Person of the Week: Costco CEO Jim Sinegal

Yes--we’ve talked about him here in the past and I have to say he does a lot for his workers-- at least a whole lot more than WM does. I would much prefer them in our area.

Walmart has shut down Target, Kmart and Garden Ridge Pottery not to mention grocery stores in my area. I have to endure 3 Super Wal-marts in a 5 mile radius! I drive 30 miles out of my way to shop at Costco and encourage everyone I know to do the same.

It’s refreshing to deal with cheerful employees rather than the throngs of functionally illiterate indentured servants at Walmart. It’s good to know there are a few individuals who care about mankind instead of surrendering to soul sucking corporate whoredom.

Once all the American jobs are outsourced and Illegal Aliens take the rest of the country over nobody will be buying anything from Walmart. They will be liberating it like they did in New Orleans.

Quincy sez: “Walmart has shut down Target, Kmart and Garden Ridge Pottery “

Is this true? Did Wal-Mart actually buy these and then decide to shut them down? It seems much more likely that your claim is not true: the 3 companies running those stores/outlets shut them down (not Wal-Mart). Looks like something you made up for effect.

Quincy sez: “throngs of functionally illiterate indentured servants at Walmart.”

If you look at the definition of indentured servants, you will find that Wal-Mart employs none. The “functionally illiterate” claim does not wash, either: such would not be able to complete Wal-Mart’s application process. Taken together, the two false claims are a big insult against Wal-Mart workers.

That’s three big lies in one message. In the rest of it, you vent a racist fear of “illegal aliens” and of a future we are moving away from (outsourcing all American jobs....when in reality the number of jobs inside America is growing).

Quincy says:  I have to endure 3 Super Wal-marts in a 5 mile radius!

If you would please provide me a zip code where I can find these three super walmarts within a 5 mile radius. Fact- I have NEVER seen 3 of any company located in a 5 mile radius, not even a gas station, so I would like to know where Walmart put 3 of them together like that.

As for walmart putting Kmart out of business kmart did that all by themselves. I know when I moved to Mississippi I was an avid Kmart shopper, (in fact I refused to shop at Walmart in Illinois) but it didn’t take long before I was shopping at walmart because kmarts service was horrid, the employees had bad attitudes, the return policy was impossible, the store was filthy and cramped, the quality of the merchandise was less then sub-standard, and they never had more then one or two registers opened.
Funny I hadn’t heard of any Targets being closed down I’ll have to investigate that when you post that zip code. In our area Target is expanding. Odd thing is their latest store is located directly across the street from a walmart super store.

Finally I really have to ask how it is that everyone keeps comparing walmart to Costco? I saw it mentioned so often I went to their website to check them out. Costco doesn’t have one tenth the number of stores that Walmart has. Heck Costco doesn’t have as many stores as Walmart is opening next year. Even the huge state of texas only has 12 costco’s. It is ever so obvious that the reason that Costco can pay so much and still make a profit is because they only locate themselves in areas with a high cost of living. Costco and Walmart/Sams club are not in the same business. Walmart/Sams club locates themselves where the average joe lives works and shops, Costco is only located where the upper class works, lives and shops. Comparing Walmart/sams club to costco is like comparing Macy’s to Sears.

This is to Lori, our friend from the south. I don’t know if you have heard of a company called Starbucks, but let me tell you about them They have stores on opposite street corners. So while you may not know of a store that has 3 in a 5 mile radius, meet Starbucks, they have about 15 in a 5 mile square radius. And Mcdonald’s in NYC. that would be New York City, you probably never get up there because you are so busy shopping at Wal-Mart and praying to Jesus. Wake up you close minded conservative. Fuck Wal Mart.

To David in San Luis:

Great Post!!

David in San Luis - I guess that you think comparing Starbucks and McDonald’s to Wal-Mart is comparing equals.  What size and cost to build, is a Starbucks or McDonalds compared to a Wal-Mart Supercenter.  In NYC, you can probably find 3 Hot Dog venders within a 5 mile radius, would that be fair to compare them to Wal-Mart.

Besides, how many idiots does it take to fill 3 Starbucks stores and pay what they do for a cup of coffee?

Quincy Marley wrote:

“ It’s refreshing to deal with cheerful employees rather than the throngs of functionally illiterate indentured servants at Walmart. “

All of you Wal-Mart employees remember this!!  It is exactly what the union thinks of you and is why they want to represent you, because they think you are too ignorant to do it for yourselves.

Quincy Marley wrote:

I drive 30 miles out of my way to shop at Costco and encourage everyone I know to do the same. “

By the way, I may want to check out Costco.  How far would I have to drive to get to one?  And, how many Wal-Marts and Sams Clubs would I have to pass on the way?  Are you saying, it would be worth it?  I think not!!

To Robert in Arkansas -

We don’t all live in Walmartville, like you do.  I would have to drive past several Costcos to get to a Walmart - and I hope it stays that way.

