Friday Blog Roundup: Fumbles and Floggies

Regarding the Chinese Communist Party at Wal-Mart

According to this topic thread, “unions and Communist Party cells are the price of doing business in China. I simply find it noteworthy that a company so firmly wrapped in the Red, White and Blue would make such concessions.”

I may not have been the first one to notice this, but nevertheless, I did comment a long time ago on the similarity of the big star on the Chinese flag and the star that has replaced the little “squiggly thing” (-) that separates the Wal from the Mart at the newer Wal-Mart stores.  Coincidence?

Maybe Wal-Mart’s roots are “all wrapped in the Red, White, and Blue,” but lately I think Wal-Mart is more Black and Blue from the drubbing it’s been taking in the media and on blogs like this.  Much of this drubbing is well deserved, brought on by Wal-Mart’s stupid PR moves.  Maybe Wal-Mart should design their own flag and fly it above all of their stores.  Here’s a color theme: Red, Black & Blue!  Don’t forget that big prominent star, Wal-Mart!

Walmart should only display the flag of China or India.
When probably the majority of the products in its stores are imports, than how can you pretend that it has anything to do with your country.
Walmart turned its backs on American (and Canadian) manufacturing some time ago.

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C

Home of Walmart Worker Abuse

Alex,

“When probably the majority of the products in its stores are imports, than how can you pretend that it has anything to do with your country.”

Aren’t products from Canada to the U.S., IMPORTS?  What would happen if we were to stop trading with Canada, to keep their imports out?  And, how many ‘good paying’ jobs has Canada taken from American workers?  Why is it, that if I try to pay for something here in America, that costs a dollar, with a Canadian Doller, I have to add more to it?

Boob

I would call you a MORON, but you have already made that point in that last blog. I guess thats pretty par for the course, you tend to do that almost every time that your FINGER touches the keyboard. Although I do have to say, You surly have out done yourself this time!

Alex, Boob thinks that our “DOLLER” is the most valuble currency in the world. He forgot the Bitish pound and what about the Euro. That JACK ASS is his own worst enemy! BTW, I thought that we were through with his sophmoric posts, I guess it was just to much to ask for.

DAVE SMITH
PROUD UNION IRONWORKER

Just got back from that torture that we like to call Christmas shopping. This year I have been doing it in AOTWM (Anywhere Other Than Wal*Mart) and I have found that tha over all experiance has been better than in the past. Take today for example, I went to TARGET in MidWest City, It was so crowded, but at the same time the asiles are wider, the store is SO much nicer, cleaner, more well orginized, the employees actualy seem to be happy to be there(as opposed to those at WM) and when I went to check out, you wouldn’t believe it, but there was not one register that was not in use. It took us all of 3 min. to get through the checkout lanes, NO lines to speak of. I told my wife that WM must also be flush with cashiers today. She talked me into going by the WalMart super center in MidWest City on the way home and “just take a look” for our selves to compair. Sure enough, just as I had expected, an all out MAD HOUSE. There were a total of 10 cashiers and about 40 closed lanes. the lines were 8 to 10 long and I talked to a few people that were leaving and they said that this was the last time for WM. I also told them about the pleasent experience that I had had at TARGET. I even managed to get a few people entering the store to turn around and leave to shop at TARGET rather than shop at WM. All in all I had a good shopping day.

MERRY CHRISTMAS

DAVE SMITH
PROUD UNION IRONWORKER

“I guess thats pretty par for the course, you tend to do that almost every time that your FINGER touches the keyboard”

Dave, coming from you that line is just pure laughable with the posts of false information you seem to share with others.  (Remember Enron owned PGE <g>...)

As for Walmart and their “mad house”.  Long lines or not I just can’t seem to figure out how they stay in business when they:  1) Don’t offer goods at lower prices than their competitors, 2) Treat their employees like dirt and pay them 20% less than the average competitor (aka Ken’s previous post) and unhelpful employees to boot, 3) Sell only cheap goods where a “majority” of them are imports (thanks Alex) as they’ve totally disavowed a “buy american” campaign.

But somehow they get 100+ million shoppers a week and over 300+ BILLION dollars in sales each year.  How do they do it?  Then again maybe the anti-walmart crowd is not nearly as large and powerful as they think they are and maybe the stories they talk about just don’t resinate with the consumers, certainly not the ones that still shop there.

-Richard K

There is a difference between imports from Canada or the States. We have a simular standard of living. Much more of a level playing field. I drive a Toyota that was made in your country. I drove another car that had California pollution control standards on it. I don’t have a problem with that. A lot of the cars you buy are made in Ontario. It depends on the make and model.
I do have a problem with a company that goes half way around the world to take advantage of 20 cent an hour labour force.
As far as your dollar example. I don’t understand what your point is. I remember at one point the American dollar had less value than the Canadian. And just a few years ago the Canadian dollar was worth a lot less than the American dollar.
It changes just like all money currency.

And now for something that will never lose value:
R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C

Home of Walmart Worker Abuse.

Yes, how do they get 100+ million shoppers a week and 300+ BILLION dollars in sales a year? Yet still nickle and dime the employee’s saying that their business model can’t provide anything better? Possible so that the Waltons and the Scotts can keep the money rolling in?

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C

“There is a difference between imports from Canada or the States. We have a simular standard of living.”

So Alex, you judge validity of imports from countries that have a “similar standard of living” as yours?  So by your standards there should be no imports from a foreign country unless they meet a “similar standard of living” as Canada?  Then how do countries that don’t have a “similar standard of living” ever evolve from from a third world status?  How do those citizens ever make a living?  Do you want to see fellow humans kept on poverty with no chance to better themselves?  Alex, that’s so disappointing.

-Richard K

Richard

Those crocadile tears that you shed for the poor and underpriveledged that live in third world countrys, was below even you. You have made a great part of your arguments, not as to weather or not the poor in those countrys are “lifted out of poverty” but rather that they are a sorce of cheap labor. It’s as simple as that! In reality you could care less if that 10 year old child in China lives or dies, so long as the “market” is not hindered. Your false showing of concern is disgusting, and this close to CHRITASMAS, makes it even worse. If you realy CARED, even in the slightest, you would show some empathy towards your own countrymen and womam. Instead all you have shown, is your contempt for labor in this country. It has all been about the bottom line, the whole “let business self regulate” because they will always do the right thing, has been your mantra. You have maintained a PROFIT over PEOPLE stance since I have been on this sight. For you to fiegn care and understanding is nothing short of a load of HORSE SHIT! You shouldn’t be disapointed in Alex, but instead you should be ASHAMED, of yourself!

DAVE SMITH
PROUD UNION IRONWORKER

I haven’t shopped at Walmart since March 2003. When I moved to a town of 8,000 16 months ago I was told that I wouldn;t be able to survive without shopping Walmart. I just finished Christmas shopping for the 32 people on my Christmas list and didn’t walk across the threshold of Walmart once.
I work with people on public assistance. Our goal is for them to be self-sufficient and my clients who work at Walmart can’t get off the welfare rolls. We are paying twice....for the goods that we buy at Walmart and with our tax dollars.

Dave-

I’ve been reading a lot of your nonsense lately, and it’s really quite pathetic. To be blunt, you clearly don’t know what the hell you are talking about. You are out of your league arguing economics with the likes of Richard K and me. With every post you reveal more and more of your ignorance. It’s astonishing that someone would continue to write with such conviction after being shown his errancy so many times. You really must be obtuse.

Whether or not Richard cares about the people in foreign countries (something only he knows), his point is certainly valid. Selling cheap goods to us is how these countries will rise to equal standing with the U.S. You and Alex claim that these people are exploited. You think that is wrong. Maybe they are being taken advantage of because the global market allows it, but it will help them in the long run. If anyone has contempt for these people it must be you. Your archaic economic views would leave these people where they are, never improving their standard of living. Think about the big picture, not just the small part of the world you inhabit and get with the times. The U.S. economy is evolving. Will you evolve as well, or be left behind.

Please Richard.....if you really cared so much you would only buy fair trade products. Please don’t pretend to be a humanitarian.

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C

Home of Walmart Worker Abuse.

Richard wrote: “But somehow they get 100+ million shoppers a week and over 300+ BILLION dollars in sales each year.  How do they do it?”

How do they do it?  Not as well as they used to. Sales are down, profits are down, the stock is stagnant (and down), they are cutting back on their growth rate, and by Wal-Mart’s own figures, the number of shoppers is down.

You don’t stop something the size of the Beast of Bentonville dead in it’s tracks.  You have to slow it first.

But your out-of-date view of Wal-Mart, Richard, brings up an interesting point. There are a lot of folks out there that defend today’s Wal-Mart by pre-1992 Wal-Mart standards.  They remember how great it was to finally get a Wal-Mart in their hometown.  How easy and convenient it was to shop for everything in one place without having to do any tedious comparison shopping.  You could rely on the fact that nobody was going to undersell Sam.

