R.I.P. Working Families

more bs and propaganda

Wow, Great article. Just in time for Christmas.

Wal-mart is made up of Execs who think the average American is not too smart.

To bad. We are smarter than they think.

Sorry Wal-mart, maybe next Christmas will be better.

No, Jim, it’s these Anti Wal-Mart people who think that American shoppers aren’t very smart, just read their posts!!

I have said it before, if the unions want to defeat Wal-Mart, why don’t they band together and start their own retail chain, based on the “Buy American” model?  The best way to win, is to get in the game, instead of trying to be an ‘armchair quarterback!!  Why don’t they do this, you may ask, maybe it’s because ‘It wouldn’t work’ and they know it!!  So, instead, they just try to undermine something that is working and whine, “How come we are losing membership?”!!  Unions are dying!!

The anti posters are on the losing side and they don’t like it, they have no vision of what a ‘global economy’ will do, in making life better for all the people of the world, they instead look only on what is ‘good’ for them, can anyone claim to be MORE selfish than they are?  They also can’t stand to see people who ‘make up their own minds’ and they feel the need to tell you how to think, because they believe you are too ‘stupid’, to think for yourself!! 

Read the posts, Screwedby wants to put up factories in America and hire cheap Mexican labor and then he talks about the “race to the bottom”, how hypocritical can one person get?  And, Ken V., he only wants destruction of the leading retailer, he has no suggestions on how to make things better!!  Then, there’s SDV, he is so off the wall, with his rantings, using ‘big’ words, to make it look like he knows what he is talking about!!  Losers all!!

Think about it, if Wal-Mart is what these clowns say they are, why is it that 138 million people shop there every week and 1.5 million people work there?

Interesting post, RDS. It reads like someone is helping you with your homework.

...they believe you are too ‘stupid’, to think for yourself!!

Nothing could be further from the truth, but then I believe the reader is smart enough to figure that out for themselves. And if you view “American shoppers” as so smart, why the need to explain anti Wal-Marters to them?

And, Ken V., he only wants destruction of the leading retailer, he has no suggestions on how to make things better!!

The destruction of Wal-Mart would makes things better!

...138 million people shop there every week and 1.5 million people work there...

You might want to scurry back to the walmartfacts site and check those numbers. I believe them to be outdated.

The destruction of Wal-Mart would makes things better!

Try explaining that to the million-plus people who would be out of work, Ken…

Try explaining that to the million-plus people...

Half of them will quit this year anyway, so the damage isn’t as profound as you would have us believe. Couple that with the data that indicates for every two jobs Wal-Mart creates the area loses three and I don’t see any huge upheaval caused by the death of the Beast.

For every two jobs Wal-Mart creates, an area loses 0. At least until the Wal-Mart closes, then all the jobs created are lost. But until then, Wal-Mart is only responsible for the people it hires and fires. They are not to blame for decisions other employers make.

...an area loses 0.

A study conducted by the Congressional Research Service showed that for every two jobs created by a Wal-Mart store, the community loses three. Jobs that are retained by a community are merely shifted from local businesses to the giant retailer.

The report also pointed out that these so-called new jobs “provide significantly lower wages then jobs in many industries, and are often only part-time positions, seasonal opportunities, or subject to extensive turnover.”

I would be interested in any data you have to substantiate your “0” claim.

I find it very hard believe that if Walmart (or any big box store for that matter) comes to town that 3 jobs are lost for every 2 they create.  First of all, where are these 3 jobs lost… in the retail world?  Would these not be small “mom and pop” jobs?  Are you suggesting that mom and pop stores offer better wages and benefits then a big box store?  I’d love to see that data.  Do you have a link to that study Ken?

i would like to see that link too mary.everytime you back people like screwed by and ken into a corner and demand answers out of them they run and hide and give you the same tired baloney and union and govt propaganda.and stats that are so full of you know what.walmart dont drive down wages and put others out of business ken.the mom and pops and other high cost stores put themselves out of business with their arrogant refusal to lower their assinine high prices to attract more customers to shop there.walmart dont copntrol what these other stores pay their workers and what benefits they offer.thats controlled by these other stores not wm.wake up ken.get your head out of your rear end buddy.govt studies in case you are too stupid and dumb to realize ken are not very accurate and lie all the time.where are those jobs lost ken?because i dont see it and your point is so full of bs its sad.the only ones you believe is the govt and unions..

