Book Review: “The Big Squeeze” by Steven Greenhouse

What More Needs to Be Said?

The next time somebody comes to this blog and asks the question, “Why Wal-Mart?” just give them these two reasons:

1) Wal-Mart is much bigger than any other private employer (six times the size of its closest competitor, Target, the last time I checked), and 2) Wal-Mart has and continues to be a pioneer in developing many of the techniques that have made the American workplace so awful for so many people.

Walmart should be forced to change because it is large?  And Julius Caesar should have been killed becaue he was ambitious.  Et tu, Brute?

If Only...

“Walmart should be forced to change because it is large?”

Precisely!

If only Teddy Roosevelt were around to straighten you out, Robert!

Walmart does not hold a retail monopoly.

Paging Robert Feinman!

Robert Feinman, if you’re out there, would you care to address Mr. Trenwick?

Maybe he’d benefit from what you had to say about monopolies and monopsonies.

Sure, they have market power.  That does not mean Walmart is the only kid on the block.  Why, I also shop at Dollar General!

Paging Ken V!

Would you care to explain the difference to Mr. Trenwick between being a part of the problem or a part of the solution?

Nothing Personal Mr. Trenwick, but...

“You have meddled with the primal forces of nature, Mr. Trenwick, and I won’t have it. Is that clear?

The Arabs have taken billions of dollars out of this country, and now they must put it back. It is ebb and flow, tidal gravity. It is ecological balance. You are an old man who thinks in terms of nations and peoples. There are no nations; there are no peoples. There are no Russians. There are no Arabs. There are no third worlds. There is no West. There is only one holistic system of systems; one vast, interwoven, interacting, multivaried, multinational dominion of dollars.

It is the international system of currency which determines the vitality of life on this planet. THAT is the natural order of things today. THAT is the atomic and subatomic and galactic structure of things today.

Am I getting through to you, Mr. Trenwick? There is no America; there is no democracy. There is only IBM, and ITT, and AT&T;, and DuPont, Dow, Union Carbide, Exxon/Mobil and Wal-Mart. Those are the nations of the world today.
The world is a business, Mr. Trenwick; it has been since man crawled out of the slime. Our children will live, Mr. Trenwick, to see that perfect world in which there’s no war or famine, oppression or brutality - one vast and ecumenical holding company, for whom all men will work to serve a common profit, in which all men will hold a share of stock - all necessities provided, all anxieties tranquilized, all boredom amused.

And Wal-Mart has been chosen, to preach this evangel.”

You may recognize this quote from the movie “Network.” Isn’t it interesting how personalizing it, makes the message particularly relevant to the times we live in?

That explains why I don’t watch movies.

Robert J. Trenwick: It is not necessary to watch it. We are all living it.

ddrb in and Screwedby, you have proved my point that some people seek to place blame on others for their own lot in life.

“ddrb in and Screwedby, you have proved my point that some people seek to place blame on others for their own lot in life.”

Robert J. Trenwick in Dothan, AL

Is it possible that some people also are taking the credit for being more fortunate in life including more opportunities?

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse

R E M E M B E R
J A C K S O N V I L L E
T E X A S
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse

What opportunities?  Those to go to school and work hard?  My parents offered to pay for college, which I accepted.  I lived with my parents and attended school first at the local junior college, then at the local university.  Had they not paid, I would have made my own way through said hard work.  My point is that I have not blamed others, but worked toward my own goals.  I get tired of hearing whiners…

Alex, is there something wrong with the “Pick yourself up by your own bootstraps?” message?

RJT:  Would you please substantiaite how my declarative sentences,proferring an OBSERVATION of a commonality-i.e,that we are ALL living in a a vastly different world ,is somehow seeking blame? I fail to make a connection.

And before anyone jumps on that “parents offered to pay for college” comment, allow me to fully paint that picture.  I was raised in a blue-collar family, living in a blue-collar neighborhood.  My father was and still is a truck driver.  When I was in middle school my mother, tired of manual labor, went back to school, in addition to her 40-hour job and taking care of 3 kids and a home.  She graduated with a 4.0 average as a Certified Medical Assistant and began working as such when I was in high school.  Earning too much to qualify for grants, my parents buckled down, bit the bullet, and paid for my tuition.  It was not a life of privilege, filled with opportunites that others only dream of.

There is no America; there is no democracy. There is only IBM, and ITT, and AT&T;, and DuPont, Dow, Union Carbide, Exxon/Mobil and Wal-Mart.

“We, the unwilling, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible
for the ungrateful. We have done so much, for so long, with so
little, we are now qualified to do anything with nothing.”- Six-
Pack Muldoon

Robert J. Trenwick,

“Alex, is there something wrong with the “Pick yourself up by your own bootstraps?” message?”

According to people like Alex and others, there IS something wrong with the “Pick yourself up by the bootstraps message”, and it is, ‘Some people just can’t do it and need help’!!  Also, there is the WHY BOTHER?, when you can get a union or government to get it for you!!  You may have noticed, there are always people who have something against ‘intelligence’ and people who study, go on to higher education or just ‘put their nose to the grindstone’ they are referred to as NERDS, Eggheads, Bookworms, or Brown-nosers, while the slackers and goofoffs, are referred to as the ‘Cool’ or ‘popular people!!  Remember, it is always easier, to be a victim of society, and ask others to ‘do it for you’, than to face up to the challanges of life and “pull yourself up by the bootstraps”!!

