Dell’s Partnership with Wal-Mart Backfires

What does this article have to do with Walmart?  The company was in trouble which is why they needed a turnaround and entered retailers, and so far they have struggled gaining a market share, probably because they are new to the traditional retail world.  It has nothing to do with Walmart.  If this is the best that you guys can get for your antiWalmart site then I would have to say that Walmart is doing pretty good.

Dave: If this is the best you can do for an occasional drive by remark,maybe you should go work at Wal Mart,or do you already?

What does this article have to do with Walmart?

If your company is “in trouble”, destroying your reputation by selling through Wal-Mart won’t help.

Is Walmart supposed to bail out every company that chooses to do business with them?  Obviously you guys are experts on business since I saw in another discussion that you predicted Walmart trading at 30.  Missed it by that much. I suppose going up $10 and going down $10 are pretty close.

Dave,

It sounds like anti Wal-Mart people don’t think that Wal-Mart should be a “For Profit” company, but, rather one giant welfare type CHARITY!!  Maybe Wal-Mart should just HIRE everyone who is unemployed and PAY them $20.00 an hour, with 100% benefits and OPEN their doors to the ‘poor’ and GIVE everything away for FREE!!  Then, they should PAY all of their suppliers twice as much for everything they buy from them, so the suppliers can make enough money to do the same thing!!

Obviously you guys are experts on business since I saw in another discussion that you predicted Walmart trading at 30.

Dave - given that WMT has been recently trading at 52-week highs, there’s your proof that these guys are experts on nothing!

You guys can’t see the forest for the trees. The point is selling through Wal-Mart may raise your volume but it will certainly lower your reputation. <b>Wal-Mart = CHEAP. Or, as is the case with Dell, it didn’t raise the sales but it did lower the reputation.

“Wal-Mart really is about driving the cost of a product down,” says James A. Wier, CEO of Simplicity Manufacturing, a lawn-mower maker that decided to stop selling to Wal-Mart last fall. “When you drive the cost of a product down, you really can’t deliver the high-quality product like we have.”

Lawnmowers, computers...what’s the diff?

Disclaimer: The preceeding post was entered via a Dell Dimension E310 (but I’ll never buy another one).

“The point is selling through Wal-Mart may raise your volume but it will certainly lower your reputation.”

So does that same theory apply to Apple as well Ken since they are so prominant in Walmart stores.... even more prominant than Dell?  But I thought everyone depicted Apple as the end all/be all of smart and innovative companies.  But I guess Steve Jobs is as stupid as Michael Dell.  Go figure!

Ken V,

“Disclaimer: The preceeding post was entered via a Dell Dimension E310 (but I’ll never buy another one).”

Did you buy that Dell computer at Wal-Mart?  If not, doesn’t that mean that to YOU, a Dell computer is BAD, no matter where you buy it!!

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Selling at Walmart did little to change Dell’s reputation other than to antiWalmart brainwashed idiots like yourself.  Otherwise it is the same company that it was before.  They always had some stripped down models that you could buy. Now you can buy those models and some others in a few stores.  If you’re going to boycott every company that does business with Walmart you’re going to have a tough time finding food, clothes, and other neccessities, but maybe the would be survival of the fittest winning out.

If not, doesn’t that mean that to YOU, a Dell computer is BAD, no matter where you buy it!!

No, what it means is when I bought my Dell they didn’t sell through Wal-Mart and they had a good reputation.

You can make the chicken/egg argument that Dell was already on the skids when they sold out to Wal-Mart, but either way the quality of the product is now suspect.

Otherwise it is the same company that it was before.

No, it’s not. Originally Dell was a company that utilized an unusal distribution method and consumers were willing to go out of their way because of the reputation for quality. Now they are just another vendor selling their wares to the Beast as cheaply as they can.

quality fade: the deliberate and secret habit of widening profit margins through a reduction in the quality of materials.

What’s weird is that the majority of consumer sites that I have found still have Dell ranked at or near the top for their quality.  So apparently they haven’t lost their reputation as much as you would like to think. Which means the only change is that they now sell their product at Walmart and a few other retailers like I already said.  It is tough being right all the time.

..Dell ranked at or near the top for their quality...

If Dell is thought so highly of why would they need Wal-Mart to bail them out?

(I’m getting conflicting messages from you, Dave.)

Ken V,

“If Dell is thought so highly of why would they need Wal-Mart to bail them out?”