Well, all I can say is, that was then, this is now. That warm and fuzzy memory of Wal-Mart went to it’s grave with Sam.  In it’s place we have the Beast of Bentonville!

Dave,
You really are missing the forest for the trees with all this anti-WM propaganda. Not a sinlge argument that you, or your anti-WM buddies, make makes the slightest bit of sense - not one.

Walmart is a single business - like many others in this country, they use foreign labor - the foreign labor is cheaper than American labor, and people here save money - good for consumers . ..

WM gives people jobs - they may not have the wages you’re looking for, but it puts money in people’s pockets where there would be none otherwise . . good for workers

WM provides jobs in other countries where the goods are actually made - again, how is this bad??? You people are the first to jump on the “sweatshop” bandwagon, as if you’re some sort of advocate of foreign workers - if you support foreign workers so much, then why is the provision of thousands of overseas jobs bad, even if a small portion of them are “sweatshops” (which I’m not conceding). . . good for foreign workers.

If WM is a crappy store with crappy customer service, then fine - let it be - If you don’t like WM, for whatever reason, don’t shop there - pay more money elsewhere for your Christmas gifts this year - that’s fine with me. But but if I want to save money on stuff by shopping at a certain store, plese, please don’t stand in my way.

In a country where the middle class owns a house, a piece of land, at least one car, two televisions, etc., your working class hero lines don’t work anymore - If you want a real cause to attach yourself to, why not address the issue of state lotteries, which suck up thousands of dollors a year out predominantly lower class people; or smoking - cigs are $5 a pack in my state, and again, are used predominantly by the lower class. How about the state of the educational system, which consistently turns out unqualified graduates who can’t speak another language other than English?? Pick a cause - there are hundreds of them out there!!!

Go America!!

Darth Vader in

Lets just forget your argument for a moment, and examin the name that you choose to associate yourself with. You have chosen to elign your self with an ambassidor of evil. Not only have you chosen an emissary of evil to represent you, you have done so on the eve of Christs day of celibration. You have chosen to use “The Dark Lord” (he was refered to by that name as well in the films, I believe) This alone would show your TRUE COLORS and show that you truly stand for EVIL for you chose evil, as a representation of yourself an this post. Now with that said.....

Knowing that you have chosen evil as you reprsentive, I can only assume that you yourself are then EVIL. Knowing this and knowing that you are against what I have posted and what I believe, shows me that I am on the right path. So Thank you for your opposition to my side, and thank you for bolstering my belief that I have taken the right road.

MERRY CHRISTMAS

DAVE SMITHY
PROUD UNION IRONWORKER

Merry Christmas to All.

Wishing you Peace and enjoyment of family.

People who think that everything is fine with the middle class in America should wake up!  The middle class has been eroding for the past fifteen to twenty years, Main Street America has disappeared because of WM, workers who used to work in factories or on Main Street had good wages and now make min wage at WM.  It is up to your local elected officials to stop WM from coming in to your communities.  With WM coming in, your localities suffer as well, since WM gets tax breaks, while causing erosion of people’s income.  Minimum wage earners don’t spend as much as they did before, your locality’s economy will suffer, and home owners will have to make up the difference in city or county revenue.  Taxpayers also have to pay for WM employees’ public healthcare.  In additon, the quality of most products at WM is so poor that it is not worth your money.  As the saying goes: “You get what you pay for”.  I am glad WM is not in my community!

Well, no comments?  All those who are concerned about the peple of third world countries [Richard K and Someone].
You can support those countries by purchasing fair trade products that pay the workers a fair wage. How about it.
Or do you just support exploiting the children of the world?

Here is to your next cup of Kicking Horse coffee.

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C

Welcome to the new Walmart supporter Darth Vader.
So tell us a little bit about yourself Darth. What Walmart supporter character did you play before this one?

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C

I am very unhappy with retailers like Wal-mart.  Myself and many others do not celebrate Christmas. It is not convenient every December 25 for me to have to change my routine just because the stores are closed. I would have thought that Wal-mart would take the lead by staying open this day.
It is only special to some. Please consider it for 2007.

Thankyou
Raheem

IRONHEAD,

This is just another example of your putting WORDSin my mouth, like the moron you are.  I said:

“Why is it, that if I try to pay for something here in America, that costs a dollar, with a Canadian Doller, I have to add more to it?”

And, you twisted it into:

“Alex, Boob thinks that our “DOLLER” is the most valuble currency in the world.”

You tell me, where you see that I said that the dollar is the most valuble currency in the WORLD?  I was talking about Canadian currency, not the world’s!!  Now prove me wrong, is Canadian money worth MORE, The SAME or LESS than the U.S. Dollar?  Answer to what was said, not what you thought was said and maybe people won’t look at you like a fool.

You wrote to Darth Vader, “Lets just forget your argument for a moment, and examin the name that you choose to associate yourself with. You have chosen to elign your self with an ambassidor of evil.” Darth Vader, is a fictional character from Star Wars, not a ‘real’, “ambassidor of evil”.  You use the name IRONHEAD, which could be interpretted to mean, “A ROBOT with a head made of iron”, guess that would fit you well!!

Alex,

An import is an import, everything that crosses the border into the U.S. is an import to the U.S., like it or not, doesn’t make any difference whaere it came from!!

“A lot of the cars you buy are made in Ontario. It depends on the make and model.  I do have a problem with a company that goes half way around the world to take advantage of 20 cent an hour labour force.”

As you are not an American, your problems have nothing to do with us, talk to the Canadian government about that.  Besides, I have heard, that most terrorists do not come across the Mexican border, but rather the Canadian border, so that would show that we import more than cars from Canada.

“As far as your dollar example. I don’t understand what your point is.”

Of course you don’t get my point!!  Does the fact that if I say I make $20.00 an hour in Canada, it is not the same as if I said I made $20.00 an hour in the U.S.?  And, how does that difference affect the price in the U.S.?  Also, that 20 cents an hour keeps being bandied about, yet a thread here, said the amount in China, was $2.00 an hour, 10 times as much as you claim.  Then, when you add the Socialized Factor, their standard of living might be quite close to the U.S./Canadian equivilent!!  After all, aren’t there any people in the U.S./Canada, who are poor?

Arturo,

“workers who used to work in factories or on Main Street had good wages and now make min wage at WM.”

This statement, is TOTALLY false!!  Check your facts!!

To all the sane and rational people out there, MERRY CHRISTMAS!!

Bob is running out of gasoline. You will notice that he is now in a state of rambling on about anything.

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C

Merry Christmas to all those who Walmart did not care for.
Really who do they care for except themselves anyway.

Merry Christmas to the Waltons and Lee Scott.
Hope you both could afford a turkey for the family.

Merry Christmas to all those who Walmart did not care for.
Really who do they care for except themselves anyway.

Merry Christmas to the Waltons and Lee Scott.
Hope you both could afford a turkey for the family.

Classy as always Alex.  Thanks for exploiting the holiday for your propaganda. 

Peace
Merry Christmas Everyone

What a coincidence!  The very week Jon Ogg of 24/7 Wall St. calls for the resignation of Wal-Mart’s CEO and refers to him:

“If anyone asked who in Corporate America most resembles Darth Vader, it would probably be Lee Scott.”

You don’t suppose?  Naah!  lol

http://www.247wallst.com/2006/12/ceos_who_need_t_1.html

“Exploit the holiday”?  Is that another one of your jokes, Tony?

**And just for the record, Canadians are “Americans” also.  Look at a map.  Like us, they also live in North AMERICA!

Right on, Ken V!

I liked that analogy too!  Lee Scott = Darth Vader and Wal-Mart = Death Star.

It figures that Tony in Indy would be here the day AFTER Christmas, wishing everyone a “Merry Christmas.” You ARE “a day late and more than a few dollars short,” aren’t you, Tony!  And speaking of being “a few dollars short,” I see your buddy “Bob in” couldn’t even refrain from making a post on Chirstmas Day.  Give it a rest!

Alex,

“Bob is running out of gasoline. You will notice that he is now in a state of rambling on about anything.”

You ran out of gasoline a long time ago, you keep posting the same thing over and over and over again.

Ken V,

“**And just for the record, Canadians are “Americans” also.  Look at a map.  Like us, they also live in North AMERICA!”

And, then, aren’t Mexicans “Americans” too, as the live in North America?

As for your Darth Vader comments, I think it is apt that you would use fictional characters to define your positions, as most of what you say, is fictional.

“It figures that Tony in Indy would be here the day AFTER Christmas, wishing everyone a “Merry Christmas.” You ARE “a day late and more than a few dollars short,” aren’t you, Tony!”

Screwed you are wrong as always.  That post was made at 11:33 EST.  The time on this blog has always been an hour ahead of that.  I’m sure you haven’t noticed that though.  Details seem to escape people like yourself and Dave.

