why have they obeyed this law every other year but chose to ignore it this year? See this does not make sence to me. I am not doughting that you believe you know what you are talking about what I am saying is I think that Walmart knows something that you do not. And I say this because I have very little dought that they have much more access to legal eagles then you do, if it makes you feel any better then I’d have to say they have found a way around the law.

Just curious, why do they say they do not believe they have to issue rain checks?

Lori,

I did not not get the impression that they were tring to solve a complaint.  I believe that they were trying to placate me.

The reason they gave me was the store does not issue rainchecks.  I did ask how they could circumvent the law.  I was told that since the store did not write the ad they were not bound by a raincheck policy.  Which, I pointed out, their ad does have a raincheck policy.  I was then told the store does not issue rainchecks.  It was a continuous loop.  They did not address the consumer protection laws at all, and could not, or would not tell me why they were exempt.

I believe that the motive (and yes, it is an assumption) was to get me to back down and not persue legal action.  I have yet to decide if I will file a civil case.

You are also making assumptions.  I actually do have legal access, and their opinion is that no, they did not find a way around the law, they just don’t think it applies to them.

“Why have they obeyed this law every other year but chose to ignore it this year?”

I do not know if they have obeyed this law every other year.

It was not in their best interest to state the quantity available per store.  Unofficially there have been reports of as few as 9, officially Walmart has said 15 in Michigan.

The Walmart ad was “leaked” to the press weeks before the Black Friday sale.  CNN ran a news story on it.

The purpose was to get shoppers in the stores, and it was a success.  I have no problem with that. 

I think that they believed that the sales in their stores that day would be worth any legal “problems” they would have.
I believe it was a business decision, and they felt that the small cost of any civil suits, and future compliance to an “injunction” (which is what the State of Michigan would issue) and perhaps a small fine would be dwarfed by their bottom line that day.

I do not think I am thinking the “worst”.  I am not under some illusion that I will bring Walmart down, nor is it my motivation.  They are looking out for their best interest, and I am looking out for mine.  I really do support the consumer protection laws in my state and feel that Walmart should abide by them just as other retailers have.

I understand what Dave in Phoenix is trying to do by comparing prices at Target to those at zebulonUSA.com.  However, I believe the inference that the difference in these costs being due to the items being imported at Target vs Made in the USA at zebulonUSA.com is inaccurate.

In this comparison the largest factor in the pricing difference is quantity of scale.  This difference occurs in two areas.  At the retailer level, the purchasing volume of zebulonUSA.com is far smaller than that of any single Target store much less the Corporation as a whole.  Also at the point of manufacture, the annual quantities produced by the suppliers to zebulonUSA.com again are typically a fraction of the quantities produced by any manufacturer supplying to Target.  Even if they are solely a Target supplier.  The more items produced, the lower the cost of said product.  If Target sold the same items as zebulonUSA.com, zebulon’s prices would be lower as well, due to the better pricing available from the suppliers.  This is a much bigger factor in pricing than country of origin.

As an aside, comparing the quality of zebulonUSA.com’s items to those of Target is probably not appropriate.  We at zebulonUSA.com would prefer to be compared to Lands End and LL Bean.  You will find our prices more comparable to theirs.  This is true even though most of their products are now imported.  As a side note, a few of our suppliers are former suppliers to each of these retailers.  Unfortunately, they lost this business to offshore sources.