It’s Not Easy Being Green: The Truth About Wal-Mart’s Environmental Makeover

Interesting gray paper.

I think it was intended to be a white paper, but I left it on the windowsill.........

Wow - looks like a slow day at Wal-Mart Watch.

Or, could everyone be in a huddle behind closed doors trying to figure-out how to spin today’s Toys “R” Us recall as being “all Wal-Mart’s fault”?

I’ll stay tuned…

Bill

“Wal-Mart hopes to cut CO2 emissions by 2013 via making its existing stores 20 percent more efficient.  New stores built in 2007 alone, however, will consume enough electricity to add approximately 1 million metric tons of CO2 to the atmosphere.”

Using this logic, almost any attempt to “go green’ would be a failure!!  Take the automobile, for instance, you can cut pollution, using ethonal, but with more cars added to the highways every year, how much CO2 will really be eliminated!!  As long as the population continues to grow each year, more pollutants are added to the environment, just from the added volume of people!!

The real ‘go green’ solution, REDUCE THE POPULATION and go back to the stone age!!

yeah these people who made them toys are the people to blame not the store i do not like wal mart but they just bring in the junk and sell it and then keep the money and then take the money to the BANK why dont these people just admit that the toys are chinas fault oh wait wal mart is in china

Whatever Wal-Mart does, it continually announces.
A person can be a complete idiot, or a guru, but as long as he keep his mouth shut, no-one knows.

Wal-Mart just need keep the pie-holes of those idiots at Bentonville shut.
Ooops, sorry Lee, I forgot you WERE Wal-Mart, sorry.

Wal-Mart has the strategic mind of a piss-ant looking for enough gas to drive his motorcycle around a dime.

Shut up already!

Why are you so ignorant to keep plowing ahead, trying to convince the world you are white and sliced bread?

Dufusses, nincompoops. Shut up!

If you plan on doing something great, then just do it for kripes sake!
Let us all know how well it turns out, later AFTER YOU ACCOMPLISH IT.

You are such stupid hillbillies, and I am so sorry for you. You know not the difference between PR and REALITY. Your ass is in the fire and you continually want to run your mouth?

Keep your mouths shut. ( duh, in case you did not know, that keeps critics at bay, DUH)

Mario thinks his Walmart Canada is on the cutting edge when it comes to being ‘green’ yet it is so far behind that they are a joke. From the Montreal Gazette:

Immigrant son has sold his way to the top of Canadian retailing
Returns to Montreal to tackle new marketing challenge

ALLISON LAMPERT
The Gazette

Thursday, August 30, 2007

CREDIT: ALLEN MCINNIS, THE GAZETTE
Wal-Mart Canada CEO Mario Pilozzi told a group of suppliers and news media yesterday that the environment is “the issue of our times” and announced new goals for the retailer.

The chief executive of Wal-Mart Canada Corp. got started in retailing as a 9-year-old, hawking 7-cent bottles of 7-UP to concert-goers at Mount Royal Park.

“I’d be walking up and down and I’d say ‘Ice cold drinks’ ... and I would sell (them) and make some money,” CEO Mario Pilozzi, 60, recalled during an interview with The Gazette.

Yesterday, Pilozzi, the child of Italian immigrants, was back in town tackling a new marketing challenge in a province where Wal-Mart has faced plenty of criticism. Addressing a standing-room-only crowd of suppliers and news media at Wal-Mart’s first green fair, Pilozzi proclaimed the environment “the issue of our times.”

He announced new goals for Wal-Mart Canada: a 65-per-cent reduction in waste, plans to slash greenhouse gas emissions by 25 per cent over five years and the sale of organic, or environmentally-friendly, products.

“I think this is the beginning,” he said. “We weren’t even talking to suppliers three years ago, or four years ago, about sustainable projects on our shelves.

“As a retailer, my job is certainly to try to anticipate the wants and needs of our customers. And I think this is an issue that customers are going to want.’’

Yet many of the Quebec shoppers Pilozzi would like to attract are skeptical about Wal-Mart.

In recent years, Wal-Mart has faced critical press and calls for a boycott by former Parti Québécois leader Bernard Landry over its 2005 decision to close a unionized store in Jonquière.

And some critics question the significance of a Wal-Mart program that advocates buying goods from Quebec companies.

Only about a third of the $1.75 billion of products purchased annually from 1,669 Quebec suppliers are manufactured locally, the company acknowledged.

Pilozzi insists Wal-Mart is committed to its “Purchased in Quebec program” - the only one of its kind in Canada - as a way of supporting Quebec companies. And he said Wal-Mart believes strongly enough in organic products that he’s willing to accept less profit to cover a supplier’s higher production costs.

“We as a company are certainly prepared to sacrifice on margin. We have some investments to make, and our investment is going to be part of that margin.”

Since the project began two years ago, Wal-Mart has added 319 new companies, generating sales of $230 million, the company announced yesterday. Most of the products bought from these new suppliers are made in Quebec, he said.

“What we’re trying to accomplish is to have new products ... that people in Quebec can relate to. If you’re importing items, you’re not going to succeed.”

Wal-Mart directly imports about 17 per cent of its merchandise from China. The rest is sourced from Canadian suppliers, but Pilozzi said the company isn’t capable of tracking where all of these goods are manufactured.

In the U.S., 70 per cent of items sold at Wal-Mart - outside the grocery section - are either made in China or have significant content from China, said Chicago-based journalist and author Ted Fishman in an email, citing 2004 figures.

Another challenge for Wal-Mart in Canada is dealing with union drives by workers - or “associates,” as the company calls them. That issue has been especially explosive in Quebec.

Analysts say Wal-Mart has benefitted from having a more flexible workforce when competing in Canada against such unionized food rivals as Loblaws Cos. Ltd.

Accreditation is being sought by Wal-Mart garage workers in Hull and Gatineau and by workers at two locations each in B.C. and Saskatchewan, said Louis Bolduc, of the United Food and Commercial Workers.

And a Quebec arbitrator is now hearing arguments over the first collective agreement for workers at Wal-Mart’s store and auto garage in Ste. Hyacinthe.

Pilozzi wouldn’t comment on the Ste. Hyacinthe store.

Instead, he emphasized the company’s strong relationship with its associates.

“As the head coach of Wal-Mart Canada, our associates are our most important resource.”

alampert@thegazette.canwest.com

Nice lie to end the article with Mario.
People see through the Walmart B**l S**T

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse

R E M E M B E R
J A C K S O N V I L L E
T E X A S
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse

REDUCE THE POPULATION and go back to the stone age!!

