Is Wal-Mart Really a ‘Green’ Company?

I think that if Walmartwatch cared more about actually helping the environment than it does unionizing Wal-Mart, they would be supporting Wal-Mart’s green efforts rather than constantly criticizing them.

I think that if Walmart cared more about actually helping their employees than it does abandoning them to welfare and food stamps and health care for the government to pick up, and if Walmart stopped spending all that money on hostility against a “living wage”, and stopped keeping their employees poor, then maybe the criticism would go away and helping the environment would actually get some support of a genuine type from people who could afford to recognize Walmart’s green initiative other than the Walton’s selfish greedy and manipulative rolling around in labor’s hard earned money.

I was reading some of the referenced articles, well anything that was recent anyway.  I found this article on grist.org and the associated comments to be interesting reading.

This article by Erin Zeiss appears to be an opinion piece from the University at Vermont’s student newspaper (Erin was apparently a freshman when she wrote it). The column’s facts are almost entirely from Vermont Wal-mart Watch, if you are interested in reading more.

Maybe YOU Can Tell Us, tjc

Since you seem to be interested in the source of “facts,” maybe you can tell us where Nick gets all of his “facts,” since he won’t.  A good place to start is Walmartfacts.com-- not that we care or are “interested in reading more.”

Scott

Would you please explain to me just how Wal-Mart “keeps its employees poor”?

Let’s be very clear here. Generally, in free-market America, employment exists in a supply/demand market. Let me give you two examples. The first is doctors. They earn $200,000 + per year, on average. The second is Wal-Mart shelf stockers, who earn roughly $20,000, if they work full-time. Why do doctors earn 10 times as much as a shelf stocker? Look at the comparisons:

EDUCATION REQUIREMENTS:

Doctors: 4 years of college, 4 years of medical school, 1 to 3 years of internship, 3-8 years of residency, numerous tests and requirements and licensing exams. Time from high school to earning the first paycheck above $50,000? At least 12 years, possibly up to 19 or 20 years.

Shelf-stocker: High school education or GED. No college required. No internship required. Very easy job to get and very easy to do. No licensing requirements.

Now, why are doctors earning more than shelf stockers? Well, you have to look at the job requirements. Generally, the more difficult the job, the fewer people available to do it. 99% of Americans can stock shelves. If there are fewer qualified people than there are jobs, wages go up. If there are more qualified people than there are jobs, wages go down. Doctors earn more than shelf stockers because it is far more difficult and time consuming to become a doctor. Stocking shelves requires no special skills.

In short, you are paid based on the value of the job to the person writing the check. Wal-Mart doesn’t HAVE to pay shelf stockers $200,000 per year because there are so many people willing and able to work for $20,000. Hospitals don’t pay doctors $20,000 because not a single doctor will work for less than $100,000. Very simple. Supply and demand.

Now that we have compensation out of the way, let’s address the other part of your comment. Is your employer responsible for your expenses? Health, life, auto, homeowners and disability insurance are things that personally protect and benefit YOU. Why would your employer pay for something from which they derive no benefit? Do you pay for your neighbors’ oil changes? He needs them, doesn’t he? If you cannot control your expenses, you have only yourself to blame.

Example: a young woman works at Wal-Mart as a cashier. She earns $15,000 per year. She has no children, drives a cheap used car, buys simple, inexpensive clothes, cooks dinner at home in her affordable apartment and takes advantage of her 401k. She also saves what she can, clips coupons, does without expensive dinners, makeup, jewelry and cable. She saves and borrows to pay her way through school, working at Wal-Mart to pay the bills. She is responsible, and will probably be a big success. Compare her with.................a young woman who has 4 children to 3 different men, all losers. She works at Wal-Mart as a cashier and earns $15,000 per year. Because she was stupid enough to keep having babies, she needs childcare. But she also gets food stamps, welfare, free healthcare, subsidized housing and utilities, etc. She pays no taxes and, because of the welfare known as the EIC, she gets a refund for more than she paid in. She will probably blow her money and live in poverty for life.

Now, why will cashier 1 live a better life than cashier 2?