Who said Dell went with Wal-Mart, to “bail them out”?  Maybe they went with Wal-Mart, to increase their sales exposure, because of the fact that Wal-Mart is the #1 retailer!!  It wouldn’t make much sense, for a company in trouble, to go to another company, (that you say is in trouble), to “bail them out”!!  That would be like one person who is broke, going to another broke person for a loan!!

It seems that you deem YOUR ‘opinion’ to be some basis for FACT!!  In other words, if YOU don’t like it, nobody should, unless they are ignorant!!  Must be hard being one of the FEW intelligent people in this country, no, the WORLD!!

Dell’s “quality” is now “suspect” because they started to sell through Walmart?  Ken V you are without a doubt either incredibly stupid, niave, or just too jaded in your negative opinions of Walmart. 

I have been in the computer industry for almost 23 years.  I have built and managed networks for 100 million dollar organizations.  Those networks figured Dell prominently in their servers and workstations.  I have been a Dell promoter since their start in the late 80’s.  What you get at Walmart is the same thing you get online at Dell albeit maybe a different model number.  To say that their quality has faded because they now sell through Walmart is nothing short of pure bunk.

I suggest you stick to subjects you know something about.  This subject should be off limits to you because your opinions fall well short of the “smell” test.

QUESTION: Who said Dell went with Wal-Mart, to “bail them out”?

ANSWER: Dave.

Is Walmart supposed to bail out every company that chooses to do business with them?

Nap time, RDS.

The fact that the company was financially in trouble has nothing to do with their quality or their reputation.  They were struggling financially because a lot of people would rather buy cheaper stuff then to buy better stuff.  A good reputation doesn’t always lead to good finances.

dave:"They were struggling financially because a lot of people would rather buy cheaper stuff then to buy better stuff”......Dave, isn’t that the motivation behind shopping at WalMart? Hasn’t Walmart been part of Dell’s problems,rather than a part of Dell’s solutions?......."A good reputation doesn’t always lead to good finances. “ Well, your company is known by the company it keeps.

Dave,

“They were struggling financially because a lot of people would rather buy cheaper stuff then to buy better stuff.”

Sometimes, it is not what they would RATHER buy as compared to what they can AFFORD to buy!!  And, when it comes to computers, the average computer is a dinosaur in a year, so why pay a huge price for a home computer that’s going to be outdated in a year?

To say that their quality has faded because they now sell through Walmart is nothing short of pure bunk.

Prove it, Mr Inside Geek (Richard K)! Show us invoices proving Dell hasn’t compromised their product for distribution through Wal-Mart.

Ken V,

Since YOU were the one who made the claim that the products are inferior, shouldn’t YOU be the one that has to PROVE IT?  Why should others have to DISPROVE YOUR opinion?

Prove it?  Let me remind everyone that is was you that made the statement that Dell’s quality is now suspect since they started selling to Walmart last year.  How about you proving that the quality is worse then it was a year ago?

Ken V, have you ever built a computer?  Have you even opened up a computer to see the parts in it?  Do you have any idea where the parts are even sourced from?

What I can tell you is I’ve been doing this for alot of years and have seen my share of every type of computer, from the guts out over the past 23 years.  What I can also tell you is the sourcing of those parts, even Dell computers sold at Walmart, comes from the exact same place involving the same parts.  By general practice, Dell does not manufacture their own goods.  They come from the likes of Intel, AMD, WD, Seagate, IBM, Microsoft and a host of others.  For you to claim that Dell builds a cheaper computer for sale at Walmart would mean that each of their sourcing companies is complicit in your “quality fade” theory.  And considering the fact that I have seen the parts used in Dell computers, even the ones sold at Walmart, your claim as no leg to stand on.  It’s all the same albeit a set configuration and unique model number for sale at Walmart.

It’s time for you to claim superiority on another subject because this one you just plain failed at.

Dell’s quality is now suspect since they started selling to Walmart last year...

I stand by that claim.

Whether or not Dell has starting building machines from secondary vendors or not, I won’t buy another Dell. (This one hasn’t been all that great anyway and this is pre-Wal-Mart.)

Richard K,

You have to understand one thing about Ken V., he believes that Perception is better than Reality!!  Therefore, if HE perceives something to be true, he needs NO proof, because his preception is proof enough to make it reality!!  Then, he tends to feel the need to expound on his perceptions and that anybody who doesn’t perceive the same thing he does, must be ignorant, as they can’t see HIS perceived reality!!