Allow me to tweak that for you RDS:

Reduce the population OR go back to the Stone Age.

Wal-Mart has the strategic mind of a piss-ant...

In the five or so years I’ve been watching Wal-Mart I’ve yet to see anything come out of Bentonville that could be considered smart, let alone brilliant. And not just the PR.

This current bunch is running on Sam’s momentum but they’ve corrupted his formula making it unsustainable.

“There are a lot of issues here, but what they add up to is the end of the age of Wal-Mart,” contends Richard Hastings, a senior analyst for the retail rating agency Bernard Sands. “The glory days are over.”

I read that Wal-Mart accounts for about 20% of Proctor & Gamble’s $75 billion in annual sales. Tide Detergent, Iams Pet Food, Head & Shoulders shampoo, Old Spice body wash, Cover Girl makeup, Charmin TP, Folgers and a million other brands are most likley NOT made in China. Let’s assume that 20% are and P&G;now sells $12 billion in US made goods to Wal-Mart each year. Incidentally, P&G;had a net profit margin of 13.3% in its most recent fiscal year. Wal-Mart? Less than 4%. Tell me again who is getting increased margins and profits? Wal-Mart’s average vendor margin is between 7%-17%. If anyone is making out from sourcing to China, it is certainly not Wal-Mart, with its very small margins.

Wal-Mart gets 70% of its goods from China? Well, let’s look at this:

Wal-Mart posted sales of $345 billion in 2006. Of this, $77 billion, or 22.3%, came from the International Division, so sourcing from China has no effect on US businesses. This leaves $268 billion in sales. Of this remainder, about 22%, or $59 billion, is in groceries. Untold billions more are sold through services and prescriptions. This leaves roughly 55% of all sales that may or may not be purchased from China. Since Wal-Mart buys roughly 20% of its purchases from the Chinese market, this translates into total purchases of about $29 billion, or about 11% of Wal-Mart’s total cost of sales (ie. cost to Wal-Mart for the purchase of goods from vendors).

11% of Wal-Mart’s total purchases come from China? I’m shocked. To read this board (and if you take its statistics seriously) Wal-Mart buys 70% of its goods in China. Cost of sales was roughly $265 billion last year, meaning that, company wide, China purchases would have had to come to $185.5 billion. Does anyone really believe this number? Is Wal-Mart responsible for 24% of the US trade deficit with China?

I would love to see someone try and defend WMW’s shady math.......

Information can always be manipulated to hide one’s personal agenda in the name of the “common good.”

Nick

What do you think of Merrill Lynch putting a sell order on Wal Mart today

Think it will drop to below 30.00?

If the recomendation is sell, then you dump the stock.
This doesn’t surprise anyone considering the way this company has been managed the last few years. It is catching up with them.

Nick and RDS—“Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dumber”

“I would love to see someone try and defend WMW’s shady math.......”

I would love to see the person who’s so boring they’ll defend Nick’s math (someone besides Nick himself, of course)

You know it’s time to scroll, when you see stuff like this in the first paragraph alone: 20%, $75 billion, $12 billion, 13.3%, 4%, and 7%-17%.  “Let’s assume...” that you’re an idiot, Nick!  I bet the ladies flock around you at the company Christmas party every year!

“REDUCE THE POPULATION...” ~RDS

I agree RDS.  It’s a pain seeing people like Nick and yourself needlessly use up the world’s precious oxygen supply!

SDV,

“You know it’s time to scroll, when you see stuff like this”

You mean like people have to do to most of your posts, 60% of them are ‘cut and paste’s’ of your other posts!!  Either that or you pretend to be someone else, as if you think you are really fooling people!!  And, you call us idiots!!

The reason you guys HATE numbers, is they are hard for you to deal with!!  You can’t handle Wal-Mart’s continuing growth and spin it into ‘going down the drain’ at the same time!!  You tend to offer your ideas on how Wal-Mart SHOULD be run, what I ask, is how well is the company you are running doing?  You are nothing more than an “Arm Chair Quarterback”, who is not qualified to play in the “REAL” game of business!!  You can’t stand that the Walton’s are successful and you aren’t, so you constantly use things like ‘stole’, ‘off the backs of employees’ and other nonsense to describe their success!!  You are a ‘loser’ and they are ‘winners’ and you can’t stand that, can you?  BTW: Isn’t that the fry ‘buzzer’ going off?

As for our ‘precious oxygen supply’, most of it comes from trees, take a 25 mile radius from your home and see how many trees there are, compared to a 25 mile radius of mine and you will probably see a lot more trees here, so it is you, that are using some of ours!!  Besides, what is that “SMOG” thing in California, is that ‘precious oxygen’?

Screwedby-Walmart,

If you can’t understand the simple math I’m sure there is some help out there for you so you get some remedial education.  It’s really not that hard..... unless you just don’t like what the numbers tell you because it doesn’t fit your “agenda”

coming from a source of false stats who could believe anything that is put out here. wm lies ,nick lies ,you lie.

Back to the premise of this blog post,

Wal-Mart will off-set it’s own energy reduction by 2013. 

How is that different from saying that the reductions WM is doing now are enough to cover the total energy use of all stores opening from now til 2013? 

Ken V, that’s pretty close to a smart move, neh? 

Also, more importantly, those who take this as further sign of WM being evil and a blight and what not are missing what Bastiat called ‘the unseen’ effects.

WM will open more stores because there will be consumer demand.  If WM doesn’t do it, then someone else will.  Whoever else it is will have lights and freezers to run, so they’ll use energy. 

Purely from an energy standpoint, would you rather have someone else, or WM who will use 20% less than that someone else?

Wal-Mart certainly deserves its props, for taking initiatives to ‘clean’ its act up, as they should considering all the damage they have already done.

Some may see Wal-Mart being a form of ‘Green’ leader.
Others may see it as ‘community service’.

For Scott:

The argument seems good, however it is one based on a lot of assumptions, therefore prone to wide degree of error in predictable outcomes.

Assumption:
Wal-Mart will continue to grow.

Considering recent indications that more and more institutional investors are fed up with the company’s stock performance, and analysts are asking the company to either slow down or stop expansion,
Wal-Mart may soon find the market turning against it.
As the stock takes the hit, so too will capital investment.

Investors will begin to shift their retail segment holdings, to most likely Wal-Mart’s nearest competitor Target.
Even should Wal-Mart seek growth from acquisitions, these will be more likely regional, and will not necessarily be ‘Green-operation’ acquisitions.

Assumption:
Consumer demand will fuel growth of retail operations.

