News For Electeds: States And Feds Grapple With How Best To Help Uninsured
Health care has been a frequent topic covered in recent weeks, especially with the announcement last week that Wal-Mart and SEIU would be spearheading a committee devoted to restructuring the health care system in the United States. But until that change begins to be realized, states have been forced to take matters into their own hands, even if their methods conflict with proposals coming out of the White House.
From the New York Times:
In the absence of federal action, governors and state legislators around the country are transforming the nation’s health care system, putting affordable health insurance within reach of millions of Americans in hopes of reversing the steady rise in the number of uninsured, now close to 47 million.
But the states appear to be on a collision course with the Bush administration, whose latest budget proposals create a huge potential obstacle to their efforts to expand coverage. While offering to work with states by waiving requirements of federal law, the Bush administration has balked at state initiatives that increase costs to the federal government.
The current budget proposal President Bush has laid on the table presents a challenge to states looking to expand coverage, and does little to help those where money is already running out. Over a dozen states, including Georgia and New Jersey, will see their federal funds run dry within a few months. This has led Congress to face the prospect of bailing out states who run out of money, or risk the possibility that children will be removed from state health care rolls.
A basic question that will have to be answered is where money should be focused. President Bush argued in his State of the Union that attempts to expand the state and federally funded Children’s Health Insurance Program are inappropriate beyond the original intent to cover children with family incomes less than twice the poverty level. New York, California, and Pennsylvania are among a large group of states seeking to move ahead and cover children in families will above 200 percent of the poverty level.
There is also a movement to expand coverage beyond just children:
- Arkansas, Kentucky, Montana, Oklahoma, Rhode Island and Tennessee have new laws and programs to reduce the cost of insurance for small employers.
- Massachusetts and Vermont passed laws in 2006 to achieve universal or nearly universal coverage, while addressing the cost and quality of care.
- Several states, including Colorado and Delaware, are requiring insurers to cover young adults, the fastest-growing segment of the uninsured population.
Regardless of party, state officials on both sides of the aisle have conceded the need to do something within their state boundaries. In fact, experts believe the pragmatism governors and state legislators tend to exhibit could lead to even more activity on the issue. As a senior research scholar at the Healthy Policy Institute at Georgetown University noted: “There is such a political divide in Washington that many people believe that the only reasonable chance to succeed is at the state level.”
Links:
- New York: Governor Spitzer’s announcement on providing affordable health care to all children - Child Health Plus
- California: Gov. to seek insurance for all children
- Pennsylvania: Rendell unveils new health care plan
In other Wal-Mart happenings this week:
The company is perhaps channeling its inner Aldous Huxley with a spate of stories concerning technological issues. From scanning IDs and the inevitable question of where all that personal info actually goes, to its radio-tracked inventory system causing more problems than solutions, to an automated absenteeism system that most likely acknowledges the first step towards computers taking over the world, Wal-Mart is on the front lines.
Though its attempt to gain banking privileges seems to be going backwards here in the United States, Mexico has embraced the retail giant with open arms. Our southern neighbors are eager to increase competition within the banking world, and who better to do so than the company that once sold a gallon of pickles for a nickel.
And finally, since we’re out of opinions of our own, we’ve compiled some favorites from across the nation, in our Opinions of the Week section.
And one last note – after a lengthy battle, officials in Antioch, CA, said ‘thank you, but no thank you,’ to the expansion of an existing Wal-Mart into a 200,000+ square foot supercenter.
Big Brother Wal-Mart
- Wal-Mart scans IDs for date of birth [Arizona Republic]
What’s going on at Wal-Mart stores here in the Valley? Why do their cashiers input my date of birth into their computer when they check ID on alcohol or cigarette purchases? - Wal-Mart adopts automated absenteeism system [Employee Benefit News]
Having grown weary of seeing two employees running themselves ragged picking up the slack for absent workers, Wal-Mart has instituted a new policy requiring those who are sick or late to work to call an 800 number. Workers using the automated system to call in sick are tagged with an “unauthorized” absence; anyone who logs seven of those within six months automatically will be fired. - Wal-Mart’s Radio-Tracked Inventory Hits Static [Wall Street Journal]
Wal-Mart Stores Inc.’s next leap forward in ultra-efficient distribution is showing signs of fizzling. A pioneer in low-cost practices widely copied by competitors, Wal-Mart has pushed its suppliers to use exotic radio-activated tags to chop labor and inventory costs anew. But tests using the tags aren’t showing any savings, and suppliers forced to invest in the relatively expensive technology are grumbling.
Banking In Mexico
- Wal-Mart’s Bank Gambit, Spurned in U.S., Wins Embrace in Mexico [Bloomberg News]
Wal-Mart Stores Inc.’s banking ambitions, snarled in the U.S., are on a fast track in Mexico. Mexico is eager to increase bank competition and has given the local unit of the world’s biggest retailer the go-ahead to provide consumer banking services. Wal-Mart de Mexico SAB will tell analysts tomorrow how it plans to win customers at branches it will set up at its 576 stores starting in July.