1. Thrift
2. Self-restraint
3. Self-reliance
4. Goal setting
5. Making good choices
6. Personal responsibility
7. Ambition
8. Good money management
9. Desire
10. Discipline

If you lack these 10 things, you will most likely be poor, even if you earn $100,000 + per year. This is not complicated. Most “poor” people have free housing, utilities, food, health care, clothing, education, etc. in addition to microwaves, big screen TVs, computers, washers and dryers, stove/ovens, cars, DVD players, stereos, etc. Most of the “poor” in this country receive far more in benefits than they earn in wages. The poverty levels in this country are based on INCOME. They do not take benefits into consideration.

Most poor people are poor because they made poor choices.

“Would you please explain to me just how Wal-Mart “keeps its employees poor”?”
Nick

Scott you may know this already-

Wal-Mart founder Sam Walton once said, “I pay low wages. I can take advantage of that. We’re going to be successful, but the basis is a very low-wage, low-benefit model of employment.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Wal-Mart#_note-iswalmartgood
“Is Wal-Mart Good for America?” PBS. November 16, 2004. Retrieved on February 24, 2007

The annual turnover rate for employees at WalMart is known to be over 60%. People just cannot afford to work there under poverty laden conditions that continue to afflict those that are entrapped and cannot get out. WalMart knows that and can ‘manipulate’ a local pool of cheap labor that has no alternative in the ‘good paying jobs’ busting exercise of the WalMart business model.

The WalMart impoverishment model is complete with all the welfare you mentioned for the employees who are cheated out of a decent ‘living wage’ by the corporate sleaze bags wanting subsidies at the taxpayer expense to fund those Walton billionaires. You are making impoverishment wages and paying the taxes to fuel the very engine of wage poverty that keeps so many on the welfare dime, courtesy of the ‘low wage leader’ ‘low benefit’ model of WalMart.

The average wage over at Costco is >$17/hr and they pay 92% of the health care costs. After 2 years the average employees is making $40,000/year is an employee/labor advancement model of social responsibility. Something WalMart and Nick cannot and refuse to understand or admit to as it will interfere with the billions the Waltons are soaking up from “labor’s hard earned money”. A corporate managerial shareholder form of theft taken at the expense of labor.

WalMart- “Living Wages?” “Health Care Benefits” We don’t understand. And we don’t want to either.

“Most poor people are poor because they made poor choices.”
Nick

No they are not. Most people are poor because of various exploitations including the ‘low wage’ model and a refusal to pay a ‘living wage’.

SDV

So should I pay you on the basis of YOUR need and not on mine? Should I pay you based on your demands and not on what you bring to the table? Should people be compensated on the basis of needs and not on the basis of supply and demand? Whatever happened to pay for performance, contribution, education, skills, market demographics, etc?

I’ll tell you what. You round up 1,000 guys willing to do manual labor. I will round up 2 guys willing to invest $50 million. Which group will create more jobs? Which group will create more tax revenues? Which groups will create a company that contributes? Where do you think jobs come from? Do workers one day get a wild idea such as “let’s go stock some shelves!”? What would carpenters do if there were no people with money paying for the construction of a new building? Where would steelworkers create steel if not for the $1 billion + in new equipment-PAID FOR WITH CAPITAL? How much of Eddie Lampert’s $1 billion in income last year came out of the pockets of labor? (Hint: $0). How many jobs did Eddie Lampert save through his purchase of K-Mart and Sears? Wouldn’t these people at K-Mart be unemployed if Lampert hadn’t invested his own money?

Almost anyone can stock a shelf. How many of us can cough up the capital to create jobs?

You claim that Wal-Mart “exploits” workers due to a lack of options and by taking advantage of the local labor pool. Well, aren’t there all kinds of $40,000 + a year jobs at Costco? What about the high paying jobs at Target and Kroger? Where are those jobs?

Speaking of jobs, did you know that the Carpenters’ Union pays homeless people $8 per hour and no benefits to picket and protest for higher union wages? What nerve on these people! “We demand higher union wages and benefits! We will picket you until we get them! We are sending over 20 homeless people at $1 above minimum wage and no benefits!”

SDV, please stop copying and pasting the same Sam Walton quote. It is ridiculous and misleading. What Sam Walton was saying was, he can take advantage of his cost structure to make Wal-Mart successful-something ALL businesses try to do. Does Target pay high wages and luxury benefits? Does K-Mart pay enough to support a family of five? Don’t all American companies try and reduce costs and outsource to increase margins? US Steel’s plants in Eastern Europe are three times as profitable as their US plants. They then sell the steel they make overseas at high US prices. Are they bad guys?