Consumer demand is extremely elastic. One would be very presumptuous to think it infinitely expansive.
Recent market indicators show current demand may in fact be slowing, in the light of such disturbances such as Sub-Prime fallout, increased energy costs, and credit crunches.

As consumer demand waxes and wanes, so does the retail investment segment.

Assumption:
Competitive entries into the marketplace, are not innovative.
This is what is being said if one assumes every future competitor of Wal-Mart, will not use technological innovations of energy reduction.
It is a very common strategy in competition to in fact ’leapfrog’ a competitor, by showing willingness to innovate, and use rising technologies as the competitive backdrop.

It takes no genius of logic to see Scott has offered what in argument is called a ’limited menu’ by asking:

“Purely from an energy standpoint, would you rather have someone else, or WM who will use 20% less than that someone else? “

Chow.

Cazar,

Sorry,

But Assumption 1 is not mine.  It’s Walmart Watch’s. 
“New stores built in 2007 alone, however, will consume enough electricity to add approximately 1 million metric tons of CO2 to the atmosphere.85 At that rate – adding an additional 1 million metric tons of CO2 per year because of new stores – by 2013 Wal-Mart will be offsetting its goal to reduce by 20% its greenhouse-gas footprint at existing stores by adding 28 million metric tons of new emissions through expansion over the same time period.”

Second assumption, “Consumer demand will fuel growth of retail operations. “
Sure, that could be false.  Could have a recession, could switch even more to online, many things could happen.

However, if those things happen, that would also lead to fewer Wal-Marts being built, so again this article is invalid, because total WM emissions would go down, not offset gains.

But if that assumption is true, then I’m still right.  Because,

Assumption 3, “Competitive entries into the marketplace, are not innovative,” has been shown to be true in reality thusfar in regards to this issue. 
I’m pretty sure that if Target or Best Buy set a goal of reducing energy use by 25% or something in all new and existing stores we’d see a headline here saying something to the effect of “Target saves the world !!! Aren’t you glad they aren’t the evil soul-killers that Wal-Mart are?!?!?”

So yes, they could become more innovative in this regard.  They aren’t.  Wal-Mart is.  That’s good.  And much like other innovations ($4 prescriptions) Wal-Mart is taking the lead.  If others follow, it’s probably going to be because they can’t afford to give up the competitive advantage saving 20% on energy would give to WM.

Where’s the Friday Round-up?

Figures......Wal-Mart Watch went on a 4-day weekend leaving us with no new material.....not even a Friday round-up.........

Sure wish I had their job!

I’m sorry, but this (from the report):

In 2002, Wal-Mart had a
staggering 396 stores for sale or
lease, which translated into approximately
32.5 million square
feet of unused retail space.42 By
2004, the retailer, which has its
own realty unit, announced that while many stores had been filled, it still had about 152 vacant properties,
or 13 million square feet, across the country.43 As of the first quarter of 2007, however, Wal-Mart’s
realty unit, Wal-Mart Realty, listed 225 buildings for lease and an additional 33 buildings up for sale.

is just stupid.  It’s in WMs best interest to move that unused building space. 
Sometimes it really seems like this site wants people to believe 1.  WM will do anything at all for profit, unless 2.  it involves not being evil.
They are so wicked and want to cause blight on the areas they leave, so they overlook thousands of dollars in rent per month that they could get.

I’d be interested to see how many stores stay vacant for more than 1 full year.  But all that would show is inefficiency in the WM real estate department, not ill intent.

Since WalMart was the POS of all those sickening toys and sickening dog food and what all ever else needs to be returned, let consumers return that stuff to the WalMart store where they bought all that crap and let WalMart handle the storage of it in their 400 plus empty store buildings around the country until WalMart can settle up their end with the manufacturers. Al Norman keeps track of the hundreds and hundreds of empty WalMart stores all over the USA and has done so for many years now. Maybe WalMart could use all those new environmental love trucks to go around and pick-up the defective products from the consumers at their homes instead of subjecting people to another terrible and suffering experience by having to go back to WalMart again.

But all that would show is inefficiency in the WM real estate department, not ill intent.

I kid around posting the link to the Sam Walton is the anti Christ site but I’m not interested in “ill intent"*. I’m perfectly satisfied discussing Wal-Mart’s “inefficiency”, stupidy and arrogance.

*Unless, of course, you consider unabashed greed ill intent?

There is more to life than “cheap underwear“. ~ The Peninsula Neighborhood Association

Scott:

I think Target has already announced some time ago it plans to reduce energy consumption in its stores by 20-22%.

As far as market ‘Innovator’, in terms of energy consumption, that is not Wal-Mart’s horn to toot.

I believe that award goes to the Food Lion company, who began near a decade ago pursuing energy reductions in its chain, becoming the first retail chain to be named EPA “Partner of the Year” and the only one to continue winning recognition for five consecutive years, with the EPA ENERGY STAR Sustained Excellence Awards.

Cazar,

Thanks, I just did a little research on both.  Looks like Food Lion is doing some great things.  Target too.  Good for both of them.

So again, let’s tie this idea back to the purpose of the original ridiculous blog post.

If Food Lion or Target or Wal-Mart of anyone sets goals of reducing energy use by 20%, and can hit them, they are doing a good thing.  We could all point out that Food Lion has almost doubled sales in 10 years, so they now have a larger amount of total energy use.  What’s the point? 

All I have to say is:
Good job Wal-Mart, keep it up!

Ken V.

Except in this case they are really not being inefficient:

“In 2002, Wal-Mart had a
staggering 396 stores for sale or
lease, which translated into approximately
32.5 million square
feet of unused retail space.42 By
2004, the retailer, which has its
own realty unit, announced that while many stores had been filled, it still had about 152 vacant properties”

They dropped from 396 to 152 vacant properties in two years.  Meaning that they sold/leased at least 244 of them.  Of course, they did a lot more than that, since they also did quite a few relocations during that time. 

Again, the only way this statistic has any meaning (except to superficially make WM look bad) is if they could show how many WMs remain vacant for more than 1 year.  Based on the above change from 2002 to 2004, I bet that number is pretty low.

But then I guess we’re back to them being greedy.

“Assumption 3, “Competitive entries into the marketplace, are not innovative,” has been shown to be true in reality thusfar in regards to this issue.

So yes, they could become more innovative in this regard. They aren’t. Wal-Mart is.”

This is the point Sir.
You make claims, unsubstantiated by fact.

The FACT is Wal-Mart despite its massive powers of marketing and PR are NOT INNOVATORS, they are FOLLOWERS, COPYCATS, behind the likes of Food Lion and its innovative initiatives.

