Faith And The People of Chicago

I don’t know why church leaders are having this problem, do I cast my support to the people? Or do I try to gain political favor with the mayor and walmart? Boy this one should be a no brainer, of corse they must side with the hard working people of Chicago. It is clear that the mayor is looking out for the interests of big business. Could it be that he has his eyes out for big political contributions from walmart. Im quit sure he has $$$$ signs in his eyes. But the cleargymen of Chicago are men of god (or at least supposed to be ) which would say to me that thier positions should be clearly on the side of the people, without exception. For them to cast thier support in ay other direction than with the people of Chicago should be a burden on thier conscience.

DAVE SMITH
PROUD UNION IRONWORKER

IRONHEAD,

It amazes me, how you can’t understand why people say things that disagree with your position.  Now, even the church leaders are UnAmerican.  What political favors are they seeking?  You just can’t accept the fact that YOU may be wrong, can you?  And, you just can’t accept that there may be things that you believe, that may actually harm people instead of helping them.  Issues are not always Black or White and you have to look at them as such.

The fact is that Wal-Mart’s wages and benefits fall within the normal range for retail businesses, and while you would like to see a better performance for worker, (who wouldn’t), it is more complicated than that.  There is a whole economy out there, we are not just talking about one business, we are talking about a World of businesses, and they all interact with each other in the World Economy.  It is not as simple as giving someone a raise, there are ramifications to the whole economy to do so and these are factored in when a company considers whether or not to raise wages, and what the impact of doing so, will be on other businesses.  You only see one thing, what would be nice for workers, not what is good for the American and World Economies.

That is why you can’t understand why church leaders are supporting a view opposite of yours, they understand ramifications, you don’t.

Bob, I think you may need to reread the above article.  The preacher is on the side of the people like Jesus and Moses.  He is for getting his people out of settling and slavery and into jobs that pay living wages.  Ironhead supports the clergy in Chicago who are against the Mayor who is probusiness not prolabor.  The Mayor does seem to be taking sides probably because of wm’s contributions to his election.  The clergy are ready to lead their people against the Egyptians or in this case big retailers such as wm.  Please reread above article and then comment.

Michelle,

It is not a choice of being pro-worker or pro-business, they are both dependant on each other to survive.  Those who choose one side over the other, only fuel the fires of hatred.  The clergy and the mayor, are on the people’s side, it is just that you can’t see it, because you are blinded by looking at only one side of the issue.  More jobs, means more workers, and more jobs, means more choice for the poor.  Is a person better off with or without a job?  Denying people jobs, because you don’t like the wage scale, is denying them dignity.  Isn’t it better to move UP a little, then to stay DOWN a lot?  Moses led his people towards proparity, across the desert, he didn’t tell them to stay put and wait for something better to come along.

Bob

You are the last person in the world to give advice on only taking up a position on one side of an issue. We all understand that you are on the walmart payrole, thus it would be hard for you to step onto the side of rightchousness, out of the darkness and into the light, so to to speak. But don’t you think that it is just a whole lot hypocritical on your part to make a statement that is so clearly a, semi-truck load of B.S. That statement surely is a case of the “pot calling the kettle black”. Bob I have, never read one post that you take the side of labor, or side against Walmart on any issues ( we know Bob, you don’t bite the hand that feeds you ). For me it is purely out of the belief that people are worth more than Walmart treats them. People are not disposable, companys shouldn’t use them up, and when they slow down a step, discard them like garbage left by a curb. Bob we will NEVER see eye to eye on this subject. You believe that people are no more than a means for a company to profit from, and deserve nothing for the loyalty and years of service. You see nothing wrong with the company discarding an employee that is only month from retirement for no other reason than to increase profits because they now don’t have to pay out retirement. Bob you take up the cause of a soulless company for profit. I take up this fight for human beings that have souls, and dream, and wants and desires. Bob I give my real name and the town that I live in because I believe in what I am doing. Lets see you do the same!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DAVE SMITH
PROUD UNION IRONWORKER

