Person of the Week: Chicago Alderman Joe Moore

I mentioned this New York Times article a few days ago and I think it is a very good bill. Good work by Mr. Moore.

I am willing to bet that if this passes the city council it will
not be upheld in the Illinois Supreme Court (naturally depending upon an outcome in the circuit court)

Sorry, Larry it is not a good bill—go back and read history!!

I read alot about the living wage.  What exactly is this amount?  Whatever it is, I am under it.  I can barely make it.  And I work for my local government office.

No is no such thing as a living wage --what one needs another might not.  It is something instigated by the government to keep control of us “sheeple”

Did people live and survive 50 or l00 yrs ago?

Join fair tax and get the IRS out of your life. www.fairtax.org

No, No, No, there is no such thing as a living wage. If you read history you’ll find that knowledgeable is right. You don’t have to pay the people who work for you anything. You ever hear of slavery? Good thing! Right, Knowledgeable?

Larry

I moved our previous discussion to this subject.  The “Jane” subject was about to expire.

I am disappointed in your response. Rather than just saying “there is a note of hysteria in the way you express yourself sometimes.” It would be more useful if you pointed out the points where you think I am wrong.

You said “As for the Maryland bill---again where do you get these millions from? Are they 1-2-3-100-200 million?”

WALMART WATCH SAID THE SEIU WAS SPENDING MILLIONS. Since we are apparently not connecting on this, I will go through it a step at a time. It probably covers things you already know, but that is the only way I know to convince you.

Go to the Home Page for this site. Look under About Us. Under that you will find that this site is funded by The Center for Community & Corporate Ethics who is in turn funded by the SEIU among others including a number of other unions. You will also find that Andy Stern is listed on the Board of Directors of the The Center for Community & Corporate Ethics.

Go to the following WMW link
http://walmartwatch.com/blog/archives/60_minutes_airs_andy_stern_profile/

In that link you will find the following words: “But Stern is also known as a street fighter and will use hardball tactics, against companies such as Wal-Mart. Stern may cozy up to some companies, but nothing gets his blood boiling more than Wal-Mart. Stern says he’s not trying to unionize Wal-Mart — at least not yet. He just wants the retailer to pay what he considers a fair share of its employees’ healthcare. So last year he spent MILLIONS IN UNION MONEY to push through legislation in Maryland that forced Wal-Mart to spend eight percent of its payroll on healthcare. Now he’s going after the company in 30 other states.”

The above is a direct copy and paste. There is no editing except where I captialized “MILLIONS IN UNION MONEY”. I do not know how many millions because it was not in the quote. If you have an urgent desire to learn exactly how many millions, then you should ask Andy Stern or WMW.  Also notice that he did not say that he had spent millions of Andy Stern’s money or millions of The Center for Community & Corporate Ethics’ money. It was union money.

To the best of my knowledge, I have never said that this site cost millions.

Very good Paul. So they spent 2 million or more in Maryland. And? WM spent nothing? Actually WM paid off Gov. Erlich who used his power to veto previous legislation to this concerning WM. A very unpopular move not only with the legislature but in the eyes of the public. FWIW that’s politics these days. And if you’re going to ask me who’s side I’m on I will say anti-WM--anti-democratic and anti-republican party. I’m not the one throwing around money and saying it’s right but if you think that WM should be the only one you’re wrong.

A long time ago arguing with Nick from Wheeling--arguments that went on and on and on--he was another that would say that a union has no right to spend their money in the political power game--his main argument being that many union members were republican and didn’t want their money going to people they were voting against. An interesting point of view IMO from someone who called himself a libertarian. Of course we all realize (or should realize) the advantages money can have in an election whether it has to do with real qualifications of those to be elected or not. He had no problem with a company such as GE (for that matter why don’t we just use ENRON) dumping tons of money into the campaigns of those they favored knowing full well that they would pay back these benefactors later on and not worrying at all whether those who work for those firms all voted for their candidates or not---so to me there’s no real solution there unless you want to (and I would like this) give candidates an alloted amount to fund their campaigns and no more. Take union money out, take corporation money out, take religious crank money out---boot the moneychangers (lobbyists) out of the temple (halls of congress including the Rayburn building--apparently it’s okay for the NSA to keep track of our every move but the refrigerator of a congressman at his workplace is off limits) allow them to raise their money from the populace (or voters--after all WM or the SEIU for that matter is a thing and is not allowed to vote) and limit that even. Maybe we can agree on this?