The lie continues-

“For every two jobs Wal-Mart creates, an area loses 0. At least until the Wal-Mart closes, then all the jobs created are lost. But until then, Wal-Mart is only responsible for the people it hires and fires. They are not to blame for decisions other employers make.’

economic in e.g
Wednesday, December 26 at 05:39 PM

“The sweetheart deals given to two Wal-Mart Supercenters in Hamilton, Missouri undermined Red Esry’s four family-owned grocery stores. Esry watched his sales plunge as soon as the Supercenters opened—he couldn’t compete with Wal-Mart’s prices and lost almost half of his business virtually overnight.

In the film, Esry’s wife ruefully recounts how her husband went to City Hall to ask for a property tax abatement to match Wal-Mart’s subsidy, but was turned down. Esry cut costs, but refused to stop paying his employees a good wage and continued to provide them with full health-care benefits and a pension package. Red Esry’s story is being played out in thousands of communities across America.”

http://www.alternet.org/workplace/27864

WalMart- Don’t trouble us with facts, history, articles and documentation of all the crap we pulled. Our propaganda slobs and internet frauds, fakes, shills and trolls simply need to do a better job.

Do you have a link to that study Ken?

The NRS doesn’t make their reports directly available to the public so I’m having difficulty finding a source for the report in question. I’ll keep looking but in the meantime I’ll cede the “for every two jobs created by a Wal-Mart store, the community loses three” point.

I maintain my position, however, that the slow death of Wal-Mart will have little or no appreciable negative effect on the US economy overall.

I think we have seen enough studies and reports on Walmart as a jobs killer to know that is a major part of what they are. I’ve seen stores close when Walmart came to town. Doubting that is like saying that Walmart imports nothing from China. Really stupid and completely untrue like the total shit matthew vantress would write.

“Do you have a link to that study Ken?”

It kills me how “Knowledgeable” the pro Wal-Mart lackeys pride themselves on being, and yet people like “Mary,” and bbrd, and RDS keep asking for “statistics” or a “link to that study.”

I hate to sound like a broken record, but why not?  It seems to be good enough for RDS and matthew v!

Just connect the dots between the flow of money to China via Wal-Mart, and the buildup of the Chinese military machine!  What do all you flag worshipping anti-Communist types have to say about that?

Screwedby,

“It kills me how “Knowledgeable” the pro Wal-Mart lackeys pride themselves on being, and yet people like “Mary,” and bbrd, and RDS keep asking for “statistics” or a “link to that study.””

Why shouldn’t we ask for ‘statistics’ or ‘links’?  Until you provide evidence that what you are saying is FACT, instead of made-up BS, your statements mean nothing!!

An example is this:

“The NRS doesn’t make their reports directly available to the public so I’m having difficulty finding a source for the report in question. I’ll keep looking but in the meantime I’ll cede the “for every two jobs created by a Wal-Mart store, the community loses three” point.” ~ Ken V.

He quotes a study and when pressed about it, he claims the study results are not available to the public and in the end, concedes that what he represented, may not be true!!

In today’s economy, it has been a practice of companies to get bigger or merge with other businesses, to cut cost and become more efficient, because of rising costs!!  Unfortunately, job cutting is one of the cost restructuring demands, (It is not efficient to have 2 people to do 1 job)!!  And, those, (like Red Esry, in the example), who can’t do what is necessary to survive, will fall by the way-side, it’s sad, but, I’m sure that when Red Esry opened his stores, he stole customers from other stores, some of which may have ended up going out of business, because of it!!  Those who fail to compete, fail, period!!

“Those who fail to compete, fail, period!!” ~RDS

Just like your favorite candidate, Dr. Ron Paul is going to do in 2008, right RDS?

I keep hearing about all this money Paul is raising via the internet, but I don’t seem to see that money being translated into votes.