This site, is a good example of people whining about the success of others and asking the successful to “Share the wealth’ with the unsuccessful, or as they put it, ‘the unfortunates’, as if they had no choices in life!!

Notice how the article says, “Some people working at Wal-Mart have it better than others working elsewhere”, yet the people here, say that Wal-Mart is the worst, just because they are BIGGER, some kind of logic, right?  I would take it to mean that Wal-Mart is somewhere in the MIDDLE, how about you?

“people here, say that Wal-Mart is the worst, just because they are BIGGER, some kind of logic, right? “

Yep, some kind of logic.

“What opportunities?  Those to go to school and work hard?  My parents offered to pay for college, which I accepted.  I lived with my parents and attended school first at the local junior college, then at the local university."~Robert J. Trenwick

Isn’t it always those who have had opportunities provided for them, who like to be the ones who preach what they would have done if they didn’t have opportunities?

I think our friend Robert would find a very different reality if he was working at his Walmart or Dollar store, and trying to pay for school.

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse

R E M E M B E R
J A C K S O N V I L L E
T E X A S
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse

screwed by your lame excuse pick on walmart because they are much biiger is a bs excuse to pick on walmart.what makes it ok for the others to do what walmart says sir?

I told you long ago, RDS, when you were flailing around trying to come up with an on-line monicker that Bootstrap Bob was the perfect name for you. But would you listen? No!

And, Robert J. Trenwick, if you had done a little back reading you would know all your ‘ideas’ have been hashed and re-hashed ad nauseum (and that includes Ayn Rand).

Ryan Loken, a Wal-Mart Stores Inc. recruitment manager, says he spends one to two hours a week searching through blogs for new talent or additional information about the candidates he has interviewed. ~WSJ

I think our friend Robert would find a very different reality if he was working at his Walmart or Dollar store, and trying to pay for school. ~Alex

With my “free” college degree in hand in 1989, I was making enough money to live in a 1-bedroom apartment and drive a 1974 VW Beetle with holes in the floor.  I worked to get through school and have worked more since to establish my career.  I have been dissatisfied in jobs and have sought and obtained others.  My point is that you shouldn’t settle.  Work hard and move up or move on.  If you don’t, then don’t complain.  It is you choice and your responsibility.

“My parents offered to pay for college, which I accepted.  I lived with my parents and attended school first at the local junior college, then at the local university."~Robert

Ok Robert. You have given us your formula for success for those who have their parents paying the bill for their living quarters and their education. Thankyou for that.
Now IF YOU CHOOSE, would you provide an action plan for those who may be working at lets say a Walmart who may have dependents? Would you tell us the steps so they can become a success like yourself?

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse

R E M E M B E R
J A C K S O N V I L L E
T E X A S
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse

...a 1974 VW Beetle...

You may wish you had it back.

“Capitalism needs to function like a game of tug-of-war. Two opposing sides need to continually struggle for dominance, but at no time can either side be permitted to walk away with the rope.” ~ Pete Holiday

Would you tell us the steps so they can become a success like yourself? ~Alex in Ontario

Alex, the formula is the same regardless:

success := gumption + perserverance;

It’s all about the choices one makes.  I have lost 2 jobs during my career due to management “planning”.  What did I do?  I found 2 others and kept plugging.

Would you have turned down the tuition?

“...a 1974 VW Beetle...You may wish you had it back.” ~Ken V

I do wish I had it back, so I drive a 2003 New Beetle to relive my youth!

Alex, I did exactly that.  I worked full time at Wal-Mart as an unloader to pay my way through college.

I also worked a (very) part time job.  This was done while taking between 12-18 credits per semester. 

Actually, I had part from Robert’s experience, and part of what you said.  My grandma offered to help pay school, which I accepted.  I dropped out after three years of this, because I didn’t really appreciate any of it.  It wasn’t until I had to pay my own way that I finished.  I switched my major and worked full time at WM to pay my way through the last part of school.

Thanks Scott
So you got by one year of school ( I am assuming just supporting yourself) with full time at Walmart.

Now back to Robert.

I asked “....would you [Robert] provide an action plan for those who may be working at lets say a Walmart who may have dependents?

And your action plan was.......drum roll please...............
....................everyone get ready.................................

Alex, the formula is the same regardless:
success := gumption + perserverance;

Are you running for some political office Robert?
I remember an action plan having the characteristics of being specific, measureable, and timely. You just offer a lot of fluff.

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse

R E M E M B E R
J A C K S O N V I L L E
T E X A S
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse

Alex,

Three years, actually.  I did three, dropped out for two years, switched majors (double major) and then graduated.  These last three were spent working at WM.

It’d have to be a highly un political answer.  How about something like--don’t have kids if you can’t support them?  Stay married?  Be responsible for your family?

Alex,

“Isn’t it always those who have had opportunities provided for them, who like to be the ones who preach what they would have done if they didn’t have opportunities?”

Everybody has opportunities, if they take the time to find them!!  Anybody, who studies hard and gets good grades can be eligible for scholarships, Pell Grants and student loans!!  Problem is, quite a few people sit back moaning that they don’t have any opportunities and never see them, because they don’t LOOK for them!!  They consider themselves ‘victims’ of being BORN ‘poor’ and everyone knows you can’t get out of ‘poverty’, so what’s the use in trying, right?

I knew a guy once, who said he couldn’t find a job, I told him that he actually had to get off the sofa and go out and LOOK for one, “They don’t come door to door looking for employees”, two hours later, he came home with a job!!  He worked one night, quit and went back on welfare!!  Why?, because that was LESS work, he said the job was too hard, (harder than sitting around all day on the sofa, I guess)!!