How does this affect WM?  There are NO WAL-MARTS in Chicago.

What a joke.

In the Buffalo News, they had an article called” Wal-Mart’s meeting is a pep rally.”

The article wrote the following about the shareholders meeting:

The session kicked off with a Broadway style musical featuring one worker tutoring her colleague “Dennis” in the art of customer service and a dancer who assures Wal-Mart workers that they are all stars and can all succeed at the company.
In another musical number, dancers some in trademark blue Wal-Mart smocks, chanted “It’s all about the customer” and clapped to a gospel-inflected singer.
Taylor Hicks, the recent American Idol winner, and singer Beyonce Knowles also performed.

So the shareholder concert/pep rally/meeting was a lot of empty entertainment by those who want to sell a shit load of cds (better perform at the WM meeting so they will promote our music).
And what about this “[Wal-Mart workers] are all stars”?
Where did that come from? You WM supporters who blog on this site had better get on the same page as home office.  According to you guys WM workers are low lifes that need to get a real job! That’s why they don’t deserve a living wage.

Big T, it looks like all the shareholders proposals got voted down. Not surprising since 40% of the voting comes off the top by the Walton family members. Looks like Lee will have the big big bucks for another year.

Alway, Always Well Paid.

Always, Always well deserved. 

Thats going to set a few of you off.

JM,
What wal-mart workers are not earning a living wage, and please tell me what they should be making.  How much per hour?

American citizens with total security.

1. 9 dollar per hour minimum wage.
2.  Universal healthcare.
3.  Total border security.
4.  Immigration - noone leaves - 6 year path to citizenship.
5.  Welfare reform.
6.  Fema integrated with a republican version of Roosevelts America works first program.
7.  7 year graduated illimation of the IRS and total end-point of state taxes only sent to the federal government 72% based solely upon census data; the remainder discretionary.
8.  Immediate overhaul of the VA.
9.  Do 1 through 8; and let Washington play - people really won’t care.
10.  Reincorporation of historical allies into a reinvigorated Nato Alliance with 7 additional players.
11.  Litigation reform; ala caps/stipends/good sense.
12.  Open Anwar
13.  5 billion dollar tax (windfall tax) on oil companies averaged on a five-year basis; with the ability to recoup that tax commiserate with new-fuels implentation.
14.  P.S. - walmart’s got it right - 384 experimental fuels stations - more can be done with they’re own grease (minus disposal fee) than California can do with $15 billion dollars.
15.  Permanent implementation of the 15% capital gains tax.

“The bill would affect only stores that have at least 75,000 square feet and are operated by companies with at least $1 billion in annual sales, allowing smaller retailers to continue with the state minimum wage of $6.50 an hour.”

This is a load of hooey. If you’re going to pass so called “living wage” legislation it should be across the board not just for major national retailers. Smaller local retailers should also be required to pay these “living” wages to their employees. After all WMW talks about being equitable in all things right? So the only truly equitable thing to do is to require even mom and pop retailers to pay the same wage including the benefits package. If the small retailers refuse or complain about having to pay, then they are not being equitable.  I guess the people proposing this bill don’t think employees in smaller businesses should receive these so called “living wages” since they state that smaller companies may continue to pay the minimum wage of $6.50 hr. People gimme a break. Clearly this only purpose of this legislation is to penalize large corps. Otherwise all workers would be able to benefit from it. Nice try but I ain’t buyin it.  ;-)

A smaller local retailer Wonders might not really be able to afford it. Not that it seems that you care. WM brings in billions in profits every year and continues to underpay their workers in terms of not only pay but benefits. They can afford it but aren’t interested either. In any case these are whether you like it or not most often two different kinds of situations. And small retailers aren’t likely to have such big stores. Small retailers sometimes get by on specialty items that the likes of WM might not want to touch. By the way maybe you could point out to us where WMW has talked about this equitability in the way you say they have?

