Letters From The Heartland

The research of University of Missouri economics professor Emek Basher is quit interesting and adds to this point. In “Job Creation or Destruction? Labor-Market Effects of Wal-Mart Expansion” Basher compiles some interesting numbers.

To quote from the abstract : “I find that Wal-Mart entry increases retail employment by 100 jobs in the year of entry. Half of this gain disappears over the next five years as other retail establishments exit and contract, leaving a long-run statistically significant net gain of 50 jobs. Wholesale employment declines by approximately 20 jobs due to Wal-Mart’s vertical integration.”

So in sum, there is a small net gain in jobs created per county attributable to each new Wal-Mart store. But 70 jobs are lost for every 100 gained, and it’s a well known that the new jobs are lower paid than the old ones. (As another fairly well-publicized study has demonstrated, Wal-Mart pays such bottom barrel wages that its workers require, on average, $898 dollars of Medicaid coverage.)

If I were a member of your union the questions I would be asking is “why are my dues being spent on all this activity against Wal*Mart?” The only reason you want Wal*Mart employee’s to vote yes to your unneccessary organization is so your uninon leaders get more money in their pockets.  Your members are paying you leaders to help them, not yourselfs and that is your problem.  It is very simple to print out right lies and made up stories, but it takes integrity to talk about the true facts and the good things.  If Wal*Mart is so bad why than are we the number one retailer and why do we employ so many people?  I am a woman who works at Wal*Mart and have been given nothing but opportunity and appreciation.  I challenge all you union members to ask your leaders why they spend YOUR money on trying to make THEM better off. just think how much better YOUR wages would be if they actually spent YOUR dues on YOU!

Actually Lisa, they do spend my dues on me in the form of thanks to my union insurance I have full coverage medical insurance with no co-pays, and no contribution of my own to health insurance. So i guess you could say that the $30.00 I pay each month in union dues is more so $30.00 that I am paying towards full coverage healthcare. Still not a bad deal now is it? Now that is the truth.

My union dues got us the power to negotiate for a better retirement plan and vision coverage.

Im not really a huge Wally fan, but I gotta stop some of these nearsighted people short on the union thing.  My grandfather was a union teamster in St Louis for 40 years.  His pension fund that was supposed to be “a large sum of money” was actually not paid out at all.

My question to Mr. Wurst and others over the years has been and continues to be - What exactly happened to all of that money paid by the employer and yielded by my grandfather?  I think the government is looking for it.

My Union dues paid to negotiate for Health, dental, vision & prescription plans for my family including adult children to age 23, if in college. Co-pays are zero to $5. My retirement plan is one of the best if not the best in the country. Not to mention 401k s, and company stock options. The Union I belong to has scholarships available to members children.  All a benefit of Union dues. The Union provides additional Life & Disability insurance, for its members, at a cost below private sector Insurance rates.

It is about damn time Union people start speaking up to quell these critics who see Unions to be nothing more than haeadbangers when there are strikes, the reason why jobs are being outsourced, the reason why companies are not making a profit, etc.

I am the wife of a Union Activist where he works. I attend functions with him to support the Brothers and Sisters in the Trades,etc. I have also spent time on picket lines, even did picketing at WM and resturaunts that were employing Illegals.

John G. wrote:

“ My grandfather was a union teamster in St Louis for 40 years.  His pension fund that was supposed to be “a large sum of money” was actually not paid out at all “

I was a member of the Teamsters too, now I’m retired, I have not recieved 1 penny of my pension money and never expect to.  Too bad all those union supporters will find out in the end, what the union does, but, then it will be to late, just like it was for your grandfather and me, and all those GM and Ford workers whose jobs are being eliminated.  All we ever got from the union was promises and union dues.