Peace

Bob asked: “And, then, aren’t Mexicans “Americans” too, as the live in North America?”

Yup..’fraid so.  Granted, the U.S. has hogged the contemporary meaning but to be American can also be “a native or inhabitant of a North American or Central American or South American country. “ (WordNet 3rd definition) Some go so far as to define ‘American’ as anyone living in the Western hemisphere.

Speaking of contemporary meaning, Darth Vader is the 21st Century personification of EVIL!  Since when can’t personifications be fictional?  Moby Dick, John Galt, Sisyphus?

Don’t get me started!  :o)

It figures again!

Who is it that can’t seem to grasp “the details,” Tony?  Wasn’t it you who was defending Joe Lieberman as a TRUE “Democrat”?

Lieberman showed his contempt for the will of Connecticut voters when he ran as an Independent after the Democrats rejected him as a candidate in the primary.  Other bloggers here have tried to point this out to you, but the “details” seem to elude you.

As far as your contention that Joe Lieberman wasn’t the only Democrat to vote for CAFTA, you are absolutely correct.  The two senators from Arkkansas, Sen. Blanche Lincoln and Sen. Mark Pryor also voted for CAFTA.  Big surprise there huh?

Try again, Wal-Mart Boy!

Bob in

You just can’t explain things to some people. For example, the irrational hatred of Wal-Mart demonstrated by many of the posters on this and other boards would lead an uninformed observer to believe that Wal-Mart is a dying company. Yet, the actual evidnce suggests that Wal-Mart is doing just fine. Not one mention of the fact that Target’s profits declined 24% last year. Wal-Mart drawls 130 million customers per week, opened hundreds of new stores this year, will probably hit $340 billion in sales and $12 billion in profits this year and will have added between 50,000-100,000 new jobs. Hardly a dying company and certainly not an unpopular shopping choice. Yet, to read the drivel here, you would think that Wal-Mart was Nazi Germany and Lee Scott was Hitler. Apparently, there are more than 1.4 million Americans who believe that Wal-Mart is a good place to work. Actually, there are more since Wal-Mart gets thousands of appicants for 300 jobs. There are 40,000 + vendors who must make money off selling to Wal-Mart, else they’d be out of business. There must be 130 million US shoppers (I am 1!) who love shopping at Wal-Mart, or at least like it enough to contribute to $340 billion in sales.

OPINION: Wal-Mart sucks. Everyone hates Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart is in trouble. (Not one shred of evidence).

FACT: 300 new stores opened this year (can be verified by government at all levels). 50,000-100,000 new employees added (can be verified by the US Dept. of Labor). $340 billion in sales (can be verified by the IRS, the SEC and numerous financial institutions). $12 billion in profits (also IRS, SEC and financial institutions). 130 million customers per week. (Can be verified by numerous financial institutions and reporting organizations, among them Fast Company and Fortune).

So you have FACT vs. FICTION. If these bozos can get this simple item straight, how can we expect them to understand trade & monetary policy, currency markets or even the most basic economic ideas?

Tony,

Leave it up to “Screwed by” to argue something as petty as one person wishing well to others. If someone were to say Merry Christmas to me today, tomorrow or the next day I would take it as a very nice gesture, not as “You ARE “a day late and more than a few dollars short”.

Just as I suspected, Dave and Bob would rather make inferences about my screen name than make any real substantive, well-designed arguments . . . and as Bob points out, if we’re going to start analyzing screen names, “Ironhead” is not exactly a winner, is it???

I am still waiting for a real, well-thought answer to these questions:

1) How is it bad for a company to provide thousands of jobs to lower/middle class people, here and abroad, where otherwise they would have none??

2) How is it bad for a company to provide cheap products to people, thereby saving them money??

3) Why is Walmart singled out as the only “evil” corporation in America, when they share similar business tactics as many other companies??

Most people in America feel underpaid and unappreciated. How many people do you know like their jobs and feel they make what they deserve?? I personally don’t know any. That’s life, dudes. But feeling that way doesn’t automatically give you right to something better. So I repeat, if you don’t like Walmart, then by all means, don’t shop there and don’t work there, but please don’t stand in my way if I want to save my money by shopping there.

and one more thing - didn’t Darth Vader become good in the end??

“You are beaten, it is useless to resist . . .”
-Darth Vader

COULD IT BE??

Why “Ellis in Wheeling,” could you possibly be Nick Yelanich posting under a different moniker?  You have very similar posting styles and you are both from Wheeling.  What are the odds?  If that’s really you, Nick, why don’t you go back to the Wakeupwalmart.com blog?  We’ve got enough Wal-Mart sympathizers here already!

Then again...stick around. People like Tony in Indy and Bob-in need all the support they can get.

Tony,
Most of the people on this board don’t have real, subantive arguments to make; that’s why they attack someone for wishing “Merry Christmas”. They attacked me for my screen name earlier. I’m having serious flashbacks to middle school here . . .
Darth Vader

Screwed
I thought the Lieberman thing was over last week.  If you want to get back into it we can.  What does that all have to do with the time not being correct on this blog?  You made yourself look like a fool and aren’t man enough to admit it.  It’s no real surprise though coming from you.  Dave and you make fools of yourselves everday on here and are completely oblivious to it.

Peace

This post was made at 5:34pm EST

Ellis in Wheeling wrote: “So you have FACT vs. FICTION.”

By taking all of your “FACTS” out of context, Ellis, they sound pretty good. It’s the trend that encourages the anti Wal-Marter.  Last year wasn’t bad but this year is a disaster. If nothing else Wal-Mart lost nearly 10% of last year’s profits on the Germany fiasco.

With an average annual turnover rate of 40%, the number of new Wal-Mart employees is meaningless. As for your other numbers, ($340 billion in sales, $12 billion in profits, and 130 million customers per week) are all last year’s numbers and are substantially DOWN for 2006.

The number of financial analysts leery of WMT grows by the day with many calling for the replacement of Lee Scott and some of his upper management posse.

Wal-Mart is still the most sued company on the planet and faces the largest class-action gender discrimination suit in history (Dukes v. Wal-Mart).

So, Ellis, your denial aside, Wal-Mart is slipping badly and with the full consequences of Bentonville’s “restructuring” still to be quantified, the prognosis is grim.

:o)

ATTENTION WALMART WORKERS WORLDWIDE

We know that what really matters to you is your ability to provide for your family. Many on this board will try to focus on other things such as their home made economic opinions.
Your interest is the well being of yourself and your family.
Some will also suggest your options are to leave Walmart if you don’t like it. This is not true. You have another option. An option that scares Walmart and its supporters. That option is having a say in your working relationship with Walmart Corporation.
Check with a union in your area that is interested in the retail sector. Find out what your rights are the Walmart may not want you to know aboutl.

You are worth more.

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C

We will never forget what you did to these workers Walmart.
Your reputation will forever be the result of your actions.

Alex said to Wal-Mart Workers Worldwide: “We know that what really matters to you is your ability to provide for your family. Many on this board will try to focus on other things such as their home made economic opinions. Your interest is the well being of yourself and your family.”

First, we do not use ‘home made economic opinions’, we use proven economic facts, “Economics 101”.  Next, ask Alex what joining a union did for the well being of the workers and their families, in Jonquiere, Canada!!  Getting a union, is no miracle solution, it may make things better, but it carries has no guarantees.

Jonquiere Quebec will forever be a statement about Walmart.
Jonquiere will increase the resolve of the people that work for Walmart. It is not a matter of if, but when.

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C

Home of Walmart Worker Abuse.
We will never forget what you did Walmart.

Ken V’s post of Sunday, December 24 was absolutely correct. Wal-Mart’s sales and profits are down. And its stock price has stagnated. A few years ago they had a turnover rate of 44%. That translates out to approximately 52,500 employees every single month, or 600,000 employees every year. The average Wal-Mart employee lasts about 3 months before they leave.
An article by James Cramer talks about how Wal-Mart is losing business to J.C. Penny’s “J.C. Penney has been the most consistently profitable broad-line retailer in America for several years now, and the gains have largely come at Wal-Mart’s expense, as many lower-and middle-class shoppers have been gravitating toward the store’s higher levels (with their higher profit margins) over time.” You can tie into his article from this web site.
Cramer also says that Wal-Mart is losing sales to Best Buy. Best Buy has sales people who KNOW what they sell. As Cramer says “Best Buy has its computer geeks, Wal-Mart just has geeks.” He also says that if you want a better selection on sporting goods, you should go to Dicks. Dicks has the same low price as Wal-Mart but with tons more to choose from.
Ken V is right. You don’t stop something big overnight. But it can be stoped slowly, and that is what is happening. A tie in off of Cramer’s article is a post by Greg. Greg says that “Between its underperforming stock and flatlining sales growth, the world’s largest retailer is STEADILY LOSING GROUND to more appealing stores like Target and J.C. Penney.” He also writes and says that Wal-Mart has an image problem on its hands. People don’t feel good about shopping there. 
And yes, even Wal-Mart is admitting that their sales are down. I don’t remember what they took in in November of this year, but it was down from last year. Wal-Mart has already admitted that their holiday sales were disappointing.
Does all of this surprise me? Not a bit. Keep putting out the facts, Ken V from Texas. Your post of Sunday, December 24 was right on the money!

