Look Who Hanes Has Got Their Labor Violations On Now

Don’t know about where the rest of you live exactly but there is a growing concern about the quality of goods made outside of Canada/United States.
People are starting to realize that there is not the same standards for quality, safety and the enviroment in the countries that Walmart and other retailers are sourcing from.
It is good that people are now becoming aware.

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We will never forget what you did Walmart.
Never.

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Yeah, Alex!!  You are right!!  Where are all of these computers made?  Where are all of these internal computer components made?  Where are most TVs made?  Where are Toyota and Nissan cars parts made?  How about a BMW or Lexus? 

You are high if you actually believe that garbage that spews from your mouth!! 

Remember Jonquiere!!!  (Do you all remember, or did you all forget like most of the world??)

Michael D.-

We have got to get this cat, Alex and my man, SanDiego View, together----now wouldn’t that be one heckuva road show!

Seriously, one is about as nuts as the other.......

Jake

Yes, Alex, we should be worried about the quality of goods made outside the US and that includes your “arguments”. Other poor quality items outside the US include Socialized Medicine and Canadian union workers (who are either on strike, vandalizing their employer or producing low quality cars).

You, of course, neglect to mention that Dell Computers, Toyota car parts, Abercrombie & Fitch clothing and many other fine products are made outside the US. The bashing of non-US workers has nothing to do with concerns about quality of life or products but, rather, with the protectionist/racist view against foreigners who are willing and able to do similar work for far lower cost.

Whine Whine Whine. Does any rational human being believe that the union thugs really give two shits about the plight of foreign workers or the quality of their product? What do you expect them to say? “Foreigners produce high quality products but at least we cost more!”?

My Mercedes runneth over… Jake the imbecile #6 at 90MPH.

Nick,
Great point about the “fake” concern that unions and anti-WM people have for foreign workers. They “care” about these workers in so far as it helps them gain stronger control of jobs in this country. I personally cannot imagine a higher form of greed and hypocrisy - and here’s the best part - it’s all under the guise of “compassion” . . . This is not to say that I disagree with doing things that help yourself first, but be honest about it - call an apple and apple - to lie about it and pretend you care is just plain dispicable and dishonest.

I submit to these people - if you care sooooo much about these foreign workers, put your money where your mouth is - donate to a foreign aid organization - there’s literally hundreds of them, and the money you donate would go DIRECTLY to them, as opposed to “helping” them indirectly by avoiding WM or joining a union. If you do that, then I will believe that your sentiment is real and will not bring this point up again. I will, however, require proof of your donation, because I know that there are some who would lie about it, so you have to scan your receipt or mail it to me, and I’ll post it somewhere.

Let me be the first to say “Welcome to SDV’s club Jake”!!!  Just so sorry you’re only #6 but keep posting commen sense remarks and I’m sure you’ll move up that list very quickly.  In SDV’s “murky” thought process there is no tolerance for “get to the point logical posts” like yours.

Congrats!!!

SanDiego-

You have a Merc?

I guess the second shift at Costco really does pay you the big bucks (who would’ve thunk?).

Either that, or you have something else going-on ;-)

Jake

Can You say ménage à trois, Jake?

“ We have got to get this cat, Alex and my man, SanDiego View, together----now wouldn’t that be one heckuva road show!”

I’ll tell you what a “road show” is… Jake.  It’s You, Nick, and RDS!

Al

If these union people really cared about the plight of foreign workers, they would say “Whoever makes a product cheaper, with similar quality, should get the work”. No, instead that complain about “sweatshops”, as though they care. The only reason they care is because sweatshops are cheaper than US union labor. If millions of foreigners, including children, were working 90-hour weeks in unsafe and brutal conditions, I believe that US unions would not really care. The only thing unions care about is protecting their jobs and their dues revenue. That is all. They don’t lose sleep over child labor in China unless it competes with them. Then, under the guise of “concern” they demand an end to it. Because they care? No, because it undercuts them on cost.

Even today, with closed shops and prevailing wage, unions have managed to protect themselves. Even the AMA, the world’s most powerful union, protects itself. How do unions do this? Well, government puts unions in charge of the labor in their fields. They then allow unions to set the standards and control the number of people working in their field. What genius ever thought that letting workers limit their competition was a good thing? If the unions were so certain that workers everywhere want a union representing them, they would support the secret ballot, open shops and doing away with “prevailing wage”. But they will not advocate these things, which tells us that they fear competition. For years, labor unions discriminated against blacks. Blacks couldn’t get into the unions and so they hired themselves out a cheaper rates. They began taking so much construction work that the unions went to the government and demanded prevailing wage laws. Now, it was illegal for workers to work for less than the mandated (and union level) wages and unions got the inside track on all government projects. If one company has guys willing to do the same job at $15 per hour, why should the taxpayers pay other guys to do the job at $28 per hour?

