Congress To Walmart: Stop Selling Nazi T-shirts

Good to know Congress is hard at work protecting us from Nazi t-shirts.  I trust they will be sending a cease and desist letter to VW next week.  I mean they’ve been allowing Nazi cars to be sold here for 50 years.  Good to know my tax dollars are being spent by the fashion police. 

Peace

“the products still appear on shelves, and in some cases are still avaliable to purchase.”

In what cases, are the shirts on the shevles and NOT available for purchase?

I thought the skull and cross bones were pirate symbols!!  And what’s with the “Since 1978” below the skull, was that the year the Nazi’s started in the U.S.?

jerry in

All you have to do is take a look at the SS officers WW2 uniform to see that this is a NAZI insignia. Just because this particular NAZI company has only been around since 1978 doesnt mean that their symbole doesn’t pre-date WW2. Would you still argue if it were a SWASTIKA?

DAVE SMITH
PROUD UNION IRONWORKER

Davie

Yes, the concept is still the same even if the symbol is different.  Actually, the argument is even stronger for the swastika because its at least several hundred years old.  You will find swastikas in native american art work as well as other cultures that predates the nazis.  If this company wants to make shirts with this symbol on it and Wal-Mart wants to sell it more power to them.  Why does it matter to you?  If you find it offensive you won’t buy it , you’ll let your dollar speak for you.  This is still a free country Davie.  If you want to have a slogan on your shirt that is offensive to some you can.  If you want to market and sell said apparel you can.  That’s freedom of speech baby.  You exercise your freedom by not buying it.  Very simple really.  Doesn’t require congressional interfernce and wasted tax dollars.  Does anyone else see the humor in the fact that Barney Frank was one of the signers of the “congressional fashion police” letter.  Sorry couldn’t resist.  It’s humor people don’t stone me. 

Peace

These shirts are “still” on the shelves? I’m going to go out on a limb here, and venture to say that this is only hurting Wal-Mart’s pocket book. The sales generated from selling the actual t-shirts, probably won’t come close to making up for all the “lost” sales generated from them selling the t-shirts in the first place. I’m sure alot of customers aren’t to happy about it. After all, it is the “Death’s Head” emblem. Sure, they might profit from the sales of Ku Klux Klan t-shirts, but what kind of business would they lose in return??? Makes no difference to me.

Tony

I agree totaly with most of what you posted. I also believe that freedome of speach is of ut most inportance. I also believe that that nazi symbole is, a nazi symbole. What I have a real problem with though is that people try to minimize the evil that it represents, and stands for as well as come to symbolize.

As for the swastika being a native American symbole, The only one that I am familiar with is one that faces the opposite (a mirror immage of the NAZI swastika) I know this because it can be found on a pre-WW2 bridge in Jhonstone Park in Bartlesville Ok. and when I saw them as a child I looked up their meaning and found the difference. They were not the same as the NAZI swastika. They, unlike the NAZI symbole, are a symbole of good fortune.

DAVE SMITH
PROUD UNION IRONWORKER

Tony wrote: “It’s humor people...”

It sounds more like homophobia.

Nazi insignia or not, apparently some people found it offensive but rather than quietly removing the shirts, the morons in Bentonville took it as an opportunity for another PR blackeye.

The next thing you know Wal-Mart will be selling books with pictures of naked Supreme Court Justices!  :o)

Just a suggestion for Reichministers L. Scott and M. Williams on the small PR problem with these t-shirts. Give them to your ‘associates’ as their 10 year reward emblem/token from the company (WalMart/I.G.Farben) showing the true relationship they have with management. Get Chambers to write the company memo on this. And add a SWASTIKA if you really think its OK. Tony Smith won’t mind-

WalMart- We need a bigger gun for shooting ourselves in the PR foot.

Ken V,

“Nazi insignia or not, apparently some people found it offensive but rather than quietly removing the shirts, the morons in Bentonville took it as an opportunity for another PR blackeye.”

This is part of a big problem, that if Wal-Mart had to react to EVERYONE one of those “some people” that find things offensive, they might just as well shut their doors.  The fact that people can disagree on almost anything, shows that “some people” might find, at some time or another, everything offensive.  As for the t-shirts, maybe it just might be a ‘good’ thing to remind people of how bad that period of time actually was.  Young people who haven’t had to experience things, tend to forget the mistakes of the past and if we let them be forgotten, there is a chance that they can be ignored in the future and ultimately repeated.  As long as the ideals of the symbol are not embraced, the symbol remains just a reminder of past horrors.  Like Tony Smith said, should we get rid of VW cars, because they were originately developed by Hitler?

Controversy Creates Cash

The Nazi “era” was 1933-1945 (exactly the same as the FDR era? Coincidence?) This picture seems to be that of a skull minus the crossbones from the Jolly Roger, the internationally recognized flag of piracy.