Opinions Of The Week
- Mark Trumbull: Wal-Mart suit shows the glass ceiling is still an issue [Christian Science Monitor]
A lawsuit against America’s largest employer is serving as a reminder that concerns about gender discrimination persist, despite four decades of focus on equal workplace rights.Wal-Mart hasn’t been found guilty of sex discrimination—and it may never be, in part because class-action cases on this issue are often settled out of court. - Mari Margil: Companies’ support goes against the environment [Seattle Post-Intelligencer]
Last month, 10 major companies—including BP, DuPont, Florida Power & Light and General Electric—signed onto a joint policy proposal aimed at reducing global warming emissions. Wal-Mart, the world’s largest retailer and the biggest private user of electricity in the U.S., also signed on in support. As global warming concerns continue to heat up, it would seem to be welcome news... - Fatoumata Soumaré: Pay discrimination backfires on Wal-Mart [Smith College Sophian]
The discrimination case adds to the series of lawsuits and bad press against Wal-Mart concerning its employment practices. In 2005, a lawsuit was filed against the Wal-Mart Corporation regarding its employment of illegal aliens for labor, but this current civil suit not only highlights the issues women face concerning employment with Wal-Mart but also the fact that pay discrimination is still rife in the United States.
Antioch Council Rejects Wal-Mart
- Antioch council rejects Wal-Mart expansion [Contra Costa (Calif.) Times via San Jose Mercury News]
Antioch’s City Council has rejected Wal-Mart’s plan to expand its Lone Tree Way store into a supercenter. Mayor Donald Freitas—along with council members Brian Kalinowski and Reggie Moore—voted against the expansion, with Councilmen Jim Davis and Arne Simonsen voting in favor. - Antioch officials turn down plan to expand Wal-Mart store into a supercenter [KESQ-Palm Springs, Calif.]
Calif. Wal-Mart officials say they haven’t decided what steps to take after Antioch city leaders turned down a proposal to expand one of their stores into a so-called supercenter store.In a three-to-two vote, the Antioch City Council rejected a plan to expand an existing Wal-Mart into a store of more than 200-thousand square feet. - Click here to read more about the Antioch, Calif. site fight.
Posted by Corey Himrod on Friday, February 16, 2007
Click Here for a Printer-Friendly Version
COMMENTS
Since this thread has so many subject titles, I suppose we just pick and write. Though all of them have been covered several times in the past with many postings.
However the biggest is, “health care”. Now just one simple question, if with the unions and companies and the government “Univeral Health Care for Everyone” is made into law and “paid” for by the government.
Who pays for it, how is the money attained to keep the program in existence?
Now when you answer that it brings many more aspects into play. Who administers it? Is it from cradle to grave? Every type of sickness, big or small? Surely you want the illegal “aliens” included or do you.?
What about the politicians --are they under the same program? How are Doctor fees established? Etc., etc.
Now to help me make up my mind, can anyone tell me of a government program of this magnitude that has worked successfully?
knoiwledgeable in
Saturday, February 17 at 01:45 PM
knowledgeable in
“Now to help me make up my mind, can anyone tell me of a government program of this magnitude that has worked successfully?”
This is the only one of your questions that I have a for sure answer for. The answer to this would have to be YES!!! In about 28 other countrys. For those of you that are about to jump all over me (kill the messenger) Almost every other other industrealized country in the world has managed to do it. Are we some how so inept that we aren’t able to do what the rest of the world is capable of? Are we shuch diferent beings thet we are incapable of doing what the rest of the plannet is able to do? For a nation that is proud of the fact that we set the standards, and the rest of the world follows are lead. We surly have droped the ball on this one!!!!! It looks like we are going to be the last ones to get on board. But I guess it’s better late than never.
DAVE SMITH
PROUD UNION IRONWORKER
IRONHEAD in Oklahoma City
Saturday, February 17 at 02:38 PM
knowledgeable asks about scale. Here are the populations of countries with universal health care:
Argentina- 40,060,000
Australia- 20,555,300
Austria- 8,292,322
Belgium- 10,419,000
Brazil- 188,078,261
Canada- 32,830,400
Cuba- 11,382,820
Denmark- 5,447,084
Finland- 5,276,571
France- 64,102,140
Germany- 82,438,000
Greece- 11,244,118
Ireland- 4,234,925
Israel- 7,100,000
Italy- 58,133,509
Japan- 128,085,000
The Netherlands- 16,491,461
New Zealand- 4,165,600
Norway- 4,640,219
Poland- 38,122,000
Portugal- 10,605,870
Russia- 142,400,000
Saudi Arabia- 27,019,731
Seychelles- 80,654
South Korea- 49,024,737
Spain- 44,708,964
Sri Lanka- 20,743,000
Sweden- 9,110,972
Taiwan- 23,036,087
United Kingdom- 60,609,153
For comparison, the population of the United States is about 301,172,000.
The success of these programs is another matter of debate.