Unions were, and still are, puppets for organized crime and their union leadership has been indicted and convicted far more often than the “evil, greedy” CEO’s of corporate America.

Unions are like leeches; producing nothing, taking from the productivity of others, sort of like government.

I will make the argument that labor unions are guilty of violating RICO laws because they do something illegal (restrain trade) and are an ongoing criminal conspiracy to continue this illegality. If GM, Ford & Chyrsler got together and made demands of the UAW, the union would sue and call this restraint of trade, which it most likely is. But when ONE group gets the workers at three seperate legal entities (GM, Ford & Chrysler) under its thumb, it effectively controls labor for an entire industry in this country. By having this control and refusing any outside competition, unions, especially the UAW, engage in restraint of trade. Some day, a brave attorney will take up this cause and unions will be busted by the law.

I, for one, cannot wait.

Michael, Nick, Jake, RDS (formerly known as Bob), Mary

Laugh if you want but here is an article from one of your own newspapers:

Published - Friday, June 22, 2007

POST COMMENT | READ COMMENTS (10 comment(s))

U.S. must protect itself from shoddy and dangerous goods

ADVERTISEMENT



BY Tribune staff

.
A time when the global economy is cranking out goods, and products are coming in from overseas might not be the best time to cut staff on the Consumer Product Safety Commission.

But that’s what has been happening. Consumer Protect Safety Commission staff members have been cut by 10 percent.

Meanwhile, according to The New York Times, China accounts for up about 60 percent of all consumer product recalls — including toys covered with lead paint.

A recent story in The Times discussed the most recent recall of Thomas and Friends train toys from Chinese factories. They were coated in lead paint.

Another toy, a fake eyeball, was discovered to be filled with kerosene. Still another toy, an infant rattle, was deemed a choking hazard.

Chinese goods made up every one of the 24 toys that were subject to recall this year.

The question is: What are we missing? Consumer advocates contend that the Consumer Product Safety Commission is nowhere near as vigilant as it needs to be.

The times quoted Janel Mayo Duncan of Consumers Union, which publishes the magazine “Consumer Reports.”

She said of the Consumer Product Safety Commission, “They need more money and resources to do more checks.”

While there have been many issues with China recently, including contaminated food, the issue is broader than China. While that nation has rapidly been developing its manufacturing ability, there are other developing nations out there that could follow in China’s footsteps with similar quality-control issues as they develop their manufacturing systems.

If the United States is going to live in a global economy that its trade policies have encouraged, then we must have the ability to monitor and detect shoddy or dangerous goods in a much more effective way than we are now.

That means paying attention to the ability of the government to protect consumers — even if that means reversing some of the staff cuts made during the past few years, or even adding staff and capabilities.

The United States helped to make this new global economy. Now let’s be able to defend ourselves from some of its ill effects.
.
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NIck0415,

“Unions are like leeches; producing nothing, taking from the productivity of others, sort of like government.”

Gee, isn’t that exactly what the anti Wal-Mart people claim Wal-Mart is doing to their workers, making money off the labor of others?

Unions are like leeches; producing nothing, taking from the productivity of others, sort of like government.

Some day, a brave attorney will take up this cause and unions will be busted by the law.

I, for one, cannot wait.

NIck0415@lycos.com in
Saturday, June 23 at 02:52 PM

So your government sucks, and your unions suck, and when the unions are gone (take another puff Nick0415) then we will have the corporations to be our protectors? I am sure this would be a wonderful world.

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Alex,

“U.S. must protect itself from shoddy and dangerous goods”

Last I heard, Wal-Mart doesn’t run the Consumer Product Safety Commission!!

“Another toy, a fake eyeball, was discovered to be filled with kerosene”

I find this one strange, isn’t water cheaper than kerosene?  Why would they put a more expensive liquid in the toy, instead of the cheaper water, makes little sense!!

“Last I heard, Wal-Mart doesn’t run the Consumer Product Safety Commission!!
RDS in
Sunday, June 24 at 01:53 AM

So you feel that retailers do not share responsibility when it comes to consumer safety?