As for the Swastika being a Nazi symbol (you can’t spell Ironhead) read this intro from Wikipedia:

“The swastika (from Sanskrit svástika स्वास्तिक ) is an equilateral cross with its arms bent at right angles, in either left-facing (卍) or right-facing (卐) direction. The term is derived from Sanskrit Svasti meaning-well being, the Thai greeting sawasdee has the same implication.

It is a widely-used sacred symbol in Dharmic religions (Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism). Hindus often decorate the Swastika with a dot in each quadrant. In India, it is common enough to be a part of several Devanagari fonts. It is also a symbol in the modern unicode. It is often imprinted on religious texts, marriage invitations etc. It is used to mark religious flags in Jainism and to mark Buddhist temples in Asia.

Archaeological evidence of swastika shaped ornaments goes back to the Neolithic. During 1920-1945, the Swastika was used as a Nazi symbol, and has become a controversial symbol as a consequence. In the Western world, it is thus most widely known and used as a symbol of Nazism (the Hakenkreuz, “hook-cross") and this political association has partly eclipsed its historical status in the West.”

Now, let’s say I take the symbol of the Christian cross and put it on T-Shirts. Then I sell those T-shirts to a bunch of thugs who claim it as their own while committing unspeakable acts of violence. Is it the Cross that is evil or has it been misused by a group of morons? Should people stop wearing crosses because a cross might remind someone that some lame group once used it for a symbol?

Very confusing, I know.

EllisW in

I’m glad to see you minimizing the nazi’s symble of evil. as far as that “skull” it is the very same one that is worn on SS oficers head gear. Not the “Jolly Roger” that you are trying to play it off as. I think your subtal attempt to defend the nazi’s pretty well shows your true collors.

DAVE SMITH
PROUD UNION IRONWORKER

MY NAME IS ELLIS [ DUNGHEAD] NO MATER HOW YOU SPELL
IT S---HEAD, FECE-HEAD .

EllisW,

You are just wasting your time trying to explain things to Davie, he is so wrapped up in his own little world and can’t accept anything other than his own views.  Notice how he took what you said and spun it, twisted it and warped it out of shape and then tried to pass you off as the one that was WRONG.  Guys like this, think the symbols are more important than the actual events.  That is why they have such a problem with people who burn the flag, to them, the flag means more than the FREEDOM it represents.  Just because some idoits misuse symbols, doesn’t make the symbols ‘Evil’ as Davie Boy says, only the deeds the idiots do are Evil.  I understood what you were saying, too bad it is way above Davie’s head.

And, did you see where Davie said that we should follow others with Universal Health Care and stated that Germany was one of the examples of countries to be admired.

Boob

First of all I’m a card carring member of the ACLU (they are swarn to protect the Constution of the United States Thats their sole purpose). Secondly I’m a yellow dog Democrat and a LIBERAL. So none of that goes along with squashing the FIRST AMENDMENT.

You just can’t read, can you. I have at NO time said that WM should stop selling those shirts. I only said that they represented an evil group of WW2 nazi’s and that trying to minimize that what it represented was EVIL pure and simple. You are the one that is trying to twist things.

Boob just so you know not all Germans were nazi’s just like all Americans arn’t NAZI’s. Just because they once had a nut in controle doesn’t make them any worse than us with the same type of NAZI that we currently have in the White House. BTW Boob I was stationed there and lived on the German economy, what do you base your experiance on. I don’t blame the citizens for their Government, after all how can we throw stones with this bunch in the White House.

As for burning the flag. Though I don’t nessaraly agree with it, I do believe that it is ones own right to express their feelings of decent in what ever peacefull mannor that they see fit. After all it is freedome of speach, Just because I don’t personaly agree with flag burning, I would fight to my last breath to protect your right to do it. So before you start trying to put words in my mouth you should at least get your facts straight

Before you get started, I was in the 82nd airborne for 6 years and saw combat with them. I put my ass out there for this country. Thats more than you can say about this war time deserter thats in the White House. Or about yourself for that matter. BTW Boob, where were you durring the Viet Nam War?

DAVE SMITH
PROUD UNION IRONWORKER

IRONHEADED,

“that trying to minimize that what it represented was EVIL pure and simple”

Where did you see anyone here minimizing the holocaust?

“Boob just so you know not all Germans were nazi’s “

I hope not, considering my grandparents were German!!

“BTW Boob, where were you durring the Viet Nam War?”

What difference does that make?  But, if you must know, I was 4F and not draftable.  One thing I wasn’t though, was one of those Jane Fonda (liberal) types that spit on the soldiers when they returned.  My brother and brother-in-law were in Viet Nam and my cousin was killed there, so, I do know a little about the war there.

Boob

Anouther “armchair quater back”.

DAVE SMITH
PROUD UNION IRONWORKER

Dave—I didn’t want to post on here but a few things you wrote puzzle me.