Lori,

Are you crazy?  Type in the zip code of 89121 in Las Vegas.  You’ll see that there are several places in just that one area where Walmart has clustered MORE than three stores in a 5-mile radius.  You may be confused because Mississippi is so rural and low density, but in higher density areas, Walmart crams as many stores as they can into one area. 

And your other claim that not even gas stations or any other stores do it, check out ANY chain store that does business in a dense urban area like New York or San Francisco - take Walgreens in SF, just see how many they can cram into a 5 mile radius - 30, maybe 40.

Lori,

Higher cost of living does not equate to upper income classes - if you believe that, tell all 37 million Californians that they are upper income.  Costco only has a few stores in Texas because they are only a little over twenty years old and much earlier in their growth cycle than Walmart.  Check and see how many stores they have in their first markets of Washington and California.  Also, Costco does a much higher volume per store than a Sam’s Club, so they don’t need as many stores.

May Costco stay small. The bad way they treat their workers is not very good.

Chris wrote:

“ To Robert in Arkansas -

We don’t all live in Walmartville, like you do.  I would have to drive past several Costcos to get to a Walmart - and I hope it stays that way. “

That is fine for you, shop where you like, but, don’t try to stop one store chain in favor of another.  The point I was trying to make, is that if Costco is so good, and a group was trying to keep it from expanding, is it good for anyone that it is not being allowed to be built?  Would it be good for all concerned, if people are not being allowed to shop at a Costco, unless they are willing to drive 150 miles to do so?

By the way, is Costco, a unionized store?

Frank wrote:

“ Walmart crams as many stores as they can into one area. “

First, Wal-Mart and any other business only builds as many stores as shopping traffic will allow, to do otherwise would be poor management.  Next, with more stores in a densely populated area, the problems of customers running over each other during ‘sales’, is lessened.

To Robert -

Costco is not unionized.  And I’m not trying to stop one chain in favor of another - I’m trying to encourage one chain to adopt some of the habits of another.  I have a lot of problems with Costco as well - they are nearly as bad as Walmart on contributing to urban sprawl.  If Walmart wants to crack the urban markets of California, New York, and other areas, they’re going to have to start building some stores that do not follow the typical design, much as Target has done.  Multiple stories, walkup entrances, doors fronting the street, underground or rooftop parking.

On the other point you made to Frank, you’re correct.  I think he was responding to Lori’s remark that no chain builds three stores in a five mile radius, which is blatantly false.

Mr. Senigal might be a nice person but some of his managers are not.  My son was out sick with Mono under a Drs, care and sent in his Drs. note that he was not to work due to complications from the Mono and they are threatening to fire him.  He followed procedure and brought in a Drs. note, but this is being ignored.  He was also given disability by his Ins. Co, so tell me waht is wrong here.  The Asst. Managers and the Manager at the Costco store in Kennesaw, GA. are JERKS.

I think we’d have to know the full story, Margaret.  For example, did he call to say he wasn’t going to be there, or come in with the doctor’s note after the fact?  Has he had attendance problems before?  The list goes on and on.  I’m sure the managers have the same problem as managers everywhere - a large number of people are irresponsible and make their jobs hell because of it, so sometimes they play hardball with someone who has legitimate problems - out of frustration or because they suspect shenanigans.

Chris in SF: About 18% of Costco’s workers are forced into unions. Typically, this means that if you want to work in a certain job category, you have to pay dues or you won’t be able to work in this category. Those who are already working in this job category prior to the union bullying itself into the workplace might face being fired if they refuse to enrich the union bosses.

Are these workers being denied a chance at this type of job, or are they being fired from it because they aren’t qualified or they aren’t doing the job as well as others? No. The reason they are kept out is because they would rather keep their own money than turn it over to the union bosses.

That’s a lousy thing to do to the workers, especially when the union that bullies Costco workers is so ofen the Teamsters. Costco should do a better job at protecting its workers from them.

This requiring of a large number of its workers to belong to non-job-related organizations is the reason I won’t support Costco.

I think that most people are really missing the entire point. Whether it be Costco, Wal-Mart, K-Mart, Target or any other in an evergrowing list of chain stores, people need to start to shop local or there will be the same abuses everywhere. I have not shopped or stepped foot in a chain store since 1993. I only make around 15,000 a year which i have to support me and my toddler. I think the real problem is that Americans are setting a poor example for the rest of the world with this disease that causes us to consume at a pace that is alarming. I am not ENTITLED to get a 3 gallon container of shampoo for less.
I live in rural america and do pray to Jesus, I am guessing this makes me less educated than the rest of the world. The small town I live in and also the surrounding towns have ben decimated indirectly by the Wal-Marts of the world. The lack of locally owned businesses leaves very few skilled or well paying jobs out here. Everytime i see the pictures of the graduating classes in the newspaper, I am confronted with the list of bright young people that must go elsewhere to make a living because Mom and Dad had nothing to pass on to them. It is a domino effect, less taxpayers means less taxes to pay for schools that are eventually going to put out inferior workers for the workplace.
How dare any of us burn the unions of this world either. If it were not for the labor unions we would have seen this decline back at the turn of the 20th century. I am not union, but I see where a well trained, standardized workforce can be used to insure quality in everything we consume or use. Unions get a bad kick because everyone sees the guy making 20+ an hour to lean on his shovel. That is such a small percentage of the union people I know. I am sure that if we all think about it we have seen this scenario with just about every ununionized group form walgreens employees to the sad excuses for lousy waitresses out there who believe they are entitled to their tip because they had the gumption to show up.
As far as benefits go. Lawyers all over the world make a damn fine living convicing people that life should be fair for everyone. As every adult out there should know, life is not fair and bad things happen to good people. Doctors are humans, they do make mistakes occasionally. Suing a doctor for unrealistic amounts has driven up healthcare costs. These poor dedicated people are being squeezed form all sides. I do believe they should be held accountable for their actions, but lets all be realistic.
I guess to summarize, greed is a cancer and we all should try to eliminate it like the disease it is.