Have to say I think the Democrats are going to elect lots of people in November union money or not. The issue of WM or not. That has more to do with the failed policies of the present administration and his party which has been in lockstep with those policies and as corrupt if not more corrupt as any congress that the democrat’s ever controlled. I am not a big fan of most in the democratic party by the way and if they do take back control of either or both houses in congress I can only imagine it will be the beginning of another cycle that will eventually lead them to where the republicans are today. Allowing the GOP to continue on their current path however will be much worse. Unfortunately corruption is part of the culture in our two party system.

Whether most people or not support WM’s own policies is open to question anyway. I don’t know how you would substantiate it. Simply on profits? Sales? Number of people coming through your doors? Does it mean if one enters a WM that he or she supports WM’s policies? IMO one shouldn’t necessarily assume that that is so. It’s kind of like resting your argument on one litmus test. In any case if ‘once banned’ is Nick like I’m assuming I’d like to say hello.

Profits , every business’s bottom line.  Nothing wrong there.  Hell, the shareholders are often billionaires.  They deserve to be the one’s to solely profit from large corporations.  After all it is there decisions and success that brought them to the place where they can rape -reap so much.  It can be difficult , being born into wealth, and inheritance is so time consuming and exhausting.  Really, I do not understand what all these unskilled people are bitching about.  They aren’t educated and obviously are not intelligent or worth much.  Liberals are always griping about pollutants , and child labor laws and low wages and no health benefits.  Sweat shops-who cares?  Really.  If they had made the right choices they too could have been born into or perhaps rose to the top to become billionaires too.  It is really all about choices.  And as for benzene in drinks and killercoke.org talking about a few hundred union members being slaughtered and what?? tainted drinking water in third world nations etc.  Do we really find any of this viable.  I mean these people will work for a bowl of food.  If they were blessed by God they would have sense enough to go to school or become owners of businesses themselves.  I mean how can we say children working all day in a factory is bad?  They are at least being fed and sometimes housed.  So what if the places are not too safe.  Chances are these people will die early anyways.  They choose not to live with the same medical practices as we do.  How can we fault walmart from buying products made by these people.  I am sorry , but I find it more important to reward the epitome of success with billions than enforce such rigid standards.  If one makes the right choices one can afford better quality of things that are made locally or by non third world nations.  You get what you chose for yourself. Right?  I have heard many say that the wealthiest take from the poorest.  Well, the poor deserve to be poor and the wealthy have shown and proven themselves before society and God.  There should be a cap to all benefits and incomes of the underclass. Their choices should be taken from them and they should have to do extra work for the people who have obviously succeeded in life.  This should be their pennance.

IRONHEAD,

“Bob we will NEVER see eye to eye on this subject.”

Yes we will, just wait until you get a little older and a little wiser, but, then again, you may not get any wiser.

“We all understand that you are on the walmart payrole,”

Yes, everyone who disagrees with you is on the Wal-Mart payroll, aren’t they.

“Bob I have, never read one post that you take the side of labor, or side against Walmart on any issues “

I don’t need to take the side of labor over Wal-Mart, you do it all for me.  Don’t forget, I have worked for 42 years as a blue collar worker, been a member of the TEAMSTERS union for 12 years and a UAW organizer for 3 years, so I am clearly anti-labor.  For 42 years, I have pretended to be on labors side, so now I could argue against it with you, clever, Huh?

Bob

If you were organizing for the union, with your anti-union beliefs, no wonder it was voted down. You were a saboture against the union. People don’t change 180 degrees from pro-union to anti-union over night. Admit it Bob, you worked covertly as a union buster for the company even then didn’t you? Come on Bob, you can come clean here, everybody already knows. btw Bob my uncle used to be a shop stewart with Chrysler in the UAW. If I had your name I’m quite sure that I could find the truth. But of course you are not going to give it are you Bob? Its a good story using the whole “I was an organizer and union member but now have seen the light’ You will have to change your name and think of another character for your pro-walmart anti-labor blogging. I think that you and walmart probably have a whole new identity prepared for you and whole new background for just this sort of emergency, don’t they “Bob”.