I worked for a non-union foundry about 15 years ago, the company paid 100% of health premiums, with $3.00 co-pay on prescriptions only), Had a pension ( which I did recieve), we recieved 11 paid holidays, got bonuses of almost $3500.00 a year, $500.00 in the spring and $3000.00 at Christmas time, vision and dental (paid by the company) and vacation time of 1 week after 1 year, 2 weeks after 3 years, 3 weeks after 7 years and 4 weeks after 15 years.  And, guess what, we didn’t need a union to get this.  We just showed the company that we would work hard, if they would reward us.  On the machine I and 2 other shifts, tripled production in 3 years, with our suggestions and modifications.  We didn’t come in and just run our machines, we worked to make them run better and increase production.  And, in return, the company rewarded us for it.

That is the way it should work.  Work hard and get rewarded, put in your time waiting to get your paycheck and no rewards.

Teamsters union members do not receive a pension because the Teamsters corrupt leaders gave pension fund “loans” to the mafia to buy up Las Vegas in the 1950’s and 1960’s. They then skimmed off the top and showed small profits on the books. The mafia and the union leaders got cash; the union members got their pensions invested in casinos and the money never came back.

What I have found ironic, is the way anti Wal-Mart people talk.  First, they say that they won’t shop at Wal-Mart because the people there are nasty and unhelpful, then they say that the union should come in to give the employees more money and better benefits.  Next, they say that Wal-Mart puts all other business out of business when a new store is built, then they say they shop at other places and wouldn’t even go into a Wal-Mart store.

It’s just too bad that people hear things and accept them as the ‘truth’ and then run with that ball (ever hear the statement “Tax Cuts For The Rich”?).  And, if someone comes in and debunks the statements, they become a ‘troll’ or a paid ‘shill’.  One person here, admitted that he was a paid ‘shill’ for the union and people still believed him over actual Wal-Mart ‘associates’.

It is a ‘truth’, that if you say something often enough, people will start to believe it, whether it is true or not.

OK this is just an honest question. I’ve heard that union dues are paying into a pension fund for present workers and I’ve heard that retired workers aren’t recieving their pensions. Is anyone actually recieving a pension from union membership?

Lori, I’ve seen reports from union retirees here in the past who love the pensions they receive. It appears to be similar to the situation with corporate pensions: if you pay in, you might get something out in the end, or you might not.

This raises a larger question: since things are not certain, and there are too many clear examples of unions and corporations never paying out, why should they be trusted in the first place?

Wouldn’t it be far better for the workers to receive additional compensation at payday (of the amount that would have been invested in the pension) so that the workers can then invest it wherever they want?

Lori - My dad is receiving his pension from the Teamsters union, he worked there for 42 years and was in the union at the time he retired.  I on the other hand, only worked there 12 years and retired as a past employee, so I don’t get mine.

jc - There is a vehicle in place to do just that, it’s called the 401K plan.  If companies would put all of that pension money in an employee’s 401K, it would be owned by the employee and the employee would be able to manage it.  And the company would not be able to touch it.  In the case of the Teamsters union, they manage the pension plan, therefore, they have access to the funds.  A union doesn’t always manage the fund, sometimes the company does. This is part of the problem with GM, the airlines and other companies.  They borrowed from the pension funds and the funds became under funded.  Now, they are saddled with all of that debt, so the government will most likely bail them out, in other words, the taxpayer.  Hey, would that mean that a union company would force the taxpayers to cover benefits to employees?  Thought only non-union companies like Wal-Mart did that!!

Robert

If you look at the textile, steel, airline and auto sectors, you will notice that taxpayers are paying the pensions and health care costs for MILLIONS of union workers.

Taxpayers are giving direct subsidies to companies amounting to BILLIONS of DOLLARS.

GM and Ford have stumbled their way to the trough and are now demanding taxpayer assistance.

Taxpayers have subsidized the steel industry, in the form of tariffs and direct subsidies, to the tune of more than $100 billion.

Taxpayers pay tens of billions per year to pay farmers for low crop prices, which encourages even more production next year, which causes even lower crop prices, which triggers even more subsidies.......you get the picture.

Every legitimate study ever done clearly shows that Wal-Mart’s net effect on our economy is upwards of $24 billion per year, even assuming lost jobs, depressed wages, subsidies and tax breaks.