Ken is right as usual. Any vendor selling to Walmart can expect a mandatory reduction in quality and pressure from Walmart to reduce production costs. The very idea that Walmart means quality is ludicrous on face value and the history of ‘quality fade’ for doing business with Walmart is a lesson any intelligent shopper would have gathered by now.
Walmart’s actions are speaking so loud nobody really cares what pro-Walmart shills have to say anymore. I see matthew vantress bit the dust like the other Walmart internet frauds usually do. But then again, Walmart has notorious and basic quality control problems even with their Richard Edelman internet stooge brigade.

...because a lot of people would rather buy cheaper stuff then to buy better stuff.

I just don’t happen to be one of them. I bought a Dell because of it’s reputation. Selling Dells through Wal-Mart is like finding the same diamond necklace you just bought at a jewelry store available at a garage sale.

“It proves something I have been trying to teach for years: the indifferent equivalence of everything with everything else, for an audience that has no concern for that difference, and no discernment of quality.” ~ Marshall Blonsky

“I stand by that claim.”

Bravo Ken V!

I’m glad we can all come to the same conclusion that the basis for your claims was nothing more than a feeling with 0 substance to back it up.  More importantly, it shows that your negative opinions of Walmart are based on fruitless claims and I would now take anything you say with a “grain of salt”.

And yet another opportunity to quote the Walton patriarch on issues of reputation and discernment:Prove Worthy of the Public Trust
“As long as we’re managing our company well, as long as we take care of our people and our customers, keep our eyes on those fundamentals, we are going to be successful. Of course, it takes an observing, discerning person to judge those fundamentals for himself.” - Sam Walton......

You have to understand one thing about Ken V., he believes that Perception is better than Reality!!  Therefore, if HE perceives something to be true, he needs NO proof, because his preception is proof enough to make it reality!!  Then, he tends to feel the need to expound on his perceptions and that anybody who doesn’t perceive the same thing he does, must be ignorant, as they can’t see HIS perceived reality!!

RDS in
Thursday, March 06 at 12:39 AM

Hey,RDS, why don’t YOU insert YOUR initials,RDS, in place of Ken V’s name, in your above post? I could not have written a more PERFECT description of you,RDS!

Here’s a reality vs. perception issue for you ddrb. 

Build a Walmart in my backyard, without me knowing about it, so Walmart must be bad.  That’s a perception. 

Build a Walmart in my backyard, without me knowing about it, I guess I missed something when I chose my house or didn’t pay attention to the zoning issues around my house if they could build a Walmart that close to me.  That’s reality, at least in your case.

As far as Ken V and his perceptions.... it’s just like making decisions based on “feeling” vs. “fact” and the facts of reality has a tendency to smack you on the head doesn’t it.

Mary: Insert Mary in place of Ken V ,in RDS’ comment:You have to understand one thing about Ken V., he believes that Perception is better than Reality!!  Therefore, if HE perceives something to be true, he needs NO proof, because his preception is proof enough to make it reality!!  Then, he tends to feel the need to expound on his perceptions and that anybody who doesn’t perceive the same thing he does, must be ignorant, as they can’t see HIS perceived reality!!

RDS in
Thursday, March 06 at 12:39 AM

P.S.:Here’s another reality for YOU,Mary----The opinion of a woman who cannot correctly spell the words PRAY and PREACH,(which you continuously spell prey and preech)-means little to nothing in my book.  Amazing how someone who thinks they are so smart can’t spell these basic words,or at least install spell-checker.

ddrb, you are just like the “name callers” I remember back in grade school.  You remember.... the ones who looked tough, but under that thin skin was nothing but hot air.  If my “spelling” issues haunt you so much that you need to bring it up in a new subject months later then you’ve got some bigger demons you’re probably dealing with.

Your MO is totally predictable.  When hit with hard questions or facts you either hide under a rock, change the subject or claim no one has a right to ask you questions and you are never obligated to answer any.  That’s after you present your “offended” face of course. 

Darn those facts seem to keep smacking you in the head again.

Mary:YOU desperately need a new script.Your spelling issues are the least offensive in your repertoire of insults and slurs,Mary. I’ve heard all your same remarks,but it is telling to me,that a woman who has children cannot spell pray and preach.....that is sad.

Ken V,

“Selling Dells through Wal-Mart is like finding the same diamond necklace you just bought at a jewelry store available at a garage sale.”