Someone in USA
Saturday, February 17 at 05:19 PM
Why is it that the people advocate always demand that the US be like other countries? What is wrong with the US? We are the only nation on Earth where people are literally dying to get in. There must be something worthwhile here.
Universal health care is Universal in name only. Both Great Britain and Canada have “Universal” health care. Yet, when wealthy Brits or Canadians need complicated procedures or advanced tests, they come to the Cleveland Clinic or the Mayo Clinic or some other advanced US hospital. I can’t tell you how many foreign children get surgery at Children’s Hospital in Pittsburgh. Many of them come from nations with “Universal” health care. Why is that?
The logic of “free” or “universal” anything is very simple: people will use more of something if there is a disconnect between use and cost. If you say you will limit health care, visits, treatments, etc. then you favor rationed care, which is not what is promised by advocates of Universal health care. We CAN slow down the inflation rate of health care in this country through several free market changes. The system is great; the bureaucracy is not. We have the most advanced health care system in the world. Our poor people have it better than Kings and Queens of the 19th Century. We can fix our system but it will require standing up to the government, the AMA and the perpetual welfare constituency.
EllisW in
Saturday, February 17 at 09:44 PM
knowledgeable,
“Surely you want the illegal “aliens” included or do you.?”
Doesn’t “Universal”, mean to cover Everyone? How about the following:
Drug Dealers,
Career Criminals,
Gang Members.
How much, are the working taxpayers expected to provide for the welfare of the people who have decided they don’t want to participate in activities that are ‘good’ for society and their own welfare? As long as we promote the welfare ethic, more and more people will go that way, until this country goes down the drain.
Years ago, a study was done and the conclusion was, that if the government bought everyone on welfare a “new” house, it could save millions on rent subsidies for the ‘poor’, but, it was also figured, that it wouldn’t be long, before almost everyone would put themselves into a position to get a ‘free house’, instead of paying a mortgage for 30 years. So, the study concluded, that in the end, it would in fact cost the government more than it would save and so it was put on the shelf and not inplemented.
Bob in
Saturday, February 17 at 11:27 PM
“Now to help me make up my mind, can anyone tell me of ‘a government program’ of this magnitude that has worked successfully?”
knoiwledgeable in
Saturday, February 17 at 02:45 PM
You are speaking of government programs in general?
Just one answer alone- The Apollo program. With heavy involvement from many unions. A huge success with spin-offs both industrial and medical, so many to number.
Many called it aerospace welfare.
Some state governments are managing their programs far better than others. No doubt that the southern boarder states generally must contend with health care costs more so for illegals. However, I seem to remember that Danbury, CT was faced with the staggering reality that 20% of its population were illegal aliens (60 Minutes 2006).
Approx. 50% of medical costs in the U.S. are incurred in the last 6 months of life. Of the people filing for bankruptcy in the U.S. approx. 1/3 are doing so because of health care related expenses. Of those, more than half of them had medical insurance- Many state governments were and are now defying the U.S. government and purchasing bulk medications from outside the U.S. (some resolution may have occurred on this issue) for their prison populations and other state programs. The CDC is very well managed while the operation of the FDA (a corporate crack house of competitive financial interests) is at the expense of the general public. Drug trial costs are largely but not exclusively pull by corporate.
Many doctors are going ‘naked’ (without malpractice coverage) and using asset trust instruments to protect themselves from lawsuits. Fee for service has come back heavy as some doctor/medical groups refuse insurance company payment schemes altogether and the crap insurance companies pull with health care interference and expenditures in the U.S.
Often what appear to be private medical systems are heavily funded with taxpayer monies already. A local university with various corporate features. Especially in the biolabs and clinical trials programs.
The military is a trapped pool of subjects for private company trials and experiments at the direction of the Pentagon. Because of these UCMJ dictates, military personnel from the first gulf war are prohibited from giving blood in the U.S. This is probably still in effect. Also any discoveries that occur from your blood donations to the RedCross or whoever that lead to financial rewards for a private company, the company is not required to share any of that reward with the donor.
Even more, the U.S. supreme court granted some time ago the right to patent lifeforms and DNA constructions and discoveries. The British have already constructed very limited human chimeras in the lab- Health care in many of its dimensions is a vast worldwide activity clearly requiring government restrictions and oversight. Many Americans are now going overseas for treatments and surgeries. The biology of the planet is aerospace connected at speed and that makes everybody at risk- Domestic U.S. health care is highly interconnected with the international exercise in health care both financially and technically.
SanDiegoView in
Saturday, February 17 at 11:32 PM
For those who want to get further than EllisW and Bobs limited evaluations of the Canadian vs American healthcare system, I would suggest that you read:
Canadian and American health care systems compared
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
You will find a good side by side evaluation of both showing the strengths and weakness of each.
Hey Bob......I will phone one of our local hospitals and see if they can turn away any gang members, drug dealers and career criminals tonight for you. What about people with parking tickets?
R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse
We will never forget what you did Walmart.
Never.
Alex in Ontario, Canada
Sunday, February 18 at 09:23 PM
Alex,
Glad to hear that Canada, supports societies undesirables, by giving them a free healthcare plan.