Screwed you never did answer my question… where did you shop for your Christmas gifts this year?

I Don’t Know Why This is Relevant?

I don’t want you to feel neglected, “Mary.” I shopped at 5 different stores this year, plus I made a few online purchases. I’m sure you can guess where I didn’t shop!

If taking a poll Mary, I did nearly all my shopping online.  Grandparents and my inlaws got either gift boxes from Hickory Farms or Barnes & Noble gift cards.  My parents got a gift card to one of their favorite restaurants plus something from the Liquor store.  My sis-in-law is working over in Japan so we sent her perfume from Fragrance.net.  And I ordered video games from Amazon.com for both my nephews.

I have to say that shopping online is quick, painless and stress-free.  That teamed with the variety of gift cards that can be purchased from the Kiosk at Safeway is the only way to go these days.  Well that is unless you enjoy being crammed into those long lines like lambs headed towards the slaughter.

hey screwed by was any of the merchandise sold at the places you shopped at made in china with cheap labor?i am sure most of it was.funny why it is you are not screaming and hollering about that?oh thats right they are not wm so big deal.

if walmart is dying ken then why are so many people still shopping there ken?

...the slow death of Wal-Mart...

P.S. The CRS report in question was issued in 1994. If you can find a copy of it on line you are a better researcher than I am.

If you copy & paste this quote from the report: “provide significantly lower wages then jobs in many industries, and are often only part-time positions, seasonal opportunities, or subject to extensive turnover.” into a search engine you will get other references to the report.

Now about that “0” claim?

Screwed, did you shop at Costco, Target or KMart?

btw, EVERYTHING is relevent.

Ken… “provide significantly lower wages then jobs in many industries”....  I’ll concede that point because it’s easy.  But it’s also very simple, retail never has payed as well as many other industries and probably never will.  It all comes down to skill level and the ultimate rule of supply and demand.

Corgi,

I’ll give kudos where it is due—Safeway did break some serious gift-giving ground with their offering of gift cards.

For those who don’t know what’s going on in the business, Safeway’s “Blackhawk Network” also supplies the other big grocery and convenience chains with their different gift cards.

In fact, I believe they recently signed a big deal with Kroger, which should give them a presence in places where Safeway doesn’t operate.

As for Wal-Mart, I’ll be the first to say they’re seriously lacking in their GC selection, but at least they do more than Target and Costco, who offers little to none, at all (other than their own store cards).

That is, unless you count iTunes.

Who was that out there saying that I’m “all Wal-Mart, all the time”?

Ken V,

“...the slow death of Wal-Mart...”

At a 2% loss of customers each year, it will only take 50 years, for Wal-Mart to die!!  That is, providing that no “new” people (people who become of age), start shopping there!!  It is quite possible, for every 1 person who quits shopping at Wal-Mart, 1 “new’ person will start!!

Screwedby,

“I shopped at 5 different stores this year, plus I made a few online purchases. I’m sure you can guess where I didn’t shop!”

Are you trying to get us to believe, that everytime you took your mother to shop at Wal-Mart, you NEVER bought even 1 thing, while there?  I doubt that very much!!  Also, why do you keep taking your mother to shop at Wal-Mart, when you could take her to the 5 stores you frequent and show her how much better THEY are?  And, why is it that you can’t get your mother to see your point of view about Wal-Mart?

Still Dancing...huh bbrd?

Maybe if you change the topic...this thread will get moved 4 pages back and you won’t have to answer the questions.

Speaking of answering questions… why should I feel obliged to tell you where I shop, “Mary?” Are you trying to suggest that maybe I’m a secret “in the closet” Wal-Mart shopper?  Ron Paul will be elected president before that happens.

No...I don’t care for K-Mart either… you’re getting warmer.

If you are trying to make the same lame-brained point as matthew v, that all stores sell merchandise from China etc., that reality was apparent a long time ago.  I don’t think supporting the Chinese economy is a good idea, regardless of where one chooses to shop.  That’s why if I’m faced with the choice of buying a shirt that is “Hecho in China,” or one that is “Hecho in Sri Lanka” or “Hecho in Honduras,” guess which one I’m going to buy?