The net effect of deadbeat corporations and their union employees has to be NEGATIVE billions of dollars per year. I haven’t done s study yet but now that I mentioned it, I may do that this weekend if I have time. If anyone else has those numbers, please share them.

I have a friend that worked in a union company for 30 years and her pension check each month is $12.00.  Now, I think that is an insult after paying union dues for 30 years.
I work at Wal-Mart and I like it but if the union did come I would not join.  Alabama is an open shop state so I could still work there and not join.  But, we DON’T WANT A UNION.........

K,
Did you miss type that? Are you for real saying that your friend is only getting a twelve dollar pension after 30 years at a union company? That is hard to believe why such a small amount I thought union pensions when the person actually gets them are supposed to be great? I’m not calling you a liar don’t misunderstand I’m just trying to figure out for real why people would join a union. I think I would rather get nothing then to get 12 dollars a month I would find that an insult.

Lori
No I didn’t type it wrong, she gets $12 a month.  She joined the union because back then they did help get you a little more pay than min., but obviously they didn’t have much of a pension plan.  A friend of hers that worked at the same place for 40 years only gets $100 a month.  I think that is a shame and these unions think we are so stupid we would want that.  The union I was in for 13 years will only pay me $50 a month when I retire.  I think it is pathetic.

Union members like the so called guaranteed pensions because then they don’t have to watch out for themselves.  The unions are supposedly watching out for them, since they don’t want the pressure of being responsible for themselves and saving some of their own money. Right now, I have money in my walmart 401k and no one can touch it. It is guaranteed when I retire, it will be there with out a worry that some else other then me will raid it for funds. Each year when I get a raise, I add another 1% from my bi weekly paycheck into it and it has grown considerably. This is all due to my own responsibility and I don’t expect others to watch my back, other then to maybe show me how to invest it. Also, with walmart giving us a option on HSA’s for health insurance(yes, I said option, I didn’t say they were forcing us over to them, it’s our choice), I have the opportunity to save even more money, and in a couple years, actually cut back what I am paying for my health insurance.

I am like Steve, I pay into my 401K and Wal-Mart contributes a percentage into it also.  We also have a retirement pension.  When we retire we can get a lump-sum distribution instead of a little check each month like the union pays..  If you have worked at Wal-Mart over 7 years your pension can be a large sum.  Like he said we have the option we are not forced.

Steve and k - Good for you, you will find you made the right choice to invest in your 401K.  I worked for a company for 14 years, putting into my 401K.  Like Steve, I upped the amount of contribution everytime I got a raise.  When I retired, I had $89,000.00 in it.  I have been drawing $1000.00 a month out of it for 1 1/2 years now and it is worth more than when I retired, $92,000.00.  Just make sure you pick good investment funds to invest in.  If you leave it in the original investment, usually a guaranteed or stable type of fund, you will have very little gains.  Watch the percent of gain for each fund, and put your money in a number of top percentage gainers.

Is this really the kind of money these people are fighting for in the union pension funds? I always thought that union pensions if you was able to get one were supposed to be way above average amounts of money to retire on. How can this heppen to these people that spent years and thought they were going to be able to live comfortably? My step dad has been in the UAW for as long as I can remember, over 30 years I know for sure and my little sister said he couldn’t afford to retire but I thought he was just struggling from all the lay offs over the years. Now I wonder what he’s going to get when he retires because I know that was what he counted on for when he retired.

Why you dont need a union…

Can a union guarantee you will get a great retirement check?
Can a union guarantee you a big paycheck?
Just what can they guarantee? NOTHING AT ALL…

After 45 years of working for a paycheck, and getting only that, now i work for walmart and it is the best overall job of my life, in only five years i have a few thousand in 401k and profit sharing, all paid by walmart, also i have recieved over $8000 in bonus pay--over a thousand dollars added to my stock purchase plan---sick hours added for free, one year ago i hed to use over 100 hours, it was great to have and walmart gave it as another free benefit----also my health insurance has only cost me around $1.500 for the five years.

If you want a good job and want to work hard you can go a long way at walmart.