David in San Luis Obispo, CA

This is to Lori, our friend from the south. I don’t know if you have heard of a company called Starbucks, but let me tell you about them They have stores on opposite street corners.

You know believe it or not even us hicks from the sticks down here in the backwoods of mississippi have heard of starbucks. I didn’t say it never happened I said I had never seen it which is why I asked for a zip code! Believe it or not we have Mcdonalds down here too but you know what I would be hard pressed to find even two of them within 5 miles of each other and since I have also lived in Illinois and Missouri I can also say I have not seen it in the areas I lived in there either. But then I don’t live in areas where everyone lives on top of each other I chose to live in a place where we can breath fresh air.

and Frank in Las Vegas, NV

I did put in the zip code you gave me. Yes there are alot of Walmarts there and upon measuring there are a couple of places where it looks like give or take as the crow flies you can get three into a five mile radius, using their mileage scale. As I already stated if you read what I wrote a direct quote from my post:
Fact- I have NEVER seen 3 of any company located in a 5 mile radius, not even a gas station, so I would like to know where Walmart put 3 of them together like that.

I at no point said it never happened I said I have never seen it and asked for the zip code so I could check it out. I was just looking to varify facts and had I known that it was going to be such an offensive task I would not have asked. I guess when you have a million people living in a square mile you live a different life then those of us that prefer to see the stars in the sky and have live trees in our back yard.

And I guess the thing about Costco is I can’t compare it to Walmart. First of all they don’t even have a store I could check out, Second I’m not going to pay an anual fee to shop anyplace (no not even sams club), and finally I since Costco is a small company that doesn’t even have a store in the entire state of mississippi and Walmart finds us important enough to put several stores in our area I guess I’ll just have to stick with the company that believes even small towns need affordable prices.

About 19% of Costco workers are union. It’s a little disingenuos to say that Costco forces a select group of them to join a union. You might want to look into that a little bit further JC. To comment on your other post about Costco mistreating its workers. The average Costco worker makes $16 something an hour and has real benefits. Do you consider that abuse as opposed to what WM does?--or are you just saying something to just say something at all?

I think that no matter where a person works, they shouldn’t have to pay a union to speak up for them.  Unions talk about high healthcare at Wal-Mart, what do they think that paying them to is going to help.  I know from experience that unions talk big until they get their foot in the door and then all they do is party and have a good time at the people’s expense.  They claim they try to come to a good contract for the people but I never saw that happen and I was a union member for 13 years.  ALL UNIONS WANT IS THE BIG MONEY THEY WOULD MAKE OFF A MILLION ASSOCIATES AT WAL-MART.  Well, this is one associate that you will never get a penny from.........................

Lori in MS,

Perhaps you don’t know what “five mile radius” means.  That means that if you stand in one place, everything within five miles would be included, in all directions.  Typing in 89121 in the Walmart store locator, it looks like there are areas where there are more than 10 Walmarts in a five mie radius.

Using the San Francisco example of Walgreens, the ENTIRE city of San Francisco is within a five mile radius of the center.

I’m glad that you think you’re better than everyone because you can see stars and have live trees, but I’m sure glad that everyone in the US is not as selfish and shortsighted as you.  Do you realize how horrible your suburban existence is to the environment compared to the urban dwellers of NYC or SF? 

By the way - there is no possible way that you could have lived in Illinois, Missouri, and Mississippi and NEVER seen any store of the same type with three in a five mile radius - have you heard of Kroger, Albertsons, or Winn Dixie?

Re unions -

Unions played a part in helping build a middle class for America when we were in the industrial stage of our development.  Now, we are a post-industrial nation and unions (for the most part) have lost relevance.

I worked for a few years in Las Vegas at some of the resorts.  The unions control the strip.  Wages in the union jobs (after taking out union dues) are no better than the non-union jobs, but the possibility of promotions for anything other than tenure is completely eliminated with the union jobs.