Or did I somehow misunderstand your post, when you intimated that competitive entries into the marketplace, have not been in fact as ‘innovative’ as Wal-Mart?

Let me see if I’m following you, Scott.

But all that would show is inefficiency in the WM real estate department, not ill intent.

My choices were a. inefficiency, or b. ill intent. I picked a. inefficiency and now you tell me…

Except in this case they are really not being inefficient:

So you’re saying there was ill intent?

Ken V,

What I said is:
“Sometimes it really seems like this site wants people to believe 1.  WM will do anything at all for profit, unless 2.  it involves not being evil. “

So maybe someone with a very limited mindset would think that their only choices when looking at a WM action or decision is inefficiency or ill intent.

My point is that neither applies here.  They aren’t being inefficient, and there is no ill intent.  They are just trying to sell or lease old property, which is a perfectly rational thing for any person or business to do.  If it wasn’t Wal-Mart doing it, it would not draw comment from anyone.

Gotta draw you back to the original WMW report.  They seem to try to pin everything on ill intent.  I could very easily see them write some thing like:  “Great Scott!  Wal-Mart has 1.21 Giga-Acres of unused land! “

It’s stupid, and intellectually dishonest.  And if they want to be taken seriously, they should try to be honest critics of WM, and not childishly try to spin everything WM does as something horrible.

Cazar,

I’m going to do something I rarely see on this site:

You’re right.  I was wrong.  I hadn’t heard about the initiatives by Food Lion or Target.  I’m a pretty avid reader of news, and I hadn’t seen these anywhere (including anecdotes in green articles about WM) so I made an incorrect assumption.

I think what Food Lion is doing is pretty awesome.  I really don’t have a lot of time to do research on this topic, so if anyone has any links on this or the green movement among large retailers as a whole, I’d be interested. 

Does anyone here disagree that it would be pretty awesome for Wal-Mart to follow that lead, and to maybe even do better in some areas?

This still doesn’t invalidate what WM is trying to accomplish.  The purpose of the original blog story was a shot at WM, and trys to diminish what they are trying to do. 

It’s stupid and intellectually dishonest.  It also tells me that they only want to hurt WM at any costs, and not to be constructive critics.  I honestly think that if WM cured cancer, you’d immediately see a story here like “Wal-Mart causes mass layoffs in oncology departments worldwide!!!”

Cazar, you yourself are one of the only critics on this blog who can see both sides, and will occasionally acknowledge that WM can do some things right.  That makes you an effective critic, and one whom I actually enjoy reading, unlike that odd Canadian fellow.

Stories like this are wrong for two reasons:  They are deceptive, and they hurt the cause of WMW.

Scott,

“They dropped from 396 to 152 vacant properties in two years.  Meaning that they sold/leased at least 244 of them....But then I guess we’re back to them being greedy.”

Gee, WMW could spin these figures, to say that, by selling or leasing these stores, Wal-Mart is taking an empty store and causing it to be active again and therefore using energy and creating a carbon footprint on the enviroinment again!!  Greedy Wal-Mart!!  Or, Wal-Mart could level these buildings, but then again, that would just be adding to the local landfill, so what is the answer, maybe they could call in David Copperfield and have him make them disappear into thin air?

...their only choices when looking at a WM action or decision is inefficiency or ill intent.

You’re the one that offered those choices, doofus! I want to talk about Bentonville’s lack of business acumen and you introduce “ill intent”. Is that a legal term? Or are you merely trying to shift the focus from actions to intentions?

quality fade: The deliberate and secret habit of widening profit margins through a reduction in the quality of materials.

TOO BAD!

<i>”...maybe they could call in David Copperfield and have him make them disappear into thin air?"</b>

Too bad we can’t call David Copperfield and have him make you disappear into thin air, RDS!

Screwedby,

Here’s the problem:

First, you guys claim that Wal-Mart stores are poorly lit, cluttered aisles, and a ‘poor’ shopping experience!!  Wal-Mart updates it’s stores, through remodeling or building better lit, more room in the aisles, and giving a ‘better’ shopping experience!!  Then, we hear from your side, that the stores are still not ‘good’ enough, they are not upscale enough, relying on “low prices” and not quality!!  Wal-Mart then tries to upscale, and they get slammed by your side, that they need to stay in their own area and not try to be something they are not!!  And, you see one chain raise wages, to a higher point than all the others, so right away you start claiming that because Wal-Mart doesn’t do what Costco does, it must be ‘wrong’ and is stealing from people, exploiting people and EVIL!!  But, even though ALL of the other ‘big box’ retailers, save one (Costco), are basically in the same range of wages and benefits, somehow, because Wal-Mart is the largest, they are inherently BAD and the others are A-Okay!!  What if tomorrow, I was to open a retail store chain, and paid my workers $25.00 an hour (starting pay $18.00 an hour), would that make Costco, evil and an exploiter, stealing money from their employees, because they didn’t pay the same or more than my chain?  And, the reason I could pay that much, is because I had a 30% markup and located my stores in wealthy areas like Beverly Hills!!  Are we comparing apples with apples in this senerio?  Costco, is a Warehouse Club, Wal-Mart is NOT, Sam’s Club is a warehouse club, but not as UPSCALE as Costco, and caters to a lower income group, than Costco does!!  So, what this all boils down to, is that somehow your side thinks that, you should be the ones to decide what is right and what is wrong, and nobody’s voice counts, unless it is parroting YOUR VIEW!!

“...nobody’s voice counts, unless it is parroting YOUR VIEW!!”

As far as this website and Wal-Mart is concerned, that’s absolutely correct!  Care for a cracker, RDS?

Scott.

It certainly takes a degree of character and integrity to admit one may be wrong.
I’ll give you props for that.

The inherent ‘trap’ which occurs in blogs such as this (and near all blogs), is that one has a tendency (myself included) to turn debate into a chess game.

I love chess.
I thoroughly enjoy the match of wit and strategy.
But a key to success in chess, is to not let one’s ego interfere with one’s logic.
Easier said than done.

In debate, like chess, one often finds the weaker controvertist allowing ego to rule over logic.
Which is why in blogs (such as this), we often see much polarization, and little progress.
(sort of like government no?)
As egos swell, the debate becomes not one of issue, but one of ‘gamesmanship’, ‘one upmanship’ and leg pissing contests.

That is not to say these elements among us as men, competition, pride, ego, are not valuable components to debate.
One may suggest they are in fact real ‘lubricants’, to debate.

But it is logic and empirical fact, these elementals, which remain the foundation of debate, and harbingers of progress.