I doubt that very much!!

Who G.A.F. What You Believe, RDS?

Listne I worked for Wal-mart for 3 years at two diffrent stores. One was great, The people friendly and everyone was treated very well. The other one was horrable and I stayed only 3 months. I agree Wal-mart is messed up and has there Prioritys backwards but I also know I live paycheck to paycheck with three kids under 6 and I need there low prices on certain things. I would love to shop elsewhere (and do on certain things) but I can’t always 10 dollars for my daughters new shirt when I can get it for 6 dollars there. What do you suggest someone in my position does. Where should I shop?

Where should I shop?

Buy from whoever is the lowest in price, Stephanie. If it’s Wal-Mart, so be it, but don’t assume Wal-Mart is the lowest on all things because they are not.

And once you have been lured into Wal-Mart by a loss leader, resist the temptation to buy <b.anything</b> impulsively.

Wal-Mart one-year net profit margin: 3.6%

Ken, in one point you say Walmart is not the lowest price on all things (which i agree with) but then the next sentence you talk about just how little margin they make.  I’d say that’s a bit of a contradition.

wm is the lowest mary on a good majority of their items.hey screwed by seems like you are finally coming around and realizing what i have been harping on all along .darn near everything else sold at other retailers you shop at is made in china with cheap labor as well.that shoots down all your arguments about wm selling china made products so does everyone else.most toys sold at union grocery stores are made in china too.you cant use that i will boycott wm baloney because they sell so much stuff from china,because you might as well boycott every other business in america as well because they get most of their stuff from china as well.

lame brained point screwed?its a fact bud whether you like it or not every other retailer and grocery store in america sells products made in china as well.

I’d say that’s a bit of a contradiction.

You lost me, Mary??

Wal-Mart’s staggering sales numbers but pitiful profit margin are the reason I encourage folks to buy all Wal-Mart’s loss leaders* they can while not falling into the impulse buying snare.

*The operative word is loss.

For the Benefit of the Infrequent Readers of This Blog...

I agree with Ken’s strategy!  For the readers out there who may be wondering what a “loss leader” is, I think the preferred lingo that Wal-Mart managers like to use is “opening price point items.”

Usually at those morning meetings… you know… the meetings where the WM manager tries to whip his “associates” into a frenzy by chanting the “Wal-Mart Cheer,” part of the ritual is for all department managers to give one or two examples of the “opening price point items” for his/her department.  These are the “loss leaders” Ken is referring to.

How do you identify these?  A couple of ways… You will find the “loss leaders” often predominently displayed along the main aisle in many Wal-Mart stores or they will be grouped in a special section… sorta like “Buys of the Week” etc.  Another thing to look for are the end-cap displays or those mountainous displays set up in the middle of the aisle.  Don’t turn off the main aisle though and go into a department, because then they got you!  The point is to lure the less discriminating customers into the department and get him/her to buy the “non-opening price point items.”

Of course the recommended strategy for smart consumers is to avoid Wal-Mart all together.

It’s real simple Ken.... and I’ll ask a simple question.  What is the standard markups Walmart uses on a product vs. competitors? 

As for the Walmart “loss leaders"… I see them using this concept so much LESS than other stores I shop at.  When I go into Safeway I know EXACTLY what is a loss leader for them because of their weekly ads.  I make sure to rob them, and any other retailer, blind when I see a great loss leader deal.  When I walk into Walmart there is not always a weekly flier.  In addition I can ABSOLUTELY SAY that most comparable items I find in the Walmart ISLES follow the same scheme of lower prices.  It’s so easy to compare, apples to apples, products at Walmart to places like Safeway and Target and Walmart wins that horse race MOST of the time.  It’s a NO BRAINER!

There’s a new Walmart Superstore opening in our area in the next two months.  I can’t wait to see how this affects the likes of the local Safeway and Giant who are known for gouging the customers on a regular basis.

