New Study Examines Wal-Mart’s Effect On Poverty Rates

I did a google search on Stephan Goetz.I I found a number of articles of Stephan Goetz and a number of criticisms of Stephan Goetz. The article quoted by WMW was impossible to obtain directly without paying for it. Many times, however, you can obtain the same article free by Googling.

Stephan Goetz has criticized WM a number of times. It appears to be a hot button issue with him. When he uses the term “Walmart” he treats it as a dirty word. This may be fine for WMW, however, it taints his research.

In the article quoted, the numbers are pretty small, spite of the 40,000 quoted by WMW. If you take the Goetz as face value it means that if there are 1000 people in poverty, 28 would have came out of poverty without WM, but only 2 came out of poverty with WM. However there is some indication that the Goetz analysis is flawed. See the following link: http://divisionoflabour.com/archives/001268.php. The article is a bit longer, but it is summarized in one paragraph:

“I found the underlying paper here; I haven’t yet given it a careful read but a quick skimming already finds a problem with the passage in CSM. The sentence reporting “the national poverty rate dropped 2.4% between 1990 and 2000, the rate fell by just 0.2% on average in counties that added a Wal-Mart” is incorrect. The study finds that the marginal effect of an additional Wal-Mart is 0.2 percentage points not the 2.2 (=2.4-0.2) percentage points impied in the quoted sentence.”

“In other words, the effect on the national poverty rate by Walmart is insignificant. Then in addition, when you figure in that Walmart has slowed the inflation rate, the net result is a benefit because the income requirements for the poverty level has gone up and even more would have fell below the poverty level.”

In addition there is another problem. The Goetz analysis was done on a by county basis. He compared poverty levels of counties with WMs with counties without WMs. First there is a basic flaw with that analysis. Most counties in the US, have a WM. Anytime, you perform an analysis which compares a group which is within the norm against a group outside of the norm you have to be very careful because there was a reason for the one group being out of “norm” to start with. In other words, there may be other reasons for the changes in poverty level besides WM. For example, there are many reasons for not having a WM in a particular county. One is that the there are so few people because it is rural. Another is that the county is so poor, that any new business is apt to be unprofitable. Another is that it is a very affluent or very unique area in which they are trying to preserve a particular image. I would expect that the poverty and changes in poverty in these instances to be very different from the general population.

Another problem is that the poverty level is not determined on a county basis. It is a number established by the government for a region. Just the fact that a WM is in the county will reduce the cost of living and that artificial number established by the government is no longer representative.

There is an article in the CSM which can be googled: Who profits from rock-bottom pricing? By Jeffrey MacDonald. A few quotes out of that article. “In the early 1990s, business owners on the island of Kodiak, Alaska, hired a consultant to analyze how much they’d be hurt by a proposed Wal-Mart. But in gathering data at their request, Kenneth Stone also discovered how the store was apt to help another local group: the poor.”

“A lot of low-income people were practically begging the city to let Wal-Mart in,” says Dr. Stone, an Iowa State University emeritus economist and 20-year researcher on Wal-Mart’s national impact. “They were saying, ‘We have to do something to lower our cost of living....’ I believe that the lower prices do allow for a higher standard of living for low-income people.”

The article by MacDonald is balanced. It presents both sides of the equation, unlike WMW.

Paul

Thanks for another long boring post Paul.
If I can’t sleep tonight, I will use your article to put myself to sleep.

Speaking of boring....the guy that writes all the garbage with the double spacing. Go get a head doctor who can lock you up.

i agree with JM.  Paul, I think you should get a life so you’re not write “War and Peace” length posts.

Well, obviously, Wal-Mart is not the only reason for poverty in an area, I’m sure we all know this.  However, you can’t deny that it’s a significant factor.

from the study - “we find that the presence of Wal-Mart was unequivocally associated with smaller reductions in family-poverty rates in U.S. counties during the 1990s relative to places that had no stores”

It is a well-known logical fallacy to say that, because A and B are true, A must be causing B.”

“the possibility of monopolies or oligopolies emerging in retailing (both on the input and output side) needs to be considered carefully by public policymakers”

Only if the definition of “oligarchy” is stretched to mean thousands of companies.

anonymouse said: “kill Missouwi”

Ah. Elmer Fudd is heard from again, and this time he really HATES the show-me state!

J.M.  I sure wouldnt want you to be bored.  I will summarize.  The study is flawed and means nothing.  If you want to understand why, you will just have to be bored.

Generic.  I have yet to see proof, that Walmart is reponsible for any poverty in an area.

Paul, I’m sure you know how to put 2 and 2 together.

Except, as Paul showed, the study does not “add up”.

Thank you, Paul, for your careful and “long” analysis.  As someone who would like to understand the issue a bit, I found it useful and informative.  You point to facts about the issue rather than making rude personal attacks on other writers.  Keep up the good work.