“I will phone one of our local hospitals and see if they can turn away any gang members, drug dealers and career criminals tonight for you.”
You don’t have to worry about that, because here in the U.S., these individuals will not be turned away, and will be treated already, and we don’t need Universal healthcare to provide them with care. The difference here is , that we will bill them for the service, but, probably will not be able to collect.
Bob in
Sunday, February 18 at 09:59 PM
Boob
“The difference here is , that we will bill them for the service, but, probably will not be able to collect.”
Thank you for making my point Boob!
That is exactly what I have been saying all along. Who is left to pick up the tab?...... The tax payers!.... The fact that these people who don’t pay their bills, in almost every instance, go to the emergency room for their healthcare. Instead of a 75.00 office visit we the tax payers are stuck with a 900.00 emergency room bill to take care of. It is exactly as I have argued in previous posts. We have both systems, but at a much, much higher rate. The answer is UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE!
DAVE SMITH
PROUD UNION IRONWORKER
IRONHEAD in Oklahoma City
Sunday, February 18 at 10:23 PM
IRONHEADED,
“Who is left to pick up the tab?...... The tax payers!....”
So, what you are saying, is that because criminals are now cheating the taxpayers, without being held accountable, we should change our system and just pay their bills. Wouldn’t it be better to make a system work the way it is supposed to, by holding people accountable for their medical bills? If a normal person can be held accountable for their bills, why should we give the criminals or anybody for that matter a pass? Universal Healthcare, will say to people, “Don’t worry about paying for healthcare at all, the taxpayers will pick up the tab”. The problem is NOT access to healthcare, it is WHO is going to pay for it, we need to put a legal effort towards making people responsible for paying their bills, not giving people a legal free pass for their bills and dumping them on the taxpayer. After Universal Healthcare, what would be the NEXT Universal thing to pass on to the taxpayers? How about Mortgage Defaults or Universal Auto Insurance? Or, maybe we could prevent starving by having Universal Grocery Care, that provides Free Food to everybody, on the taxpayers dime!!! What about Universal Credit Card Insurance, (don’t pay your credit card bill and the taxpayers will pick up the tab)!!! Sounds like some great ideas to me, how about you?
Bob in
Monday, February 19 at 11:31 AM
It is so weird reading my American neighbours worries about paying the bill for someone who is of poor reputation, yet at the same time you are paying possibly double that amount themselves because of their own healthcare system!
R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse
We will never forget what you did Walmart.
Alex in Ontario, Canada
Monday, February 19 at 03:15 PM
Alex
Bob is “cutting off his nose to spite his face” It is impossible to get it through hit head. It doesn’t matter that those of us that have insurance are over charged by the insurance companys, then have to pay for those that can’t aford to pay their medical care with TAX dollars. Boob would rather pay twice as much for our present system and only give office visits to those that can aford insurance, than pay half as much and give everyone good care. He can’t stand it that someone might “get somthing for nothing” thus “cutting off his nose to spite his face” so to speak........What a stingy self centered old bastard!
DAVE SMITH
PROUD UNION IRONWORKER
IRONHEAD in Oklahoma City
Monday, February 19 at 03:48 PM
The funny thing is that EllisW wrote earlier “The logic of “free” or “universal” anything is very simple...” yet no one here says it is free! We pay for it with our taxes. How many times will it be till she grasps this? The only persons that get free healthcare in Canada are the Americans that cross the border and pretend they are citizens. Our OHIP cards now have our pictures on it like a drivers permits to prevent that from happening.
R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse.
We will never forget what you did Walmart.
NEVER.
Alex in Ontario, Canada
Monday, February 19 at 04:07 PM
Alex
Being Canadian, you probably cannot understand how our economy works. This nation was founded as a Constitutional Republic and has evolved into a quasi-Socialist Democracy. Whenever government gets involved in anything, not only are your choices as an individual taken away, but the cost skyrockets. Why? Because government has no motivation to run a tight ship. They can always go back to the taxpayers for more.
You mention paying for health care with your taxes but did you know that the top 1% of wage earners pay more than 34.27% of all income taxes? That means that 99% of taxpayers (the people who actually work) pay just 65.73% of taxes. The top 50% (the upper half) pay more than 96.5%, leaving the bottom 50% contributing just 3.5% of the federal tax pie. On top of that, we have millions and soon to be many more millions, eligible for Ponzi scheme Taxpayer financed retirement benefits. We have a $600 billion prescription drug plan for seniors though 75% already had presecription coverage. We have millions of illegals, welfare bums and morons getting free ER care and we have tens of millions who just refuse to work and have to be supported by those who do.
Where will we get the money? Perhaps you could tell us how to pay for this, genius.