Did you serve in Germany during the Vietnam war or were
you in Vietnam?  you said you lived off the Germans.

As a “Nam” vet how in the world could you have voted for
the “traitor” John Kerry?  Or don’t you believe any of the true stories about him.

Since you are a card carying member of the ACLU, you need to check how often they protect the Constitution or work to tear it’s fabric apart.  Also what do you know about the founder of the ACLU?  To what party did it’s founder belong?  As usual thanks in advance for answering.

Bob wrote: “...that if Wal-Mart had to react to EVERYONE one of those “some people” that find things offensive...”

You can’t deny Wal-Mart’s long history of reacting to a vocal segment of their customer base (southern evangelical conservatives) under the guise of “family values”. Over the years Wal-Mart has been criticized for it’s censorship policy and, for whatever reason, appears to have abandoned it’s old ways.

When you see how this t-shirt issue has gained legs, you wonder if anyone in Bentonville is paying attention.  How many shirts would Wal-Mart have to sell to make up for the bad press?

Granted, Nazi t-shirts will never reach the level of “Blogging Across America” or “Julie Does Bentonville” but like so many things coming out of Wal-Mart lately it just seems....well....stupid!

Bob in - attempts this crap
Friday, February 09 at 11:23 PM

“Just because some idoits misuse symbols, doesn’t make the symbols ‘Evil’ as Davie Boy says, only the deeds the idiots do are Evil. I understood what you were saying, too bad it is way above Davie’s head.”

Bob, perhaps you will stamp/carve/branding iron/tattoo the number 666 on your forehead as a demonstration of your belief in your statement. You and EllisW fit the Biblical profile for this so why not take the integrity of your views and make them real.
Perhaps the concept is way ‘above your head’.

WalMart- We pay bloggers to evade and distort information.

Knowledgeable in

“As a “Nam” vet how in the world could you have voted for
the “traitor” John Kerry?  Or don’t you believe any of the true stories about him.”

First of all I never said that I was a Viet Nam Vet. I went to that little war that was fought so that Reagen could be called a war time President. You remember Grenada? Not much of a war, but I guess getting shot at is still getting shot at. As for Germany I lived on the “Economy” (off post) while I was in there.

As far as John Kerry being a “traitor”, I don’t believe that he was any more a traitor than Max Clealand or John Mcain. That was all Propaganda that was orchastrated by the White House under the very close supervison of Carl Rove. It was discusting to see these mens reputations soiled by those skumbags in the White House. You know the ones that I speak of. Remember ole George “AWOL” Bush. But I think that AWOL more than 30 days is DESERTION and I do believe that DESERTION durring war time can be punishable by the fireing squad! If thats not a TRAIDOR I don’t know what is! Then theres that draft dodger Vice- President. The only time he ever got to shoot anyone was when he was Drunk and shooting his hunting buddies.

Knowledgeable, remember just because you hear it on FOX news doesn’t make it true.

DAVE SMITH
PROUD UNION IRONWORKER

Dave:  I agree virtually 100% with everything you’ve said.  I’m also pleased to see you are a proud union worker.  Here’s the problem--you need badly to work on your spelling and punctuation.  Blogging isn’t the same as teenagers IMing each other.  When you spell “symbol” wrong two different ways (just one example), you give the idiots fodder to attack you vs. your opinions.

BLOCKHEAD

You have courage, my friend. Not many people would admit to belonging to the ACLU. Of course, if you are proud of your membership, you tell everyone around you all they need to know about you. Just like membership in the KKK, Black Panthers, Al Queda or The Nation Of Islam would identify you as a person with very clear views on certain subjects. We know where you stand.

Did you know that the ACLU defends NAMBLA, which published a book encouraging older men to take young boys for lovers and showing them how to get away with it? The ACLU defends terrorists who are plotting to blow up Americans but they don’t defend Americans who are fighting for their right to NOT get blown up. The ACLU has a lot in common with the Communist Party, if you really investigate them. Why does the ACLU claim to be defending my Constitution? Have they read the Constitution? Are foreigners covered by the Constitution? Do non-citizens have Constitutional rights? Why is the ACLU so anti-American?

Why do liberals claim to be for “choice”. Do aborted babies get a choice? Do you realize its only a short hop from murdered babies to killing sick people and senior citizens because they cannot live without assistance? Do you value human life? Why is it that a mother gets a choice regarding abortion but the father and the child have no say in the matter? Why do liberals claim to be “tolerant” when they are intolerant of any speech or thought that does not agree with theirs?

Dave-I am ashamed of you. The ACLU is anti-American and you belong. What does that say about you? Let’s talk about some of the political names you dropped.