Higher wages and benefits are needed for Walmart employees, but unions are not the answer.  Unions now only inflate prices, encourage lack of accountability for employees, and discourage ambition.  New laws are the answer.  Any state where the minimum wage is still $5.15 need it raised and health care needs to be socialized.

Lori,

Take a look at our numbers of Albertsons for zip code 95129.

Type in that zip code and click “within 5 miles”

A few more than 3

Lori,

The website is www.albertsons.com

I guess a person who can afford to pay $5.00 for a cup of coffee at ‘Starbucks’, $80.00+ for a pair of jeans, and $2.00 for a bottle of water, doesn’t need to shop at Wal-Mart.  But, some of us don’t make $75,000.00+ a year, so we have to watch our spending and need Wal-Mart.

Chris C. wrote:

“ Unions played a part in helping build a middle class for America when we were in the industrial stage of our development.  Now, we are a post-industrial nation and unions (for the most part) have lost relevance. “

Nicely put. 

I worked as a truck driver for 12 years.  The Teamsters union, discouraged people from working in different catagories.  For example, if you were a truck driver and there were no loads to move, but they needed help on the loading dock, you were not allowed to help out, because you were not a dock worker.  Therefore, you had to sit and wait until a trailer got loaded.  As a route driver, you were not even allowed to route your load.  So, you ended up driving all over the town, back and forth, until your load was delivered, which took about 3 times longer than if you had been allowed to route it.

Also, my employer paid into a union controlled pension fund for me for 12 years, but, because I didn’t stay in the union for 30 years, all that money was lost to me.  I am now retired and sure could use that pension money.  Where do you think that money from my pension went?

On the subject of jeans Robert---> you could if you want to---> go to pointerbrand.com (which is a non-union but american made product) and buy a pair of jeans depending on size for between $28.85 to $35.25. They are well made and like I said by american workers. You also have Union made jeans and I can provide links for that if you’d like.

Kurt in NYC says:

By the way - there is no possible way that you could have lived in Illinois, Missouri, and Mississippi and NEVER seen any store of the same type with three in a five mile radius - have you heard of Kroger, Albertsons, or Winn Dixie?

Guess what YOU are very wrong. I have lived in all three states and I have heard of all three stores don’t remember ever seeing a kroger store. The only Albertsons I’ve ever seen closed it’s doors less then a year after it opened, and yes we have Winn Dixie here in Mississippi BUT there are none that close together.

Listen folks I will say it again I did not say it never happens I said I have never seen it! Pay attention I asked for a zip code, I did not get it from the person I requested it from but I did, check the one I was given and admitted that yes it did happen so WHY are you having a fit?

Maybe you all need to get out of town once in awhile. There really are places that do not have that kind of saturation from a single company. Even in a town 30 miles up the road with a population of nearly 50,000 there are only two walmarts and the truth is I was actually surprised when they built the second one 6 years ago. I have visited some big cities like St. Louis, New Orleans, Chicago, and Kansas City but the fact is I really really don’t like those big cities so I get out of town as fast as I can. Heck I live in a very small town. Here’s a few statistics from where I live:
Population 3539
Land Area 5.5 sq mi
House Value (Q3 2003) $59000
Cost of living index (100 is national average) 95
Median household income $23424

I did not mean for so many people to get so upset with my request and if I could take it back I guarentee you I would. I don’t live in the big city folks I don’t visit if I don’t have to, I like driving on two lane roads with no other cars in site, a dark night, and seeing the stars in the sky. I like my life and if that means we don’t have dozens of starbucks on each street or even 3 walmarts in a 5 mile radius I can live with it. Like I said I admitt I was wrong I can’t say nothing more about it. I won’t apologize because I have nothing to be sorry for I’m happy with my life and I don’t think I’m crazy or stupid because I have not seen that kind of life. I don’t want to, and if you are happy with it then I’m happy for you.

Lori wrote:

“ Maybe you all need to get out of town once in awhile. There really are places that do not have that kind of saturation from a single company. Even in a town 30 miles up the road with a population of nearly 50,000 there are only two walmarts “

This reminded me of a situation I was in many years ago.  I lived in a city in Wisconsin, with a population of about 90,000.  The city of Milwaukee was to the north and Chicago was to the south, with very little rural areas in between.  My wife and I decided to move to upper Wisconsin, about 250 miles north of where we were.  When I was telling my friend about the move, his sister asked why we would want to move into the wilderness.  In her mind, she pictured a sort of ‘Little House on the Prairie’ scene, with a pump in the back yard, candles and lamps for light, an ‘out house’, etc., you get the picture.  My friends dad, even after visiting our new home, asked how anyone could live in ‘This God forsaken country’, as he put it.  I thought it was ‘God’s country’. 