I suppose the world would be a better place if all companies just followed the Costco model: unsustainable wage and benefit packages that spoil employees and stick it to shareholders. Costco employees paid 0% of their health premiums not too long ago. Then it went to 4%. Two years ago, it went to 8% and Jim Sinegal is under pressure to increase it again. Time will tell. I really like Costco as a shopping experience and I respect them for getting by so far with this model but you cannot spoil employees forever and expect to keep your costs down. Look at GM and Ford. Spoil the employees and look towards bankruptcy court. It’s the American way.

What exactly is a living wage and why should you be paid on the basis of need and not on the basis of ability? “From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs”. Recognize that? It is a famous line from Karl Marx, the father of modern Socialism (and hero of Hussein Obama, Hussy Clinton and the Breck Girl). Do you think the US is a Socialist country? Are you attacking capitalism?

Please explain why you think Socialism is preferable to Capitalism and how your economic policies will help America.......

“SDV, please stop copying and pasting the same Sam Walton quote. It is ridiculous and misleading. What Sam Walton was saying was, he can take advantage of his cost structure to make Wal-Mart successful-something ALL businesses try to do.”
Nick avoiding Sam Walton’s labor exploitation philosophy-

Capitalism is best when it behaves itself. Socialism and the unions knocking at WalMart’s door are the result of exploitation of labor. WalMart refuses to learn that lesson and accept the truth about paying labor justly as exampled in the 25 year span (1947-1972) of U.S. automotive stability and profit and UAW benefit for labor, it escapes you because the ‘love of money’ will not allow you to value labor as people and the cost of living is not a consideration by your own admission. It is indifference to reality and hostility to the cost of living truth and sharing the wealth with the labor that created it. Hostility to labor is hostility to people.

Proverbs 29:7 will not interest you either-

“The righteous considereth the cause of the poor: but the wicked regardeth not to know it.”

Wal-Mart founder Sam Walton once said, “I pay low wages. I can take advantage of that. We’re going to be successful, but the basis is a very low-wage, low-benefit model of employment.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Wal-Mart#_note-iswalmartgood
“Is Wal-Mart Good for America?” PBS. November 16, 2004. Retrieved on February 24, 2007

WalMart- “Living Wages” are not something we are going to pay. Whatever the difference is between what we pay and what the cost of living is… Let the taxpayer suckers pay for it in welfare and subsidies. Nick does not mind paying for that kind of capitalism, send him the bill.

Money swore an oath that nobody that did not love it should not have it.
Irish Proverb

As I would not be a slave, so I would not be a master. This expresses my idea of democracy.
Abraham Lincoln

“For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.”
1 Tim. 6:10

WalMart/Sam Walton/Nick- I don’t get it.

SDV,

“WalMart/Sam Walton/Nick- I don’t get it.”

Sorry, but it is YOU that don’t get it!!  It is setting goals, ambition and drive to succeed, that push people to press for higher financial positions (ie: poverty to middle class), the American Dream!!  People who drift through life, living only for today and not caring about tomorrow, tend to remain stagnant, with NO upward movement!!  Giving people everything they need to live, without the effort to succeed on their part, tends to reduce ambition and the drive to succeed, why push ahead, when you can get everything you need where you are?  Where will all the future Leaders come from, without that drive?  Where will all the ‘new’ businesses come from if no one goes beyond ‘stocking shelves” for $20.00 an hour and full benefits?  Lastly, when people are dependant on the government, which would eventually be the ones to pick up the lack of capital investment and nationalize industry, it would follow that they would also dictate, like any other socialistic society, where you work and how you will live!!  All one has to do is look at former Russia, and Cuba, to see the results of giving up “Personal Responsibility’!!  Paying people based on NEED, results in giving up ‘Personal Responsibility’ and in the end, “Freedom”!!  What you fail to grasp, is what has been referred to as “The Pioneer Spirit”, that lead our ancestors to build this country!!  Do you think that people would have ever moved WEST, if everything they needed was supplied to them in the EAST?  All you get from a ‘Welfare Mentality’, is people on welfare!!  You have to work hard for “The American Dream”, if you have it given to you, it is no longer a Dream!!