And Screwed, I think this is the more appropriate statement…

“Of course the recommended strategy for consumers is be smart, do your homework and shop at whatever store you want to”

Screwedby,

First, you tell people to buy only ‘loss leaders’ at Wal-Mart, to SAVE MONEY, then you say “Of course the recommended strategy for smart consumers is to avoid Wal-Mart all together.”, which flies in the face of SAVING MONEY!!  In other words, to you, a smart shopper would pay more, by avoiding Wal-Mart, than to shop there for the bargains, that makes little sense!!

Now, you say you never shop at Wal-Mart and never worked there, but, somehow know what goes on at all of the morning managers meetings, down to the terminology and strategies they use, strange!!

“It’s a NO BRAINER!”

I think you’ve accurately described the majority of Wal-Mart shoppers mary!

Wow, I never new there were hundreds of millions of shoppers all over the world that have no brain!  What a revelation!!!  or maybe somehow Screwed is the one screwed up in head.  That certainly makes more sense… and more sense then most things that he posts.

mary,

Don’t you know that Screwedby isn’t WRONG, it’s just the rest of the WORLD that is wrong!!  It takes quite an EGO, to think that you are the one who is always right and almost everyone else is always wrong!!

I see them using this concept so much LESS than other stores...

Let’s not forget Wal-Mart’s ‘Back To School’ loss leader binge. And who was it that instituted ‘$4 generic drugs’?

Of course all stores use the concept of lures, but then this isn’t a site about all stores.

...hundreds of millions of shoppers...

That’s a big number, Mary, when did you come up with that?

Buying only “opening price point items” from Wal-Mart hurts them worse than not shopping there at all.

P.S. What is the standard markups Walmart uses...

I’ve never seen anything to indicate Wal-Mart uses a ‘standard’ markup. The markup on some stuff would have to be substantial to make up for selling other items at cost or below.

A Case in Point

I have to agree with you again Ken.  I don’t think Wal-Mart uses a “standard mark-up” most of the time either.  Instead, when Wal-Mart opens a new store in a given area, my observation is that they rely on “comping prices” at the competition, and will mark something down a penny or two, just to be lower.

For example:  About two years ago, Wal-Mart opened a new Supercenter about 30 miles from the city.  Of course I had to check it out!

The first thing I noticed when I entered the produce department was that Small Red Delicious apples were $1.19 per pound and Large Red Delicious were $.89 per pound.  I was curious about this and asked “an associate” if this was correct.  Of course he was clueless.

Looking for an answer, I headed over to the nearby competitor’s store.  Just as I suspected, there I found Large Red Delicious Apples for $1.23 per pound and Small Red Delicious Apples for $.93 per pound.

It would seem the Wal-Mart “associate” who was sent over there to do some “comps,” got it a bit confused.  Or did he?

Screwed did you come up with that theory all on your own?  Bravo of you!!  You’ve finally starting to figure out how retail works.  Maybe an old dog can learn new tricks.

An Ken your comment about buying only price point (loss leader) items from Wal-mart hurts them worse than not shopping at all… absolutly correct… and the same goes for every other retailer.  But somehow the marketing theory of “loss leaders” has been and will continue to be a part of their marketing plans.  They must work.

I loved the food sale items at Giant food over Thanksgiving.  I picked up packages of Cracker Barrel cheese for .75c each vs. their standard $4.50 they charge.  I have enough to last me through their expiration dates.  That purchase alone saved my yearly grocery bill by over $100.  And I’ll do the same thing to Safeway, Target and even Walmart when they offer them up.  That’s being a smart shopper.

Just so We’re straight on the math...

Just so you know that we “anti-Walmarter’s” do know how to do math…

Let’s see… you saved $3.75 on each package of cheese and you saved $100. on your grocery bill on “that purchase alone.”

This means that you bought nearly 27 packages of cheese on one shopping trip.  Is that it? 

Those are either some very small packages of cheese or else you eat one hell of a lot of cheese!  Trying to feed a family of 8 are you?  If we assume they were just 8 oz. packages… that’s about 13.5 pounds of cheese. 

May most of it go moldy on you!

Now to be fair Screwedby, maybe Mary is having a New Year’s Eve party and plans on serving lots and lots of cheese.  Can you make fondue with that cracker barrel cheese?