My point is, that some people who have lived in the big city have a lack of understanding of certain things.  They think that anyone who makes less than $50,000.00 a year, must be Ghetto People and anyone who can’t visit a ‘Starbucks’ at least twice a day are underprivliged.  Therefore, they like to poke fun at these ‘poor souls’, who don’t make enough to afford the basic essencials, like TIVO, a Escalade and designer clothing.  And, if only Wal-Mart would pay better and provide better benefits, they too could move into the ‘real world’ and afford the finer things in life.

larry wrote:

‘ On the subject of jeans Robert---> you could if you want to---> go to pointerbrand.com (which is a non-union but american made product) and buy a pair of jeans depending on size for between $28.85 to $35.25. “

I pay about $12.00 a pair for my jeans, so I get 2 pair for the price you pay for 1 and have $4.85 left over to purchase something else.  And, believe it or not, your 1 pair of jeans will not wear longer than my 2 pair.  I don’t know exactly why some people can’t get ahold of the world economy concept and feel that if it isn’t made in America, the country will go into a tailspin.  People rant and rave about how bad it is that third world countries have people living in poverty, but, get upset if those same countries try to make a buck selling their products in America.  And, as for Wal-Mart, some people seem to be using the old “Not in my back yard’ arguement against the concept of Wal-Mart’s expansion.

So, if you live in your condo at $3,000.00 a month and make $100,000.00 a year, fine, but, don’t think that everyone should wear your shoes or they are not fit to live.  Some people are perfectly happy living in a home with a $350.00 a month mortgage payment and making $35,000.00 a year.  I know it is hard to imagine anyone being happy living this way, but, some of us don’t want to be part of the ‘rat race’, so get over it.  You live your life and let us live ours, okay?  And, if someone is happy working at Wal-Mart, accept that and if they aren’t, let them find a place that makes them happy, okay?  Keep you nose in your own business and don’t worry about how others live, honestly, most can take care of themselves.

As for taxpayers paying for health care, I pay taxes for schools and don’t have any children in school, but I don’t complain about it.

Robert,

We’ll live our life and you can live yours, but we want our tax money back then.  Check out the stats - states like Arkansas are simply leeches on backs of the prosperous states.  We have to pay higher taxes in our states just to keep you guys around - trust me, if we could lower our taxes and not have you guys fall into a tailspin, we would.  It just isn’t possible.  States like Mississippi and Arkansas don’t have enough money to pay for their own roads, let alone health care or education - and yes, Walmart has a LOT to do with that.

Im not suggesting we all go Amish, but do we really NEED half the crap we buy? I think the whole big deal and point of this site and others is that we should all support each other in out OWN communities one way or another so that we can all share in whatever wealth there is.  One huge problem that I have with the mass marketed chains is that how big is big enough? When does a company have enough money? These are philsophical questions to ask ourselves and maybe remind others to ask themselves also. I get so frustrated with weakness in people who say that shopping at walmart is not right, but everyone else is and they are winning so they are going to anyway. That is a life lived without principal, and these people are very weak and I really do not want to have to count on them for anything.

I am not gonna eat the rich because most have worked for their money and have a right to pay whatever they want for their clothes. Mostly who buys these expensive, frivelous things are living on credit card interest and a thread. What i have noticed though is that a majority of truly wealthy people are making the proper decicions on what they buy and when they do it. From my observation these people wear their clothes for a long time before replacing them and eat properly. Has anyone else ever noticed the person ahead of them in the grocery line with the cart full of freezer pizzas and soft drinks paying with food stamps. Most of these people are poor because they keep making bad decisions. Anyone ever notice the homeless on tv. They almost always seem to have a pack of cigarettes and new tennis shoes. The rampant spreading of senseless consumerism that is spread by walmart and their like is mostly responsible in my ever to be humbled opinion.

Wayne wrote:

“ One huge problem that I have with the mass marketed chains is that how big is big enough? When does a company have enough money? “

Other people in these threads, has asked the same thing about the Waltons, how much money is enough? 

I will ask you, if you were in charge, what limit would you put on how much money anyone could have, how big a chain could get and at what point does a company have enough money?

If your limit on how much money a person could have, was say 10 million dollars, what would you suggest happen when they reached that point?  Would they have to give all future money made away?  If so, who would they give it to?  How about a chain?  Would they have to close their doors, once they reached a certain amount of money?  Or, could they continue to operate and give any other money they made away?  And, again, who would they give it to?

And, if the company closed its doors, (after all, why would anyone work for nothing after they reached their limit), what would happen to all the workers?  After all, they would not be able to find jobs with all the large businesses shut down.  And, do you think that there are enough people out there, who are rich enough, but not yet at their limit to buy up all the closed down businesses to keep those workers employed?  Then, once they reached their limit, they would have to sell out, right?

Come on now, tell us what should that limit should be?

wayne wrote:

“ Mostly who buys these expensive, frivelous things are living on credit card interest and a thread. What i have noticed though is that a majority of truly wealthy people are making the proper decicions on what they buy and when they do it. From my observation these people wear their clothes for a long time before replacing them and eat properly. Has anyone else ever noticed the person ahead of them in the grocery line with the cart full of freezer pizzas and soft drinks paying with food stamps. Most of these people are poor because they keep making bad decisions. “

And, who should pay for the poor people’s ‘bad’ decisions?  The people who make ‘good’ decisions?