As far as questions about the article you would have to write to the newspaper itself.

US must protect itself from shoddy and dangerous goods
LaCrosse Tribune, WI - Jun 21, 2007
BY Tribune staff

Once again I go back to saying that people are becoming aware of the poor and sometimes dangerous quality of the goods produced in China.

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Screwed by WalMart-

Look, man, I am really, really sorry you were screwed-over by WallyWorld when they had a run on tampons.  That can be tough at certain times of the month, I know.

But don’t take it out on the rest of the world (even if you did anoint yourself as the “attack dog of WalMart Watch)--it’s just not cool.

Jake

Hey, Jonpierre-

I don’t know about Canada, but WallyWorld did a helluva lot better job than Uncle Sam on helping the folks who were affected by Hurricanes Katrina and Rita.

What’s the deal about Jacksonville, Texas, anyway, brother (Maybe I should ask “Big Texas”, but he seems to have mysteriously disappeared--maybe he has a hot date?).

Jake

Alex,

“So you feel that retailers do not share responsibility when it comes to consumer safety?”

Yes, they do to a certain point and that point does not require that they run a “Consumer Products Testing Center, and TEST every product that they sell!!  That is what taxpayers pay the government to do!!  How much do you think items would cost, if the retailer had to test EVERYTHING, in every shipment, they sell before putting it on the shelves?

Now, take American producers, they DO test their products and guess what, they still sometimes have RECALLS!!

Taken from WorkersTimes.com

But statistics are hard, cold facts. They don’t put a human face on Wal-Mart.

Like the 200 working families in Jonquiere, Quebec who voted several months ago for union representation by the United Food & Commercial Workers, but who lost their jobs when Wal-Mart simply closed the entire store rather than be unionized.

Like the hundreds of meatcutters (albeit non-union meatcutters) in Jacksonville, Texas who lost their jobs when Wal-Mart closed all their meat counters and went to pre-packaged meats simply because a handful of meatcutters in this single store chose to become UFCW members.

Like the hundreds of thousands of Americans who lost their jobs because Wal-Mart demanded their employers close their American factories and open plants overseas, notably in China, where child labor is an integral part of the workforce and where workers earn pennies an hour. (Did you know that Wal-Mart uses over 3,000 Chinese factories to produce its goods?).

Like the thousands upon thousands of Americans forced out of work in small towns across the nation when a Wal-Mart opened its doors in their communities. An example: a study by Iowa State University showed that in the first decade after Wal-Mart stores opened in Iowa, the state lost 555 grocery stores, 298 hardware stores, 293 building support stores, 161 variety stores, 158 women’s apparel stores, 153 shoe stores, 116 drugstores and 111 mens’ and boys’ apparel stores. All in the name of “low prices.”

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Jonpierre-

Thanks for answering my question, brother (WallyWorld meat cutters go union, WallyWorld meat cutters get the axe--or in this case, an automated meat cleaver).

If there are lany essons to be learned from that, my take on it is:

“You wanna play, you gotta pay!”

Jake

Jake,

In case you haven’t noticed, a lot of stores have went from fresh meat cutting to prepackaged meat, not just Wal-Mart!!  And, in the Sam’s Club in my town, they still have a fresh meat counter with meat cutters on hand!!

The rest of Alex’s post is standard union playbook propaganda!!  In the real world, there are results to actions, Wal-Mart closes a store, result, people lose jobs!!  Company goes to pre-packaged meat, meat cutters lose job (You notice, that the majority of the meat cutters were non-union, by Alex’s own admission, yet he says the elimination was because a few were union?)!!  Companies move operations to lower wage countries, employees lose jobs (Notice how Alex blames Wal-Mart?)!!  New store opens, old stores can’t keep their customers, because they don’t compete, businesses close!! 

Autos are invented, horse raisers and buggy makers are put out of work, it’s sad, but it’s called progress!!  Cave finders put out of work, when people move to houses!!  All Wal-Mart’s fault, I’m sure!!

Alex

Please explain something to me. I won’t get into the history of economic shifts, post WWII automobiles, highways, suburbia, strip malls, shopping malls, etc. to explain the demise of mom and pop. What I want you to explain is so simple even Screwed can follow the logic. Can you do it? Here’s the question:

Podunk, Iowa is a small town of 6,000 people. Because they are so small, no national chain wants to come there. So, there are 4 pharmacies, 3 clothing stores, 1 department store, 2 grocery stores and 1 auto parts shop in town. Then, Wal-Mart opens up outside of town. These other businesses start to close, one by one. Now, if the people of Podunk are happy with their small town environment and happy with the hours, prices, parking, convenience, service and selection at their Mom and Pop stores, why would they shop at Wal-Mart? The whole town hates Wal-Mart and all the merchants in town provide excellent service at great prices. How does Wal-Mart take the business of Mom and Pop? Why do customers abandon Mom and Pop for Wal-Mart? Why don’t Mom and Pop try and compete?