How about something like--don’t have kids if you can’t support them?  Stay married?  Be responsible for your family?

Scott in

And in your perfect world Scott...........!
But thanks for trying.

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse

R E M E M B E R
J A C K S O N V I L L E
T E X A S
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse

“ He worked one night, quit and went back on welfare!!  Why?, because that was LESS work, he said the job was too hard, (harder than sitting around all day on the sofa, I guess)!!"~Bob(RDS)

And this has what to do with people who work (with little pay and benefits) at Walmart?

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse

R E M E M B E R
J A C K S O N V I L L E
T E X A S
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse

Alex,

Once again you don’t understand the point. If you are concerned about your small pay and benefits, you have the ability to do something about it. Don’t expect the company to hand out money and unlimited benefits.

I went into the military after I graduated from High School. After the military I worked in a union shop. I couldn’t get promoted because of this thing called seniority. No matter how hard I worked and how much I produced if someone was there longer then me, I was not able to get promoted. I had stewards constantly harrassing me about completing my jobs too quickly. I had greviences filed against me because I worked hard and was given overtime and extra tasks that the slackers did not get. I left the job and the union. I worked and went to school to learn something better then pushing shopping carts or stocking shelves. I knew that it was myself that determines my future and destiny, not government or union mandates.

Hillary and Bill: two slices, burnt and bitter!

“Clinton Toast”

How sweet it is!

IAM at GD, JR?

An Institute for Policy Studies and United for a Fair Economy report estimates that if “minimum wage had risen at the same pace as CEO pay since 1990, it would be worth $22.61 today.”

And your action plan was.......drum roll please...............
....................everyone get ready.................................

Alex, the formula is the same regardless:
success := gumption + perserverance; ~Alex

Alex, thanks for throwing the drum roll in for free!

Alex, you didn’t answer my question.  Would you have turned down the tuition?

How about something like--don’t have kids if you can’t support them?  Stay married?  Be responsible for your family? ~Scott

Thank you, Scott, thank you, thank you, thank you.

Robert-

Let’s ask Al a couple of generic questions…

1.  Did your parents give you any sort of financial assistance when (if) you went to college?

2.  What (in general) is your occupation, today?

JR Reid,

Thanks for your post, you hit the nail square on the head!!

3.06.2007
Which Wal-Mart Demographic are you?

The Consumerist is posting leaked slides from Wal-Mart’s new demographics campaign, otherwise titled “Wal-Mart Shopper Segmentation”.

According to Wal-Mart, there are 3 types of shoppers:

Price-Value Shoppers
Brand Aspirationals
Price-Sensitive Affluents

Wal-Mart has gone to great lengths to define and identify each category of shopper:

Price-Value - The poorest among us. Loyal to Wal-Mart, to a fault. Primarily young, rural, Baptist women. Uneducated beyond high-school. More worried and in poorer health than average. Watches Lifetime and ABC Family. Reads Better Homes & Gardens. Drives a used car which he/she still owes money on.

Brand Aspirational - His/Her image does not fit with the reality of his/her economic situation. Often a racial minority. Less technologically savvy than other demographics. Sports oriented, with a skew towards the NFL. Watches Fox Sports and reads automotive, athletic and fitness magazines.

Price-Sensitive Affluent - Highest income category. White, male, over age 45, highly educated. Very technologically savvy. Will compare products on the internet then purchase them for a better price in a retail store. Watches PBS and The History Channel. Reads National Geographic. Owns a completely paid for vehicle that is a newer model and was new when purchased.

Here’s my take:

Price-Value - Needs the most bang for their buck in order to survive. Can afford to eat healthier and clothe their children more effectively by shopping at Wal-Mart. Don’t care where a product comes form if it’s cheaper. Doesn’t care that Wal-Mart employees are not paid fairly because these shoppers often work for minimum wage themselves. Only has Cable TV because their neighbor does. Game show - Deal or No Deal, because “It’s OK to dream, isn’t it?”

Brand-Aspirational - Can’t afford to shop at The Gap or A&F;, so they buy cheap knock-offs at Wal-Mart to boost their self-esteem. Doesn’t care where a product comes from if it looks like a more expensive product. Doesn’t care about Wal-Mart’s treatment of their employees, because “It’s, like, their fault they work at Wal-Mart”. Owns a newer car that he/she owes more money on than it’s worth because he/she rolled over the balance owing on his/her trade-in. Game show - Wheel of Fortune - “Because it’s, like, soooo easy.”

Price-Sensitive Affluents: Can afford whatever they want, but like to buy it cheaper so they can have more of it, even at the expense of child-labor and Wal-Mart’s poor employment policies. Drive their 2006 Mercedes to Wal-Mart to save $65 over Amazon on an approximately $1800 50” Wega HDTV. Game show - Jeopary - “Because anything easier insults my intelligence.”

The above post is from Googling WalMart Deomgraphics.