It is by reason of fact did I call you, on your statements.
Not because I dislike you.
Nor do I inherently hate Wal-Mart.

What I do have is an exorbitant distaste for is ‘spin’ and its distortion of reality.

Cazar,

I think it’s a greater appreciation for truth than one’s own opinion. 

The other day, my wife asked my why I waste my time on this site, since everyone is set in their opinion and won’t change. 

I think it’s the same reason you said.  I like the debate and discussion.  It hones my wits.

As far as spin goes, this is one of my favorite youtube videos:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7517639208130383249&q=john+stewart+crossfire&total=51&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

“distortion of reality”

‘lubricants’

Honestly ociffer, I’m not under the alcofluence of incohol as some theople pink, but the drinker I stand here the longer I get.  I’ve only had ti martwonis, and I’ve got all day sober to Sunday up in.  So siss on you pister! You ain’t so muck’in fuch.  What in the world makes you think you’re so smuck’in fart?

“Cazar, you yourself are one of the only critics on this blog who can see both sides, and will occasionally acknowledge that WM can do some things right.  That makes you an effective critic, and one whom I actually enjoy reading, unlike that odd Canadian fellow.” [Scott]

Sorry if you don’t like it Scott, but I don’t think your Walmart is a company that deserves much credit. 

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse

R E M E M B E R
J A C K S O N V I L L E
T E X A S
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse

...who can see both sides...

I love the moral superiority implied in that statement. It almost sounds like one of Mary’s ‘rules’. Wal-Mart spends millions presenting their “side”, why look for it here? Turn on your TV or go to walmartfacts.com if you want their side.

People read/comment on this blog for a variety of reasons, some to play rhetorical chess while other wish to hone their wits. You can usually spot them by the sheer length of their posts. (Another ‘tell’ is the use of terms like ‘elitist’ and ‘ego’.)

The other day, my wife asked my why I waste my time on this site, since everyone is set in their opinion and won’t change.

If you’re here to change an active poster’s opinion, your wife’s right, you’re wasting your time. Allow me to repost my reason for being here:

I’m not trying to convince anyone on this blog about anything. I may address a comment to you, but I don’t write to you. I write to the invisible reader.

The invisible reader came here to find out what’s going on with Wal-Mart. Perhaps something has happened to give them a glimpse of the Beast under the smiley face, or perhaps they just heard something about Wal-Mart somewhere else and want to check it out. The invisible reader is on the fence and I write to encourage them to jump off on the anti side.

Wal-Mart is the exemplar of a form of corporate colonialism, which is to say, organizations from one place going into distant places and strip-mining them culturally and economically. ~ James Howard Kunstler

“I write to the invisible reader”

That’s a big AMEN, Ken V.

It’s not like these “invisible readers” can’t find most of what Nick and RDS say, on Walmartfacts.com

Between people such as you and I, or people like Nick and RDS, I wonder who has more of a “Sisyphean task.” I believe that Nick and RDS, as well as their little band of merry disciples like Scott, Mary and Bill, actually think they are “influencing” the “invisible readers” and getting them to “see the light”.  Afterall, Wal-Mart is nothing more than this poor, falsely maligned company, that’s being unjustly picked on by unions and “liberal commies” like myself.  Wal-Mart is fighting for the “little people,” and like them, it is just trying to make an honest buck.  Right guys?

You’re absolutely right, Ken!  The fact that a new reader might stop by this website, means they already have some serious reservations or doubts about the “Beast of Bentonville.”

Ken V,

“I’m not trying to convince anyone on this blog about anything. I may address a comment to you, but I don’t write to you. I write to the invisible reader.”

And, do you really believe that we are trying to change YOUR minds?  Think about it, if an invisible reader comes to this site and hears ONLY the anti-side of an argument and all the ‘spin’ promoted here, what will they walk away with, a totally one sided view!!  In that respect, your side can be viewed as a CULT!!  We are here trying to present BALANCE, and facts, that your side doesn’t want them to know, because of your bias, so that those invisible readers can make up their OWN minds, based on seeing both sides of an argument!!  If these people had already made up their minds, why would they bother coming here in the first place, just to listen to others affirm their view?  No, even you claim these people are on the fence!!  Why then are you ONLY willing to let them see ONE side?  We are here to expose the “Mr. Hyde” side of your “Dr. Jekyll”!!

Even people like yourself and Screwedby, have commented on how some articles here are either irrelevent or “spun’ and even you have said that it must have been a ‘slow news day’!!  I guess, that if WMW can’t dig something up, WMW must make something up to fill the page!!

You have to remember, the difference between what you are saying and what we are saying!!  You are saying, ‘If you don’t like the rules, make them change them’ and we are saying, ‘If you think that the game is unfair, don’t play there’!!  Just because YOU think something is wrong, doesn’t mean EVERYONE feels that way!!  Somehow, you want to ignore the fact, that millions of people like Wal-Mart enough to keep shopping there and over a million people like Wal-Mart enough to apply for a job there and go to work there!!

“We are here trying to present BALANCE, and facts...”

Sounds like more of that “moral superiority” to me, Ken.  What do you think?

Ken V said:
“I love the moral superiority implied in that statement.”

One thing is true, it is logically superior to consider all sides of a case before making a rational judgement. 

“It almost sounds like one of Mary’s ‘rules’. “

I only occasionally hit this site, but if one of Mary’s ‘rules’ are rules of debate and logic, then good for her.  Anyone who doesn’t follow formal rules of logic as a basis for your discussion isn’t really even playing the game.

“Wal-Mart spends millions presenting their “side”, why look for it here? Turn on your TV or go to walmartfacts.com if you want their side. “

I guess my main point is that nobody should have a ‘side’ other than the truth.  When Wal-Mart is on the wrong side, they should be held accountable.  When WMW is on the wrong side, they should be held accountable. 

Even more fundamentally for me, God=truth.  If you are purposefully choosing a side other than truth, you choose against God.  If you make a mistake and end up on the wrong side, try to thoughtfully examine the facts and draw a rational conclusion.  People of good will can disagree about matters of fact or logic.  That doesn’t mean anyone should demonize the wrong person.

If that sounds ‘morally superior’, then I’m not sorry.  It’s a whole other debate on what moral/ethical code to follow.  Truth should be the cornerstone of that code, and it should not be appologized for.

God=truth

My only answer to that, Scott, is to quote from AOL’s walmopboy:

“so far from God and so close to Wal-Mart”

Intellectual dishonesty, indeed.

Where Does One Begin to Answer You, Scott?