EllisW in
Monday, February 19 at 07:21 PM
IRONHEADED,
“It doesn’t matter that those of us that have insurance are over charged by the insurance companys,”
You seem to miss my point completely, but, that’s par for the course. The point is, we would neither have to pay high insurance premiums, nor taxes, if people were held responsible for their own bills in life. Either way, we are setting a ‘bad’ precident by constantly making it easier for people to shirk their responsibilities. Your wife mentioned Dead Beat Dads awhile back, why are they Dead Beat? It’s because no one holds them accountable for pay their child support, so, if there is a choice, to pay or not to pay, with no consequence, which way do a lot choose? You try to rationalize it by saying, “We pay for both now”, but, the answer is not to say will will condone ‘Bad Behavior”, it is better to start demanding people live up to the responsibilities of being adults and obeying society’s expected behavior patterns. It has nothing to do with my being stingy, it has to do with personal accountibility. It may not bother you that many people are doing things that anti-social and areliving off the sweat of others, and are being rewarded for that behavior by being given for free, what the taxpayers have to pay for, but it does bother me.
But, I guess I can expect no less, from people who believe in taking from one person and giving it to another.
Alex,
“yet no one here says it is free! We pay for it with our taxes.”
“The only persons that get free healthcare in Canada are the Americans that cross the border and pretend they are citizens.”
So, you are saying that Drug Dealers, Prostitutes, homeless, gang members, career criminals, and continously jobless pay taxes, right?
Bob in
Monday, February 19 at 07:36 PM
“Whenever government gets involved in anything, not only are your choices as an individual taken away, but the cost skyrockets. Why? Because government has no motivation to run a tight ship. They can always go back to the taxpayers for more.” wrote EllisW
If your government sucks so bad, why did Americans vote them in?
R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse.
We will never forget what you did Walmart.
Alex in Ontario, Canada
Monday, February 19 at 08:05 PM
“So, you are saying that Drug Dealers, Prostitutes, homeless, gang members, career criminals, and continously jobless pay taxes, right?” wrote Bob.
Not sure Bob, but I know your citizens didn’t pay the Canadian government any taxes, but still want to use our healthcare system. Now that is what I call “Free Healthcare”.
R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse
We will never forget what you did Walmart.
Alex in Ontario, Canada
Monday, February 19 at 08:09 PM
Exciting news.
Today I met a neighbour at a mall and we got talking about retail business. I was able to tell her a little about how Walmart has helped good paying jobs to pick up and leave for other parts of the world to exploit workers with slave like wages and working conditions.
I believe that a seed has been planted.
R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse.
We will never forget what you did Walmart.
Never.
Alex in Ontario, Canada
Monday, February 19 at 08:18 PM
Alex,
“but I know your citizens didn’t pay the Canadian government any taxes, but still want to use our healthcare system. Now that is what I call “Free Healthcare”.”
That’s exactly my point, “abuse of the system”, by people who aren’t honest. Why would we want that in our country? I would like to see everyone become accountable and pay for the services they use.
Bob in
Monday, February 19 at 09:52 PM
“That’s exactly my point, “abuse of the system”, by people who aren’t honest. Why would we want that in our country? I would like to see everyone become accountable and pay for the services they use. “
Bob
Bob, what are you talking about?
Any Canadian as the right to healthcare whether they are rich or poor, old or young, black or white, male or female, in good health, bad health or somewhere in between.
Canadians are not abusing their system. The abusers Are from your country!!! (Though it is much harder to get away with it now I would think).
Alex in Ontario, Canada
Tuesday, February 20 at 05:17 AM
Alex
It doesn’t matter who we put in office. The results are the same. When they’re running for re-election or posturing on “Face The Nation”, Democrats and Republicans pretend to hate each other and fight over their differences. In reality, they are part of the same club and are usually good friends. Their # 1 goal in life is re-election to their cushy job, where they receive perks that most Americans could never dream up.
One of the major problems in this country is that every citizen can vote. The Founders never intended for this to happen. If they did, there would be a Voting Right written into the Constitution. The Founders never imagined that every moron would get to vote. If we went to a citizenship test, ie. you have to pass a basic test in US history, civics, Constitutional law and economics, we could weed out the dead wood. We should do away with straight party voting and we should require voters to know about each candidate before they go to vote. Imagine a corporation that let the employees and customers vote on a CEO. That corporation would be out of business. Those who have knowledge, who contribute, who have a desire to determine the fate of this nation, should vote. Those who gang bang, refuse to work, commit crimes, refuse to educate themselves or contribute to the financial or community good of society should be denied the right to vote. Nothing is more pathetic than Democracy.
I know, I know, the products of the public school system here will attack me and say “America is a Democracy! You are a moron! BLAH BLAH BLAH”. To which I need only reply: This nation was founded as a Constitutional Republic, meaning that we were given a small, limited central government with most powers granted, by the Constitution, to the states. Voting was intended to be limited to those with the knowledge to do so and those who contributed to the good of the nation. Our federal government was given the power to raise armies, collect taxes, manage the federal legal system, control currency and protect individual rights and liberties, all accomplished by a small government bureaucracy 100% funded by excise and import taxes. Read the 10th Amendment regarding limitation of powers. It will enlighten you.