As for Sam Walton paying low wages, did you ever reasearch how many Wal-Mart employees became very wealthy from the stock they invested in?  Many became millionaires!!

SanDiego-

Great to see you back, brother!  Missed you around here.......

I have a friend who needs a job............since you work at Costco, can you give me a hint on what he needs to do to get one of those $17 jobs?

Thanks!!

Jake

Scott,

“then maybe the criticism would go away”

The criticism will NOT go away, until the unions win and get their fingers on dues money from Wal-Mart employees!!  That is what ALL of this is all about, “unionizing Wal-Mart” and getting dues from 1.5 million employees!!  If you read the articles, you can see, that nothing here, is any worse than anywhere else in the retail sector or most other businesses for that matter!!

“stopped keeping their employees poor”

The wages at Wal-Mart are well above the poverty level, except for single women with 3 to 4 children!!  Wal-Mart is NOT keeping their employees poor, the employees, by their choices, are keeping themselves poor, by working at a job that doesn’t fulfill their income NEEDS!!  MOST of Wal-Mart’s employees AREN"T living in poverty!!

I have read the above posts , and found it most interesting how one man can say its a single mother with 3 or 4 children with different fathers thats in that poverty level . How stereo-typical of someone who wouldn’t know what poverty was if it bit him in his backside . I happen to be an ex-employee of WM . I stocked overnight , starting pay was 6.50 and hour . At my eval I was given a 50 cent raise . My performance was a “ meet “ and mr know it all up there will know exactly what I am referring to . I worked harder than most there , a new guy comes in , kiss butt well , is given a 90 cent raise , he is off on break playing around on video games , and doesn’t come back on time , ever ! And those of us whom work work hard . Yet as a single mother of 2 children , I make 40 cents less an hour than he does , he gets the cushy jobs , I pull pallets around with tons of food and he walks around with upper night management because he can suck up better . You’re right on one thing tho , quit , if the pay is not good , just quit and go elsewhere . Thats exactly what I did after I was hurt on the job , and the Store manager wouldn’t let me have a job more suited to my ability . His attitude was that I could pull pallets with tons of canned goods better than I could work in the garden center , bakery , fabric , etc ....
Its all about the Almighty dollar with WM , nothing more , not worries of employee’s and their health , or their bodies , nor their families .... work em till they drop , bury em far away from sight , move another work horse in their place ....

And thats all I am gonna say because this is so very stupid to even comment on anyway , because just like the grievances I filed within the WM I worked , its just falling on the ears of those deaf

Anna

I am sorry to hear about your experience at Wal-Mart. It is not the norm. But I do have one question for you. You claim that employers don’t care about employees. Perhaps that is true. But do employees care about their employers? Employees can go elsewhere for a better job, more money, etc. Why can’t employers look elsewhere for better workers, lower costs, etc?

Nick,

“But do employees care about their employers?”

What about employees who ‘bad mouth’ their employer, employees who shop elsewhere, even though prices might be higher or employees who keep making demands?

Wal-Mart has an “Open Door” policy and expects it to be used to help make the company ‘better’, but employees like to use it to complain and gripe and offer up “ the grievances I filed within the WM I worked”!!  Most companies like to hear feedback from employees, but, hate to hear employees constantly complaining about wages, benefits, scheduling, breaks, etc., and they also don’t like to hear all the lame excuses employees come up with, to explain why they weren’t at work yesterday or why they can’t do this or can’t do that!!

Once, where I worked, an employee said he didn’t call in for 2 days, because “he had temporary amnesia and forgot where he worked”, and he expected management to buy that one!!  After you hear enough of these, you start to question most!!  Another guy claimed, he “Hadn’t come to work or called in for 3 days, because he didn’t have any gas in his car and didn’t have a dime for the payphone”!!  Bet, if he came to work more often, he would have gas for his car and a dime for the payphone, don’t you think?

...a dime for the payphone...

Dime?

Hey, RDS!  What year is it?

Ken V,

If you guys would just realize how higher wages affect inflation, you would understand why a DOLLAR keeps shrinking in value!!  Then, you complain about high prices!!  Take a car for instance, if there are 2,000 componants, made by 1,500 companies, and workers in every company get a raise, that is 1,500 raises added to the price of the car!!  You tend to look at things on a 1 person or family point of view, but, fail to see the ‘big picture’!!