From Wal-Mart Moms to Facebook Independents, GOP Targets Voters ----April 5,2008

SANTA ANA PUEBLO — Remember the soccer moms?
The top campaign official for presumptive Republican nominee John McCain on Friday identified five groups of target voters, a wide-ranging bloc that includes young people, Hispanics and what he called “Wal-Mart moms,’’ “Rehab Republicans’’ and “Facebook independents.’’
Addressing the Republican National Committee’s meeting of state chairmen at posh Tamaya Resort, McCain campaign manager Rick Davis said those voters will play a major role in this fall’s general election.
He urged GOP officials to familiarize themselves now.
“Go to Wal-Mart and stand next to the greeter for 20 minutes,’’ he said. “Go see the voters we’re targeting. If you see them, you’ll understand them.’’
Such political and cultural talk rises every four years, when campaigns identify groups that are evenly divided over which presidential candidate to support, as well as the issues those people view as most important.
This year, Davis said it’s not just McCain’s White House bid that stands to benefit from securing support from targeted groups, but also GOP candidates for federal offices and state legislative seats further down the ticket.
Davis listed the targeted voters in this order:
_ Wal-Mart moms. The description sounds like an updated version of soccer moms, battling a sluggish economy. “They shop at Wal-Mart,’’ Davis said. “They don’t have expensive tastes. They are suburban by nature.’’
_ Rehab Republicans. Longtime GOP members “who are not so enthusiastic over the last few years,’’ Davis said. “We’ve got to get them back.’’
_ Youth. Davis acknowledged the energy and enthusiasm Democratic candidate Barack Obama is drawing at rallies attracting thousands of young voters.
“We’ve got to go after this segment,’’ he said, suggesting outreach and education efforts through improvements to campaign Web sites.
“Obama’s site looks like a Calvin Klein commercial, very hip,’’ Davis said, adding that McCain’s site, while quite productive for campaign fundraising efforts, “is like a Buster Brown commercial.’’
_ Facebook independents. Tech-savvy, social networkers who are fiscally and socially conservative. “A critical, growing group,’’ he said. “They spend a lot of time on the Internet. When they pick a candidate, they tend to become activists.’’
_ Hispanics. “This group is critical to our party, not just in the Southwest or Florida but the whole nation,’’ Davis said.
Spanish-language versions of McCain television advertisements will air in key markets, Davis said. “We’re putting our money behind this effort. We’re putting our time behind this effort,’’ he said.~~~~~~~~~~AP~~~~~~~~

The above post is from Googling WalMart Deomgraphics.

And that topic was already beaten to death on WMW, last year…

...you’re a little late on the trigger, dear…

bbrd: Dear? I wasn’t posting here then. However I found the corrallary between the two reports quite similar,although there are dated one year apart.

Does Wal-Mart think its shoppers are illiterate? I mean, who doesn’t enjoy Better Homes and Gardens? (WMW)

Wal-Mart’s Magazine Purge [Jossip]

What happens when a retail giant who controls 20 percent of magazine newsstand sales drops 1,000 titles from its racks?

Wal-Mart this week announced the major trimming, dropping the heaviest anvil on Meredith Corp., ousting circulation stunners Better Homes & Gardens and Ladies Home Journal, as well as Fitness. Fellow heavyweight Town & Country, from Hearst, will also disappear, as will Hachette’s Home and Metropolitan Home.~~~~~~~~January,2008~~~~~~~~Well, one year later, no more fave magazines for the 2007 WalMart demographic shoppers.

I think Wal-Mart selling Better Homes & Gardens is the oxy to end all morons!

“Our free market was never meant to be a free license to take whatever you can get, however you can get it.” ~ Barack Obama

Alex, the formula is the same regardless:
success := gumption + perserverance;~Robert J. Trenwick

WOW.................that’s powerful stuff!!!
Are you a motivational speaker Robert?
You need to get the word out!  Quickly!

How about something like--don’t have kids if you can’t support them?  Stay married?  Be responsible for your family? ~Scott
Thank you, Scott, thank you, thank you, thank you.
Robert J. Trenwick

I want to say thank you, thank you, thank you also Scott.
Who would have known that there was such a simple answer to lifes challenges. Thank you! Have you told anyone else yet?

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse

R E M E M B E R
J A C K S O N V I L L E
T E X A S
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse

How about something like--don’t have kids if you can’t support them?  Stay married?  Be responsible for your family? ~Scott

Scott, how about this one too......
Don’t get sick unless you can afford to be not working and in the hospital.

We’re getting real good at this.

How about this one also.....
Don’t have a fire or other emergency unless you can afford to lose everything.

And this one too.....
Don’t have parents if they plan on not being together for life.

If I come up with more I will let you know.
(Life is what happens to you when you make other plans)~John Lennon

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse

R E M E M B E R
J A C K S O N V I L L E
T E X A S
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse

Don’t get sick unless you can afford to be not working and in the hospital. ~Alex

Alex, have you ever CHOSEN to have a myocardial infarction, pulmonary embolism, or serious infection of staphylococcus aureus?  Some people do, though, CHOOSE to engage in unprotected sex when additional children are the last thing they need.

...is the oxy to end all morons! ~Ken V

Kudos to you on that one, Ken V.  I particularly like that turn of phrase.

“Some people do, though, CHOOSE to engage in unprotected sex when additional children are the last thing they need."~Robert J. Trenwick in Dothan, AL

Some people CHOOSE to have unprotected sex because having a family including loving children is a dream of theirs.
Some people have children left over from the good times (such as when they had good paying jobs, or their partner was alive etc.)
What is the proper number of children Americas largest private employer should allow their employee’s to have?
Let me guess. Half a child?

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse

R E M E M B E R
J A C K S O N V I L L E
T E X A S

Alex;

[What is the proper number of children Americas largest private employer should allow their employee’s to have?}

If the employer is to be held responsible for supporting these children, by paying based on the needs of the family, I think it only right that they have some say in the matter.  Maybe they could CHOOSE to hire only people who’s family size meets the ‘living wage’ they are willing to pay an employee.