With over $10.000 in bonus pay, sick pay, and stock purchase plan, also over $4.000 in profit sharing and 401k and my health insurance around $1.500

continued from above----i hit the wrong button--sorry

and my health insurance around $1.500 for the five years, you can do the math, it workes out to a great deal for me and could also work for you.

thank you and merry christmas from a happy walmart associate.

Way to go bry

I 100% agree with you if you want to you can get ahead at Wal-Mart.  The union is good for nothing except starting trouble.  Like that stupid commercial on TV today about where would Jesus shop.  In the Bible belt people know what Wal-Martdoes for our communities, they donate to schools, churches, police dept. fire dept and they serve the community with low affordable prices.  We do wish everyone a Merry Christmas.

Robert Springer:  One of your recent posts explains your state of mind on most issues.  It also explains why you and all your Pro Wal-Mart buddies “join hands” and post about 12 times a day.  You stated: “It is a ‘truth’, that if you say something often enough, people will start to believe it, whether it is true or not.  This gives a whole new meaning to the term dope ring!
Robert Springer in Springdale, Ar.
Friday, December 09 at 10:02 AM

Of course, many of us were onto you a long time ago!

Tom Boese
Field Producer - Wisconsin
Brave New Films

Tom Boese - You can say what you want about me, I don’t really care.  But, I’m not the one pimping a movie.  I’m not the one who is helping the union to grab onto part of someone’s wages.  And, I’m not the one who shows his intelligence by burning CD’s in my backyard with some of my drinking buddies.  Who is it that people really “were on to a long time ago”?  By the way, Martina McBride is doing commercials for Wal-Mart too, have you or any of your friends got any CD’s of hers?  If so, it’s time for another CD burning party.

Tom - As for my posting 12 times a day, I’m retired, so I don’t have to go to work.  I don’t have to go out and shovel snow.  Besides, it’s fun showing people what the true face of union supporters looks like.

It’s funny that those Objectivist Kool-Aide drinkers and Corporate Shills don’t bring up Bethlehem Steel, where the execs got their pensions but screwed over the workers’ ones because the company spent all the pension money just before going bankrupt (but the CEO arranged the exec’s pensions in a seperate account that wasn’t touched).

There are plenty examples of this kind of behavior.

There was one large failure, the Teamsters, due to Mafia ties.  There are god-knows-how-many Corporate Execs destroying pension plans (Enron, Delphi), and often deliberately.

One more thing, I have no idea what all this rubbish is about with Union guys.  I have worked in Retail, 3 years at management, and I never talked to anybody that worked for a Union that said the Union Shop was worse than Non-Union.

As for merit, unskilled jobs don’t teach skills that allow for promotion.  That might be because they’re “Unskilled” jobs.

Unskilled also doesn’t mean easy.  Ask any busy diner waitress or ditch digger.

Unions and hard work---dont go together

Unions lead people on and make them think they will be paid big money without working hard for it.

In many cases that has been true in the past, however it’s a new world today and those handouts are a thing of the past.

My first job as an adult---in 1960 i went to work in a large grocery store in wichita kansas, the pay was $.80 cents per hr, i started at the bottom and worked hard, i was not expecting something for nothing, it was a unskilled job, however i did not let that stop me, i worked to learn all i could about the business, by 1964 i was a dept manager and making good money---living the good life, driving a new car and living in a nice home.

Young people today have a chance to do what ever they want to do, at walmart if you want to work hard you can get to whatever level you want-- it’s up to you and only you.

Many of walmart’s top people started at the bottom and worked their way to the top, you could do the same.

I started with walmart at age 57, that was five years ago, and i have been treated good at walmart, if i would have went to work for walmart many years ago i would be able to retire now and have plenty of money to live on--my mistake.

With the new stores walmart will open in the future they will need many associates in a variety of jobs throughout the company, the possibilities are unlimited.

See you at walmart and merry christmas.