So what you’re essentially saying is you want to penalize large corps not because it’s fair or equitable but because you can? The point is not wheter a company has the ability to pay, but if they have an obligation. Presumably every worker has the right to this as yet to be determined “living wage”.  It would seem that if all workers should be granted the inalienable right to a living wage, that all employers must be obligated to their employees and the excuse that small retailers cannot afford to pay such wages is exactly that an excuse. You people wanna have your cake and eat it too. You claim every person is entitled to a fair wage. Yet if that fair wage comes out of the pocket of a self employed small business owner then you cry foul and say that he shouldn’t be subject to the same rules.

Well then we would have to set a new standard for what is a living wage and force employers to comply Wonders. I have no problem with that. Real wage earnings by american workers have been dropping for quite a while. It is not helped by the minimum wage making no headway at all. I also have no problem with corporations such as the one we’re discussing here that do make large profits being made to do better by their workforce. And as far as the point being whether or not they have the ability to pay more (they do) or whether they have an obligation (they should)--that is your rationale not mine. In any case part of my rationale would be not to favor large retailers who can afford over small retailers who can’t just knocking the small out of business to the benefit of the large. You might not like that but strictly interpreting something to the point where it does needless damage to the fabric of our society is inane.

Does Lee Scott and the executives make a “living wage”?
Do they need government aid when it comes to health care?
Do they do janitorial work at home office so they have some physical activity with their job?

Finally they thought in terms of economy and overall standard of the country. The earlier decision to make their own homes on the ruins of others was simply a cowardly decision. I think Joe Moore has made an intelligent talk.

Now I can feed myself and my habit...HICCUP…

Knowledgeable, what you’re not realizing is that it’s easier to keep the sheeple in line by concentrating wealth (and thus power) into fewer and fewer hands.  Massive extremes of inequality of wealth is incompatible with democracy and freedom, but goes along nicely with despotism.  This idea that a fair wage is just big brother infringing on freedom is nonsense and is used as a justification for greed. 

Also, the “Well, just what IS a living wage?  Some people are only satisfied with designer clothing and expensive wine.” is also a ludicrous argument.  If you can barely afford basic necessities like housing and have to live off of low-grade toxic food devoid of nutrients, than this is not a living wage.  If you have to have a job to have a car so you can have a job so you......than that is not a living wage.  A living wage is one that should enable you to afford the basics and pay bills, and still have some left over for leisure or to save, or whatever.  That’s a living wage, not one in which I’m afraid that I won’t be able to pay the rent AND buy food this month.  As for small business owners, give them a TAX BREAK to offset the cost of paying employees.

Generic (your post 6/10)
“as for small business owners, give them a TAX BREAk to offset the cost of paying employees”

Interesting: what type of tax break do we give them?  How much are they supposed to pay the employees to warrant the tax break?  How many employees could the small business owner have and meet your criteria??

Thanks,

Joe Moore is off-base with his Wal-Mart activities. He’s been allowing himself to be used by national Democrats to throw these trial balloons up, Wal-Mart being one, his foie gras ban for another. These are distractions, as far as I’m concerned.

The problem is that he’s been neglecting the basics at home. He screwed over a local group that was trying to provide local job training, dropped the ball on a threatened landfill on our lakefront, and uses his membership on the City’s healthcare committee to accomplish jack squat. This ward is federally recognized as “medically underserved,” and we have some of the least access to medical care in the City.

If Joe wants to fight with Wal-Mart, let him go ahead and do so, but he should tend to matters at home first. I keep a running watch on him and his crew at my blog.

I forgot to post the link to the skinny on Joe’s foie gras ban, including this hilarious picture.

Now I’ll write three.

Years from now -
the fifteen point solution will be taught.
in many classes.

English, literary, and everywhere.
Why - didn’t they listen?
Who knew.

Through hardship;
through reality;
through longevity.

Who knew?