I am proud to say that my family had a Walmart free Christmas. Goods were purchased from stores like Zellers, Canadian Tire, Sears, The Bay, Chapters and Real Canadian Superstore.

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C

Home of Walmart Worker Abuse.
We will never forget what you did Walmart.
Never.

Sorry, I forgot to include Best Buy also.

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C

Jane,

All that you have said, is what we, who have been called Wal-Mart appologists and Wal-Mart supporters, have been saying all along,"It is possible to compete with Wal-Mart” and “The market will take care of itself”.  Many people here, have said that outside interferrence is needed to reign Wal-Mart in, yet, you have said that customers are doing that, by switching their spending habits.  Again, that is what we have been saying too.  Wal-Mart may go the way of K-Mart, unless they wake-up, but, that should be between the customers and the business, not government and unions.  The winners, will be the businesses who provide the best shopping service and experience.

Many here, have thought that we are fighting and praising Wal-Mart, but, the truth is, we have only been fighting to keep the “Free Enterprise System” alive and not turn it over to coercion and extortion.  The fact that J.C. Penny and Best Buy are pulling customers away from Wal-Mart, shows that if you provide “A better mousetrap”, people will come.

Well above we see a fine example of “Bullshit baffles brains”.
The truth is that everyone is more than a consumer. We are workers and we are citizens of our countries, and we need to have a planet to live on.
What Walmart did in Jonquiere and the meat cutters in Texas will never be overlooked. The market must respect people as workers and their home country as well as the water they drink and the air they breath. Walmart (and Bob) think that it [Walmart] is only being measured by this weeks “Roll back” price drop without regard for what this company has done to other areas of peoples lives.
Walmart is a sinking ship.

Wal-Mart is doing badly in 2006? If this is bad, I’m sure there are thousands of companies out there that would love to trade places with Wal-Mart.

Total Revenues for first 9 months of 2006 fiscal year: $249,572,000,000

Total Revenues for first 9 months of 2005 fiscal year:
$222,849,000,000

Increase of about 12% in sales. How can they do this with nobody shopping there.

2006 Income from continuing operations (first 9 months):
$8,239,000,000

2005 Income from continuing operations (first 9 months):
$7,787,000,000

2006 Net Income (first 9 months): $7,345,000,000
2005 Net Income (first 9 months): $7,640,000,000

This is after a write down of $894 million in the 3rd Quarter to account for discontinued operations in Germany, etc. Wal-Mart will end the fiscal 2006 year with an increase in net profits over 2005.

These are FACTS. You see, the difference between FACT and OPINION is FACTS can be verified and checked. OPINIONS cannot. Since the FACTS do not support the “America hates Wal-Mart” argument, you idiots conveniently choose not to use them. The FACTS are that Wal-Mart’s 2006 sales will be up about 12% over 2005 and their net profit will most likely increase 1%-2%. Hardly a bad year.

If that is too difficult to digest, perhaps you can understand this. To get some idea of just how “unpopular” Wal-Mart is, look at these numbers. If Safeway, Kroger, SuperValu/Albertsons, Costco, JC Penney, Target, & Sears/K-Mart were one company (Company X) vs. Wal-Mart, here’s how they would stack up, based on 2005 fiscal year numbers:

Company X Sales: $332,368,000,000
Wal-Mart Sales: $315,654,000,000

So these 9 “popular” companies combined, with many more stores than Wal-Mart, would only have sales that are about 5% higher than Wal-Mart.

Company X Profits: $7,767,800,000
Wal-Mart Profits: $11,231,000,000

Wal-Mart, the “unpopular"” hated” company, would have profits that are about 31% higher than these combined 9 companies.

(Target’s 2005 profits were down 24% from 2004.)

When you average more than $900,000,000 PER DAY in sales through the first 9 months of 2006, as Wal-Mart did, you are hardly “unpopular” or “hated”.

If you don’t like your job at Wal-Mart, quit. You are obviously qualified to work anywhere else.

If you don’t like dealing with Wal-Mart as a vendor, quit. You should have no problem selling your goods elsewhere.

If you don’t like shopping at Wal-Mart, stop. Take your business elsewhere. As a consumer, you have that right. Customers vote with their dollars and nothing could change Wal-Mart like the loss of billions in customer dollars. Customers and the marketplace, not government, not lawyers and not unions, should decide the fate of a company.

By the way, there’s a real nice golf course in Mennomee Falls. If any of you ever get the chance to get up that way, you should definitely give it a try. You might even meet nice people who will tell you anything you’d like to know!

For Bob and others who feel the market should take care of itself, you need a lesson in history. The lessons concern the anti-trust laws. Congress passed the Sherman anti-trust law in 1890. From this came the Clayton Antitrust act. And then in 1936 Congress passed the Robinson-Patman Act in 1936. Wright Patman, the Texas Democrat who was the main force behind the bill, made sure everyone understood Congress’s intent by this bill.
This was the intent: “The expressed purpose of the act is to protect the independent merchant and the manufacturer from whom he buys.” The A & P grocery chain at its height operated 4,000 supermarkets in nearly 40 states. The A & P was repeatedly hauled into court for abusing its market power. The A & P did then what Wal-Mart is doing today. They forced the smaller mom and pop stores out of business. In 1936 the Robinson-Patman law was popularly known at the “anti A & P Act.”
We would still be dealing with these laws today if it were not for one fact. When Ronald Reagan took office as president, one of the first things he did was to water down these anti-trust laws. Now all you can take a business to court for is if they gouge their customers. If the anti-trust laws were still in place, Wal-Mart would have been taken to court long time ago for being a monopoly.
An article by Barry C Lynn called “Breaking The Chain” has all this information and more. His article can be found in Harpers Magazine, in the July 2006 issue. It is on pages 29 through 36. Lynn says Wal-Mart should be broken up but we cannot do that unless we put some teeth back into the anti-trust laws. Only then can we take Wal-Mart to court.
I am NOT a fan of Wal-Mart. I have seen the damage they have done and the power they currently have. People are finally waking up and seeing Wal-Mart for who they really are, and many are choosing to shop elsewhere. But look how long it has taken for people to begin to do this.
Should we put teeth back into the anti-trust laws? Absolutely! And then should we take Wal-Mart to court for being a monopoly? Yes! But until we put teeth into the anti-trust laws, it is going to have to be the consumer who does it for us, by simply choosing to shop elsewhere. Even Sam Walton said this same thing. He said that the customer could fire anyone they wanted to in a business simply by spending their money some place else.
So to say the government has no business regulating business, and that the market will take care of itself it not entirely true. The purpose of the Robinson-Patman act of 1936 was to regulate the market.  Is history going to repeat itself, and are we going to see a return of the anti-trust laws? That remains to be seen.

Ok EllisW
So why do the Walmart employee’s have to do so badly if the company is doing so well?

Once again EllisW lays out the options for Walmart workers.
“If you don’t like it quit” is always the suggestion.
Here is the option they don’t want you to realize you have.
If you don’t like it, then organize so that you will be heard by Walmart.
Check with a union in your area that is interested in the retail sector. Find out what your rights are. You may take your actions further if YOU decide.
You don’t have to just have the option of like it or leave.

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C

Home of Walmart Workers Abuse.

I hate to disappoint EllisW but there is one thing you overlooked. If you are in retail there is only ONE QUARTER that really matters to your business. That is the fourth quarter of October, November, and December. This is of course when you will or should do your GREATEST AMOUNT OF BUSINESS. The rest of the year all leads up the the fourth quarter. And it is my understanding that Wal-Mart is already admitting that their fourth quarter had disappointing sales. Wal-Mart or any other retailer doesn’t care too much what they take in from January to September. It’s those last 3 months that really make it for you.
If you run a retail business you spend most of the year PLANNING FOR YOUR CHRISTMAS SEASON. I knew a Hallmark card store owner. He had to order his Christmas cards RIGHT AT THE END OF DECEMBER for the following year!  Christmas product is ordered many times in May or June. Sometimes it is even ordered earlier than that.
Retailers spend a lot of time planning for their Christmas season.
So is Wal-Mart interested in how they did earlier in the year? Probably, but what matters more to them is how they did in their fourth quarter.

If you want to break Wal-Mart up as a monopoly, you first have to prove they ARE a monopoly. Do they control an essential national industrial category? Do they control a vital national asset, such as oil, rail travel, shipping, etc.? Do they manipulate the financial markets to the point of ruin? Did they get so big through internal growth or external acquisitions?