I say we start pushing for Howard Dean to lead the UFCW. I am a Republician but I haven’t been to happy with the way there has been so much back biting amongst the party. Enter Howard Dean. He has successfully turned the momentum back to the Republicians and have the Dems fighting amongst themselves. Now if we can get him to back the UFCW, they might just blow up from inside and never be heard from again…

Pensions are around for the same reason that social security is around - people are stupid.  A person can be smart, but people are stupid.  401K plans are great for some people, but MANY people will not contribute, or will not make wise decisions with the money later on.  That is why we have pension plans and social security - to pay out a small amount at a time so that people don’t do stupid things with it.

You can argue all you want about what you would like done with your money, but what is the stupid guy down the street going to do after he gambles away all of his 401k or buys a boat?

Unions negotiate contracts. With the contracts come wage scales and benefits to the employees. The employee if he or she belongs to the union (which is dependent on the situation) pays dues to the union. These are not part of a pension plan.
Pension plans come from the negotiated contract. What the dues are more or less administrative costs. It costs money to pay for legal advice, for organizing and setting up. For a number of things. It is not free. The pay from a negotiated contract tends to be better. The benefits tend to be real. You are not going to triple you pay however overnight. It’s a process that brings you more financial security gradually. As far as pension plans go though as Union Boss stated above there are plenty of people who are stupid when it comes to money. For example there are a few where I work who think if they don’t invest in the retirement plan they’ll still get all the benefit from it anyway and they don’t know how to save.
There is not much you can do for some people who’s heads are harder than cement.

Larry,

You seem to be the most levelheded person so far in regards to the benifits of belonging to a Union. Thank you!!  Some people here are so bull-headed, no matter what is said about the positives, it is the negatives they believe most.

I just returned from a Union Education Class in which 3 State Represenatives, 1 State Senator, and several candidates for State offices were also in attendance. I have a brochure with me loaded with FACTS as to how Unions benifit both Employer ,Employee, and the Community, adn Country as a whole. I will read off many of these facts.

Union Advantages: Wages, Health care, Pensions, and Paid Vacation Days....

Wages: (Union) average $781 vs. $612 (non-Union) per week
Health Care: 92% vs. 68% that are covered with co-pays from their Employer
guranteed Pensions: 73% vs. 16%
Paid vacation Days: 15 days vs. 11.75 days

The numbers for Union workers are higher than for those who are non-Union.

Union wage adavantages are 22% higher than those without a Union.

What Unions have done to better America…

1) Social Security Act, 1935
2) Fair Labor Standards Act, 1938
3) Pension Disclosure Act, 1958
4) Civil Rights Act, 1964
5) Medicare, 1965
6) OSHA, 1970
7) Employee retirement Income Security Act (ERISA), 7490
8) Americans With Disabilities Act (ADA),1990
9) Family and Medical Leave Act, 1993

There is another Labor Act in the works in the Houses of Congress that has half of the US House of Rep. in favor and one-third of the US Senate....Employee Free Choice Act, HR 1696 and S. 842 which if passed will gurantee....

-Democratic majority sign up
-First Contract arbitration
-Remidies to disputes

Any of you who have not benifited in some ways to these acts on the National level and still believe Americans do not want Unions, you cannot have it both ways.

According to recent Gallup, Newsweek polls, over 57 million Americans want the right to form or belong to a Union by their Employer with the threat of firing and intimidation. Legal suits are filed daily to the NLRB over Labor Violations. It takes years of litigation before cases are heard.

Employers fight union Organizing by hiring lawyers to bust attempts by employees who want more voice in the work place. Employers also fight the Collective Bargaining of Unions.

Collective Bargaining assures....

1) Beter living standards so that workers can better take care of their families without relying on Social programs.

2) Reduces inequality and poverty, which in turn puts more money back into the Economy.

3) Narrows race and gender wage gaps.

4) Strengthens the social safety nets for those who will need some help in the future.

4) Increases political participation by becoming more educated on issues that affect the American nation.

5) Counters excessive corporate power, thus having accountability at the corporate level.

And WHY workers want Unions???? 