What is a dollar worth today in 1970 dollars?  And, what will a dollar be worth, 37 years from now, if things remain the same?  How long will it be, before a ‘cheap’ car will cost $40,000.00?  The price of a McDonalds hamburger is 600% more than when McDonalds started selling them, will it be $5.40, 40 years from now and $18.99 for a ‘Big Mac’, $6.00 for a small fries, and $6.00 for a small soft drink?  How much will people need to earn to afford that?

If you guys would just realize how higher wages affect inflation, you would understand why a DOLLAR keeps shrinking in value!!

Sorry, RDS, I don’t believe in inflation. If raising CEO’s compensation by astronomical amounts doesn’t inflate the economy, why should raising wages at the bottom?

Naah, ‘inflation’ is just another construct of the Man to keep us poor people down.

Ken

There are tens of millions of people who work at the bottom end of the wage scale. There are only 1,000 CEO’s at the top 1,000 companies in America.

Now, do CEO’s get these huge sums of money to fail? No. Example: Hewlitt-Packard was looking for a CEO. They picked Carly Fiornia, who was working at Lucent. In order to get her to come to work for H-P, HP had to give her some guarantees. She had something like $30-$40 million coming from Lucent down the road. HP had to buy out that responsibility in order to get Fiornia to leave Lucent. She could have stayed at Lucent and gotten her $30 million. She was not paid to fail at HP. The same thing happened with Nardelli at Home Depot and other CEOs. People see Nardelli getting $240 million when he left Home Depot. But he had turned in record breaking sales and profits! He had worked for a very long time at GE and was one of three finalists for the CEO job there. In order to buy out his guarantees from GE, Home Depot had to agree to pay Nardelli X amount of money.

Also, CEO’s work 80-100 hours per week. GE’s CEO, Jeff Immelt, proudly discusses his career at GE, where he has worked for more than 20 years and worked at least 100 hours per week for that time. CEO’s are under immense pressure. They earn most of their money through stock options, which requires some performance on their part.

Question: If a company’s board said to you “Ken, we want you to take this CEO job. We will pay you $4 million per year, plus benefits and perks and millions more per year in stock grants and options”. Would you get all idealistic and say “No, dammit! That’s just too much money!” NO YOU WOULD NOT! Or, let’s say you are working at X Corporation. You have been there 20 years. You have at least $10 million guaranteed from X Corporation if you stay 25 years. Y Corporation comes along and offers you their CEO job. But they are in poor shape financially. Also, leaving X Corporation means you give up your guaranteed $10 million. SO, you will not take the job unless Y Corporation also guarantees you this $10 million. If they are offering you this job, they are desperate so you demand a $2 million per year salary, benefits, use of the corporate jet, an apartment and $50 million in stock grants. They agree. Now, 6 years later, you resign due to poor financial performance. The newspaper headlines read “Ken V paid $60 million to get fired! GREED GREED GREED”. Were you paid $60 million to get fired or were you paid $60 million to come to work at Y Corporation in the first place?

Class envy is such a childish concept. Of course, Social Democrats exploit this to turn the average Joe against CEO’s and Hedge Fund managers.

Envy may be our downfall.

It is not the norm.

I’d love to see how you arrived at that, Nick. (not by working at Wal-Mart, I’ll bet.)

Minimum Wage Rises, Sky Does Not Fall

A visit to Washington state, which has the highest minimum wage in the country, reveals a booming economy with none of the problems Big Business had been warning about.

Nick just because you shop at wm. doesn’t mean you know anything about wm. ~ bb

Now for some real green steps forward.
Out of the Financial Post:

FP Trading Desk
Loblaw goes bagless, plastic Cos unaffected – for now
Loblaw Cos. Inc. (L/TSX) president and CEO Galen Weston announced yesterday that the new Real Canadian Superstore in Milton, Ontario, will open at the end of August as Loblaw’s first bagless store. 

The new bagless store compliments the company’s plan to eliminate up to 1-billion plastic bags and is yet another blow to plastics manufacturers.

According to one plastics industry analyst, bagless stores are not yet likely to make a material impact on the industry, but it is another push in a growing worldwide trend towards the elimination of plastics through recycling programs and community and corporate-based plastic bans.

“Its all about green sustainability these days so the trend is on, the analyst said. “The question now is when does it get material enough to make a difference.”