WOW! You played the “ultimate trump card.” You’ve got a hotline to “God,” and therefore “THE TRUTH.” I guess it’s futile for us mere mortals to argue or “debate” with you! Perhaps you have this website confused with “The 700 Club”.

Do you realize you’re separated by just a few degrees from those bearded Middle Easterners who exclaim that “Allah is the Greatest” just before they fly a plane into a building?  “Kill the infidels!” (Have you seen Nick’s list who he’d like to kill?) Do you have any concept how people like you make America seem to others around the world who may not share your philosophy?

So let me get this straight.  If we disagree with you, then we are essentially “choosing against God.” Is that it?

I think you may have taken this “moral superiority” thing to a whole new level.

I will give a nod to your statement: “When Wal-Mart is on the wrong side, they should be held accountable.” You pretty well described my raison d’être when it comes to Wal-Mart.

The trouble with people like Nick, RDS and yourself is that you DO IN FACT believe you’ve got a moral leg up on the rest of us.  This website isn’t big enough for one of your egos, let alone all three!  You’re pompous and arrogant in believing you’ll change someone’s opinion on this website.  In the case of RDS, he makes claims to having a “balanced and unbiased” view.  He’s somehow standing outside the fire and “logically observing.” He sees it as his MISSION to save those “poor lost souls” who come to this website looking for information about Wal-Mart. 

As SDV pointed out, RDS’ and Nick’s often pathological and fanatical defense of Wal-Mart, could almost be clinically diagnosed. People like Nick and RDS think they have a lock on the world of “logic,” but when I start talking about “rules of derivation,” “premises,” and “conclusions,” Nick no longer is interested in “logic.” And let’s face it, if we can’t agree on the premises, then there’s no point in even discussing any of the “conclusions” that might be drawn.  We can only agree to disagree, on the grounds that we have incompatible world views.

Nick and RDS either don’t trust others to think for themselves, or they think others are too stupid to come to the “right” conclusion about Wal-Mart, without their help. They preach in their pulpits from their moral high ground, “explaining it all,” leaving an unctuous slick of superiority behind them.

When you get the time, look up the word hu·bris

Screwed,
“So let me get this straight.  If we disagree with you, then we are essentially “choosing against God.” Is that it? “

No,

You’re misreading what I wrote.  Intentionally, not sure.  I never said I was always right.  Just that we should all _try_ to find truth. 

In fact, it’s been on this thread that I’ve already admitted that I was wrong.  I also wrote that those who are actually trying to find the truth can disagree with each other, and that we should not demonize those we disagree with.

It’s when someone intentionally tries to spin everything that I find wrong.

As far as someone’s viewpoint changing, mine did.  Based on my fairly frequent reading of news, I thought WM was leading on going green.  Cazar showed me that Food Lion is doing great things, and WM is following.  That’s good, and I learned. 

As far as me being seperated by a few degrees from terrorists, let me just say this:  I personally believe in the Chrisitan God.  However, I didn’t always.  I think that the bible represents truth. 

However, even if someone disagrees, I’d hope that they examine their foundational philosophy and make an honest attempt to live by it.  You, I, and everyone should make an honest attempt to have a sound philosphical/religious base.

As well, my personal faith most closely aligns with the Mennonite faith, so not only would I not fly planes into your building, I think we should seek to forgive those who did.  I also try not to take anything said here personally, and I hope we can all actually find some sort of points of agreement, rather than just snipe at each other.

Screwedby,

“Nick and RDS either don’t trust others to think for themselves, or they think others are too stupid to come to the “right” conclusion about Wal-Mart, without their help. They preach in their pulpits from their moral high ground, “explaining it all,” leaving an unctuous slick of superiority behind them.”

Right, let’s look at this for a minute, shall we!!

Who on this site, has been involved with an Anti Wal-Mart movie and who admits he is part of an Anti Wal-Mart group?  To make a movie, is to convey to others, that they don’t know what is going on, so we are going to inform you!!  Same thing with the groups!!  Neither Nick, nor myself have been involved in a vehicle designed to sway people towards an agenda, both you and Ken V., freely admit to doing this and you have the nerve to say that we are preaching from the pulpit, what pulpit?  Your movie and Ken’s group are ‘pulpits’!!

I never have claimed superiority, I usually just offer rebuttal to statements that I feel have either been ‘spun’ or are based on facts that are not facts at all!!  Take this for example, you have said on at least two occasions, that your girlfriend dragged you ‘kicking and screaming’ into a Wal-Mart store and even mentioned, I think, having to hold your nose!!  Do you really expect people to believe, that Wal-Mart stores are SO terrible, that a person would be afraid to enter one?  Then, we hear ‘wallstreet’ say, that he was in a Wal-Mart for 5 minutes and somehow was able to make a reliable evaluation of the store to the point he claims he will NEVER shop there again!!  And Ken V., states he HATES Wal-Mart, yet refuses to tell why!!  How can an “invisible reader” take any of these views seriously, when anybody can go into a Wal-Mart store and not find it so repulsive, that they can’t stand to remain there more than 5 minutes, and have to be dragged in, holding one’s nose?  Then, there are the comments about shoppers at Wal-Mart, being ‘hill billies’, or too stupid to realize how ‘bad’ it really is, who is it there, that is saying that they “either don’t trust others to think for themselves, or they think others are too stupid to come to the “right” conclusion about Wal-Mart, without their help.”?

I think it is YOU that is exhibiting “moral superiority”, not us!!  After all, you have made it your MISSION to ‘Spread the Word’, we are only posting on an existing site!!

Scott allow the “great” Sage to say that I agree with your
post.  I also believe in the Christan God and my Saviour
the Lord Jesus Christ.

We can disagree but leave the name calling out. 

I’m sorry I shouldn’t have written the “great” as I am sure
that I am not but it sounds good (to me)

All have a great Blessed Day!  In one hundred years or less none of this will be remembered and no one will care.

WalMart is a type of anti-Christ business model based on a ‘love of money’ psychopathy. Exploitation of people and communities, tax dodges, stealing from labor and the additional thefts of laying/externalizing costs back upon the taxpayers are some of the more observable practices of the WalMart organization. It is appropriate to designate WalMart as a crime syndicate and petition God in the name of Jesus Christ for WalMart’s total destruction.

“For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.”
1 Timothy 6:10

“The righteous considereth the cause of the poor: but the wicked regardeth not to know it.”
Proverbs 29:7

Hang on a second. let’s not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Scott may well become a credible voice for the pro Wal-Mart side. He doesn’t need to be run off, just have his wet-behind-the ears pinned back.