Given your criteria for a monopoly, we should also break up K-Mart/Sears, SuperValu, Citigroup, Bank Of America, JP Morgan Chase, Goldman Sachs, Exxon Mobil, Microsoft, Intel, Cisco, GE and dozens of other companies. There are 2 car companies in America. There are less than 6 Railroads. There are less than a dozen airlines. There are 6 Super Banks, 4 steel companies, 4 tobacco companies and 3 chemical companies that basically control the US market. Yet, Wal-Mart has thousands of competitors and you want to break them up?

Wal-Mart got to their size through growth, not acquisitions. Customers put Wal-Mart where they are and customers can eliminate Wal-Mart tomorrow.

Of course, unions & their Democratic lackeys believe in choice when it comes to killing unborn babies. When it comes to choice in the marketplace or whether or not to join a union, they are against choice. You can choose to have an abortion but you shouldn’t be able to choose to shop at Wal-Mart or reject a union.

You guys are great!

Talk about your fake bloggers. Ironhead is a paid blogger for this site. Interesting enough he or should I say she signed a blog this week with a women’s name. Alex do you wish to unmask now?

EllisW also wants to keep the Walmart workers broken up also.
One voice is going to come EllisW. You and Lee will not be able to stop it.

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E

Please note:
Walmart in Canada was due to an acquisition of the Woolco chain. Just like they did in other countries.

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C

Home of Walmart Worker Abuse.
Walmart will forever have a legacy as a poor employer.
Walmart will NEVER be known as one of Americas great companies.

Hey EllisW, you’re great too.
Keep on rockin.

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E

Alex

You are mistaken. I have nothing against workers. If Wal-Mart’s workers sign union cards, hold a vote monitored by the NLRB and vote a majority for a union then I’m all for it. Of course, I am also all for the business shutting down and re-opening with new employees. If the workers have rights, why shouldn’t the people who sign their paychecks also have rights?

If Wal-Mart’s employees can convince Wal-Mart that they are worth $50 an hour and full benefits, great! Everyone should look out for themself and get as much money as they can. I do not care either way. But this board and this anti-Wal-Mart campaign are actually not about workers.

The whole anti-Wal-Mart campaign was cooked up as a bullying mechanism designed to embarass Wal-Mart into doing what its’ workers have rejected time and again-join a union. Since the workers have rejected the UFCW and others over the years, the unions now demand that Wal-Mart force workers to join their union whether they want to or not. Wal-Mart feels that it is the employer, the workers are the workers and that a third party interferes with communication and with the functionality of the business. They are right. The UFCW wants the $500 million per year it could earn from Wal-Mart’s workers. At a very minimum, their strategy is to minimize Wal-Mart’s competitive effects on union companies, namely Kroger, Safeway and SuperValu. They care nothing about the workers and everything about their dues funded union bureaucracy.

In the US (and in Canada, to some extent) the UFCW has been in bed with the Mafia. UFCW officials have been arrested for embezzlement and corruption. They have agreed to poor contracts for their workers in return for cash payments. They have used violence to try and force companies to recognize them (since they could not convince the workers to join their union). Union officials live in luxury. The unions have mansions and country clubs carried as “union training facilities” and “educational centers”. They have private jets, country club memberships, complimentary cars, etc. They have great job security, as their lifestyle is not dependent on the market but in fact is 100% funded through the efforts of their membership. The UFCW has more than 200 people at its’ Washington D.C. National HQ each earning base salaries of more than $100,000 per year. This is in addition to benefits, cars, petty cash & expense accounts and royal pensions.

Repeat: the anti-Wal-Mart movement has nothing to do with workers and everything to do with dues.

You said it all. Disrespect the rights of workers by shutting the workplace down. Walmart thinks it is above the law ( and the spririt of the law). You want an all or nothing relatinship with the employee’s. That is your democracy. Maybe Walmart should just start it’s own country then it can be a dictatorship.

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C

I don’t know my history of unions very well, but my 80 year old mother does. She told me that if it weren’t for unions many years ago many workers would be abused by their employers. Unions came in and gave the commom worker such things as lunch and coffee breaks, sick time, vacations, etc. etc. I realize that unions of today are a far cry from what we used to have.  The UFCW got in some years ago where my husband was working. At first I felt they were only after everyone’s union dues. But my husband had been at the top of his pay scale for years. The union got EVERYBODY WORKING THERE A SUBSTANCIAL RAISE. 
My husband could have worked there another 10 years or more, and he would have still been making the same amount of money, before the union got there.
A union in Wal-Mart would get ALL THE EMPLOYEES HEALTH COVERAGE. A union would probably get many of them pay raises. And if someone was fired unjustly, the union would go to bat for them.
I realize not all unions are the same. But Wal-Mart has HATED UNIONS FOR YEARS. They know what a union would require them to do. Wal-Mart cuts corners by what they do. it is all in the name of cutting expenses. Why should they have to pay health coverage for ALL their employees when their employees can receive it from the state? And at who’s expense? The taxpayers of course! Why should they pay their employees decent wages? There’s always welfare and food stamps? And who pays for that? And we all know why Wal-Mart shut down their store in Quebec. It was because a union got voted in, plain and simple. Wal-Mart might have their rights, but what about the employee’s right to health coverage, and wages that don’t put them living at the poverty level?
Isn’t it about time Wal-Mart started doing the right thing?

We all know that Walmart will not do the right thing.
Walmart needs the workers to be a united voice.
We can not take to serious the viewpoints of people like EillisW.  She can only present the canned corporate version.

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C

Home of Walmart Worker Abuse

Jane,

“A union in Wal-Mart would get ALL THE EMPLOYEES HEALTH COVERAGE. A union would probably get many of them pay raises.”

And, is that what the employees in Canada got?

“And we all know why Wal-Mart shut down their store in Quebec. It was because a union got voted in, plain and simple.”

Guess you answered that question, they lost their jobs, no healthcare coverage, no pay raises, thought the union was going to get those things for them?  But you are right when you say:

“And at who’s expense? The taxpayers of course!”

Because, “There’s always welfare and food stamps”, right?

Let’s see, a job or welfare and food stamps, which would YOU choose?  No guarentees lady!!

Bob blabs at the mouth again.
We don’t need Walmarts healthcare here because we have universal coverage that is paid for by our taxes. In other words it is NOT FREE. But it is better than any other system.
Other than that there is nothing worth commenting on as usual.

Except for this:
R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C

Home of Walmart Worker Abuse.
This will forever be Walmarts legacy.
We will never forget what you did Walmart.

My first impulse on reading your posts, Ellis, is to point out that in 2006 Wal-Mart’s profits declined for the first time in a decade, or how one of their top-level executives is now a convicted felon, or how the increase in same-store sales is at an all time low or how Wal-Mart has lost 5% of their customers due to “negative press” or the laundry list of mistakes, mis-steps and blunders to come out of Bentonville this year and on and on and on…

It occured to me, however, that reading all that is as dry and boring as your numbers so instead I’d like to dedicate these Tom Waits lyrics to you, Ellis, and all the pro Wal-Mart bloggers out there.

Whistlin’ Past The Graveyard

“We walk in hollowed halls, our shirts are so white.
Our ties always perfect, our opinions so right.
We whistle past the graveyard at night.

We don’t see the danger, we don’t know what’s going on.
We have perfect isolation as we sing our little song.
Walking past the graveyard we whistle all along.

We make contact on the telephone as the air conditioner hums.
Soundproof walls insulate us, we can’t hear the distant drums.
If we whistle as we walk everything will be all right.
If we whistle past the graveyard at night.

We don’t see the ghost and goblins, nor see the spooks and ghouls.
Perfect isolation and perfect contempt, breeds perfect fools.
Walking past the graveyard we whistle all along.
We know we are safe if we just whistle our little song.
We don’t understand money, we don’t understand wrong and right.
We’re extremely educated but we’re not very bright.
We whistle past the graveyard.

We whistle past the graveyard.
We whistle past the graveyard at night.”

BTW, Ellis, if Wal-Mart is anything it’s a monopsony, NOT a monopoly.

Bob wrote: “Let’s see, a job or welfare and food stamps, which would YOU choose?”

One of the features of working for the Beast of Bentonville is you don’t have to choose.  You can work for Wal-Mart and still be eligible for welfare and food stamps.

I have tried to convince my coworkers and friends that Wal*Mart is truly “The Evil Empire” and that they should not purchase goods from Wal*Mart.  With some it has worked, with others it hasn’t.  It’s simply a matter of personal choice.  Period.  Some people simply enjoy the experience of shopping at Wal*Mart.  They like the convenience, they like the prices, and they like the selection.

Personally, I do not.  I dislike Wal*Mart for very personal reasons and on a moralistic basis.  But these are ‘my’ reasons, no one else’s.