David Pett

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse

R E M E M B E R
J A C K S O N V I L L E
T E X A S
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse

Alex,

“The new bagless store”

And, what do they expect the customers to do with their groceries, just throw them loosely in their cars?  OOPS!!, just found a tomato I bought 3 weeks ago that rolled under my front seat!!

“elimination of plastics through recycling programs”

Wal-Mart has plactic bag recycling boxes at the front of each store!!

There are only 1,000 CEO’s at the top 1,000 companies in America.

Wow! Really?

Inflated compensation isn’t limited to CEOs.

Wall Street awards itself billions in Christmas bonuses

Wall Street is awarding itself tens of billions in bonuses this winter. The fantastic amounts of money being handed out to investment bankers, securities traders and the like is symptomatic of the vast social divide that blights every aspect of American life.

That’s not inflationary, right?

An Institute for Policy Studies and United for a Fair Economy report estimates that if “minimum wage had risen at the same pace as CEO pay since 1990, it would be worth $22.61 today”

“Wal-Mart has plactic bag recycling boxes at the front of each store!!”

RDS in

Not too much new here Bob. Canadian retailers did the same thing, collecting used shopping bags in the fronts of the stores till years ago when they get picked up with all the other recycling items in the blue box programs in front of our houses. We now have even our food scraps being picked up for composting in many commuities.
As far as your produce sitting in your car for three weeks, there is still going to be bags available. Loblaws has been selling them along with the plastic bins. The bags are made out of plastic pop and water bottles and are reusable.
I think that Loblaws is ahead of everyone on this and it is not going to be long before there is a tax put on every disposable bag.  Some say as much as 25 cents. I will say that I agree with the direction they are going. I wonder how long it wll take till the other retailers get on board.

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse

R E M E M B E R
J A C K S O N V I L L E
T E X A S
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse

Alex,

We have a ‘bagless’ chain here in the USA, it’s called Aldi’s!!  It works this way, either you bring your own bags or you can use empty boxes from the store!!  You can also buy paper bags from the store, for 10 cents each!!  They also use a 25 cent cart rental, which let’s you use the cart and when you return it, you get your quarter returned, this helps keep the prices lower!!

Coin operated grocery carts?  Buy your own disposible bags (whether paper or plastic)? Sounds just like another discounter like our No Frills, Real Canadian Wholesale, Price Chopper, or Food Basics.  Don’t think I would call it bagless Bob. In fact lets look at what Wikipedia says:

In Germany, the US, Australia, The Netherlands, Ireland, and the UK, Aldi does not provide free plastic shopping bags. Instead the customer can purchase various types of plastic/recyclable bags at the checkout to cart the goods out of the store. The carriers range in Australia ranging from 15¢ through to $2.50, in Ireland plastic bags are subject to a 22c levy, commonly referred to as the “Plastic Bag levy”. Bags cost 6c in Germany, and in the UK from a standard sized carrier at 3p to a reusable carrier at 99p. In the US Aldi offers paper bags for 5¢, reusable plastic bags for 10¢ and insulated freezer bags for 99¢. In many USA stores, the freezer bags are only available during the summer months and holidays. Customers often utilize the emptied merchandise boxes from the shelves as another means to transport items.

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse

R E M E M B E R
J A C K S O N V I L L E
T E X A S
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse

Speaking of the environment and disposable old bags-

“The Morning News features today Camp War Eagle, a multi-million-dollar creation of Alice Walton through the family foundation. It will be a summer camp like no other, on the shore of Beaver Lake. It will be free to kids from families making less than $60,000 a year (worth almost $2,000 for a two-week session), and emphasize Christianity, patriotism and the environment. It is to open its gates to 2,400 kids this summer and provide help to kids year-round.”

A few comments on this NWArkansasTimes piece went like this from some locals there-

“Camp War Eagle? What a clever political expedition. The target group is those who will be needed as cannon fodder in the never-ending oil wars of the future. Indoctrinate them now with the ‘patriotic’ rubbish that serves as cover for the war profiteers, and they’ll be easier prey for the Army recruiters in a few years.”
Posted by: Will They Be Issued Little Brown Shirts?