John McCain-War Hero, POW, great guy. Also a poor public servant. Co-sponsored McCain-Feingold, which takes away the CONSTITUTIONAL rights of citizens to criticize their leaders and run effective anti-incumbant campaign ads. He is also a social moderate, certainly not strong enough on immigration and morals to suit me. He is tough on defense, which is great, but his social views are scary. And his taking away of our rights is troubling.

Max Cleand-Wounded vet who was injured while NOT in combat. He was playing with a grenade and he dropped it. It blew him up. For his stupidity, he is called a hero. What a joke!

John Kerry-This lowlife came home from Vietnam, where he served with less than courageous distinction, and threw his medals away at a war protest. (Actually, they were someone else’s medals. He kept his). He wore the uniform when he testified before Congress, on television, that he personally witnessed US soldiers raping, killing, torturing, burning and stealing like crazed lunatics. He never once reported any of these “incidents” while he was in Vietnam and he never provided any evidence or witnesses when he returned and smeared the troops. He made these statements for political gain, hoping the anti-war liberal loons would support him politically. He sold out and betrayed the troops and the uniform he wore. He is a coward and a traitor.

EllisW in

One thing that can be counted on by the people of this planet, The sun will rise in the east and you will respond with ignorant posts. You are truly funny with your stupidity and right winged rhetoric! You need to stop listening to Rush and Hannity and change the channel from your freinds at FOX news to somthing thats truly “fair and balanced”. You realy are a the poster boy for “garbage in, garbage out!

The ONLY purpuse for the ACLU is to protect and defend the CONSTUTION. PERIOD!!!!!  The dangerous ones here are the ones that try to tear down the constitution and only use it when it suits there needs. The right wing is great at this, stiffleing free speach whenever possible, peoples right to free assembly, right to privacy, ect..........The truth is the CONSTUTION makes AMERICA what it is. How could it be un-American to fight to protect it? Just because you don’t like it, you would call someone that does believe in it’s princapals un-American. So where would you draw the line at FREEDOME?...... Its book burning NAZI"S like you that are UN-AMERICAN. It’s always people like you that refuse to do your part for your country, then stand back and call everyone else un-American. You are such a JOKE!!!!!

DAVE SMITH
PROUD UNION IRONWORKER

Davie

Nice dodge of the content in Ellis W post.  You bob and weave as artfully as Kerry changed positions in the ‘04 election. 

“Remember ole George “AWOL” Bush.”

I find it fascinating that you bring up these allegations.  What about your favorite President Bill’s draft dodging ways?  If you call one out you have to call them all.  No selective amnesia Davie.  Also, for goodness sake please, please, please run your posts through spell check.

Peace

EllisW,

Wasn’t it the ACLU, that fought to allow the American Nazi Party to have a march through a Jewish community a number of years ago?

“Do you value human life?”

Dave sure does value human life, if it’s the life of a criminal or illegal immigrant.

Then, he criticizes me for not serving in Viet Nam, because I was not draftable and then brags about serving in Grenada, how long did that WAR last, a couple of days!!!  I have a friend, who brags about serving in “Desert Storm”, he was a supply clerk stationed in Saudi Arabia during the war.

Also, notice in his post to knowledgeable, “That was all Propaganda”, he sure does like to use that phrase, doesn’t he?  To him, everything that doesn’t fall into his views, is Propaganda!!

Lastly, he criticizes you by saying, “Its book burning NAZI"S like you that are UN-AMERICAN.”, wasn’t it you who wanted him, to READ some books?  He does read books, Comic Books and takes them as Non-Fiction.

Ellis W.  Your posts are quite accurate and informative, but wasted on most who read because they know nothing about this country and how the pieces fit together.

Dave 2/10 @ 12:59AM
You asked Bob where he was during Vietnam and because of that and the body of your post, I assumed that you served during Vietnam.  You did not make it clear

Dave in my post of 2/10 @ 3:05 I asked if you know what party the founder of the ACLU belonged to?  Do you know who he was?

You made a remark in your post of 2/10 @1:51PM that I got my news from FOX.  Sorry Dave you are again incorrect.  I listen to FOX and many other channels.  I don’t watch any TV news.  I do much research to hear from various news sources to sift out the truth.  You should do the same and
you will be surprised how much you can learn.

It is a free country and you can post what you wish, however one shouldnot write things about which you have no facts or knowledge, you make yourself seem foolish. 

You and others can disagree if you wish as to what Ellis does write, however if you do the homework you will find that he is correct in about 95-97 o/o of what he writes.  You so hate Republican Presidents, so tell me what Democratic President you admire over the past l00 years.  I personally did like the charisma of JFK and did vote for him.

Boob

There you go again reafirming my afiliation with the ACLU. It’s people like you that caused me to join in the first place.