...but if one of Mary’s ‘rules’ are rules of debate...

If you’ve come here expecting to operate under the protection of formal debate rules, Scott, you’re in for a big disappointment. Here, your lengthy, well thought-out post is just as likely to be met with the following response:

Wal-Mart sucks!

As for rules, there is only one here.

WalmartWatch.com reserves the right, in its sole discretion, to remove or refuse to post blog comments.

Wanna play? If not, try here.

...everyone is set in their opinion and won’t change.

Did your wife mean to include you in “everyone”, Scott?

Ken,

“Wal-Mart sucks!”

Gee, grasping for straws, huh?

Bill

Then, we hear ‘wallstreet’ say, that he was in a Wal-Mart for 5 minutes and somehow was able to make a reliable evaluation of the store to the point he claims he will NEVER shop there again!! 

Why would this not be self explanatory?

I will tell you first entering on left produce looks to be a few weeks out fruit flies all over meat is gassed to were it is blown up clothes look like after one washing would fall apart lines out the Stores

A lot of products on the self but stuff I would not take home.

Do you think this makes me look Superior no it is just not my choice of shopping until Wal-Mart takes over the world I have other choices.

This is the only blog that I have seen were you make a statement it is then turned in to you hate big business you do not know what you are talking about, and I hate to admit it but some times it makes you that way

Why can’t people just say they do not like it period. I also tried those Dollar Store I did not like them does that make me not to want to save money and I am dumb.

wallstreet,

“I will tell you first entering on left produce looks to be a few weeks out fruit flies all over meat is gassed to were it is blown up clothes look like after one washing would fall apart lines out the Stores”

I don’t know which Wal-Mart you went into, but I have been in Wal-Marts all over the country, many times, and have NEVER seen, what you claim!!  And you say you have been to 1 store for 5 minutes, in the modern supercenter, you could not have walked fast enough to closely inspect produce, meat and clothing, in 5 minutes!! 

Now, it has been claimed here before, that products bought from Wal-Mart, fall apart or break down within a day or two after purchase, this is totally rediculous, if it were true (A FACT), people would not keep coming back, over and over again and continue to shop there week after week, it’s PURE B.S.!!

“Why can’t people just say they do not like it period”

Then, just say that Wal-Mart is not up to YOUR standards and that is why you don’t shop there, don’t add things that aren’t true!!  If you claimed that you looked at, say, a T.V. and said it looked like junk, that would be a lie, Wal-Mart’s T.V.’s look the same as everyone elses!!  Why didn’t you just be honest and say that you don’t like any ‘low price’ stores, period, in the first place!!

Again, some one makes an observation and because it is not what you think it should be this is totally ridiculous, your quote why is it ridiculous it is my observation not yours I think it is junk you do not why is your observation better than mine.

Tell me why I would LIE??????????????????????????????????????/

Like I said before I could care less about Wal-Mart ,that only when the Stock bottoms out to 30.00 I will buy all that I can

RDS,

And there, you have it—the life and times of a day trader with nothing better to do.

I am sure our friend wallstreet is not alone in his quest (he’s certainly no pioneer, for sure!).

There are many readers, here (silent, or otherwise) who have a goal as it relates to Wal-Mart:

To bring WMT to its’ knees (or, better-put, a bargain-basement level), load-up on the stuff, and hope for a rebound (which would be possible, given Wal-Mart’s other strengths that some people are being silent about).

It’s what some call the “Monski theory” in reverse.

Bill

wallstreet,

“it is my observation not yours I think it is junk”

Problem here, is that you are telling others that it is junk, based on a 5 minute visit to one store!!  Even Consumer Reports can’t make an observation as to whether something is good or bad, by just looking at it!!  And, the ‘fruit flies’ in the produce section was a nice touch!!

“Tell me why I would LIE??????????????????????????????????????/”

I think you said it yourself, as Bill pointed out, “when the Stock bottoms out to 30.00 I will buy all that I can”, maybe you want to help it drop down a bit through your comments!!

Gee, grasping for straws, huh?

You know, Bill, you make me feel guilty for getting on you for not contributing anything to this blog. My sainted mother taught me never to criticize folks for things that cannot be helped. You’re just not very bright and, as Ron White so aptly puts it: “You can’t fix stupid!”

Your potshots don’t make you seem clever or quick to fire off a cliché. All your comments demonstrate is that you don’t get it.

I’m sorry, Bill, but I’m going to have to stick to my original opinion. You just don’t make the cut. Not even for the unofficial role of blog gadfly.

‘’Living near a Wal-Mart would cheapen the neighborhood.’’ ~ Carl Lanke

P.S. ...when the Stock bottoms out to 30.00...

What makes you think $30 is the bottom, wallstreet? It wasn’t so long ago that many analysts saw $45 as the ‘bottom’.

And when should we look for the positive effects of the touted stock buy-back?

“I supported this company. I’d bleed Wal-Mart blue for them, but come Thursday night, whenever I was terminated, I’ve lost all respect for Wal-Mart.”~ Mark Neeley (12 yrs)

Ken,

“You know, Bill, you make me feel guilty for getting on you for not contributing anything to this blog”

And what do you contribute?  Old, recycled quotes from bitter people who want “to hurt Wal-Mart because they hurt me”?

Oh, I may have just summed-up your 5 years’ worth of research—my bad…

Bill

Boy do I wish I had that power,to make Wal-Mart Stock drop down by just saying they have fruit flies just think if what I said about Wal-Mart came true.

Wal-Mart is on the down side no matter what the Pro Wal Mart people think, Ken you have some sense think about it is already 2.00 down from what they thought it was.

The Company is showing the signs of financial problems downing sizing payroll,inventory and a halt of any future expansion.

The major Stock owners left do not participate in day to day operations of the company. The biggest give away was a Corporate Appraisal which is much like a House Appraisal to determine the value.,and sadly Helen Walton passed away ,she would never think of selling off Wal-Mart

They are also trying to raise Capital by selling off there Real Estate,granted some Cities mad them sell there older building before granted the new spot.

It may not bottom out that low but the downward spiral of the Stock and Wal-Mart trying to buy back what it can makes it ripe for a corporate Takeover I do not know if they will have the Capital to stop it,credit rating is down and they have some marginal loans

May I chime in?

First of all while Wal-Mart may be ignorant when it comes to labor relations, they certainly are not ignorant when it comes to financials.

I totally disagree with the notion that somehow a downward spiral in market price, and corporate repurchases, indicate a ‘ripeness’ for takeover.