We’re all invited to a New Year’s Eve party at Mary’s? (Throw a can of Rotel in that fondue, would you, Corgi?)

<b>Happy New Year everyone from:

mary,

“Screwed did you come up with that theory all on your own?  Bravo of you!!  You’ve finally starting to figure out how retail works.  Maybe an old dog can learn new tricks.”

I don’t think Screwedby really does get it yet!!  A local grocery store, has in their entranceway, 3 carts of grocery products, wrapped in stretch wrap and a store receipt from each of 2 other stores on each basket of food and their own, to show that you can get things cheaper at their store, isn’t that “comping”?  Screwedby acts as ifWal-Mart is the only one doing this!!

“And I’ll do the same thing to Safeway, Target and even Walmart when they offer them up.  That’s being a smart shopper.”

You got that right!!  Smart shopping, allows you to get more for your money, too bad some here can’t understand that simple concept, they believe that people should just get paid more, instead of making good spending decisions with the money they already get!!

Wow, Screwed can do math as well!!!  Who would have thunk???

Actually Screwed it was 30 packages of the cheese.  And if you have ever bought that cheese you know that it has expiration dates that are usually 7 months out.  In my case expiration dates were the first week of June.  Between regular use and parties that I know I will have coming up the cheese will probably only last me until April or so.  I should have bought more, but at least I saved $112.50 I keep finding deals like that and i easily save hundreds of dollars on my yearly food bills.

So bring on the next loss leader deal!!!

mary,

Screwedby also has a problem with people buying ‘gallon’ jars of pickles, saying NO ONE can eat that many pickles, we go through a ‘gallon’ jar of ‘dill’ pickles in about 2 months!!

I agree with you, “LOSS LEADERS ROCK”, bring them on and I’ll be there, no matter where they are!!

So bring on the next loss leader deal!!!.... “LOSS LEADERS ROCK”

At the risk of killing your buzz, how much profit do you suppose Wal-Mart made selling you that cheese, Mary?

And if you didn’t buy anything at full retail on your visit, congratulations, you are now a member of the Anti Wal-Mart Movement. :o)

HOW A JAR OF PICKLES EXPLAINS WAL MART

“Screwedby also has a problem with people buying ‘gallon’ jars of pickles...”

I’m not the only one with that “problem,” RDS.

You might want to read what Charles Fishman has to say:

“The jar is the size of a small aquarium. The fat green pickles, floating in swampy juice, look reptilian, their shapes exaggerated by the glass. It weighs 12 pounds, too big to carry with one hand. The gallon jar of pickles is a display of abundance and excess;

But what did it do for Vlasic? The fevered buying spree that resulted distorted every aspect of Vlasic’s operations, from farm field to factory to financial statement.

Indeed, as Vlasic discovered, the real story of Wal-Mart, the story that never gets told, is the story of the pressure the biggest retailer relentlessly applies to its suppliers in the name of bringing us “every day low prices.” It’s the story of what that pressure does to the companies Wal-Mart does business with, to U.S. manufacturing, and to the economy as a whole. That story can be found floating in a gallon jar of pickles at Wal-Mart.”

What was Wal-Mart’s role?

They hammered the Vlasic folks on price. The Wal-Mart folks —you know the one with the yellow smiling face — told Vlasic it would supply the gallon pickles at a retail price of $2.97 or Wal-Mart would purchase no Vlasic pickles at all. None.

The lesson that all companies should have learned from Vlasic’s experience…

“If your systems are efficient, and your people are talented, and you still can’t make a reasonable profit, let someone else have the deal. Don’t let that smiley face confuse you. Making profit is a lot more fun than Chapter 11. Hunt Foods now owns Vlasic.” ~ Dennis Schrag, Tree Full of Owls

Fortunately, my husband has become a total nut about clipping coupons and watching for the cherry items in weekly ads.  Through our savvy shopping we end up saving more at Safeway and Super-1-Foods.

I notice by using the safeway store coupons we often save a great deal on items such as toilet paper and pop.  Recently they had a sale where you bought two 12-pks and got 3 for free.  Ended up being about 2 bucks a 12 pk.  When’s the last time anyone got a 12 pk of coke or pepsi for only 2 dollars at Walmart?  We are popaholics in this household so we need to shop where we can find the best price to feed our addiction.