When we as citizens begain to “pick and choose” those that should have their constutional rights taken away, every one loses. It’s a very slipery slope, when you start to denie any group their rights, no matter how discusting you may find them. So if you choose not to let those NAZI’s march, because you don’t like what they stand for, whats next? Do we start to take away gay peoples right to free speach, then what about those damned liberals, and how about those muslems, and those catholics, and how about teachers, what about writers and news papers? Where do you bunch of narrow minded ASSES want to draw the line? With you?

See Boob, thats the diference with you and me. Just because I don’t like the group and even though they may sicken me to my core, I will fight for their rights to be upheld. While you and the rest of those right wingers try to take them from anyone that doesn’t agree with you or say what you want to hear. I’m glad that you are out there blogging for the other side, you sure show every ony how your side realy thinks, and what you are truly like.

BTW Boob, those “ideals “ of yours are very much the same as those used by Hitler and the NAZI’s. Just food for thought.

DAVE SMITH
PROUD UNION IRONWORKER

IROHEADED,

“When we as citizens begain to “pick and choose” those that should have their constutional rights taken away, every one loses. It’s a very slipery slope, when you start to denie any group their rights, no matter how discusting you may find them. So if you choose not to let those NAZI’s march, because you don’t like what they stand for, whats next?”

I never said that I wanted to deny anybody, their rights, but it is people like you, that want to PICK AND CHOOSE, not me.  You want to deny Wal-Mart, all kinds of RIGHTS!!!  The RIGHT to remain non union, the RIGHT to sell goods from any source, even other countries, the RIGHT to pay their employees as they see fit, the RIGHT to offer benefits as they see fit, The RIGHT not to have the land they paid for taken from them, the RIGHT to operate their business as they see fit, and many other RIGHTS, too numerous to mention.

I believe everyone has RIGHTS, that is why I say, “If you don’t like Wal-Mart, you have the RIGHT to shop elsewhere and if you don’t like your job, you have the RIGHT to work elsewhere and if I like to shop at Wal-Mart, I have the RIGHT to do so”.  You do have the RIGHT to talk like an idiot, but we have the RIGHT to call you on it.  And that is not RIGHT-wing Propaganda.

As for the Nazi’s marching, I have NO problem with that, this is America after all, you seem to be the one who has a problem with Nazi t-shirts and calling people Nazis.  I say, if you don’t like the Nazis marching, go shopping at Wal-Mart, while they are marching!!!

Someone above wrote:
“I believe everyone has RIGHTS, that is why I say...,”
Yet this same person wants to pretend that you don’t have the right to a fairer workplace through collective bargaining.
He even supports the destruction of your rights by supporting a company like Walmart that thinks it is above the spirit of the law.

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse.
We will NEVER forget what you did Walmart.
Never.

Boob

“Wasn’t it the ACLU, that fought to allow the American Nazi Party to have a march through a Jewish community a number of years ago?”

You were eluding to the fact that they should not have been allowed to march and that the ACLU did somthing wrong by standing up for them. Then you said.

“I never said that I wanted to deny anybody, their rights”

Well which is it Boob?

Boy, talk about talking out of both sides of your mouth.

As for Wal*Mart, You and the rest of the pro-WM’s have made it so clear, WM is NOT a person or people. They are a “VEHICLE”, and as far as I know, there are NO provitions for a “VEHICLE” having rights in the constitution. There for IT doesn’t have the same rights under the constitution as a person does. So how can I try to take any constitutional rights away from an inantament object, that has none. That would then be like taking the “constitutional right” of my car to have it’s oil changed, or tires roteted. Sory it just doesn’t work that way. Legal rights and “constitutional” and legal rights are not always the same. Now, Boob, I as the owner, have “constitutional rights”, see how that works?

DAVE SMITH
PROUD UNION IRONWORKER

THIS SITE SUCKS

Bob - If this site “sucks” so bad, then why are you such a regular on it?

IRONHEADED,

“You were eluding to the fact that they should not have been allowed to march”

I wasn’t ELUDING to any such thing, I was just stating a fact!!!  But, I was trying to make the point, that you speak out of both sides of your mouth, wanting to grant RIGHTS to some, but denying RIGHTS to others.  Your ACLU grants the right to march to nazis, but you refuse rights to Wal-Mart.

“You and the rest of the pro-WM’s have made it so clear, WM is NOT a person or people. They are a “VEHICLE”, and as far as I know, there are NO provitions for a “VEHICLE” having rights in the constitution.”

See, this is an example of how you twist things to fit your agenda, while Wal-Mart is a “VEHICLE for sales”, it is owned and manned by PEOPLE, just as the NAZI PARTY is a “VEHICLE for hateful thought”, that is manned by people, so if the NAZI PARTY’S people have RIGHTS under the Constitution, why doesn’t WAL-MART’S people have RIGHTS under that same Constitution?  Besides, we were talking about paying taxes, at the time, not about having RIGHTS!!  Read, Boy, Read!!!

That last part about your car, was so confusing, I won’t attempt to answer it.  Did anybody undertand it?