The big question for you then, Alex, is this: if Wal-Mart is so unpopular and people are so happy with their current shopping choices, why do customers abandon their local yokel stores and shop at Wal-Mart? There must be a reason. No matter what this reason, Wal-Mart offers customers something they want. How is that bad? Should it be illegal for a store to attract customers? Explain to me just how Wal-Mart gets any business when everyone knows that all people enjoy their current shopping choices. Just where do these Wal-Mart shoppers come from?

Can you explain to me why people would shop at Wal-Mart and spend $345 BILLION there in 2006?

Where did I say this Nick?
“The big question for you then, Alex, is this: if Wal-Mart is so unpopular and people are so happy with their current shopping choices,.....”

“Podunk, Iowa is a small town of 6,000 people. Because they are so small, no national chain wants to come there."[Nick]

But I will tell you this. If Walmart is so successful in a town of 6,000 and they wiped out all of the competition (11 stores in town), it sure makes your Walmart look like they have a credibility problem when they say Jonquiere wasn’t making a profit.

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Nick,

There goes the old “Where did I say this Nick?”, from Alex, he used to do that to me all the time!!  He would make a statement, and then when you try to explain in responce, he says, “Where did I say this?”!!  And, guess what, he is right, it was “Taken from WorkersTimes.com”, they said it, not Alex, he just posted it!!  But, isn’t posting something, kind of like saying it?  Not to Alex, if it wasn’t ‘his’ exact words, he didn’t say it!!

Thank you Alex-

“Like the hundreds of thousands of Americans who lost their jobs because Wal-Mart demanded their employers close their American factories and open plants overseas, notably in China, where child labor is an integral part of the workforce and where workers earn pennies an hour. (Did you know that Wal-Mart uses over 3,000 Chinese factories to produce its goods?).”

“Like the thousands upon thousands of Americans forced out of work in small towns across the nation when a Wal-Mart opened its doors in their communities. An example: a study by Iowa State University showed that in the first decade after Wal-Mart stores opened in Iowa, the state lost 555 grocery stores, 298 hardware stores, 293 building support stores, 161 variety stores, 158 women’s apparel stores, 153 shoe stores, 116 drugstores and 111 mens’ and boys’ apparel stores. All in the name of “low prices.””

WHERE CORPORATE PSYCHOPATHS GO TO EXPLOIT LABOR-

JOHN PERKINS: Well, the company I worked for was a company named Chas. T. Main in Boston, Massachusetts. We were about 2,000 employees, and I became its chief economist. I ended up having fifty people working for me. But my real job was deal-making. It was giving loans to other countries, huge loans, much bigger than they could possibly repay. One of the conditions of the loan–let’s say a $1 billion to a country like Indonesia or Ecuador–and this country would then have to give ninety percent of that loan back to a U.S. company, or U.S. companies, to build the infrastructure–a Halliburton or a Bechtel. These were big ones. Those companies would then go in and build an electrical system or ports or highways, and these would basically serve just a few of the very wealthiest families in those countries. The poor people in those countries would be stuck ultimately with this amazing debt that they couldn’t possibly repay. A country today like Ecuador owes over fifty percent of its national budget just to pay down its debt. And it really can’t do it. So, we literally have them over a barrel. So, when we want more oil, we go to Ecuador and say, “Look, you’re not able to repay your debts, therefore give our oil companies your Amazon rain forest, which are filled with oil.” And today we’re going in and destroying Amazonian rain forests, forcing Ecuador to give them to us because they’ve accumulated all this debt. So we make this big loan, most of it comes back to the United States, the country is left with the debt plus lots of interest, and they basically become our servants, our slaves. It’s an empire. There’s no two ways about it. It’s a huge empire. It’s been extremely successful.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/11/09/1526251

WalMart/Waltons- We stole from labor both domestically and under this Global Labor Arbitrage model. Here is Sam Walton again on loyalty to America’s workforce and families-

Wal-Mart founder Sam Walton once said, “I pay low wages. I can take advantage of that. We’re going to be successful, but the basis is a very low-wage, low-benefit model of employment.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Wal-Mart#_note-
iswalmartgood

“Is Wal-Mart Good for America?” PBS. November 16, 2004. Retrieved on February 24, 2007

The Waltons made billions in these scams off of labor- Here is where your wages and health care benefits went-

Samuel Robson (Rob) Walton (born 1945, in Tulsa, Oklahoma) is the eldest son of Sam Walton, founder of Wal-Mart, the world’s largest retailer. According to Forbes, his net worth is $16.7 billion as of 2007.