Why is it, you think an employer should be responsible for everything that affects your life?

Charles, you probably don’t know why you think employers and corporations are to be valued above persons, people, mankind and families as labor in general. To you people are probably seen only as a commodity like the Bentonville attitude towards labor/people. Nevertheless you probably also did not see how easily you ventured into a eugenics advocacy similar to those foundational to Nazi Aryanism and the wealthy American business interests that originated and funded the studies and policy developments more than a hundred years ago.

This attitude that replicates the same type of ‘haves versus have nots’ survival of the economically fittest theories, is a self-evident foolishness disproven repeatedly in history and even overthrown by force of wars usually started by the wealthy themselves.

WalMart- We are still class warfare. Eugenics, wage slavery and tax dodges. We are going to do it better and more efficiently than the Waltons or Prescott Bush ever dreamed.
Those Costco bastards are our main enemy. They treat labor/people decently and avoid the ‘selfishness manifesto’ of Bentonville’s ‘love of money psychopths’.

same old tired b.s.sdv

[What is the proper number of children Americas largest private employer should allow their employee’s to have?}

Some of you bean counters help me out here. Let’s see...Wal-Mart employs about 1.5 million people. Based on the last available number, Wal-Mart’s turnover rate is somewhere in the 40% range, so that means they need about 600,000 new bodies every year (without callculating growth).

I guess Wal-Mart should insist that half of their employees have at least one child per year to insure the supply of disposable associates into the future.

Numbers can be fun.........NOT!

Wal-Mart was named #1 on the Fortune 500 list but that is a size metric that has no real bearing or relation to current shareholders. ~ Jon Ogg

Maybe they could CHOOSE to hire only people who’s family size meets the ‘living wage’ they are willing to pay an employee.
Why is it, you think an employer should be responsible for everything that affects your life?~Charles in Brighton, Tn.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
SanDiegoView made many excellent points in their last post.
Charles in Brighton makes me wonder what his attitude about people in general would be.
Charles do you agree with what Germany did to its own (incurable physical and mental patients) by killing them in secret death hospitals, since the Nazi’s considered they were a burden to the German state?
What about the rest of you (RDS, bbrd’s, Robert J. Trenwick,
JR Reid in FT Worth, and Scott).

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse

R E M E M B E R
J A C K S O N V I L L E
T E X A S

Al,

In the American Army, there is an old saying that’s been around for as long as I can recall:

If we wanted you to have a family, we would’ve issued you one when you joined.

SD,

Funny you should mention Costco…

I’ve been a member since the 90’s since the Price Club days—not because of any “feel good” issues—I just like their merchandise selection/prices.

Fast-forward to 2008.

Still a Costco member, but the nearest store is 30 miles away.

On the other hand, the nearest Sam’s Club (Wal-Mart owned competitor) is about 3 miles away.

As you know, gas is now 4 bucks a gallon—I did a tour of my local Sam’s store, recently—just like Costco, it, too is a warehouse club with bulk-sized packaging of popular grocery items and other lines of merchandise.

What do you think I (and others in my situation) will do??

The Question:
Charles [and bbrd] do you agree with what Germany did to its own (incurable physical and mental patients) by killing them in secret death hospitals, since the Nazi’s considered they were a burden to the German state?

bbrd’s Answer:
“In the American Army, there is an old saying that’s been around for as long as I can recall:
If we wanted you to have a family, we would’ve issued you one when you joined."~bbrd in

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse

R E M E M B E R
J A C K S O N V I L L E
T E X A S

If Walmart treats their employees so terribly, how do they still find 1.8 million people that will work for them?  According to another topic on here Walmart’s average pay was $10.83 which is $22,500 a year which is over the poverty level for a family of four.  Since most families both parents work the average family could make $45,000 which is over double the poverty level for a family of four.  That isn’t bad for a job that requires absolutely no skill, previous experience, or previous training.  Also with no previous experience you can quickly move up the chain to at least an assistant ($40,000+ a year).

“changing employee time cards and forcing them to work off the clock as wage theft.”

They can’t force anyone to work off the clock.  Also Walmart changed it so that if your hours are changed by anyone you get a notice on the timeclock to check it out to see why it was changed so that the few dishonest low level managers can no longer do stupid stuff like that.

3. Family planning and the value system of a nation
The fundamental basis for the Chinese family planning policy decision is the value system of a nation. People have the right to make their own decisions, but they also need to take their social responsibility.
Confucian teaching has been the center of the value system of oriental countries."Confucians point out that people should set the stabilization and prosperity of their country over individual interests” and the ruler of the country should treat his people kindly. Oriental society tends to encourage people not only to work for themselves, but also to take responsibility for society by controlling their behavior. These are the grass roots of the integrated population and development policy of China. In remote areas, people still have a stronger reproductive ambition. There is still a gap between people’s reproductive desire and government policy in some areas [2]. A hard decision has to be made. On the one hand we need to prevent human reproduction, while on the other we need to keep a stable, yet progressive society. In fact, in the economically developed areas, fertility is decreasing significantly [6]. Hopefully, within the next 20-30 years, as the economy develops, there may be a more flexible family program throughout the country. ~~~~~~~~~~~Incidentally,there is a one child rule in China and it is enforced with fines,and in some cases, state required abortions. There are Supreme Court cases here,now,from Chinese seeking asylum from these policies. It is argued that these policies violate Human Rights tenents and guidelines, as Nationalism sets the collective good over the indivdual’s ambitions, at odds with Free Marketeering-the “mefirst Randian “aproach that so dominates the economic marketplace today.With all the posting about Nazigenocide ,etc. and reproductive policies,no one mentioned this ongoing Chinese policy occurring today. I am curious if the number of W/m employees mentioned in this threadncludes Chinese WalMartworkers who ostensibly would be subject to the one-child Chinese government policies.