That reminds me of a person I used to work with, he used to come to work in the foundry, dressed in real nice clothes every day and someone asked him why he wore such nice clothes in that dirty foundry, his answer was, “These are NOT nice clothes, because I got them at the Good Will store”, as if where you buy something is more important than the things themselves!!

Think about what you said, “the same diamond necklace you just bought at a jewelry store available at a garage sale”, does it being at a garage sale, make the diamond necklace WORTH less or somehow inferior, if it’s the SAME one sold at the jewelry store?  Or, is it just a hit to your EGO, that something must be inferior because of WHERE it is sold, because you were ‘stupid’ enough to pay what you did for the SAME thing and don’t want to feel cheated?

ddrb, would you please explain to everyone… how did that Walmart get built right next to your house?  What year did you buy your house and what year did the Walmart open?  If the Walmart wasn’t open when you did buy your house was that land already zoned commercial?  Enquiring minds would like to know the real truth prey tell before you begin to preech some more.

You missed that one completely. The point is don’t trust Wal-Mart when it comes to quality any more than you would buying at a garage sale.

You can’t rely on the fact that what you are buying is the same as elsewhere. It probably isn’t if it is produced for Wal-Mart.

Wal-Mart’s business model is anti-quality by definition.

“When you drive the cost of a product down, you really can’t deliver the high-quality product like we have.”

I used to consider Dell a “high-quality product” but I consider Michael’s decision to sell through Wal-Mart a sign of desperation. If Dell is desperate enough to sell their reputation, what proof do we have that they won’t sell their product quality as well?

No you missed the poing Ken V.  I, as an educated consumer, don’t take anything at face value.  I leave that decision up to me.  By making a statement like “if Walmart sells it then it must be crap” means you are a blinded consumer, in which case you are all 3: niave, stupid and blinded by your hatred for Walmart. 

If Mercedes sells you a car will it be worth it?  How about products sold at Costco since that seems to be the love child for anyone who hates Walmart.  If they sell you something will it be be good quality?  The last time I checked there were alot of the exact same consumer goods sold at both places.  How do you compare that quality?

I for one consider Dell a “hiqh-quality product”.  I do today just like I did yesterday, reguardless of when they started selling through Walmart.  I, as an educated consumer, have taken the time to investagate before I purchased.  Your argument of “if it’s sold at Walmart it must be crap” is completely meaningless and stupid.

By making a statement like “if Walmart sells it then it must be crap”...

You made that statement, not me. I said that Dell’s quality is now suspect.

For those of you a little confused over what we’re arguing about, it’s this. When you see an item at Wal-Mart, let’s say a drill or a blender, made by a name brand, and it’s cheaper than the same item at Store X, the point is, it very well may not be the same.

It may look the same but until you’ve made a close inspection of the model/serial numbers you can’t be sure. Many brand manufacturers produce a “Wal-Mart line”. That drill at the hardware store may be more expensive because the gears are steel and not plastic.

If you’ve ever wondered how it is cheaper to replace something than it is to repair it, the answer is, it’s not! We’ve got some hidden costs built in that are gathering like a storm.

And as an educated consumer and geek, Richard, you must know there are always corners that can be cut on components. (Supplier Z can save us 3¢ per cooling fan.)

Ken V : This discussion brought to mind some commentaries from last fall,entries Cazar had made along these same lines about variance in quality in the same product lines. Although not about computers,I thought they might be of interest. If I may,with thanks to Cazar:.....“If you are saying that Moen had 3 different qualities of product, with the same “style name” and part number, made in 3 different places, I would have to say that that is totally dishonest and they should not do that!!”
RDS.

I am no Consumer Reports tech, I will say that the Chinese model was clearly inferior, and I suspected the ‘Assembled in USA’ model.
And yes, there were three apparent sources for the exact same ’style name’ and ’model’.

But why would this surprise you?
This is very common, among all manufacturers, including car companies.

I for many years liked Nissans, owning some six or seven.
A good friend of mine back then was an engine designer, he advised me to only purchase a Nissan with a “J” Vin, as opposed to a “N’ Vin.
He told me when in school he was inside nearly every engine made, and the Japanese were ridiculous fanatics. That the same engine made in Canada, versus the same from Japan, were incomparable.

He told me there were die cast gears in the Japanese engines which were polished to mirror-like perfection, while the North American same remained die rough.
He spoke of friction physics and things I really don’t understand.

Bottom line he said the same engine from Japan, was far superior.