John Thomas Walton (October 8, 1946 - June 27, 2005) was a son of Wal-Mart founder Sam Walton.
Just before his death, Walton was estimated to be worth US$18.2 billion by Forbes magazine, and he was tied with his brother Jim as the 4th richest person in the United States and 11th-richest person in the world.

Jim Carr Walton (born 1948) is the youngest son of Wal-Mart founder Sam Walton.
With an estimated current net worth of around $16.8 billion, he is ranked by Forbes as the 23rd-richest person in world.

Alice Louise Walton (born October 7, 1949) is the daughter of Wal-Mart founder Sam Walton and Helen Walton, and sister of S. Robson Walton, John T. Walton (d.2005), and Jim Walton. She has an estimated net worth of about $16.6 billion.

Helen Robson Kemper Walton (December 3, 1919 - April 19, 2007) was the wife of Wal-Mart founder Sam Walton. She was the eleventh richest American and at one point the richest woman in the world. Helen died with an estimated net worth of $16.4 billion.

WalMart- We are not just impoverishment paying jobs! We are also about loan sharking and advanced payday loans to the working poor we need to keep available to operate our business model like Sam noted above. Need a loan to pay your rent sweetie? Try Nick with his economic ethics down at the strip club.

SDV claims that the Walton’s made their money off the backs of labor, right?  Then think about this, why doesn’t LABOR pool their money and start businesses so they too can create wealth for themselves?  Why doesn’t the union , do like Nick, I and others have suggested, and use the money they spend fighting Wal-Mart, to start a competeing business to benefit Labor?  Why does the SEIU want to change Wal-Mart for the better, when Wal-Mart competes with companies they represent?

You have to ask yourself these questions and seek logical answers, to see what the actual truth is!!  Could it be that the business model the anti Wal-Marter’s project, is distructive, so they wouldn’t touch it themselves, with a ten foot pole?  We all have seen what the results of unionization has done to other industries like the Textile Industry, Airline Industry, Steel Industry, Auto Industry, etc., why should Wal-Mart be the next, to be forced to take the path to destruction?

Once again, if that anti Wal-Mart business model is so great, why doesn’t Labor take advantage of it’s benefits?  Why push for the Waltons to make even more money, because if Wal-Mart succeeds, the Waltons benefit, right?

“SDV claims that the Walton’s made their money off the backs of labor, right?”
RDS in another piss poor propagandist effort-

You imbecile Sam Walton claimed it-

Wal-Mart founder Sam Walton once said, “I pay low wages. I can take advantage of that. We’re going to be successful, but the basis is a very low-wage, low-benefit model of employment.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Wal-Mart#_note-
iswalmartgood

“Is Wal-Mart Good for America?” PBS. November 16, 2004. Retrieved on February 24, 2007

This would include Global Labor Arbitrage, but that is economic practice and reality- while from you it is only a wild theory of embarrassment to be avoided with slobber distractions about the National Debt and personal expenditure models rather than TRADE DEFICIT and American manufacturing job loss.

“Once again, if that anti Wal-Mart business model is so great, why doesn’t Labor take advantage of it’s benefits?’
RDS in another ignorant evasion effort-

Answer: Labor does benefit under socially responsible business models like COSTCO and other union retailers paying far better wages with health care benefits having shown for many many years their success. Sam Walton with WalMart choose the labor exploitation model and the WalMart/Walton benefit continues at labor’s expense. Without labor WalMart would not exist.

“We all have seen what the results of unionization has done to other industries like the Textile Industry, Airline Industry, Steel Industry, Auto Industry, etc., why should Wal-Mart be the next, to be forced to take the path to destruction?”

We all saw how these American industries soared to great world prominence with union labor until trade policy was used to undermine a great success. Nobody was complaining about union labor when these industries were making American fortunes for their owners and the workers benefited very well all at the same time. The truth that frauds like RDS and Nick want to leave out. The ‘love of money’ propaganda defenders of exploitation will have dealings with those models that did and still do work very well. Psychopath corporations noted without social conscience to benefit labor who does all the work.