Al,

Before you go casting stones, again, perhaps you should look at your neighbourhood Tim Horton’s…

http://consumerist.com/5008258/tim-hortons-fires-single-mom-for-giving-a-free-donut-hole-to-a-baby

“When a company such as Wal-Mart is so plainly comfortable with authoritarianism abroad, it tells you something about that company’s values at home. 

The noblest of the Bush administration’s goals, surely, is that of spreading democracy. If it’s serious about that task, though, there are places closer to home than the Middle East that could use a little democracy-spreading. When America’s largest employer feels more affinity for the political legacy of Mao Zedong than for that of Franklin D. Roosevelt, it’s time to start democratizing our own back yard. “~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~"Wal Mao"-Dec.’04 _
Harold Meyerson is editor-at-large of The American Prospect. This column originally appeared in The Washington Post.

SDV,

“To you people are probably seen only as a commodity”

Where did you see anyone say that people are seen as commodities?  What we are saying, is that people’s LABOR is a ‘commodity’ and people sell their labor to an employer, based on what an employer is willing to pay for the service!!

“you ventured into a eugenics advocacy similar to those foundational to Nazi Aryanism”

Sorry, but how you managed to equate ‘personal responsibility’, with eugenics and Nazi Germany, is beyond belief, no one that I have seen here has been advocating ‘killing off’ people, all we have been saying is that it is up to you to steer your future, not your employer!!  While people have CHOICE, they have the ability to change their direction and thus their future!!

“This attitude that replicates the same type of ‘haves versus have nots’ survival of the economically fittest theories, is a self-evident foolishness disproven repeatedly in history and even overthrown by force of wars usually started by the wealthy themselves.”

What a bunch of garbage, the ‘have nots’ have always pushed the ‘economically fitness’ theory and it is ‘disproven’ by the fact that some people have been able to move from one economic level to a higher one!!  As for ‘wars’, they are usually started by the ‘lower class’, trying to pull down the wealthy, not the other way around!!

If everyone works within the system, things progress just fine, it’s only when some go against the system, that problems arise!!  When people feel they deserve to share in part of your labor gains, the system goes out of whack, example, when someone steals from you, even if caught, you end up paying to support them, so for YOU, it becomes a LOSE/LOSE situation, you lost what they stole, plus, you end up paying to support them through taxes!!

Paying people MORE than what their LABOR is worth, only rewards people for poor choices and bad behavior, while punishing people who make good choices and exibit good behavior!!

ddrb,

“People have the right to make their own decisions, but they also need to take their social responsibility.”

Don’t you realize, that if people make the correct decisions, it affects social responsibility, because those decisions will be, in effect, socially responsible?  If a person chooses NOT to depend on you to fulfill their needs and does it by themselves, that has a ‘positive’ social impact!!  Everybody WINS, when people accept ‘personal responsibility’ for their actions and choices!!

Everybody WINS, when people accept ‘personal responsibility’ for their actions and choices!! ~RDS

If everyone wins, what would some complain about?

“While people have CHOICE, they have the ability to change their direction and thus their future!!"RDS(Bob)

True to a degree. However some people have few opportunities. Some people have ample opportunities.

Still having choice doesn’t give employers the ticket to under pay their workforce. Walmart and others have to choice to become a decent employer. They have the ability to change their direction and thus their future.

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Still having choice doesn’t give employers the ticket to under pay their workforce. Walmart and others have to choice to become a decent employer. They have the ability to change their direction and thus their future. ~Alex

Alex, what do you think a Walmart employee should be paid?

“Before you go casting stones, again, perhaps you should look at your neighbourhood Tim Horton’s…"~bbrd in

Hey, are you the Canadian bbrd representative? I think so.
What casting stones are you talking about? Some people have families and they need to be cared for?
By the way, I don’t have to click on your story about the Tim’s situation. It has been on the radio. Not too sure what your point is.I try not to eat TimBits because they taste so good and usually those things are addictive.  However I do enjoy the TimBits sponsered pee wee hockey games the company sponsers between the 2nd and 3rd periods of OHL hockey games!!!

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Alex, what do you think a Walmart employee should be paid?
Robert J. Trenwick in Dothan, AL

Not sure. I guess it depends on the area you live.
Probably if you want to know Robert, get in touch with a local union in your area and they should be able to give you a more specific answer.
I also think that the leader sets the pace. I believe that WM leader Lee Scott makes 28-32 million a year the last couple years.
In conclusion the Chinese workers that Walmart and retailers use to cut cost make 25-30 cents an hour. I wonder if others think that they are making enough too?

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I also think that the leader sets the pace. I believe that WM leader Lee Scott makes 28-32 million a year the last couple years. ~Alex

A CEO is hired and overseen by a board of directors. Directors are elected by stockholders.  Could it be that the investors are pleased with the profits Scott leads Walmart to generate?