Without going so far as communism, I really have no idea how much is exactly too much. I just know they have too much. I see walgreens as just as bad if not worse. These chains have grown due to the blatant greed of all of us. These stores are catering to the lowest common denominator of our culture. If this retail space closes down and these workers are put out of work. Dont cry, Other jobs and retail will sprout up. I just hope that this happens before americans become even more dependant upon the wharehouse experience. They have choked us down so far now that I wonder if some of these consumers will be able to be reprogrammed to save instead of spend, spend, spend.

This leads into your question about what to do with what i call the “welfare culture”. During katrina we were all confronted on tv and the papers with a huge welfare population that has been allowed to buy as THEY choose. How many skinny “poor” people did we get to see. What I personally saw was a bunch of very poorly educated, overwieght people. Of course there were exceptions to the rule, but a majority were just ignorant.

I feel that I am rambeling and am having a hard time getting my point accross. So I guess I will just use the words that express what I feel the real problem with it all is..The sense of entitlement, the greed of consumerism, and the lack of accountabillity for poor education and parenting. If we get to work trying to fix all of this then walmart among the rest of big business will have to change their tactics and employment practices due to ethical concerns.

I apologise if I am not very clear and hope that some of you feel that my points are valid and get my points regardless of my poor communication skills.

Wayne - I have to say that I see where you are coming from, but, how do you get people to change.  I know some of the type of people you are talking about and have tried to show them how if they just changed their spending habits and saved for a ‘rainy day’ and their ‘future’, they could change their lives.  But, they won’t listen to me, they would rather get their advice from some other person who is as broke as they are.

I have used this example:  If poor man A, won the lottery of $10 million dollars, who do you think he would go to for investment advice, Bill Gates or poor man B?  Bill Gates would tell him to pay off his bills, buy a house and invest the rest of his money to maximise future income.  Poor man B, would tell him to first off, throw a big party, with lots of beer and then buy everything he wasn’t able to buy when he was poor, until he was poor again.  The fact is, 90% of the time, poor man A would listen to poor man B, not Bill Gates.

There is no “welfare culture.” It’s a myth; a racist, sexist, bullsh*t discursive tool to make working class White people think that they have nothing in common with their fellow working class people of color. 

The high obesity rate among low-income Americans is simple. Bad food (McDonalds or a hot dog from the 7 Eleven for example) is cheap. If you want some organic, healthy food, you’re going to pay through the nose. Some of us are lucky enough to be able to afford it; many of us are not. And why are the poor so poorly educated? Because they choose to be? No, becuase school funding is directly tied to property taxes, among other things, which means if someone is low-income and lives in the low-income part of town (which because of capitalism’s inherent racism and sexism is generally more female and browner), her/his local school is probably underfunded and cannot afford the best teachers, nevermind the best books, buildings, and programs. And I’m sure some schmuck is going to try to pin this on teachers’ unions, but like all unions - need I remind everyone - teachers’ unions’ goals do not include forcing children to live with bad teachers, lining union bosses’ pockets with dues money, or whatever other ridiculous argument is out there. Their goals are to improve the working conditions of teachers, and the school experiences of children.

So, the point here is that everyone needs to bruxh up on their critical thinking skills. Don’t believe there’s a welfare culture becuase some ignorant tv “journalist” or policymaker says it’s true. Don’t believe working class people of color choose to be poor, live off the syste (which isn’t even possible), or get fat on fancy food becuase that’s all you see in the media....THINK.

Well Robert like it or not I still knocked that $80 jean price that you cited into the $30 range and with an american manufacturer. As far as quality goes IMO you are wrong.
Again Asian sweatshop manufacturers because they are cutting costs however they can are noted for skimping on thread count which is another way of saying on overall fabric.
And believe me South American ones are doing the same. It’s not just labor costs they’re making a profit on. And WM amongst others is in cahoots with them.

Gracie in Boston

get out of boston and head down to the bronx and then claim there is no welfare culture go to the projects in Chicago or any low income housing project in america. It ain’t a race thing it’s the mentality of the people whether they are black, or white, or what ever the dang color they are. He made referense to the New Orleans thing because lets face it that is the most recent and extreme example of the welfare mentality. Those people are so used to having everything handed to them they couldn’t even help themselves when their lives depended on it.

Yes the way the media depicted the aftermath of the hurricane was biosed toward New Orleans. They were trying to convinse people the rest of the world that things were horrible down here. No one that didn’t live down here saw the way things really were all the rest of the country saw was the Superdome and what was happening there. The welfare culture/mentality believes they are entitled, they are second third and fouth generation welfare recipeints that have no idea what it means to be responsability for themselves. Give a listen once in a while they are the ones screaming the loudest about welfare reform, they are also the ones at the front of the line in a class action suit, or when they hand out the free government cheese. They know how to get rent assistance, and help paying their rent, when the foodstamps are gone they know where the free food can be found. I’m not saying that everyone that needs help from the government is like this. It’s not that way, some people actually find themselves on welfare and do their best to get off it as quickly as they can. That is how the welfare system was intended, it was never meant to be a way of life for generation after generation of the same family.