Explain to us RDS how the Waltons themselves earned all that money unloading trucks and cleaning floors and stocking shelves at $500,000 per hour.

WalMart/Waltons- ‘Living wages’? ‘Health care benefits’? We don’t understand? And we don’t want to either.

That should read… ‘no’ dealings with those models that did and still do work very well.

So “trade policy” undermined the airline industry?  I can’t wait to hear that logic. 

Me thinks SDV is putting out just another “piss poor propagandist effort”

So “trade policy” undermined the airline industry?  I can’t wait to hear that logic.

Me thinks SDV is putting out just another “piss poor propagandist effort”

Mary in
Tuesday, June 26 at 10:31 AM

Look at where much of the aircraft maintenance service contracts went- overseas- for cheaper labor costs.

Look at outsourcing for manufactured aircraft components by Boeing outside the United States.

Reality about the airline industry where you were wanting to avoid facts about the other industries noted.

You thought wrong. Again.

SanDiego-

What’s up, my man!  Thought you’d never show up!

I appreciate your new material, but don’t go ragging on Mary, she’s one of the good guys (gals).

Hope your 2nd shift last night went well and you’re over whatever’s eating you.

Jake

SDV,

“Labor does benefit under socially responsible business models like COSTCO and other union retailers paying far better wages with health care benefits having shown for many many years their success.”

And, yet, Wal-Mart remains #1, where do the others rank?  You have said that Costco has been around for 24 years, right?  Then why haven’t they even put a dent in Wal-Mart?  Wal-Mart continues to grow at a pace Costco can’t even match and Wal-Mart’s growth has even slowed!!

“You imbecile Sam Walton claimed it-”

Sam Walton also said that he wasn’t trying to make a fortune, he was just trying to be successful to keep prices lower for the benefit of consumers!!  His wealth, was just a byproduct of that success!!

“American manufacturing job loss”

This is a byproduct of not being able to compete, because of high wages in the U.S.!!  Business went to where the labor was cost was less!!

“ Nobody was complaining about union labor when these industries were making American fortunes for their owners and the workers benefited very well all at the same time.”

That’s kind of like saying that people weren’t complaining as the charged their credit cards to the limit, but now that they are at the top, they wonder why it costs a fortune in interest and they are so far in debt!!  Sure it was good on the charging part, but, now the bill is due and the companies can’t afford to pay it, ie: GM ‘legacy’ costs!!

“Explain to us RDS how the Waltons themselves earned all that money unloading trucks and cleaning floors and stocking shelves at $500,000 per hour.”

This may seem rational, to someone who believes that money can only go to those who do PHYSICAL labor!!  But, it is a fact, that MONEY can work also, if you don’t believe this, put about $5000.00 in the bank and see if it is still $5000.00 after a year, better yet, invest it in stock and see what happens!!  The Waltons worked when the stores first started, then they hired others to do the work after it became so big they couldn’t keep up with it, WHERE IS THAT A BAD THING?

“Look at where much of the aircraft maintenance service contracts went- overseas- for cheaper labor costs.”

See, even you admit that it was LABOR COST that is the cause of outsourcing!!  Explain to us, how making labor costs even higher, will bring back these contracts and stop others from leaving?

“Look at where much of the aircraft maintenance service contracts went- overseas- for cheaper labor costs.

Look at outsourcing for manufactured aircraft components by Boeing outside the United States.

Reality about the airline industry where you were wanting to avoid facts about the other industries noted. “

Again SDV, since you like to avoid the question, please tell us all how even these steps brought down the likes of Eastern, TWA, United, American and Continental airlines… all of whom either no longer exist or have faced severe bankruptcy issues?  Was it the “outsourcing” that caused their demise or their cost to produce their product vs. competitors who have beat them silly?

About the airline industry-

Boeing has sourced parts worth US$500 million from China between 1980 and 2004, forecast to hit $1.3 billion by 2010. Cheap labor and big sales prospects - the China dream - outweigh the troubles.

Outsourcing Our Safety, By Harold Meyerson

More surprising still was the news about JetBlue’s long-term maintenance of its aircraft. When the planes are inspected for damage and then reassembled, the work takes place either in Canada or El Salvador.

El Salvador?