EllisW in
Tuesday, February 20 at 09:21 AM
Alex,
“Any Canadian as the right to healthcare whether they are rich or poor, old or young, black or white, male or female, in good health, bad health or somewhere in between.
Canadians are not abusing their system.”
If you think that a system, which is paid for by taxpayers, is not being abused by people who recieve services, but NEVER pay taxes, then that is your delusion. Why would anyone be happy with a system, where taxpayers not only pay for their share of services, plus pay for the services used by people who never intend on paying taxes and prefer to suck off of the responsible citizens who do pay taxes? If you don’t mind paying for those who gang bang, refuse to work, commit crimes, refuse to educate themselves and contribute to the financial or community good of society, that’s fine, but just don’t ask me and others who find this wrong, to follow your lead. Our system is bad enough, without making it easier for the dead beat people in society to use the taxpayers money for their benefit. The only reason I could see for a person to push the Universal Healthcare program, would be if they were one of the people who would be direct beneficiaries of the free service, without having to pay anything towards it. Most educated people don’t like paying for themselves and a dead beat as well!!!
Bob in
Tuesday, February 20 at 11:26 AM
Boob
You become more ignorant with each stroke of the keys. You make these “dead beats” that NEVER “pay” taxes, as you put it, a central point of your arguments. You must have absolutly NO idea of how our tax system works.
Every time a anybody buys a gallon of gas they are “paying” state and federal taxes, the same goes for cigarettes, booze, or any number of things. Any time they buy anything with cash they are taxed on their items. Any time that they buy nonfood items they are charged state tax this is true in most of the states in the U.S. You need to find anouther arguing point because that one is FALSE.
DAVE SMITH
PROUD UNION IRONWORKER
IRONHEAD in Oklahoma City
Tuesday, February 20 at 05:06 PM
I do find this subject interesting because to me there is no debate at all. In fact if the whole United States population was happy with their healthcare system then that would be fine. However, I must tell you that I do not know even one person who wants your system here. The Canadian system has it’s strenths and drawbacks but we want it to get better, but not change the fundementals.
The best way I can express how I feel about Bobs concerns (drug dealers, criminals, deadbeats etc. using our healthcare), is the following:
I believe that we both pay taxes for our roads and hiways.
The person driving beside me may be a drug dealer, criminal, deadbeat or goodness knows what. They may even be speeding on that road that my taxes and others paid for.
Are you angry that your taxes paid for some gangbanger or outlaw biker gang to get from A to B? Probably not. Also Bob seems to forget that we are paying less no matter who uses it. I feel good that no matter how poor a family is, or unfortunate circumstances, no child, elderly person, disabled person, will be denied treatment.
Some people underuse the healthcare system. My brother was told by his doctor that his file was too thin. He hadn’t been to get any kind of preventative checkups in 20 years.
So I will say again, if you are happy with your healthcare system, then that is fine. But I believe that some Americans (possibly like yourself) feal threatened that we are not affirming your system as being the prefered. Sorry, but that is not going to change.
EllisW, you are very different (I hope) from the average American. In fact with the values you display I would almost question if you really are a freedom loving American person.
Your measuring of a persons worth kind of reminds me of something that happened in Europe between the 1930’s and the first half of the 1940’s by a certain political movement.
Should we be measuring the size of a persons head before they are allowed to vote in an election? You frighten me.
R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse.
We will never forget what you did Walmart.
Never.
Alex in Ontario, Canada
Tuesday, February 20 at 06:00 PM
Wal-Mart Reports Record Fourth Quarter Sales and
Earnings2-20-07 6:30 AM EST
BENTONVILLE, Ark., Feb. 20 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/—Wal-Mart Stores, Inc. (NYSE: WMT) today reported record sales and earnings for the quarter ended Jan. 31, 2007. Net sales for the fourth quarter were $98.090 billion, an increase of 10.9 percent over the fourth quarter of fiscal year 2006. Income from continuing operations for the quarter was $3.940 billion, an increase of 8.8 percent from $3.621 billion in the fourth quarter of fiscal year 2006.
Earnings per share from continuing operations were $0.95, up from $0.87 per share in the same prior year quarter. Fourth quarter earnings in fiscal 2007 were favorably impacted by a $98 million net tax benefit recorded in the Company’s tax provision. This $0.02 per share net benefit arose primarily from the resolution of certain tax matters related to transfer pricing and the renewal of the Work Opportunity Tax Credit.
Net sales for the fiscal year ended Jan. 31, 2007, were $344.992 billion, an increase of 11.7 percent over fiscal year 2006. Income from continuing operations for the fiscal year ended Jan. 31, 2007, increased 6.7 percent to $12.178 billion, up from $11.408 billion in the prior year. Diluted earnings per share from continuing operations for the fiscal year ended Jan. 31, 2007, were $2.92, up from $2.72 in the prior year.
The dispositions of the Company’s operations in South Korea and Germany, completed during the third quarter of fiscal year 2007, continue to be accounted for as discontinued operations in the accompanying financial statements.