“It’s good to see that it will be free for lower income families now.”
Posted by: Blue Dog Dem

“Come on, now, Blue Dog Dem. With all due respect, may I remind you that nothing in this world is “free?” Anytime Miss Alice or any of her blue-blooded ilk open their purses/wallets to the po’ folks, they have an agenda that leads, ultimately, right back to their purses and wallets. These children are like pine saplings to them, to be harvested later either as cannon fodder for future wars or as slave wage laborers in their big box establishments.”
Posted by: Economics 101

The old bag (Alice Walton) couldn’t build her recruitment plantation in Texas near her Brazos river because it was to polluted.

“‘patriotic’ rubbish”

First, it was “Personal Responsibility” is a Wacko concept and now we hear that “Patriotism” is rubbish!!  The ‘new’ fad here is a push for ‘Socialism’, didn’t someone once say “We will bury you from within”?

Alice does something nice and there HAS to be a catch to it, right?  Bet that if Wal-Mart were to raise wages to $18.00 an hour, we would hear, “Wal-Mart raises wages, to make COSTCO look bad”!!  It is claimed that the Walton’s don’t give enough to charity, then when they DO, it is claimed as underhanded!!  Damned if you DO and Damned if you DON"T!!

“Bet that if Wal-Mart were to raise wages to $18.00 an hour, we would hear, “Wal-Mart raises wages, to make COSTCO look bad”!! “
RDS

Wal-Mart founder Sam Walton once said, “I pay low wages. I can take advantage of that. We’re going to be successful, but the basis is a very low-wage, low-benefit model of employment.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Wal-Mart#_note-
iswalmartgood

“Is Wal-Mart Good for America?” PBS. November 16, 2004. Retrieved on February 24, 2007.

“Anyone who sees and paints a sky green and fields blue ought to be sterilized.”
Adolf Hitler

“Alice does something nice and there HAS to be a catch to it, right?”
RDS

“Education is a weapon whose effects depend on who holds it in his hands and at whom it is aimed.”
Joseph Stalin

““Patriotism” is rubbish!!”
RDS

“Loyalty to the country always. Loyalty to the government when it deserves it.”
Mark Twain

I don’t have the phone number for Pat Tillman’s family, but I’m sure in your twisted hick mentality you would think them fools and unpatriotic for their renouncing of the Bush propaganda culture.

SDV,

““Loyalty to the country always. Loyalty to the government when it deserves it.” ~ Mark Twain

I’m confused now, that you used this quote!!  “Loyalty to the government”, isn’t it the basis for our country, that the “government” is, of the PEOPLE, by the PEOPLE, and for the PEOPLE?  Therefore, you should ALWAYS give the government LOYALTY, whether you agree or not, after all, THE PEOPLE elected them and when the next election comes, if you don’t like them, VOTE them out of office!!  But to be anti the present government, and Disloyal to that government, is to become the enemy of the government and as the terrorists are the enemy of the government, then “The enemy (terrorists) of your enemy (the U.S. government), becomes your friend”, right? 

If you don’t like the present government, change it, but DON’T be DISLOYAL to it, that only HELPS the enemy to succeed, because it puts YOU on THEIR side!!

RDS has proved himself insane.

I have to laugh at the ignorant folks who think oil is not a valid reason to go to war. Lack of oil caused the Japanese to attack us at Pearl Harbor in 1941. Lack of oil caused Hitler to attack the Soviet Union in 1940. Lack of oil has caused many micro wars around the world. I don’t believe for a minute that the Iraq war has anything to do with oil. All of the oil field contracts went to Russian and French companies. All that aside, yes, oil is a valid reason to go to war. How many Americans, given a choice, would choose option A (limited gas supplies, $10 per gallon) over option B (bombs bombs bombs)? Shouldn’t we fight to protect our economy, which is where our government gets the tax dollars to fund a half-trillion dollar defense budget? Personally, I think you could cut 30% off the defense budget tomorrow and not lose any effectiveness. That said, we have to have oil and we have to protect our economy. Most wars have to do with economics (some with religion). Should we allow others to control us or do we take control of our own destiny?

I leave you with one question: Would you enjoy paying $10 per gallon for gas if it meant no war or conflict? Let’s hear the responses.

“All that aside, yes, oil is a valid reason to go to war.” [Nick]

I wonder then if the oil executives will send their sons and daughters to war and fight for the cause?
Just wondering?