I figure that it’s the way it’s going to be.  Either you like Wal*Mart or you don’t.  If you don’t, you never will.  If you do, you probably always will.

Standing on a soapbox and screaming your hatred of the opposition into the wind gains you nothing if the man next to you is doing the same thing from the opposite side of the argument.  Neither side converts anyone, nothing is done, and the masses are confused by the noise.

I think I am right in not entering another Wal*Mart.  I also realise that this is my choice.  There are people that share my views and do not shop at Wal*Mart either.  There are others, obviously, that continue to shop there and will not be moved on the issue.  They could be in the right.  I may be in the right.

Four or five people getting angry with each other on a comment section of a blog are not going to do anything but repeat the same old objections and convince no one of anything.

Get over it and get on with your lives.

Good night, and good luck.
-The Reverend Scott E. Lee, ULC
-O’Fallon, MO

“We don’t need Walmarts healthcare here because we have universal coverage that is paid for by our taxes”

Alex, what percent of a gross income is paid by the employee and employer for health care coverage in Cananda?

-Richard K

Don’t know Richard. You will have to do your own research since the subject of cost doesn’t really interest me.
But I will say that the last time this subject came up I found it interesting that some American folks (who support Walmart) think the taxpayer should not be on the hook, yet their Walmart Company directs the workers to take advantage of your own government assisted health care plan for the working poor.
Hard to understand.

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C

Home of Walmart Worker Abuse.

Thanks for the insight “Rev”.

Peace

Gone just a few days and all this! Wow, where to begain? I’m just going to start where I left off and go from there......

Darth Vader in

In answering you, I feel as though I am answering questions from someone that has chosen SATIN as their pen name, This makes me feel quite uneasy, but here goes......

You said.....

“I am still waiting for a real, well-thought answer to these questions:”

“1) How is it bad for a company to provide thousands of jobs to lower/middle class people, here and abroad, where otherwise they would have none??”

To begain with, I would have to say that aproxamatly 90% of all WM jobs fall under the poverty leavel. This leaves the tax payers picking up the medical expenses from those that can’t aford to pay themselves. As far as those people in china being middle class, How does child labor and sweatshops make them middle class? Since when does middle class make .12 to .20 cents per hour? 

“2) How is it bad for a company to provide cheap products to people, thereby saving them money??”

Wow, when you say that real fast it sounds pretty good. But when you slow down and look behind the curtian you see WM for the blite that they truly are. They have encouraged companys to relocate their business to china where they can exploit the most impoverished people in the world. They pay pennies per hr and take advantage of sweatshop and child labor every chance that they get. They do this while tearing down the middle class in this country. Those manufacturing jobs that are leaving this country are good paying jobs that are replaced by jobs at McDonalds. Not quite a fair trade in my book! If those jobs that were going to China were lifting anyone out of poverty, I would at least give credit to them for that, but the truth is, they are only exploiting the the people in China, and not truly helping them. At the same time, they are truly harming the people in this country with the manufacturing jobs that are lost.

“3) Why is Walmart singled out as the only “evil” corporation in America, when they share similar business tactics as many other companies??”

The answer is.....They aren’t, HALLIBURTON and others are still out there, but this is an ANTI-WAL*MART blog. Thats why WM is usualy the main subject.

BTW IRONHEAD is a construction nick name for ironworkers and as I post my profession along with my Internet name as well as my real name it should be pretty obvious.

DAVE SMITH
PROUD UNION IRONWORKER

“someone that has chosen SATIN as their pen name”

Dave, what do you have against satin?  You hate fabrics now too?  Is there anything you don’t hate?

Peace

Yes Tony I do as mater of fact I do, as well as rayon, and polyester, and spandex. But I think that we all know that I ment SATAN

BTW Tony, how is it that you are able to post on this sight at all hours of the day and night? I have explained in some detail how it is possible for me, but how are you able to do this?

DAVE SMITH
PROUD UNION IRONWORKER

Dave

“BTW Tony, how is it that you are able to post on this sight at all hours of the day and night? I have explained in some detail how it is possible for me, but how are you able to do this?”

Why does it matter Dave?  I’ve never asked you how you can nor do I care.

Peace

Tony

I never said that you asked, But I, and I’m quite sure that others would be curious to know how you manage it, posting at all hours of the day and night, I know that it would be hard to do in the type of work that you do. I would think that their security wouldn’t allow for to use the internet while at work.

DAVE SMITH
PROUD UNION IRONWORKER

Dave

“posting at all hours of the day and night”

I’m glad your so concerned about my well being.

“But I, and I’m quite sure that others would be curious”

Your the only one I’ve heard from.

Peace

The Reverend Scott E. Lee, ULC of O’Fallon, MO wrote: “If you don’t, you never will.  If you do, you probably always will.

The same argument could be made for your line of work, Reverend. You preach to the choir since those listening already agree with you and those that don’t never hear you.

As a seasoned anti Wal-Marter I can tell you I have seen converts from the Dark Side although I’ve never seen anyone do the reverse.

Just because more than 99% of the anti Wal-Mart message falls on deaf ears doesn’t mean we should stop.  If necessary, Wal-Mart can be dismantled one customer at a time, one dollar at a time.

Ken

Scott Lee isn’t a real reverend.  ULC most likely stands for Universal Life Church, which means your only
$25 away from being a “Rev” too. 

Peace

Don’t know Richard. You will have to do your own research since the subject of cost doesn’t really interest me. “

Alex, how do you not know how much is taken in your taxes from your paycheck?  Ask any average american I bet they can spell out to the penny how much is taken out of pay in federal, state and local taxes.  That may be another reason they fear a Canadian style system in the US.... it will cost them even more of their hard earned money for a rationed service.

-Richard K

Has anybody besides me noticed that Rev. Scott Lee, is Lee Scott Rev(ersed)?  How many of you really fell for that?  And, then there is the O’fallon, Mo.  (Of Fallen)!!

Dave,

Maybe Tony does like you say you do, maybe he has a wireless laptop and posts on breaks!!  Or, did you think you were the only one who could possibly do this?

Jerry

I was just asking, and BTW I have been given the third degree on this subject on more than one ocation. Tonys, job is working in a sensitive working enviroment, therefore I doubt that they would allow camera phones or laptops with wireless internet at breaks. You do know about industrial spys, or are they just anouther conspiracy theory on my part?

DAVE SWMITH
PROUD UNION IRONWORKER

Dave

You watch to many movies big guy.  Let the record show I have never questioned you about your posting habits.

Jerry

I will say O’fallon does exist.  Although, Scott is not a minister. 

Peace

I figured the Rev wandered in here from the “Left Behind” thread. He played the Rodney King card:

“Can we all get along?”

Well?  Can we?

NAAH!  :o)

Dave

Good to hear.

Peace

Alex, how do you not know how much is taken in your taxes from your paycheck?  Ask any average american I bet they can spell out to the penny how much is taken out of pay in federal, state and local taxes.  That may be another reason they fear a Canadian style system in the US.... it will cost them even more of their hard earned money for a rationed service.

-Richard K

Dear Doctor Richard K
Thank you for identifying my greatest fear! I am sure that a charge will be in the mail for me because your superior system would never just hand out this kind of advice without direct payment requirement.
Please enclose with the bill your analysis to the penny of your own federal, state and local taxes as promised.
I thank you in advance.

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C

Richard K,

I find it kind of strange that Alex pushes the government healthcare program in Canada, as being the greatest thing since sliced bread and how great it is for the taxpayers to cover the burden, yet, condemns Wal-Mart for supposedly putting people on our government healthcare program!!  I don’t get it, is he for government healthcare or against it? 

But, we all know, that Wal-Mart is not obligated to provide healthcare at all, so I will never figure out how they claim that Wal-Mart is pushing off their employees to the government!!  To me, that would be like saying that you aren’t obligated to go and cut the grass in the park, but are pushing off the grass cutting to the government and the taxpayers, by not going and cutting it yourself.  And, guess what, if you did go and cut the grass, you would not get a cutback on your taxes and would probably end up in trouble with the park employees union.

Of course, unions & their Democratic lackeys believe in choice when it comes to killing unborn babies. When it comes to choice in the marketplace or whether or not to join a union, they are against choice. You can choose to have an abortion but you shouldn’t be able to choose to shop at Wal-Mart or reject a union.

You guys are great!

EllisW in

Hey Someone in USA
How do you respond to EllisW since you are a supporter of Walmart and abortion [vs. Walmart paying family friendly wages]?

Nice try Bob.
I think that I have said in the past that it is good we (Canadians) don’t have to depend on a company, such as Walmart for our healthcare. You can’t answer my question so you try to turn it around. But of coarse, what else can you do to save face?

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C
These people still have healthcare. Thank goodness they don’t have to depend on Walmart for that.

Hey Richard.....do you have those tax number ready yet?

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse
We will never forget what you did Walmart.
Never.