No, Bob, I really don’t understand what Dave is talking about. He seems to be saying that he doesn’t change his VEHICLE’s oil, or something to that effect. He needs to understand that Wal-Mart is not legally considered “an inantament object” (neither is his car, for that matter), but rather a fictional person with many of the same rights as people, including some constitutional rights (I didn’t see where he was going with that distinction between “legal” and “constitutional” rights, either.). I encourage Dave to check out Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad Company to see what the Supreme Court had to say on the matter.

The original intent of incorporation was to limit liability, a necessary tool for stimulating business. A corporation is like a player at a table stakes poker game. You put your ‘bet’ in the pot then win, lose, or draw, that’s it!  Your Rolex or the Beemer you drove to the game in are not up for grabs.

It’s when these corporate giants with their battalions of lawyers gain the status of “a fictional person with many of the same rights as people” that I get a little queasy.

Incorporation should limit liability but not responsibility.

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the tea shirt is protected under the first amendment ...freedom of speech......but Wally world agreed to take them off their shelves...that is the bottom line and as usual they broke their promise ....this is standard operating procedure for them....you can all piss and moan about the wars and politics all you want...that is your right....but remember the point is this is another in a long line of Wal Mart broken promises

Ken V

Don’t worry about corporations limiting liability and responsibility. The ridiculous Sarbanes Oxley Act took care of that. Now, Directors are PERSONALLY liable for corporate governance. CEO’s are PERSONALLY responsible for every form the corporation files with the IRS, the SEC and the federal government. Now, if some low level accountant makes a simple, honest error on a form, the CEO can be held liable. He can go to prison and have to pay heavy fines. So can directors.

It used to be, you had to be extremely qualified just to be a CEO. Now, you have to be omnipotent as well. Whenever Lee Scott or any CEO signs off on financial statements, they taka a risk. In addition to the normal requirements for rising to the CEO level, now candidates have to be willing to put themselves on the line. This is one of many reasons why CEOs earn so much money. Another reason is that many CEOs are compensated with stock options. In the last 4 years, corporate profits have soared. Stock prices have followed. This is why you hear so much about CEO pay. A good CEO might earn $4 million in salary and bonus and $20 million in stock options. Would the average worker take a base salary of $20,000 with the option to earn another $100,000 in bonuses if he performed well? $4 million may sound like a lot of money and it is but when you compare what CEO’s have to deal with to what other professions pull down, they are almost always underpaid by comparison. Fund managers can earn $20-$400 million in a good year and many have. Investment bankers can get a $30 million year end bonus (and many did). Traders can earn upwards of $15 million in bonuses (many did). The hacks at Goldman Sachs earned something like $20 BILLION in year end bonuses for shuffling money around. Not for managing, building, producing or creating but for moving money around.

And you think Lee Scott is overpaid?

IRONHEADED,

You say that corporations are “an inantament object” and have no rights, but then, how can they be sued?  I can’t sue your car, can I?  But, I could sue you as the owner of the car.  A Wal-Mart store, is “an inantament object”, but a building is not the corporation, which is a group of people and that group of people DO have RIGHTS!!!

Boob

You are the one that keeps saying that WM is “nothing more than a vehicle for taxes” that it is not people, those are your words NOT MINE. Now you want to argue that WM has the rights of people. Well which is it BOOB? You ceep arguing in circles. Why don’t you make up your mind and then get back to me.

DAVE SMITH
PROUD UNION IRONWORKER

Ironhead
you are right...but trying to explain it to “Boob’ is a waste of time and space...he just dosen’t get it and he never will...he would fit in well on the Board of Directors for Wally World

IRONHEAD,

I’m sorry that you can’t understand basic principles, but that’s not my fault.  I am talking about taxes and you are talking about RIGHTS, Let’s see if I can get through this time, okay?  Wal-Mart is the NAME of a corporation, that is owed by people (stockholders), Wal-Mart, as a corporation acts as a ‘vehicle’ between the owners and the community.  Wal-Mart pays people, who in turn pay taxes.  The corporation itself has no money, therefore, it pays no taxes, all taxes that are paid by the company, are paid FOR the stockholders.  As for Rights, the corporation itself, has no rights, but, the owners of the corporation DO have rights as people, therefore, as the corporation is made up of a bunch of people, under the name of the corporation, those people have both rights and the ability to pay taxes, even though the corporation is in essense just a NAME, Wal-Mart, is just a NAME for the group of investors that OWN the entity, known as Wal-Mart.  And, the money generated to pay employees, pay taxes and reward investors, originally comes from customers, therefore, it is people who drive the company NAMED Wal-Mart.