Who ever was trying to find my name with the international registry didn’t look very hard. I just looked it up, and sure enough, there I am!

DAVE SMITH
PROUD UNION IRONWORKER

Bob,
once again we have a left leaning union support who has failed to see the light. Just because we believe that you should earn what you get paid instead of forcing the employer to pay a certain salary no matter the amount of work I do or the attitude I have at work, makes us the bad guy. Fortunately, even though the leftist refuse to believe it, they are in the vast minority when it comes to supporting walmart. No matter how hard they try to make the next election be a statement towards walmart, it has failed to take hold because the majority of the people don’t believe the crap the democrats are shoveling. They are just out of touch with the common people and just want to tell people what is good for them and why they should hate walmart. Fortunately, they keep spending their unions dues on preaching their message to which it is doing no good. What a waste of union dues. Yes the hard core leftist will believe whatever you say no matter if its true or not, but you already have them in your boat. You are not winning any new people over to your side no matter what you think. Recent poles (I think they were Rasmussen) have the numbers in the mid 70%’s on whether they support walmart or not. It sounds like its been a total waste of money on the democrates, but what do they care, the unions will keep throwing more and more money at them.

By the way Dave, its easy to see why you are so pro union. How else would you have a job. I know I’m not the worlds best speller and make a mispelling or typo probably once or at most twice a posting, but I don’t know if I would call myself proud with the amount of mistakes in each or your postings. I give you credit, you last posting was better then usual. I guess your union sanctioned spell checker came back from her smoke break and had a chance to read it before you sent it out....

And also by the way, before you start saying I must be a hired goon from walmart, I will set the record straight. Yes I work for Walmart, but I am not a walking zombie and can make my own decisions on a lot of things at work. I work in a distribution center which I admit is a much better place to work at then the store, but when we opened 8 years ago and still to this day, anyone from the local store, which is only 5 miles away from the dc, has had the chance to transfer over if they want. They just don’t one to because the work is alot more physical then in the store, at least the majority of the jobs, but their is quite a few jobs any age person can perform in the dc. With my job, and yes I am not management, I have to make decisions every night that could cost the company millions in lost sales if I would would err. They trust me and I respect them. I get upset on some things they pass down to us, but who ever said life is fair. I have had opportunities to be promoted in the building or at other dcs but I am happy with where I am for now. Down the road once I get married and settle down, maybe I will go for a promotion, but that’s my own decision.

I have gone on long enough and will finish my post with one last comment.

Dave, sorry for the paragraph I slammed you. I am not usually like that, but just reading all you venom and hate you have been told about walmart gets me fired up a little. Most times I just let it go, since I know its what the unions have been feeding you, but get out in the real world for once. Look at all the good walmart has done for this country and other countries and maybe you would come to realize why so many people love this company. Like I said before, they do have their problems, but their is not one company or union out their that doesn’t have problems no matter what the size.

Dear Ironhead:

Your spelling may be off, but your ideas are on!