I know you are a union supporter but surely you can not believe their is no welfare culture in america, I just know that you could not possibly live that sheltered of a life. And no one at all mentioned color except you so I can only assume you are the one that has a racist connection between welfare and folks of color.

larry - Glad to hear that you got American made jeans down to $30.00 a pair, guess what, you now have $50.00 extra dollars to purchase other things.  This was an example of shopping around.  This is what I do.

As for quality, I never said the $12.00 were of better quality, I just said that my 2 pair would last just as long as your 1 pair.  The second advantage, is that I would have 2 pair which I can alternate, you would just have 1, therefore, you would have to purchase another pair to wear while the other pair was being washed.  Then, for the same price as you paid for that second pair, I could get another 2 pair of jeans, which would leave you with 2 pair and I would have 4 pair.  Understand what I’m getting at?  It is called ‘stretching your dollar’.

The fact is, that money flows, it does not end.  And, even if the money goes overseas to a different country, eventually, it finds its way back to America.  An example is Japan.  At one time, we were buying cheap Japanese products, and people railed about how that was going to destroy our economy.  Now the japanese are buying American products.  Also, they have now erected industries in the U.S. that employ American workers.  That investment of the past had 2 benefits, 1.) People were able to get things at lower prices back then and 2.) Now, both Americans and the Japanese have benefited from the exercise.  It became a win/win situation.  Protectionists, will disagree, but, that doesn’t change the facts.

Robert, I hate to sound like a peace corps reject, but here goes..Maybe we need to not trade abroad in most of these places because we do not need to spread our bad habits to the rest of the world...The arab world doesnt want us there because they dont want their kids to place such a high esteme on buying NIKE tennis shoes....And they also dotn want walmart…

Lori,

I thought you had never seen three of one store in five miles, yet you’ve seen projects in Chicago and the Bronx?  You didn’t notice a few Walgreens in Chicago?  Or some Starbucks?  Or some McDonalds?

I live in a small middle class town in northern Idaho with a population of 30k. The only people here who are upper middle class are from California, driving the house prices out of range from the average local toiling at jobs averaging pay of 7.00/hour. Then here comes Costco, where 6000 people applied for 100 jobs available. Why? Because it pays a much better starting wage and offers more benefits than anywhere else including the 2 walmarts in a 25 mile radius, including the one across the Washington border. Plus as someone else mentioned, it is so much more refreshing to shop in a store where the people are cheerful and friendly not like the majority of the idiots you find in walmart. When people feel screwed by their employer, it shows in their job performance I don’t care what anyone says.

Wayne,

Do you really think that the “spend spend spend” lifestyle of Americans has been caused by Walmart and other large retail corporations?  I would put the blame FAR more on the government and to a lesser extent, the banking industry.

Remember, up until the mid 80’s, you could deduct credit card interest on your taxes!  If that isn’t encouraging spend spend spend, I don’t know what is!  And we’ve had extremely low interest rates the last few years, which has certainly encouraged it more so - this in combo with all kinds of new things that banks have come up with like nothing down loans on houses, cash out refinancings, home equity loans, the list goes on and on.

Walmart has given people a place to spend the money, but the government and their buddies in the finance industries have given the people the MONEY to spend.

But, all is not lost.  Remember the old saying, “When you owe the bank a thousand dollars, you can’t sleep.  When you owe the bank a million dollars, the banker can’t sleep”?  That is the situation with us and the rest of the world now.  We drastically need a devalued dollar or fewer imports or more exports to bring things into balance (more likely a combo of the three), but the rest of the worl can’t afford ANY of those things to happen quickly (or at all, really), so they continue to prop us up through Treasury purchases and the like.

You may be totally right in the belief that the large chains did not start the spending, but have to admit that they do proffit very well from throwing gas on the fire..

They certainly profit, but I don’t think we can blame them for it.  It’s like blaming CPA’s for the complex tax code - we need to go to the roots of the problem to fix it, not to the people who happen to make a buck because of it.

Wayne in Hull wrote:

“ The arab world doesnt want us there because they dont want their kids to place such a high esteme on buying NIKE tennis shoes....And they also dotn want walmart… “

I’m not sure about this, but, I don’t think that Wal-Mart has any plans to build any stores in arab cultures soon.

Walmart is opening stores in Turkey this year.

I can live with the concept that retail did not start the spending. Who did? I guess blaming the banks would be like the fat guy blaming the grocery store..The same with the government...I am going to hold myself accountable for my lousey spending habits..ha...I feel helpless as i watch this wonderful world of ours tell me that I am crazy for placing judgement on it in the same light that i shine on myself..

Robert Helper wrote:

“ Walmart is opening stores in Turkey this year. “

Well, I guess the stores will fail then, and close down, if the people there don’t want them and don’t want to shop at them, right?