Boob

By your support of WM and their not supplying insurance and not paying wages that people can aford to live on, you are the biggest suporter of government healthcare on this site. You make claim to be against government healthcare, but you support it every day when you defend WM. After all someone has to pay for the medical treatment of the working poor. And who is the largest employeer of the working poor in the world, well Boob, we already know the answer to that don’t we. But I’ll say it anyway WAL*MART!!!!!

DAVE SMITH
PROUD UNION IRONWORKER

Here you go Alex.  I’ll use my state since each state will vary.

Currently US Federal tax brackets include 10%, 15%,25%, 28%, 33%,and 35% and depend on income amount and filing status.
+
Federal FICA = 6.2% of gross income (limited to first $94,200 of income in 2006)
+
Federal Medicare = 1.45% of gross income
+
Matching 6.2% + 1.45% (self employed match, which is me)
+
Maryland State (my home state) tax brackets include 2%, 3%, 4% and 4.75% and depend on income amount and filing status.
+
Maryand County piggy back tax brackets range from 1.25% to 3.2% depending on county.

Now this is for someone living in my state and in some areas of the state there could even be another local piggy back tax on top of that.  Just figure out your income and deductions (which with the federal tax code is no small chore) you can figure out tax owed.

As for what I personally make and pay in taxes that is between me, my wife and the tax man because I wouldn’t dream of asking people for personal information such as that.

Now how do you you calculate the amount you pay for health care coverage in Canada?  I’m still trying to find out and you seem to be the knowledgable expert here as a citizen of Canada.

So as soon as you’ve got those numbers I’ll look forward to seeing them.

-Richard K

IRONHEAD,

I thought you didn’t want to hear from me again?  Well, the fact is, I am against National Healthcare and I am also against Forcing companies to provide healthcare for their employees, but, I am for companies, who decide to do so, to provide access to health care plans, as a benefit and then, it is up to the employees to pay for it (Wal-Mart does that!!).  If a company chooses to pay part of that premium as a benefit, that is great, but, if they don’t then it is up to the employee to pay for it, if he wants it.  As for government Medicaid, I think that is up to the government, as they are the ones providing it and if they choose to cover employed people, that is their fault, not Wal-Mart’s or any other employer.  Example: If we were to go to McDonalds and we both worked and I asked you to pay for my meal and you agreed to pay for my meal, is that my employers fault, that you paid it for me?  If the taxpayers don’t want to cover Wal-Mart employees, all they have to do, is tell the lawmakers not to give Medicaid to Wal-Mart employees anymore, plain and simple!!

One person said here, that Wal-Marts policy was ‘don’t get sick’, what’s wrong with that?  Where I worked last, I had 5 years perfect attendance (I had missed about 5 days in 13+ years) and there were people there who had been there 15+ years with perfect attendance, how come some people can do that, yet others can’t go a week or two without missing a day?  How often do you miss work?  Do you have an attendance policy where you work?  Is it unlimited sick days?

Others want better wages, yet they tell people to shop elsewhere, what’s that all about?  Maybe if those people had a better attitude and worked harder to get those flat or declining sales up, maybe they could get a better wage!!  But, what would the captain do, if you were trying to sink the ship, give you a medal?

This is what Bill Cosby said to a group of black people, about Wal-Mart, but, I think it applies to everyone:

“We as black folks have to do a better job. Someone working at Wal-Mart with seven kids saying… you are hurting us. We have to start holding each other to a higher standard. We cannot blame the white people any longer.”

Stop complaining and do a better job of running your life and start making better choices, that’s the way to get ahead.

Now how do you you calculate the amount you pay for health care coverage in Canada?  I’m still trying to find out and you seem to be the knowledgable expert here as a citizen of Canada.

So as soon as you’ve got those numbers I’ll look forward to seeing them.

-Richard K

Richard K in
Friday, December 29 at 08:57 PM

Truely you are extreme Richard! And bored.
Once again I am not really interested. As I stated earlier you will have to do your own research.  But what I can tell you is that when I am ill I am taken care of, and I don’t need a calculator and a wad of money in my wallet. Only my Ontario OHIP Card.  Sort of the same feeling as fire protection (to help you understand). I am sure that you and I don’t have to get out our accounting books to figure out how much of our taxes go to fire protection, or police. The only difference is that I have healthcare protection. You don’t. Sorry about your luck.

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C

Hey Bob

Your statement on:

Bob in
Saturday, December 30 at 12:16 AM

This is a masterpiece of writing!!!
Where did you learn to have such a command of the english language?

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C

Speaking of healthcare (or the lack of it).
Taken from todays San Francisco Chronicle.

California has the nation’s largest population of uninsured residents, an estimated 6.5 million people. More than 60 percent of the uninsured have family incomes of less than $30,000 per year, according to a 2003 UCLA survey.

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C

Alex, is your thought process truely so dense that you can’t see my point.  You talk about how the health care coverage in Canada is not free (paid for via taxes).  You may not care how much it costs but if you put a figure in front of someone telling them… you can have national health care BUT it will cost you AN ADDITIONAL 15-20% IN TAXES of your income (paid for via taxes) to have that health care.  Now take the person who is making $20/year and what you are basically telling them is you need to fork over $3-4k/year for that health care.  It will let the consumer in the US do a much better job of knowing just how much it will cost them for a national health care on top of the long wait times for some diagnostic services and common procedures like you have in Canada today.

If people in the US think that national health care is the “fix” to cure all ills of delivering health care then let them know ALL of the facts so they can form their own opinions on its value.

As for you Alex I certainly hope the Canadian government raises your taxes in order to help their coffers since you “don’t care” about how much you pay.  That’s part of the problem with any rationed service like you have in Canada.

-Richard

Oh Richard, there are people who are as focused on taxes as you are in my province. I am not too worried about the Government running away with my money. One example is a non-profit group called taxwatch. I think it is very hard to compare two countries tax systems just on one topic. There would be a lot more factors one would think.  Anyway, you can’t play ever instrument in the orchestra. So I will let you and my fellow citizens (who are interested) concentrate on keeping the Government honest.
All your calculations still don’t address the fact that your country has a major amount of people without the same level of care as the wealthy as demonstrated above in the Chronicle paper.
I’m happy with our system. Looks like you are happy too.
I just don’t see the people without coverage being too happy.

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C

“I just don’t see the people without coverage being too happy”

You are absolutely right Alex.  I also see alot of unhappy consumers in Canada who can’t get an appointment with a Dr. let alone a diagnostic testing like a CT Scan or a common procedure such as a knee replacment when they have to wait months to years for a procedure.  That would scare the heck out of me knowing if I needed a knee replacement I get put on a wait list for many months until they can “fit me in”.  For all of the hoopla about everyone getting coverage in Cananda… well that coverage is only as good as you can get it.  If you can’t get it, or it is delayed for extended periods of time, then it’s almost as if you don’t have it… and certainly not when you need it.  Canada is also suffering from a “brain drain” and loosing its best medical personal who are migrating to the US because the pay is so much higher here.  That will in turn affect quality and delivery of care.

-Richard K

Alex

Why don’t you address the following points? What percentage of your gross income is taken by the Canadian government in the form of taxes? (Hint: if you don’t know this, you don’t work). Care to address the Canadian health care budget? Do you care to share with everyone here that some hospitals in the western provinces have to close down when they run out of money? Imagine the US, if a hospital shut down October 1st and said “We ran out of our budgeted money this year. We’ll reopen January 1st when we start the new fiscal year”. Is that “universal” health care? Or how about the lack of new medications in Canada? How about the lack of new treatments and equipment? How about the fact that Canada didn’t get MRI machines until the late 1990s? How about the fact that you may have to wait months to see a doctor? How about the fact that wealthy Canadians who can afford it often come to the Mayo or Cleveland Clinics for their care?

Something many of you people will never understand is that your health insurance, like life insurance, car insurance, disability insurance and homeowners insurance, is your PERSONAL responsibility. Your neighbors and fellow taxpayers are no more responsible for your health care costs than they are your mortgage payment.

This spirit of independence and capitalism is why the US is still the world’s greatest economy and why we’re the only nation where people are risking their lives to get in.

Canada has a sad history. There are some nice Canadians that I’ve met but that doesn’t excuse the sorry accomplishments of your nation. (Still look to the Queen as your Head Of State?) HA HA HA.

Alex

What Richard doesn’t mention is that we pay for our own health care for ourselves then we must also subsidize buinesses like WM out of our tax dollars. So in essence, we pay both systems, and all so that companys like WM get a free ride at the taxpayer expense.

Don’t get me wrong, I believe that healthcare should be every persons right. I just hate having to pay both systems. I believe that universal health coverage, like you have in Canada would be much more eficient than what we now have. I also think that all one has to do is look at who has the most to gain by keeping this system as it is now, and that would be the INSURANCE companys, PHARMACEUTICAL, and HMO’s. So given a choice of them or government run system I would have to say “the enemy of my enemy is my freind. I would have to go with the universal system.