Quite the contrary, it is quite common for a company to re-invest capital to support certain baseline prices of its stock.
Furthermore it would be no problem for a company the size of Wal-Mart to pursue leveraged recap, to fend off a takeover.

That’s assuming there is any company even willing to try!
Which I very seriously doubt.

If anyone knows of a company out there, wealthy enough, with enough stockholder backing, to do battle with Wal-Mart in a hostile takeover (which is what it would have to be), let me know who you see playing that role.

I want to make sure I do not own stock in them.

Chow.

cazar,

I found this one on WMW from a couple months ago…

“The fall of Wal-Mart would only cause a momentary blip. Target, KMart, Dollar Stores, Costco, etc. are more than ready to take up the slack.~ Ken V in Texas

I may not often agree with what you have to say, but your viewpoints come across as a lot “smarter” than many of the other “anti-regulars”, here.

Bill

It would not be n American Company, Wal-Marthas over 500 Million in debt due now and 2017 .

Their perspective filed with the SEC was based on making all Stores Super Center’s hiring and maintain experience employees’

They have closed one Sam’s and two Wal-Mart’s for lack of business,do you think this is making lenders nervous. and a hold on new Super Center’s in some area’

Bill
when will you get it I am not pro- or anit Wal-Mart just because I post things not in Wal-Mart favor, I did post one time and gave Credit to Scott along with Sam to bring the Company were it is today.

You say this about any one that does not thing that Wal-Mart is the greatest thing since sliced bread what is wrong with you.

should be Wal-Mart not Wal-Marthas listing to something

wallstreet,

I am well-aware that you are on neither side of the fence.

You just want to ultimately make a quick buck.

Bill

I Don’t Think Lee Scott is Too Anxious...

wallstreet:

...gave Credit to Scott along with Sam to bring the Company were it is today.

I don’t think Lee Scott is too anxious these days to take credit for where Wal-Mart “is today.”

wallstreet,

“when will you get it I am not pro- or anit Wal-Mart”

According to Ken V. and Screwedby, there is no such animal, you are either ANTI or you are PRO, there is no in between!!

According to Ken V. and Screwedby, there is no such animal, you are either ANTI or you are PRO, there is no in between!!

I stand by that.

“You’re either part of the solution, or part of the problem.” ~ Eldridge Clever

Remember, RDS… This is War!

there is no in between!!

I stand by this too. 

And the Iraq War, just like the Vietnam War or the Korean War before that, should be fought to a full and decisive victory, or America should tuck its jingoistic tail between its legs and bring our troops home.

“It would not be n American Company, Wal-Marth as over 500 Million in debt due now and 2017.”
wallstreet in
Wednesday, September 05 at 02:38 PM

WalMart’s overall bond issues/notes/debentures etc. exceeds $25 billion. Including known/registered issues outside the United States. Unknown how much has actually been sold. WalMart’s CUSIP# 931142 at Fitchratings shows this-

SHORT TERM
USD 5,000,000,000 — — F1+
USD 20,000,000,000 — — F1+ 93114E

SHORT TERM
26-MAY-2011 JPY 50,000,000 1.78% AA — — XS0255425174
19-DEC-2030 GBP 500,000,000 5.75% AA — — XS0121617517
01-SEP-2035 USD 2,500,000,000 5.25% AA — 931142CB7 US931142CB75

SHORT TERM
01-JUN-2013 USD 500,000,000 7.25% AA — 931142AS2 US931142AS29
15-OCT-2023 USD 250,000,000 6.75% AA — 931142AU7 US931142AU74

SHORT TERM
16-JUN-2008 USD 1,500,000,000 — AA — 931142CE1 US931142CE15
01-OCT-2008 USD 1,000,000,000 3.375% AA — 931142BU6 US931142BU65
10-AUG-2009 USD 3,500,000,000 6.875% AA — 931142BE2 US931142BE24
15-JAN-2010 USD 1,000,000,000 4% AA — 931142BX0 US931142BX05
01-JUL-2010 USD 1,250,000,000 4.125% AA — 931142BZ5 US931142BZ52
15-AUG-2010 USD 800,000,000 4.75% AA — 931142CA9 US931142CA92
15-FEB-2011 USD 2,000,000,000 4.125% AA — 931142BV4 US931142BV49
05-APR-2012 USD 500,000,000 5% AA — 931142CF8 US931142CF89
29-JAN-2013 GBP 498,155,000 4.75% AA — — XS0160673264
01-MAY-2013 USD 1,500,000,000 4.55% AA — 931142BT9 US931142BT92
01-JUL-2015 USD 750,000,000 4.5% AA — 931142BY8 US931142BY87
05-APR-2017 USD 1,000,000,000 5.375% AA — 931142CG6 US931142CG62
15-FEB-2018 USD 500,000,000 5.8% AA — 931142CJ0 US931142CJ02
01-JUN-2018 USD 500,000,000 5.85% AA — 931142BB8 US931142BB84
05-APR-2027 USD 750,000,000 5.875% AA — 931142CH4 US931142CH46
15-FEB-2030 USD 1,000,000,000 7.55% AA — 931142BF9 US931142BF98
28-SEP-2035 GBP 1,000,000,000 5.25% AA — — XS0202077953
15-AUG-2037 USD 2,250,000,000 6.5% AA — 931142CK7 US931142CK74
19-JAN-2039 GBP 1,000,000,000 4.875% AA — — XS0279211832

http://www.fitchratings.com/corporate/ratings/issuer_content.cfm?issr_id=80090564&grp_typ_id=4&mm;_id=&sector_flag=1&marketsector=1&detail;=

WalMart- Where the advanced payday loan dream can become your reality. Apply for your job/debt nightmare today!

SDV

Your government has long-term liabilities approaching $50 TRILLION. GM and Ford both hold debt of close to $150 Billion.

You are dancing over $25 billion in Wal-Mart debt?

You are aware that almost every corporation issues paper, notes, etc. to do this or that and that the money is almost never repaid. They retire the debt by issuing new debt. Wal-Mart’s debt ratio is actually lower than the retail industry standard, I believe. I don’t know why you’re celebrating.

Question for the Invisible Reader:

Does anyone actually read a thread like this from top to bottom in one sitting?

(that assumes anyone reads a thread like this:o)

Corporation: An ingenious device for obtaining profit without individual responsibility. ~ Ambrose Bierce

Does anyone actually read a thread like this from top to bottom in one sitting?

Not when your boy SanDiegoView says the same crapola for the 43rd time, in a row!

Bill

You’re not invisible, Bill, no matter how hard I cross my fingers.

“Wisdom is a woman, and loves only a warrior.” ~ Nietzsche