“We are extremely pleased to close fiscal year 2007 with both record sales and earnings,” said Lee Scott, Wal-Mart Stores, Inc. president and chief executive officer. “The Wal-Mart associates around the world stepped up and delivered a wonderful fourth quarter and I am encouraged by their achievements as we head into the current fiscal year. Our Company’s performance for the fiscal year was helped by a strong fourth quarter. Even if you take into account the discontinued operations, we still had record results.”
Scott said that Wal-Mart customers around the world benefited from low prices.
“It’s a reaffirmation of the proposition that’s synonymous with Wal-Mart - - saving people money so they can live better,” said Scott. “Sam Walton started our Company in 1962 with this simple principle. And this is the mission that drives our strategy around the world today.”
EllisW in
Tuesday, February 20 at 07:07 PM
IRONHEADED and Alex,
While you are correct, that the undesirables DO pay taxes for the things that they buy, (except shoplifters), those taxes go mostly for things like roads, etc., not healthcare. But, beyond that, consider where their money comes from!! While your tax money comes from your job, theirs comes from sales of drugs, robberies, muggings, prostitution, and many other Illegal sources, in other words, “BLOOD MONEY”. If this is the way you prefer to support your healthcare system, fine, but, I would like to see a system that rewards legal sources of income and taxes, not illegal sources of income and some taxes. I don’t want to see someone say to themselves, “Gee, taxes are going up to pay for Universal Healthcare, so I am going to have to spend more time robbing more people”.
Bob in
Wednesday, February 21 at 12:22 AM
Boob
Not everyone that doesn’t work a “job” declaires what little income that they make. I know people that do lawn care in the summer and cut wood to later sell in the winter. All their income is cash, I don’t know if they report it all or not. I know people that dig roots, snake root, skull cap, milk weed root, ginsing,ect. I don’t know if they report their income, after all, it’s all cash. I know people that do farm and ranch work as well as any number of cash jobs ranging from picking up cans to scrapping junk, I don’t know if they report their income or not, frankly its none of my business. The point is Boob, none of these people are Muggers, Drug dealers, prostitutes, or any other Illegal “profession. They may not earn much but what they do earn keeps a roof over their heads as well as their familys. They may or may not report their income to the IRS, but even if they don’t, they still pay taxes. BTW Boob even shoplifters have to pay for things from time to time (gas, cig’s, booze, ect) and when they do, they pay tax. Those that I listed make an honest living, and not one dime is “Blood Money” unless the blood was theirs.
DAVE SMITH
PROUD UNION IRONWORKER
IRONHEAD in Oklahoma City
Wednesday, February 21 at 12:53 AM
Bob, unless you have an incredible crime problem, your arguement is grasping at straws.
As I said before, no one I know wants your system.
If you folks are scared to death of the unknown, then that is something you will have to deal with.
Good luck.
R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse
We will never forget what you did Walmart.
Never.
Alex in Ontario, Canada
Wednesday, February 21 at 05:09 AM
Hey EllisW
Thanks for the quote:
““It’s a reaffirmation of the proposition that’s synonymous with Wal-Mart - - saving people money so they can live better,” said Scott. “Sam Walton started our Company in 1962 with this simple principle. And this is the mission that drives our strategy around the world today.”
Your idol Sam started off supporting your American manufacturing.
Love the quote. Bullshit baffles brains EllisW
R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse
We will never forget what you did Walmart.
Never.
Alex in Ontario, Canada
Wednesday, February 21 at 05:15 AM
Alex
Are you mentally challenged? I’m sorry to throw that term out but you post some of the most ridiculous drivel I’ve ever read. Please show me where, in that quote you selectively pulled, there is any information regarding the support of American manufacturing. I’m dying to know. Perhaps you can read something into simple words.
If you had read Mr. Sam’s autobiography, you would know that he supported American manufacturing if he could get a quality product within 10% of the foreign manufactured product. With the power of unions and the continued growth of low cost producers overseas, Wal-Mart must go where they can get the best prices. Mr. Sam’s goal was to sell quality products at the lowest possible prices so that customers would be able to keep more of their money.
Wal-Mart has always put the customer first and they still put the customer first. I don’t know how anyone can say they’ve lost their way. Mr. Sam had a vision for Wal-Mart and they are still following through on it. Mr. Sam did not believe in American manufactured at any price nor did he believe in paying outrageous wages to his workers. His formula was successful and apparently still is, as Wal-Mart just completed their 44th straight year of record sales & profits.
EllisW in
Wednesday, February 21 at 09:24 AM
IRONHEADED,
“I don’t know if they report their income or not, frankly its none of my business.”