DAVE SMITH
PROUD UNION IRONWORKER

Dave

“I believe that universal health coverage, like you have in Canada would be much more eficient than what we now have”

Since when has any program administered by the government been more efficient?

Peace

Tony

Think about it, right now we are paying for both systems.

DAVE SMITH
PROUD UNION IRONWORKER

From your San Fran Chronicle:
California has the nation’s largest population of uninsured residents, an estimated 6.5 million people. More than 60 percent of the uninsured have family incomes of less than $30,000 per year, according to a 2003 UCLA survey.

The one and only response I got (except Dave):
You are absolutely right Alex.

Then we go off into never never land.  I guess the only thing that I will say is why are Canadians more healthy than Americans? This has been written about by some Americans on this board in the past after studies have been published.

I would suggest that there is more of a fear of the unknown happening for some of you people.

And the best comment of all:
This spirit of independence and capitalism is why the US is still the world’s greatest economy and why we’re the only nation where people are risking their lives to get in.

Canada has a sad history. There are some nice Canadians that I’ve met but that doesn’t excuse the sorry accomplishments of your nation. (Still look to the Queen as your Head Of State?) HA HA HA.

EllisW in Wheeling
Saturday, December 30 at 06:53 PM

EllisW, tell me more about your thoughts above.
Help me to understand why you feel this way.

Never posted here before but the rhetoric of some of you pro-walmart pro-business screw the working man posters just begs for a response.

Canadian Healthcare Costs - According to the Canadian Institute for Health Information (CIHI); Provincial and territorial governments will spend almost $3,000 on each person to pay for health care in 2006-07.

Now on to what it costs my Employer to provide me healthcare here in Wisconsin - According to the survey by Mercer Health & Benefits LLC, the total cost of providing health benefits in Wisconsin rose 9.2% this year to an average of $9,321 for each employee.

Now both of those statements are excerpts of reports I found by doing a web search. I’m not going to spoon feed you the whole thing do a little research if you want to read the rest.

As to our wonderfull healthcare system. According to the World Health Organization’s ranking of health care systems the United States comes in a dismal 37th.

Now as to why you won’t see a national healthcare system here in the US - Money, cold hard cash - Just think what chaos it would cause if we woke up tomorrow and all the health care insurer’s were out of buisness. No middle man skimming off the top of every medical transaction coming down the pike.  All those Capital Hill lobbyist would be unemployed - the horror of it.  Rest assured that won’t happen because there is no big money out there filling election coffers advocating national healthcare reform.

Instead we’ll continue to see a shift of healthcare costs unto the workers untill it reaches the point where it becomes a food or insurance decision for more and more working Americans.  As it stands today forty-six million Americans, including more than 8 million children, are living without health insurance

I just find it strange that while you applaud Walmart’s model of using it’s collective buying power to force price concessions from it’s suppliers you scream bloody murder when the same is suggested for securing affordable healthcare for working families.

Now there is no “Magic Bullet” for fixing our current system but it would be a major victory if we could just get our goverment to admit it’s not working now.

One quick question, How many Wal Mart Associates do you imagine could afford to go to the Mayo Clinic for treatment?

RL asked: “How many Wal Mart Associates do you imagine could afford to go to the Mayo Clinic for treatment?”

One, that I know of. They made a TV ad about how Wal-Mart health insurance saved his son’s life by sending him to...yup, you guessed it, the Mayo Clinic!

Excellent post, RL.

RL in Janesville WI

You said this is your first time on this site, I only hope its not your last. Great post!

DAVE SMITH
PROUD UNION IRONWORKER

Thanks RL in Janesville WI

I hope this information clears things up that you suggested that we look up about our healthcare systems. I love my healthcare system and I would not trade it though it is not perfect.

For those interested in finding out for themselves please check on the World Health Organization website. If you want to check out individual countries go to http://www.who.int/countries/en/

Life expectancy at birth m/f (years)
Canada 78.0/83.0
US 75.0/80.0

Child mortality m/f (per 1000)
Canada 6/5
US 8/7

Adult mortality m/f (per 1000)
Canada 91/57
US 137/81

Healthy life expectancy at birth m/f (years)
Canada 70.1/74.0
US 67.2/71.3

Total health expenditure per capita (Intl $)
Canada 2,989
US 5,711

Total healthcare expenditure as % of GDP
Canada 9.9
US 15.2

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C

Also from the same report:

Physicians (density per 1000 population).
Canada 2.14
US 2.56

Nurses (density per 1000 population).
Canada 9.95
US 9.37

I guess there will be more of a wait time for physicians in Canada since everyone gets healthcare. Not just those who are better off financially.

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C

Taken from the Las Angeles Times, Jan 1st 2007

46 MILLION AMERICANS UNINSURED.
HEALTHY? INSURERS DON’T BUY IT.
Minor ailments can thwart applicants
for individual policies.

From the story:
Svonkin is part of what experts say is a largely hidden aspect of the nation’s health insurance crisis: the uninsurables, people whom insurance companies won’t touch, even though they can afford to pay high premiums. Some, such as Svonkin, pay steep rates for lean coverage from the state’s high-risk insurance pool. Others simply go without.

So even if you can pay, you may not get healthcare!!!
Thanks but no thanks.

Alex

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C

One of the great strengths of universal healthcare is the “preventitive maintenance” aspect. Regular Doctor visits are crucial. If there is a problem and you find it early, the catastrophic healthcare costs are greatly reduced, through shorter hospital stays and less expensive treatment. More lives are saved when there is an early diagnosis. This can only be achieved if the poorer people in a society have access to regular doctors visits. This results in fewer emergency room visits, that means shorter waits for service for everyone that are in need of emergency service, and lower cost to the taxpayer. It is a real WIN-WIN situation.

If a national healthcare system were implimented, I’m sure that at first the waits would be long, but as the U.S. population becomes healthier, the visits become less frequent, and the waits would become shorter. Also, as with anything new, the bugs would have to get worked out, and as that happens the speed of service would increase.

RL in Janesville WI and Alex have done an excellent job of showing that Richard, Someone, Boob, Tony and others that have spread the lies and fear based propaganda from the insurance and pharmaceutical companys, that their arguments just don’t hold water. I for one look forward to their response, or lack there of.

DAVE SMITH
PROUD UNION IRONWORKER

IRONHEAD-

When did I say anything about either the Canadian system or our own?

Answer: I didn’t.

The only things I have to say about healthcare are that Wal-Mart provides reasonable plans that all of its associates could afford if they want to ($11 and $23 monthly premiums) and that Wal-Mart has no obligation to provide any sort of health benefit.

Pay attention. You will find that I generally avoid discussions that do not center around Wal-Mart.

To all-

Happy New Year!

Someone

This is a case of the free market VS universal healthcare. In the past you have Always defended the free market in your arguments. BTW, in no way are all of WM associates eligible for WM’s health insurance. Only those that are full time , and have been there long enough to qualify for it.

DAVE SMITH
PROUD UNION IRONWORKER

Dave-

Full-time workers are eligible in six months and part-time associates become eligible in twelve months. Both groups have access to the same plans. In addition, new hires have the option of enrolling in limited coverage while they await eligibility.

All of the research has been done for you here if you care to educate yourself.

“RL in Janesville WI and Alex have done an excellent job of showing that Richard, Someone, Boob, Tony and others that have spread the lies and fear based propaganda from the insurance and pharmaceutical companys, that their arguments just don’t hold water.’

What a joke of statement that is Dave.  Go right ahead and tell me where I have lied (or passed lies) into any discussion.  Give it your best shot.  As for RL I took at look at the WHO report that ranked the US 37th (did you Dave?) The report had absolutely nothing to do with quality of care but instead deals with access, level of health and distrubution of finances.  I’ll take the quality of care of the US system anyday over countries like France and Canada. 

What everyone keeps missing here when faulting the US health care system is not the quality of care but the use of it and how to pay for it.  That’s the part that is broken.  The US is the one of the highest consumers of health care in the world.  Dave, have you ever researched how much money is spent per capita on health related expenses for each US citizen?  It’s staggering.  No wonder health insurance is so expensive.  And for all of your talk about the “insurance company propaganda” you could drop them tomorrow and you still don’t solve the expediture problem, not by a long shot.

We are in agreement about 1 point… preventive care is a HUGE step in solving health care expenditures.  If you diagnose and treat problems earlier you will save alot fo $$ in the end.

-Richard K

I will agree that Wal-Mart has a legal obligation to provide health insurance to all of its’ employees just as soon as you show me the area of law, be it federal, state or local, that requires ALL employers to provide health insurance to ALL employees. I think we can all agree that no such laws exist, at any level. So it becomes a question of Wal-Mart’s moral obligation.

Now, then. No individual and no corporation has a moral obligation to provide a benefit or a handout to another