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse

R E M E M B E R
J A C K S O N V I L L E
T E X A S
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse

RDS has proved himself insane.

Come on, W.H. in NV, don’t sugar-coat it! Tell it like it is!

:o)

W.H.,

“RDS has proved himself insane.”

So, I’m insane because I support democracy!!  I guess you disagree with being loyal to the country that gives you the freedom to disagree, right?  What part of my comments, is it, that brings you to the conclusion that I’m INSANE, specify?  If you truely don’t like America, enough so that you would be disloyal to the government elected by the people, why don’t you go somewhere that is more to your liking and will better serve your beliefs?  It is easy to sit back and accept the benefits of this country when things are going ‘good’, but, it is a little harder to stand by that country when things get tougher!!  I may disagree with the views of people like Screwedby and Ken V., but at least they have the backbone to stand up for what they believe in and are working for the changes they think need to be made!!  Like I said, if you don’t like this country and aren’t willing to be Loyal to it, no matter what, then go somewhere more to your liking!!  It has been the people who remained Loyal to this country that got us through WW1, the depression, WW2, and the Korean War, that allow you to be Free today!!  The people back then, didn’t run for cover and whine about it, they stepped up to the plate and backed the country and the govenment!!

I’m sorry that you think my being proud to be an American citizen makes me INSANE, but, I think that’s YOUR problem, not mine!!

“Ask not what your country can do for YOU, Ask what YOU can do for your country!!” ~ John F. Kennedy

“Ask not what your country can do for YOU, Ask what YOU can do for your country!!” ~ John F. Kennedy

RDS in

I would suggest that supporting companies that keep jobs in your country would be what you could do for your country.

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J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse

R E M E M B E R
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T E X A S
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RDS, you got lost on jingoism a long time ago. Your views while usually “insane” have the merit of helping America diagnose the ‘love of money’ quislings that would shed their neighbors’ children’s blood for their own corporate psychopathy. For you it is really “Of the Corporation, By the Corporation, For the Corporation...” and shovel the cost in blood and money onto the suckers. Your attitude represents the most irresponsible kind of all- Yours RDS is not a loyalty to America, it is a loyalty to WalMart and anything they are selling, including America’s middle class to China and the rest of the country down the river.

“America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.”
Abraham Lincoln

Alex,

You said - “I would suggest that supporting companies that keep jobs in your country would be what you could do for your country.”

Since you seem to know so much about this stuff (as evident by your continued criticism of Wal-Mart), do you know of any such companies?

Thanks,

Bill

Since you seem to know so much about this stuff (as evident by your continued criticism of Wal-Mart), do you know of any such companies?

Are you pro Wal-Mart bloggers so wet behind the ears that you don’t know what a search engine is?

Made in USA

US stuff

Still Made in the USA

US Made Toys

For Lightning Bill:

Google or Dogpile

“Since you seem to know so much about this stuff (as evident by your continued criticism of Wal-Mart), do you know of any such companies?”

Thanks,

Bill

Sorry to make you feel so uncomfortable Bill, but I think that RDS or Bob as we all know him by, has presented us with a great principle:

“Ask not what your country can do for YOU, Ask what YOU can do for your country!!” ~ John F. Kennedy

RDS in

I appreciate that Bob values “ being loyal to the country”.
When you support your Walmart and it’s to hell with America and American industry attitude, then it is possibly time to set your focus back to the fundamentals which made your country great. Good work Bob!

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse

R E M E M B E R
J A C K S O N V I L L E
T E X A S
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse

Ken V,

It may pain you to think that I actually know the answer to my own question—I was just posing a question to Alex, the “armchair American”.

Bill

Ken,

I forgot to say “thanks” for the links, which underscores something (that relates to both Wal-Mart and current events) - the “US Made Toys”.

Aside from the handful of exceptions on that website, has anyone ever taken note that none of the “must have” toys are manufactured in this country?

This shouldn’t be surprising, as this has been going-on long before “Made in China” became the maufacturing norm (anyone out there remember “Made in Hong Kong” in the 60’s and 70’s?).

While Wal-Mart may be the biggest seller of toys, all of the “toy power” in this country is concentrated on two multinational companies, Mattel and Hasbro (who both operate under many different name brands).

Don’t believe me?  Check the fine print on the box next time you buy a toy…

Bill