When JetBlue first took to the air in 2000, rather than hire its own long-term maintenance department, the company subcontracted that work to Air Canada and the Central America-based TACA. It’s certainly cheaper: According to a Wall Street Journal story last January, the Salvadoran mechanics make $300 to $1,000 a month - far less than their U.S.-based counterparts. Roughly one-third of the Salvadoran mechanics have passed the exam that qualifies them for the Federal Aviation Administration’s license, while in the United States, such licenses are required for all mechanics employed directly by the airlines.

But such licensed, in-house mechanics are increasingly the exception at U.S. airlines. About half of the long-term maintenance on the planes of U.S. carriers is outsourced, and much of that work takes place overseas, where FAA inspections are a sometime thing. Indeed, the point of this story isn’t that JetBlue’s decisions are in any way exceptional. To the contrary, by going abroad for work that would previously have been performed at home (and except for maintenance, JetBlue doesn’t fly outside the United States), and by prioritizing costs over more closely inspected maintenance, the airline is an exemplar of 21st-century capitalism.

Outsourced Maintenance
Air Safety Week, Oct 3, 2005

The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) says there have been “133 recorded oversight activities” at the TACA maintenance facility in the past four years, of which 10 were conducted in June and one in July of this year. The FAA was unable to provide a qualitative assessment of the findings of those oversight activities by our press time. Recall that the Department of Transportation Inspector General recently expressed concerns about FAA oversight, particularly of overseas repair stations (see ASW, June 13).

January 21, 2005

Airlines, Facing Cost Pressure, Outsource Crucial Safety Tasks
Heavy Maintenance on Planes Entrusted to Contractors;
A Busy Hub in El Salvador
By SUSAN CAREY in Chicago and ALEX FRANGOS in Comalapa, El Salvador
Staff Reporters of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
Excerpts include-

As beleaguered U.S. airlines seek to cut costs, they are outsourcing a job that is crucial to passenger safety: long-term maintenance. While airlines continue to use their own mechanics for lighter maintenance between flights to ensure punctuality, half of U.S. carriers’ heavy-overhaul work is now performed by outside vendors in the U.S. and overseas. That’s up from less than a third in 1990, says consulting firm BACK Aviation Solutions in New Haven, Conn. The world-wide aircraft maintenance market is worth an estimated $37 billion annually.

In the late 1980s, General Electric, which produces about 35% of the world’s large commercial jet engines, had just three domestic shops that did engine-overhaul work for airlines. Today it has 17 facilities, half of them overseas in places like Brazil, Malaysia and Hungary. Revenues from spare engines, parts and maintenance, which stood at $3 billion a year in 1997, hit $5 billion in 2001 and, after an industry slump, are rising again, says Bill Fitzgerald, vice president of global operations for GE Aircraft Engine Services.

JetBlue, America West Airlines do maintenance in El Salvador. Northwest Airlines flies wide-body jets to Singapore and Hong Kong for service by outside contractors.

American Airlines never went into bankruptcy. They worked out a deal with the help of their unions.

UAL Corp.’s United Airlines, parked in bankruptcy-court protection for more than two years, won union assent to close two heavy-maintenance bases and outsource as much work as it wants to outside vendors. Currently, planes needing heavy checkups go to Timco Aviation Services Inc., Greensboro, N.C., and ST Mobile Aerospace Engineering Inc., Mobile, Ala. In a new contract being voted on by its shrinking mechanics union, United is seeking permission to send some already-outsourced work overseas.

continued

Airlines and maintenance labor contined-

You can still book a flight with Continental Airlines at- http://www.continental.com/web/en-US/default.aspx

Continental Airlines (NYSE: CAL) is a US certificated air carrier. Based in Houston, Texas, it is the fourth-largest airline in the U.S. and the eighth-largest in the world by revenue passenger miles.

Acquisition by Texas Air Corp.

In 1981 Texas Air Corporation, an airline holding company controlled by U.S. aviation entrepreneur and raider Frank Lorenzo, acquired Continental after a contentious battle with Continental’s management who were adamantly determined to resist Lorenzo. Continental’s labor unions also fiercely resisted, fearing what they termed as, “Lorenzo’s deregulation tactics.” In the end, Texas Air Corp. prevailed. Frank Lorenzo became Continental’s new Chairman and CEO. Texas International Airlines (TI), another Lorenzo holding, was merged into Continental Airlines in June 1982. TI ceased to exist and the “new Continental” relocated its headquarters to Texas Air’s base in Houston, Texas. The merger resulted in a large expansion of Continental’s hub at Houston Intercontinental Airport and its extensive routes to Mexico.