As I have posted several times previously—to completely understand how this all works, get the following book.  It is easily read and hopefully understood

“THE FAIR TAX BOOK” by John Linder/Neil Bortz

knowledgeable in

You mean “the UNFAIR tax Book” don’t you. If I’m not mistaken it’s the one that puts the heaviest portion of the taxes on those that are most unable to shoulder the weight of it. And gives the nar do well children of the wealthiest people in this country basicly a free pass. Given lifestyles that they don’t earn. Recieving millions tax free just because they are born into a family. Never having to pay taxes ever again. Tax free on dividens, only taxed on what they spend in this country. Is that the one that you speak of. Oh ya, thats fair. HA,HA,HA

While the middle class are taxed for almost every purchase that the make. They unlike the very wealthy are basicly taxed on every dime that they earn, because they don’t have any real descressionary spending. They spend most or all that they earn just trying to get by. You know for all those luxurys like food and shelter...... Yup, thats the Christian way, put all the cost on those that can’t aford it. After all thats what Jesus would do.(just for those of you out there that won’t be able to catch it,/Boob/ the last two sentences were sarcasm).

DAVE SMITH
PROUD UNION IRONWORKER

knowledgeable,

“You mean “the UNFAIR tax Book” don’t you. If I’m not mistaken it’s the one that puts the heaviest portion of the taxes on those that are most unable to shoulder the weight of it.”

As you can see, by Dave’s statement, he has NO more grasp of the TAX system, than he does about how a corporation works.  I guess he doesn’t have a clue about tax brackets and how the wealthy pay at the highest tax bracket and lower middle class, pay at the lowest tax bracket.  He also fails to acknowledge that the poor, pay NO income tax at all and in cases where they have children, they can get back much more than they put in as their refund!!!  The average middle class taxpayer, doesn’t even come close to what wealthy taxpayers pay.  I know, it an old MYTH, that wealthy people DON’T pay ANY taxes, but, it is only a MYTH propagated by ‘poor’ people and has NO basis in reality.  It is also, a MYTH that Businesses do not pay taxes, but, this is only a MYTH as well, as taxes are paid on profits, (after expenses).  Guess this is why most people have such a hard time understanding the value of saving, investing and how the world really works and so readily believe everything that sounds GOOD to them and makes them feel better about why they are where they are in life.  To them, “It’s always someone else’s fault, why I’m on the bottom rung of the ladder, never mine”.

IRONHEADED,

“If I’m not mistaken it’s the one that puts the heaviest portion of the taxes on those that are most unable to shoulder the weight of it. “

Try using your brain for a minute, okay?  If the poor pay no income tax and the wealthy and business pay no taxes, where does the money come from to support a Federal Budget that is in the Trillions?  How much would it be, for each person, if they were paying All of the taxes?  At about 200 million people, that actually pay taxes, each one would have to pay about $15,000.00 income tax each year, did you pay your $30,000.00 this year, yet?

Boob

Face it you have NO idea what you are talking about. I was posting to Knowledbable about a book that he recomended “THE FAIR TAX BOOK” by John Linder/Neil Bortz Then you chime in “uninvited” and as usual and haven’t a clue what is being talked about, then you go off and try to explain the U.S. tax code to the world, and you were of course as usual WAY out of bounds. Just so you know, the “fair tax” that Knowledgable was referring to is a federal sales tax. So Boob like your parents used to tell you SPEAK WHEN SPOKEN TOO and maybe next time and you wont look like such a dumb ass.

DAVE SMITH
PROUD UNION IRONWORKER

BONEHEAD

Let me explain something to you and this is a verifiable fact. In 2004, the top 1% of income earners paid 36.7% of federal income taxes and 25.3% of all federal taxes. The top 20% of income earners paid 67.1% of all federal taxes. Families in the bottom 40% of income earners (incomes below $36,300) typically paid NO INCOME TAX and, for the most part, received REFUNDS from the federal government.

Do you understand that? Maybe you can understand this. If I gross $10 million and normally pay $3.5 million in federal taxes and you gross $50,000 and pay $10,000 in federal taxes and we both get a 10% tax cut, I will keep $350,000 more of my own money, while you will keep $1,000 more. Now, I am receiving more money, hence “Tax Cuts For The Rich”. However, since I paid $3,490,000 more in taxes than you did, it only follows that I will get to keep more of my own money. “Tax Cuts For The Rich” is nothing more than class warfare and the politics of envy. Obviously, a wealthy person will keep more of their own money because-TA DA-THEY PAY MORE IN TAXES!!!!!!!

We should not tax dividends and we should cut taxes on interest to 10% or less. This would make investment in this country more attractive. This would lead to a huge influx of capital, which would finance businesses and create jobs and tax revenues. But of course, you already knew that, right?

IRONHEAD,

“Just so you know, the “fair tax” that Knowledgable was referring to is a federal sales tax.”