Somehow, I think that Wal-Mart checked out the area, before they decided to build there, most businesses do that.  As far as I know, they don’t just plop stores anywhere and hope they work out.

Walmart failed MISERABLY in their first SEVERAL experiments in the Japanese market.  Ditto the German market.  They’ve gotten a little better now at determining what it will take to succeed in new markets, but I would certainly not be surprised to see them fail in Turkey only to return again in a few years.

Wayne,

You sound very conservative, and that’s fine.  But, as any social scientist can tell you (and any liberal as well), you can’t just tell people to “take care of themselves”.  A lot of what they learn and do depends on the environment that they were brought up in and the rules that were set for them.  If the government encourages a spend spend spend attitude, at least a small percentage of people will follow it, and there will NOT be the same percentage of people that move in the opposite direction. So while there are certainly millions of people in the US who have saved a lot and are very responsible, the government and through their actions, the banks, have encouraged enough irresponsible behavior to tip the balance of things.

Wayne helper helper: I sound very confused and confusing talking to myself.

wayne helper - You are very right about people learning from their environment and how government helps to promote irresponsible behavior.  The ‘welfare system’ is a good example of this.  Under this system, it created people who became permenant ‘welfare families’.  Just as a ‘working person’ teaches their children the value of working and gives them the knowledge of how to find a job and work, so does the ‘welfare person’ teach their children where to sign up for benefits, how to get rent assistance and what churches to go to to get food baskets.  And, it is hard to break the cycle.  First, someone has to teach the parents how to be responsible and then they can teach their children.  But, the ‘bleeding heart’ liberals, in an attempt to feel sorry for those unfortunates have promoted this irresponsible behavior to be passed down from one generation to the next.

I guess, the first step would be to change liberal thinking, but, good luck trying to do that.  These are the same people who think that Wal-Mart is to blame for all the worlds ills.

Robert, Although this may not be all that palatable. .i liken promotion of poor spending habits by the government and walmart to a sore being a sign of the herpies underneath.

As far as the welfare state being self perpetuating, I beleive that the government and the rest of the manufacturing and retail elite look at welfare recipients as captive consumers that help contribute to the smoke and mirrors of a huge GNP.

So Rob,

Is your idea to abandon welfare altogether?  Is that your “bible-thumpin’” conservative solution?

Robert said:

“Somehow, I think that Wal-Mart checked out the area, before they decided to build there, most businesses do that.  As far as I know, they don’t just plop stores anywhere and hope they work out. “

Walmart is STILL losing money in Germany after being there for almost a decade.  The only reason they continue to expand there is because they can afford to lose money for years and years while putting other companies out of business - so eventually they can raise prices enough to make money.

And, the increased buying power that those money losing stores help generate additional profits in other areas.

JC-
regarding the 18%-19% of Costco employees being Union; Besides those being in the meat cutter’s union, these are actually FORMER Price Club warehouse employees working in FORMER Price Club warehouses.  Price Club’s were unionized before the Price-Costco “merger”.  If a Costco and Price Club were located in the same city, the Price Club was closed regardless if the Price Club was newer, larger or in a better location. The Price Clubs were also closed if they were within a 15 mile radius of a Costco.  In order for Costco not to be considered a union-buster, the Price Club’s that were closed needed to stay that way for five years before Costco could build another (non union) warehouse in that city.  The original Price Club warehouses are still teamster.  There are very few of them now, because Costco is very ANTI union.  In my opinion, they would love to get rid of the teamsters all together.  Unions used to be stronger, and necessary for labor to receive decent wages, medical benefits and unions used to be there to police unfair labor practices; such as those Walmart is being accused of.  Costco pays a fair wage, just high enough, and gives just enough overtime, and benefits, so the people working there don’t see a reason to go back to school to get a degree.  I see a lot of my friends that work there, and they are “LIFERS”.  They are in a trap of just enough to buy nice things, and pay the bills, but not enough to really do what they want to do.  So for that, I think that we need to thank Walmart.  The wages that they offer, are very little, and if you do start working there, (at least in our area) you receive info on getting local services, such as food stamps, and WIC to help suppliment your income.  I hope that people soon realize that working at Walmart is just a stepping stone or a temp. situation- because there are better things out there.

You said:
Chris in SF: About 18% of Costco’s workers are forced into unions. Typically, this means that if you want to work in a certain job category, you have to pay dues or you won’t be able to work in this category. Those who are already working in this job category prior to the union bullying itself into the workplace might face being fired if they refuse to enrich the union bosses.

Are these workers being denied a chance at this type of job, or are they being fired from it because they aren’t qualified or they aren’t doing the job as well as others? No. The reason they are kept out is because they would rather keep their own money than turn it over to the union bosses.

That’s a lousy thing to do to the workers, especially when the union that bullies Costco workers is so ofen the Teamsters. Costco should do a better job at protecting its workers from them.

This requiring of a large number of its workers to belong to non-job-related organizations is the reason I won’t support Costco.

jc in
Sunday, December 04 at 02:39 PM