Airline unions fought Continental at every step. In the Federal courts, they unsuccessfully sued to stop the company’s reorganization. They were successful in working to persuade Congress to pass a new bankruptcy law preventing bankrupt companies from terminating contracts as Continental had successfully done. The law was too late to affect Continental and the drastic cost cutting and changes that had rescued it from liquidation.

First bankruptcy

Frank Lorenzo took Continental into Chapter 11 bankruptcy in September 1983 after extensive negotiations with labor unions proved unsuccessful. Continental imposed a series of new labor agreement on its union workers, sharply reducing the airline’s labor costs. This move made Continental vastly more competitive with the new airline startups then emerging and thriving in the southwestern U.S.

Much of the airline was liquidated and the company was rebranded as a low-cost carrier. Continental was also forced to abandon its hub in Los Angeles although it maintained its Denver and South Pacific routes. A more streamlined, leaner Continental emerged only a few days after the bankruptcy filing, a fact which gave Continental the distinction of being the first airline to fly through bankruptcy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_Airlines

Some airlines admit to concern about turnover at contractors. Continental Airlines, which farms out about 60% of its maintenance work excluding line maintenance at airports, says it pulled out of some third-party sites in the 1990s because of high turnover. Southwest, which has an excellent safety record, has done the same on occasion. “We don’t want transient labor on our aircraft,” says Jim Sokel, Southwest’s vice president of maintenance and engineering.

AMR Corp.’s American Airlines outsources only 20% of its maintenance. It keeps all of its heavy airframe checks in-house, says spokesman John Hotard, because it has “much more control over the whole repair process” and “a well-trained, seasoned work force.” Still, to vie with competitors getting the work done for less, he says, American is working with its mechanics union to reduce costs.

“The industry is losing its skills,” says John Goglia, a former mechanic who recently stepped down after nine years as a member of the National Transportation Safety Board.

Jennifer Biddle, a mechanic at United’s sprawling San Francisco maintenance base, was laid off in 2003 after eight years. She found a similar job in Oakland, Calif., for Alaska Airlines, only to lose that last September when Alaska shuttered its facility. Ms. Biddle, 39 years old, was a relatively junior mechanic although she held an FAA license gained after two years of schooling. She earned $63,000 a year at United before she was laid off.

She now works for a company that repairs laboratory equipment for the pharmaceutical and biotechnology industries, earning 30% less than she did at United. “I love airplanes,” she says. “I wish I was still working on airplanes.”

Mary, this subject requires reading and a basic knowledge of the industry. While you believe that United Airlines and Ameican Airlines don’t exist anymore, perhaps you also believe like Nick and RDS that smoking doesn’t cause cancer. Anyway, like WalMart your hostility to American labor is noted.

As Sam Walton noted-

Wal-Mart founder Sam Walton once said, “I pay low wages. I can take advantage of that. We’re going to be successful, but the basis is a very low-wage, low-benefit model of employment.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Wal-Mart#_note-
iswalmartgood

“Is Wal-Mart Good for America?” PBS. November 16, 2004. Retrieved on February 24, 2007.

And with that attitude against labor- enjoy your flight.

Mary,

So you don’t have to sort-through too much, here’s how the airline business has played-out since the 1980’s (from someone who was there):

Eastern - long gone (merged with Continental in the late 80’s)

TWA - gone - that airline went bankrupt and all assets (including the hubs at JFK and STL were immediately purchased by American Airlines).  Shortly after the AA takeover, over 5K ex-TWA employees in St. Louis, alone lost their jobs, and to this day, the former “D” concourse, at STL remains something of a ghost town.

United - recently emerged from Chapter 11 bankruptcy (along with fellow legacy carriers Delta and Northwest).

American - surprisingly of the legacy carriers, never declared bankruptcy post-9/11, although they did come very close.

Continental - still flying, and unlike the 80’s incarnation, is a more efficient carrier, today.  Much of their success can be attributed to the airline’s exclusive rights to key routes in the South Pacific.

As with Wal-Mart offering a lower price for the same item that a competitor is selling, in today’s economy, consumers are simply not willing to pay exorbitant fares for “average” service, at best.  While I have no doubt most of our “legacy” U.S.-based carriers will be around for some time, the ones to continue to watch will be Frontier, AirTran, and, of course, Southwest.

Hope this helped, as SanDiegoView got a little long-winded.