Yet these were the exact same engine models, manufactured in separate locations on the globe.

cazar in
Thursday, September 20 at 02:20 PM

Let’s not forget to acknowledge RDS for his contribution to the discussion.Another exchange:...... 
Thank you for your response.

And you are correct about how manufacturers produce ‘lines’ of products aimed at various buyers.
That is common knowledge, to say the least.

But let me suggest, with no offense to you sir, that while you used logic like a ‘skipping stone’ over water, you failed to understand why the stone sank.

I was not shopping a Ford ‘Focus’ comparatively to a Ford ‘Taurus’.
Those are two unique and separate ‘lines’ and price pointed automobiles.
Both of which manufactured for their potential demographic buyers.

In what I call now the ‘Moen Escapade’, I was not searching out various ‘models’, I was looking for ONE PARTICULAR MODEL, which I liked.

Most certainly I saw CHOICE, ranging from say $39 to $200, but I wanted this PARTICULAR MODEL, which because of its style, and fitness for my use, I wanted IT.

And it was this PARTICULAR MODEL, not ‘line’ nor ‘alternative’ which I sought out.

There is no argument from me sir, as to why manufacturers build separate ‘line’ products.

My point, which you deftly circumvent, was that apparently some manufacturers are building the SAME LINE IN DIFFERING DEGREES OF QUALITY, so as to fulfill certain RETAILER’S DESIRE FOR PRICE POINT COMPETITION.

cazar in
Wednesday, September 19 at 12:01 PM

Hey ddrb… the world is still waiting for your answers to the questions I posted…

ddrb,

Glad you brought up the comments from cazar, but let’s take a closer look, shall we:

“He told me when in school he was inside nearly every engine made, and the Japanese were ridiculous fanatics. That the same engine made in Canada, versus the same from Japan, were incomparable.

He told me there were die cast gears in the Japanese engines which were polished to mirror-like perfection, while the North American same remained die rough.
He spoke of friction physics and things I really don’t understand.

Bottom line he said the same engine from Japan, was far superior.” ~ cazar

Notice how he states that NORTH AMERICAN engines were INFERIOR to Japanese engines!!  But, there was a point in time, where Japanese products were considered CRAP!!  Now, we continue to hear “Buy American”, because they are of ‘Higher Quality”, not according to cazar’s good friend!!

RDS: This can get surreal here..I would suggest that anyone who wishes to read the entire discourse .go to archives,type in Cazar,and go to page 2 of commentaries. I am not,and have no, interest in computer parts, but it was an interesting discussion IN THEORY of how name brand products can have differentials within the same model. I have no intention of argiung Cazar’s posts with you,RDS.The reference to Cazar’s posts were for illustrative purposes.

BTW: Another patent infringement suit has been filed against Dell this past week. There is a history of numerous suits. Perhaps this is germane to the issue at hand.

Well if cazar has a friend who says it then it has to be true.  Who needs any proof?

ddrb,

“I have no intention of argiung Cazar’s posts with you,RDS.The reference to Cazar’s posts were for illustrative purposes.”

I love it, you bring something up to prove your point, but then say that something, may not be accurate!!

“Well if cazar has a friend who says it then it has to be true.  Who needs any proof? “

Again, YOU bring the post up as an example to prove your point, then back off, claiming that you don’t stand by your example, what a HOOT!!  Didn’t you mean it as ‘proof’ of your point?  If not, just exactly what were you trying to illustrate, how good you are at ‘cutting and pasting’ or that you can’t come up with an original thought and must rely on what others have written?

They are both in over their head, dd.

...you can’t come up with an original thought and must rely on what others have written?

Books serve to show a man that those original thoughts of his aren’t very new at all. ~ Abraham Lincoln.

Since you’d rather argue about yourself than Wal-Mart, RDS, why not “copy & paste” one original thought you’ve expressed here? Just one.

RDS you kind of missed that I was the one who posted, “Well if cazar has a friend who says it then it has to be true.  Who needs any proof?” I’m not even sure what Japanese car manufacturers being better than North American ones has to do with Dell computers.  I’m not sure they are quite big enough to have factories in several different continents, and since the problem in the car situation was with the laziness of union workers (I’m not sure how this prounion site feels about that) and not having to do with the use of cheaper inferior, which is what they are accusing Dell of, it has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion, but it was a nice job of DDRB building a straw man argument to get off the topic when they had absolutely no clue what they are talking about.