...the Chinese workers that Walmart and retailers use to cut cost make 25-30 cents an hour. ~Alex

How does that 25-30 cents per hour compare to the average wage and cost of living in China?

Alex, what do you think a Walmart employee should be paid? ~Robert J. Trenwick

Not sure. I guess it depends on the area you live.  Probably if you want to know Robert, get in touch with a local union in your area and they should be able to give you a more specific answer. ~Alex

Invective aside, Alex, this particular thread illustrates the basic difference between our positions.  I believe no-one can expect, let alone insist upon, wages greater than their job responsibilities and the local labor market will bear. You and others imply, or outright state, that no job should pay less than whatever salary is needed to provide for an individual or family.  Shall ever the twain meet?  I think not.

“Could it be that the investors are pleased with the profits Scott leads Walmart to generate?"~Robert J. Trenwick

Possibly. I wonder if the investors are happy with the profits that the Walmart workers help the company to generate?

“How does that 25-30 cents per hour compare to the average wage and cost of living in China?"~Robert J. Trenwick

Are they living in China?

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“....wages greater than their job responsibilities and the local labor market will bear."~Robert J. Trenwick

“....no job should pay less than whatever salary is needed to provide for an individual or family.~Robert J. Trenwick

So if you are a Walmart worker, you don’t have to be that responsible to give a ‘fair days work for a fair days pay’ since you wouldn’t be able to survive on that pay?

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So if you are a Walmart worker, you don’t have to be that responsible to give a ‘fair days work for a fair days pay’ since you wouldn’t be able to survive on that pay? ~Alex

That would be your CHOICE.

Alex, tell me this...if you work at Walmart and cannot survive on the pay, why stay?

“Could it be that the investors are pleased with the profits Scott leads Walmart to generate?"~Robert J. Trenwick ~~~~~~~~~~~According to the proxy for the Shareholders meeting to be held on June 6,2008 it really doesn’t matter if the shareholders are pleased.According to proxy proposal#8,p.58,WalMart shareholders are urging the board to let shareholders express opinion about Senior executive compensation by establishing an annual compensation referendum(vote) process for them to determine if the compensation as reported is actually in the shareholder’s best interests. The WalMart Board has recommended against this shareholder request,among many other resolutions investors are asking for. (I cannot believe people who put in their money go along with this! )Go to the earlier thread Shareholders Meeting,type in the blue word proxy,and start reading at about page 55.

“If you invest in WallMart ,and cannot have a say,why stay?”

Alex, tell me this...if you work at Walmart and cannot survive on the pay, why stay?

Robert J. Trenwick in Dothan, AL

Running is not the only answer. There is a third choice. I believe that in both countries it is our legal right as citizens to collective bargaining. There is a third choice even if powerful companies like Walmart don’t like it. Remember Robert, we are citizens, not just consumers.

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Alex, disregard the law for a moment.  Why do you feel you have the moral and ethical right to dictate your employer’s actions?

Alex, would you as an employer be happy about being legally forced to give your employees something with which you disagree?

Do employers have any moral and ethical responsibilities toward its employees?Toward the community,Toward the shareholders? To its suppliers? Toward humanity in general?

Do employers have any moral and ethical responsibilities toward its employees? ~ddrb

Of course, but is it a moral and ethical responsibilty of employers to pay an employee more than the value of their labor?

Alex,

“True to a degree. However some people have few opportunities. Some people have ample opportunities.”

Wrong, not to a degree, ‘Everybody’ has the SAME opportunities, if they CHOOSE to use them!!  Now, some people may have a better advantage, but then it is up to the others to find a way to go about things, by WORKING harder to get there, usually through education and work experience!!  You always talk about Lee Scott and his position, didn’t he start out working on the loading dock at a Wal-Mart store?  He advanced through his own efforts, not any ‘special’ opportunities, he was just another worker at that store at the time!!

“Still having choice doesn’t give employers the ticket to under pay their workforce.”

NO employer underpays it’s workforce, they pay what they preceive the job to be worth!!  Then, it is the CHOICE of the workforce as to whether or not they are willing to accept that pay rate!!  If ANY employer underpaid their workforce, they soon would have NO workers!!

“Not sure. I guess it depends on the area you live.”

So, you are saying, that a job shouldn’t pay what VALUE it brings to the company, but rather, how much an employee needs, based on where they live?  So, if I want more pay, I could just move to a higher wage area and still do the same job, right?

“So if you are a Walmart worker, you don’t have to be that responsible to give a ‘fair days work for a fair days pay’ since you wouldn’t be able to survive on that pay?”

Right, but, if you don’t give a ‘fair days work for a fair days pay’, you just might get FIRED!!  Remember, when you hired on, you agreed that the pay you would receive, WAS “FAIR”, or you wouldn’t have taken the job in the first place, after all, why would you take a job that didn’t have ‘fair pay for fair work’?  Or, are you saying that people take a job, so they can later form a union and then FORCE the company to pay you the wage YOU decide you want them to pay, is that your third way?  Are you saying that a company should have NO POWER to set wages at a level they feel will make them a profit and that it should be up to employees to set the wage levels?  Employees already have that POWER without a union, it’s called, “Taking a job that pays what you need, in the first place”, mainly by getting the education and skills necessary to do a ‘higher paying’ job!!

RJT:"As long as we’re managing our company well, as long as we take care of our people and our customers, keep our eyes on those fundamentals, we are going to be successful. Of course, it takes an observing, discerning person to judge those fundamentals for himself.” - Sam Walton

“...as long as we take care of our people...”

ddrb, is a person being paid $12 per hour to stock shelves being taken care of?