To win a livable wage, benifits, job safety, better working conditions, overtime pay for overtime work, fair treatment by their employer, a voice on the job, the ability to negotiate affordable Health Care coverage, negotiate flexible work schedules for working parents and those with sick children or family members, negotiate family leave policies that also help working parents.

The late Rev. Martin Luther king, Jr. was an ardent supporter of Unions. “The Labor movement was the principal force that transformed misery and dispair into hope and progress. Those who would destroy or further limit the rights of organized labor...do a disservice to the cause of democracy.”
Not many know that the reason why the Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr. was in Memphis in April of 1968 when he was assassinated, was to lend support to the Sanitation workers
who were going to walk out on the job for inequities of wages to those of white workers.

I was at this workshop as today is National Human Rights at the Workplace Day as sponsored by Human Rights groups, the AFL-CIO, the American Coincil of Churches, and other organiaztions who support the rights of workers to be heard and to be treated decently by corporate America. The above facts was supplied by the noted organizations.

Typo....The Employee retirement Income Security Act (ERISA), 1974

Just a thought,

Why dont you union people go help the gm workres----- sorry i guess you already have.

What about the gm pension plan---all those workers that will be laid off----once again you done your part.

Many of us that are older have seen many union shops go bust and the workers left with nothing.

merry christmas

If these union people really want to help people, why don’t they try first to help the restaurant workers?

They get paid at a lower minimum wage, have to depend on tips to make a decent wage, get basically NO benefits and are scheduled as needed.  Where are the people who care about them?  Talk about people who don’t make a ‘Living Wage”.

Kathy - Collective Bargaining assures.... nothing!!  Hopefully, you will gain, but, nothing is assured.

guranteed Pensions: 73% vs. 16%?  Tell that to the union workers who have lost their pensions.  Promises are easy to make, but just as easy to break.

Bobby said:

“If these union people really want to help people, why don’t they try first to help the restaurant workers?”

Perhaps if there was a restaurant chain with more than a million employees toiling under the same conditions as Walmart employees.

Robert,

Because waitstaff rely on tips for most of their incomes, Resturants are not held to paying Minimum wage. Resturants get around the law no matter how hard a Union strives to get them to abide. Nor are all resturants Union shops. Just like WM, many of them fight it.  And it’s not that H.E.R.E locals have not tried in the past.

And you are wrong about Collective Bargaining. Because you were soured about Unions when you were working, does not mean that it does not work. The facts I presented are valid. If you do not like what I presented, then is your poragitive.

Kathy--I belong to APWU. I’ve detailed all that here before though and am not in any big rush to do so again. If someone were interested all I will say is search the archives.
People who don’t know have notions very often about membership that are out of whack. For instance that everyone is either forced to belong or that those who decide not to-- when they can belong are automatically
shunned. At least where I work this is not the case but at least 90% belong. There is a national agreement which takes in wage scales, benefits, matters over employer and employee conduct etc. There are local agreements also between local management and the unions to work on problems unique to a particular facility. The majority of stuff even if there is disagreement is conducted amicably. The majority of stuff is resolved without animosity. It can include things like safety issues, holiday scheduling, sick time policies, how the overtime list will work. A lot of it very boring and time consuming for those officers who have to do it which is done here more than less on their free time. Still boring or not they need to be aware and alert to what they are talking about. More or less both sides just want to be on the same page on most of this. Did not know that Dr. King was in Memphis for a strike by sanitation workers. Thank you.

Kathy

You forgot to mention something. How many BILLIONS OF DOLLARS in UNION pensions and health care are now being paid directly taxpayers who get nothing in return?

How many union jobs have been lost over the last decade? How many union jobs have been created over the last decade?
How many non-union jobs have been lost over the last decade?
How many non-union jobs have been created over the last decade?

How many unions were corrupted by the mafia?
How many union executives were indicted and convicted on state and federal charges?
How much Teamster pension money went through the mob to buy Las Vegas?
What percentage of US PRIVATE SECTOR workers belonged to a union in 1995 and what percentage belong now?
How much money did the unions take off the taxpayers due to higher costs for construction, building materials, clothing and trucking (mafia kickbacks)?