Cmon, Paul… time to take out the garbage. Quit playing on that wal-mart site.

I know your not my Mom.  My dear departed sainted mouther went to the big Walmart in the sky many years ago.

Even though the last posting by “Paul” was pretty cute, it was not me.  My mother is still alive and well.

Hey Grateful
When someone bores you to death like Paul does, I consider that an attack too.

Paul, how many times have we told you to quit playing on this site and go work for wal-mart?

Paul would probably refuse to work for the wage and benefit package that Wal-Mart provides.
He is probably some business owner that likes the “winner takes all” companies.

Paul (whereever you are)

I agree with your long post completely.  I also did a fair
amount of research on the article and it goes back several
years ago to an agricultural group, not really a current
presentation, except being out again for publication.

Truthfully, I got “bored” with trying to do any more research,
for the article is not one that you can read easily and I only
read excerpts for I also would not pay for the entire article.

I am certain JM and almost 99% of those who post on here will not read and have no idea what the main article is about, but will gladly blast Wal-Mart .

As much as I appreciate WMW allowing us to freely post on
this site, I do believe they hurt their cause by putting blogs
out such as this one.  The slant is completely wrong.

Might add that after much investigation into the “eminent
domain” issue on another blog—the facts were very much
skewed and WMW should be ashamed of that.  Incidently
JM you were quick to fault me, so I will again state what
I said some time ago.  Find one thing that I posted that was
incorrect and I will donate $50.00 to the charity of your choice.  Regardless all have a blessed day.

Nice twist so called “knowledgeable”
You made a comment about things I did not say and added things I did not say. I asked you to show me where those comments were posted. You did not, which is fine because a lot of what is written by WM supporters on here is not worth challenging. Now you turn it around to suggest that what you said was the focus suggesting a $50.00 donation if proved wrong.
Nice twisting.

Your not the brightest crayon in the box.

Very well.... the world lies on the hands of the original snake.. money, popularity,stars .. these are dirty dreams..
mone,money,money.. who is the man ? who is the Nature?
In ltaly there are a similar bad conditions..
very very dangerous… wath are we doing ?
we are crazy… This is the end of this system..
hey man awake.. don’t you have two masters.. the god is light and the dragon is dark..dont’ mess with doctor dream.
awake! In Italy..  the official poverty line is in expansion.
day after day.. Cause of this ? Mrs Scrooge and theirs brothers...? The seven sisters ? The global market ? Mrs Bush ? Berlusconi ? I don’t know.... but the onesty is very important also because, according to an acient saying..each man are fantastic and unicum.. Who are you for destroyed myself ?  (I’m sorry for my english)… bye bye
No war, no holism, NO !

lorenzo,

There is no need to apologize for your English. Your communication is better than many of us here.

JM (your post 5/22)

It’s time to quit the crap that you write, let’s get to the point.

1. What did I twist?  Be specific.
2. quote “you made a comment about things I did not say and added things I did not say” Tell me what I commented
about, that you did not say or what I added that you did not
say” I did say “I am certain that JM ... will not read ...”

Now did you read the entire article by Stephen Goetz at thet the time of your post?  The entire article, not excerpts --
if you did at that time, yes I will donate the $50 to your
charity of choice.

No “twisting”—I will take your word if you state on here that you did read the entire article prior to your post.

Note:  If you have reference to the eminent domain issue,
please read the articles in the Orlando Sentinal and also in the South Floorida Sun-Sentinel.

Regardless JM have a blessed day for a change—let me also say I am NOT a Wal-Mart supporter, nor a union baster of WM—as I write - it is Knowledgeable information, based on fact and if conjecture, it is so stated.

Why not back up your own allegations first?

JM (your post @6:45PM)

Again a most “brilliant” post from a most un-knowledgeable
person.  However I will glady accomodate but first I need
to know (and everyone else who reads on here needs to also know) ---------

What allegations do you want me to back up????
I don’t recall posting any allegations, as such.

Make it easy on yourself—just give me one allegation -
but if you have more, I will answer.

“Incidently JM you were quick to fault me, so I will again state what I said some time ago. Find one thing that I posted that was incorrect and I will donate $50.00 to the charity of your choice”.
There you go. I don’t think that anything was said to you in this post. It was Paul. Unless you are the same person as Paul (are you posting as two people?) what you write about does not jive or make any sense.
By the way, if you want to donate, then do it. Your money has nothing to do with me.

JM

When you finish your schooling again write on here and I
will hope I can understand it.  Since you don’t have your
degree as yet it would be best to finish school.  I am not
sure what you are majoring it, but give it more effort and
forgot trying to promote WMW—you don’t help their cause.

Also study as much history and economics as you can --
don’t necessarily believe everything your professor says,
but do your own research. 

Do have a blessed day, young soul.

Once again you don’t answer (which is fine, I could care less about your opinion). Instead you give a lecture about some other subject.