RJT: You stated that you were an engineer. I do not know what engineering discipline entails the determination of WalMart’s pay scheduule,nor includes blogging all day about WalMart employment issues. I am quite sure that as an engineer ,you should be able to work out some logarithms or at least know where to locate and establish a paradigm to work from. Perhaps you could go over to Writing on the Wal and inquire of the economist /physicist Robert D.Feinmann. He is certainly equipped to provide you with better metrics than I.

Answers:
RDS(Bob)
1) Nonsense
2) Nonsense
3) Already answered
4) Read it all again.

Robert
1)won’t disregard the law

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ddrb, is a person being paid $12 per hour to stock shelves being taken care of?

Robert J. Trenwick in Dothan, AL

Other interesting questions:

How many hours is this person being scheduled per week?

Are company leaders being paid almost 60 million in two years being taken care of?

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Does anyone know if when you fill out an application for employment at Walmart, is there any questions about if you have children...or a spouse....or aging parents.....or a pet rabbit, so they can eliminate you from the interview list?
Certainly Walmart wouldn’t want to bring in staff who are going to be in over their heads. Just wondering.

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Alex:Sam Walton once said, “Share your profits with all your associates, and treat them as partners.” Despite this advice, the average Wal-Mart wage has gone from $9.35 to $10.83 an hour over the last seven years, a 15.8% increase. Lee Scott’s total compensation, meanwhile, has increased from $21,740,052 to $31,597,424 a year – a 45% rise. To put this in context, it would take a store employee, making $8 an hour, approximately 450 years working 24 hours a day, seven days a week to earn what Wal-Mart’s CEO Lee Scott earns in one year. With statistics like these, it’s no small wonder many shareholders want to see executive compensation reigned in. (WMW-"Shareholders Meeting 2008” Thread)Well cared for indeed.

ddrb

Yes it’s a classic example of ‘Pigs at the trough’.

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RJT: You stated that you were an engineer. I do not know what engineering discipline entails the determination of WalMart’s pay scheduule,nor includes blogging all day about WalMart employment issues. ~ddrb

ddrb, one of the many beautiful things about my job as a senior simulation software engineer is the fact that I work on computers all day.  As I sit with windows open for calculations I am also able to have CNN, WMW, and Wikipedia open in other windows at the same time.  That’s why I can blog.  What about you?

I am quite sure that as an engineer ,you should be able to work out some logarithms or at least know where to locate and establish a paradigm to work from. ~ddrb

I do write software algorithms on a regular basis.

RJT: Well,I will once again refer you to Mr. Feinmann as you both would possibly share an insight to decipher the conundrum you have posed as to the criterion/a for wage determinants.

Alex,

“Does anyone know if when you fill out an application for employment at Walmart, is there any questions about if you have children...or a spouse....or aging parents.....or a pet rabbit, so they can eliminate you from the interview list?”

So, now are we adding aging parents and pets to the ‘family list’, that Wal-Mart is supposed to support for you?  How about uncles and aunts and cousins and grandparents as well, move them all in and Wal-Mart can pay for their NEEDS too, right?  And, how about moving in all of the In-Laws too, just think, you could rack up $400.00 an hour, stocking shelves, with enough relatives and animals, in your ‘living wage’, ‘family unit’!!

Robert,

Did you notice Alex’s “In Depth” answers to our questions?  How long do you think he taxed his brain to come up with them?  Sure has ‘good’ explainations as to why he feels his answers are correct and we were wrong!!  Sheer genuis!!

“Did you notice Alex’s “In Depth” answers to our questions?  How long do you think he taxed his brain to come up with them?"RDS(Bob)

Ok Robert. It is your turn to answer RDS’s questions.
Make sure it contains lots of words and fluff so RDS feels like he is worth having a conversation with.

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It’s good luck to make the 100th comment.

“How fortunate for leaders that men do not think.” ~ Adolph Hitler

“How fortunate for leaders that men do not think.” ~ Adolph Hitler

Especially for union leaders.

“Given Costco’s performance, the question for Wall Street shouldn’t be why Costco isn’t more like Wal-Mart. Rather, why can’t Wal-Mart deliver high shareholder returns and high living standards for its workforce? Says Costco CEO James D. Sinegal: “Paying your employees well is not only the right thing to do but it makes for good business.”

It is not considered an argument that Costco, No. 28 in the Fortune 500, is the fourth-largest retailer in the country and the seventh-largest in the world.
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/
2006/10/30/8391725/index.htm?postversion=2006102515

Wal-Mart founder Sam Walton once said, “I pay low wages. I can take advantage of that. We’re going to be successful, but the basis is a very low-wage, low-benefit model of employment.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Wal-Mart#_note-
iswalmartgood

“Is Wal-Mart Good for America?” PBS. November 16, 2004. Retrieved on February 24, 2007.

“People do not like to think. If one thinks, one must reach conclusions. Conclusions are not always pleasant.”
Helen Keller

WalMart- So what if we megabetrayed American workers by shifting their manufacturing jobs to China. It’s not as if we Bentonville ‘low wage’ ‘love of money’ psychopaths are going to share out a ‘living wage’ from the huge Global Labor Arbitrage profits with our ‘associates’ like those bastards over at Costco do paying an average of $17/hr and 92% paid health care benefits.

Jonathan,

That was a decent review that got a lot of comments. I’m saddened that none of them were on topic. I may have to read that book.