As not paying taxes on income, is illegal, I find it hard to understand how you think this is none of your business, as you claim to be a real American. I have noticed in many of your posts, that you tend to defend people who do ILLEGAL things. You have defended ‘illegal aliens’, shoplifters, people who bring false lawsuits, people who don’t pay their ‘fair share’ of taxes, etc., etc. I believe it is the responsibility of all real Americans to obey the law and work to see that others obey it as well. To condone illegal activity, because the person may be poor, is giving them an excuse to continue their illegal activities. It also encourages others to engage in illegal activities, when they see people getting away with it. I don’t think, when they formed this country, they said, “The laws we make, should only apply to people who decide they want to obey them”. When a real American sees someone commiting a crime, it is their duty as a citizen to report it, not look the other way, because you feel sorry for them. When you look the other way, that makes you complicit in that crime. And, you have to remember, that ANYONE is breaking the law, even if it is getting welfare money under false pretenses or don’t pay taxes on money made ‘under the table (or for ‘cash’ as you put it). And, whether you agree or not, someone who goes to the emergency room for healthcare, knowing they can’t pay for it, is ‘stealing’ from others who end up paying for it.
Bob in
Wednesday, February 21 at 10:16 AM
Bob wrote: Why would we want that in our country?
All your railing against Canadian healthcare, Bob, brought to mind this article from last summer. (I hope this sets your teeth on edge.)
SEATTLE (AP) — About 40 percent of the state’s annual dental budget for prisoners in Washington goes toward repairing or removing teeth ravaged by methamphetamine.
http://www.democratherald.com/articles/2006/06/04/news/oregon/west02.txt
Can anyone tell me the HTML code for imbedding a url in a post?
Ken V in Texas
Wednesday, February 21 at 11:30 AM
Boob
First of all I don’t make it my business to question or investigate my neibours activitys. I don’t spy on my freinds and report them to the authoritys as you obviously do. I know that most people have streached the truth at one time or anouther on their taxes, as I’m quite sure you have, used a receipt that wasn’t theirs or said that they gave more to charity than they did, and so on. The fact is Boob, I’m not a RAT (run and tell) type person I save that for the nosie assed OLD NAZI’S, like your self.
“And, whether you agree or not, someone who goes to the emergency room for healthcare, knowing they can’t pay for it, is ‘stealing’ from others who end up paying for it.”
So then you would have a homeless mother with a deathly ill child go to prison for theft, for taking her child to the emergency room. You would have a parent that is working at wal mart that’s child has cut off a hand in a mower accident, just let them bleed to death, because they can’t aford to pay the medical bill at the emergency room. Or how about that unemployed, just let her die in the streets or give her treatment and imprision the parent because they don’t have the money to pay the medical bill. Boob you truly are a DISCUSTING PIG!
DAVE SMITH
PROUD UNION IRONWORKER
IRONHEAD in Oklahoma City
Wednesday, February 21 at 01:05 PM
So EllisW, your Sam really had a “Buy American manufacturing if he could get a quality product within 10% of the foreign manufactured product” promotion”?
Was that in the fine print after the word American?
I love when you post EllisW.
R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse.
We will never forget what you did Walmart.
NEVER.
Alex in Ontario, Canada
Wednesday, February 21 at 10:46 PM
IRONHEADED,
First off, you fail to recognize how these people got themselves into these situations!!!
“So then you would have a homeless mother with a deathly ill child go to prison for theft, for taking her child to the emergency room.”
Why is this woman homeless in the first place, why doesn’t she get a job and a place to live? If she has a child, she should do whatever she needs to do to provide for that child and if that means getting a job, then so be it. Plus, they have homeless shelters, churches, charities, etc., that could help her get back on her feet, not to mention welfare.
“You would have a parent that is working at wal mart that’s child has cut off a hand in a mower accident, just let them bleed to death, because they can’t aford to pay the medical bill at the emergency room.”
If she works at Wal-Mart, then she should give up that cell phone and other luxuries (cable, eating at fast food places, etc.) and buy some insurance. Or, they can do as you mention all the time, go on the government healthcare. Here in Arkansas, they have a program to insure that kids have medical care, I believe it’s called “Kid’s First”.
“ how about that unemployed, just let her die in the streets or give her treatment and imprision the parent because they don’t have the money to pay the medical bill.”
There is this thing called unemployment compensation that pays benefits for 26 weeks and you can qualify for welfare programs while unemployed. That 26 weeks equals 1/2 a year, if you really try, you should be able to find a job by then. Then, with a job, you should be able to obtain insurance.
Lastly, can you explain to me, why it is, that the majority of people in this country, can manage to live without being homeless with children, have insurance and have jobs, yet some people never can keep their lives together long enough to get ahead in life and live in constant turmoil? If I were a drug abuser and didn’t work, because I was high most of the time, why would that not be my fault, and why should I be able to depend on YOU to pay my way through life? I know many people who have made a job out of living off handouts and other peoples generosity, “WORK” to them is a dirty four letter word. My wife knows a woman who is 42 years old, has 2 children and has not worked more than a total of 6 months in the last 16 years, why is that? She is perfectly capable of working, just doesn’t want to, as she gets all she needs without working!!!
Bob in
Thursday, February 22 at 12:31 AM
“If I were a drug abuser and didn’t work, because I was high most of the time...”
You could always become a paid Wal-Mart blogger.
Ken V in Texas
Monday, February 26 at 12:39 PM
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