Gee, I thought the system we had now, was referred to as the “Fair Tax System” and the Federal Sales Tax was called the “Consumption Tax” or “Value Added Tax”.  As far as I ever saw, knowledgeable, was talking about our current system and how you didn’t seem to know how it worked, as you kept talking about how the ‘rich’ and corporations, never paid taxes.  Besides, there is a provision in the Federal Sales Tax proposal, that gives a refund of all taxes paid to people who earn under a certain yearly wage.

Ironhead and Bob --

You both have it wrong and do not understand what this book is all about.

It eliminates the IRS by repealing the 16th Amendment to the Constituition (this is what put the Income Tax into existence).

It is a national sales tax in that it is added to the final cost of goods.  It is not a valuje added tax (as you said Bob) You have to understand it is not a flat tax or anything as such.
It gets RID of the IRS.  I cannot explain it all on here.

As I said,. everyone buy a copy or get from the Library.
The Fair Tax Book by Congressman John Linder and Radion Show Host Neil Bortz.  It’s bi-partisan.

Make it easy to learn the basics.  www.fairtax.org

knowledgeable in

I know exactly what it is, read my post.

I just don’t think for one moment that it is fair. It puts more burden on the the sholders of themiddle class. Because they have no discressionary spending. They are taxed on EVERY dime they earn because it costs them that to live. While the wealthy get taxed only on what they spend in the UNITED STATES. Rich spoiled rotten brats get a free ride for the rest of their lives, on money that they never earned. They never pay a tax again, all they have to do is move to Purto Rico and get it all. Andrew Carnegy said, he believed that the “ESTATE TAX” should be 100%, He said that the kids of the wealthy already had every advantage given to them, the best education, and most importantly, business contacts. He said that that should be enough of an advantage, and that if they couldn’t make it with that they didn’t deserve it. That tax puts to much on those that can least aford it, while giving a free ride to the richest.

DAVE SMITH
PROUD UNION IRONWORKER

knowledgeable:

I agree with Dave Smith, what is fair about making everybody pay for their way through life, some, like the poor, deserve the free ride, not rich people. 

First, we should nationalize all businesses and then give everybody a monthly allowance to live off of (say $3,000.00 a month for each person in a household) and if you need more, just have another child (that’s another $3,000.00).  Then we give free unlimited healthcare to everyone.  And, when a person reaches the age of 18, the government lets that person shop for everything they need to build a life for themselves, a home, car, furniture, etc., all financed by the government and to be paid back from the allowance.  And for that future allowance, you can pick where you want to work and what you want to do there, set your own hours or come and go at will or not work at all if you choose.  Then, when a person dies, the government takes away all of the money he/she might have saved up, as that was money they must have not needed in the first place and all of their assets as well.

How does that sound to you Dave?

I love it Jerry quite hilarious. 

Peace

Jerry

How soon can I sign up.  What the “hell” am I working for

(Dave- I don’t like to make personal comment, but you are totally ignorant (stupid) in relation to what I wrote.  Don’t comment on the Fair Tax Book until you have read it!!)_

knowledgeable in

Or what? Is that a threat? Are you dictating what I may or may not comment on?

Trying to Stiffel decent I see. Just because I don’t agree with that tax system, one that unfairly puts the largest percent of tax on those that can’t afford it. It doesn’t matter what propaganda is written in that book. The “tax” is still the same. Giving breaks to those that need it least.

DAVE SMITH
PROUD UNION IRONWORKER

Ironhead 2/13 @ 4:11pm

Is what a threat?  Again you portray your lack of “knowledge” but your stupidity (hate to be that personal) just keeps shining through.

Just answer me one question, have you read the “Fair Tax” book?  If you did (and I sincerely hope so), please tell me where it says anything about giving “… breakes to those that need it least.”?  However Ironhead you are correct about the “propaganda” in the book as it is all about fairness in taxation for everyone, you and me, also, Power, Bob, Mark, Ken V, Someone, Ellis W, Hazlett Bob, Andy Stern, Lee Scott, Pres Bush, Hillary, John Edwards, you get the picture.

Dave Smith

I almost always disagree with you 100%. But I want to help you. People might take you seriously if you first learned how to spell and use proper grammar. I find it very difficult to read your posts. Now, we all make typo or grammatical errors from time to time but your posts are filled with them. If you have to, type your replies in Word and then use the spelling and grammer check to clean it up.

Just thought I would pass along some friendly advice. I want to debate the merits (or lack thereof) of your arguments. I don’t want people to favor my arguments on the basis of spelling (or lack thereof), grammar (or lack thereof) or emotions. I want my opinions to be logical, factual, concise (not always this) and informative.

No debater worth his salt wants to win an argument by default. I don’t think you are evil, just misguided.

Please clean up your posts. Thanks.

EllisW thinks she is one of the staring rolls from Driving Miss Daisy!!!

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse.
We will never forget what you did Walmart.

There has got to be at least two Ellis’s??

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