Fr. Juan Romero
Our Lady of Guadalupe Church
Palm Springs, CA

well Once Banned, you do work for the enemy.  How funny you should make fun of someone’s spelling when it is you who has a job solely based on your physical aptitude.  Dave or Ironhead admittedly says he has dyslexia.  Do you always make fun of people with disabilities?  I assure you, whether for or against wm, labor, etc. it is found to be a disgusting trait to make fun of those with disabilities.  God made spellers and then he made those of us who are not.  It is great that we live in a country where we can readily discuss differing ideas.  It is not about existing unions that get me ,it is the idea that many are discontent with the way wm translates it policies of labor and the people there can not excercise their right to collective bargaining.  Did you forget that it is a constitutional right?  Wm has....  I speak to employees of wm everywhere I go.  Most are afraid to be seen in the store having spoken to anyone prounion but after hours they listen.  Many want to change how things are there at their present job but are afraid of retaliation.  Wm fires people that they think might be trying to excercise constitiutional rights.  I suggest everyone learn the constitution and that way pro union and antiunion propaganda spinners cannot fudge or lie about the issues.  Education is the key.  There can be a balance.  Wm can make high profits and the employees can get decent benefits.  It is possible and other employer-employee relationships have come to this in other areas.  For instance look how well the foreign car industry is.  They brought jobs over here.  Most are union companies that provide decent salaries and benefits.  I believe this includes Toyota, Hundai, etc.

Michelle,
I never said I had one of the jobs that are based on my strong back and arms. I work on the family farm in the summer to help out so yes, I have the physical skills I would need for the more intense physical jobs, but I actually work in the computer department where I have use my college degree and my skills I developed since college every night. That means I have pretty good computer skills, time management skills, communication skills, and customer service skills since I have to deal with the majority of the 700 people in our building at different times of the week. When we are busy, yes I do use my physical skills and help out on the floor when possible also. This would never happen in a union job, from what I hear.

Also michelle, once again you claim that the majority of people want collective bargaining in the stores. That is typical union BS. Yes, there is a small minority that might want it. Too bad, it’s not going to happen and if your unhappy go somewhere else. The unions always takes this vast minority and plays it up to the press that they are the majority in the stores. Typical union trick.

Father Juan

I just wanted to thanK you for your words of encouragement. You have no idea how much it means to me to have the support of a man of God, such as yourself.

DAVE SMITH
PROUD UNION IRONWORKER

p.s.
My brother attends “Our Lady of Guadalupe church” in Dewy Oklahoma

IRONHEAD,

“People don’t change 180 degrees from pro-union to anti-union over night.”

You are right, people don’t change 180 over night, and neither did I.  And, believe it or not, I AM NOT ANTI-UNION, I just don’t think that a union can solve everything.  Things that happened with the TEAMSTERS, when I was a member, watching the union destroy American Motors, and losing 3 elections in a row to people who were too chicken to stand up for themselves, brought me down.  When a union works with a company, it is a beautiful thing, lots of unions do that.  So, far, from what you have said, YOUR union does that.  It is when a union thinks it has the power to get anything they want and hold a company hostage, is when it becomes bad.

Look at GM and FORD for example.  Back in the late70’s or 80’s, the UAW made agreements with those companies to work together, I think they even put a union member on each of their boards.  They called the projects, ‘American Revolution’ (GM) and ‘Quality-Job One’ (Ford), and even though the union and the companies were to work together, they have still come to the brink of bankruptsy, Why?  It is because, during the ‘Good Times’, the union asked for more and more and the company gave it to them, but, when the times are bad, the union not only does not want to give concessions, they want even more.  Plus, some of those things (legacy items), that they got during the ‘good times’, are now draining the company of assets.  Take job security for example, now they have to pay people not to work, in order so that they maintain their job security.

So, you can think what you want to, do I care?  All I can say, is I gave my ‘heart and soul’ to the unions and they broke it.  Hope yours doesn’t do it to you.

Michelle Mayhew,

“and the people there can not excercise their right to collective bargaining.  Did you forget that it is a constitutional right?”

I read the Constitution and I did not see where it says that people have the “RIGHT” to Collective Bargaining, maybe I missed it.  Could you point out where it is, so we can read it for ourselves?

Bob,

Michelle the union operative will tie the “right” to collective bargaining to the 1st amdmt. She will, in the same breath deny that WalMart has a right to fire workers for any reason, set prices and wages, make a 3% profit, or close stores when they see fit. See, in their view only people who agree with them have any constitutional “rights”.