And some cashiers have told us about a couple of elderly ladies that have been known to walk out with a cart full of groceries nearly breaking even with coupons.  Haven’t tried it yet but supposedly they print off coupons from some grocery game website?

Screwedby,

“The fat green pickles, floating in swampy juice, look reptilian”

Yes, but they TASTE great!!

“The gallon jar of pickles is a display of abundance and excess”

Not to those who LIKE pickles and saving money!!

“But what did it do for Vlasic? The fevered buying spree that resulted distorted every aspect of Vlasic’s operations”

Does ‘fevered buying spree’, sound like people DIDN’T want to buy pickles in gallon jars?  Seems that it was a Vlasic manufacturing problem, not a gallon jar size problem?

“Indeed, as Vlasic discovered, the real story of Wal-Mart, the story that never gets told, is the story of the pressure the biggest retailer relentlessly applies to its suppliers in the name of bringing us “every day low prices”

Funny, but I saw gallon jars of Vlasic pickles on the shelf at Wal-Mart this saturday, how can that be?  You told the same story about Rubbermaid, but Wal-Mart has product on Wal-Mart’s shelves as well!!  The problem’s were with the companies, NOT WAL-MART, otherwise those products would not be at Wal-Mart NOW!!

“If your systems are efficient, and your people are talented, and you still can’t make a reasonable profit, let someone else have the deal”

And, if they CAN make a reasonable profit off the deal, it proves that your systems weren’t as efficient and your people weren’t as talented, as you thought they were!!

“Hunt Foods now owns Vlasic”

Last I heard, Hunt Foods, is making a profit and isn’t facing Chapter 11, how can that be?  How can Hunt Foods do what Vlasic couldn’t and still make money?

You know What...

You are just a FUCKING ASSHOLE, RDS!

1.---”“You told the same story about Rubbermaid, but Wal-Mart has product on Wal-Mart’s shelves as well!!  The problem’s were with the companies, NOT WAL-MART...”

The company is now known as Newell-Rubbermaid dipshit!  Wal-Mart played no small role in driving the former Rubbermaid company out of business.

2.---“Last I heard, Hunt Foods, is making a profit and isn’t facing Chapter 11.”

Vlasic Pickles was the one with Chapter 11 problems, not Hunt Foods, moron.

Wow, you really struck a nerve in Screwed with that last post.  The heat must be getting a little too hot in his kitchen when you post simple facts that he just doesn’t want to accept.  He was disbelieving that I even bought 30 packages of cheese to save money on my grocery bill.

btw, he failed to miss your point that somehow Hunt Foods can still produce those 1 gallon jars of pickels and they stay in business.  Hm… could it have been a Vlasic problem all along......

Question: How can Hunt Foods do what Vlasic couldn’t and still make money?

Answer: quality fade: the deliberate and secret habit of widening profit margins through a reduction in the quality of materials.

Of course what difference if it’s a good pickle as long as it’s a cheap pickle.

Anyone else notice Rubbermaid stuff doesn’t hold up like it used to?

I don’t know how Hunts manages to stay in business at all.  Their ketchup sucks!  I’m a Heinz girl myself.

And yes Ken, I agree that the rubbermaid stuff doesn’t hold up as well as it used to.

“Wal-Mart played no small role in driving the former Rubbermaid company out of business”

Try NO role. Only the Rubbermade is to blame for its own poor decisions. But I know it is so common that when a business kills itself due to its own stupidity to blame Wal-Mart for it.

RDS, how is the quality of the gallon jar pickles vs. the smaller jars?

As for the quality issue I don’t doubt in my mind that with price cutting there is the potential for a sacrifice in quality but there are only 2 things that can happen.

1.  The average consumer wishes to pay lower prices so they accept the sacrifice in quality

2.  The average consumer wishes for better quality so they are willing to pay for that quality, hence a world of better quality goods appears in the market place to supply that need at a price point premium.

Those 2 scenerios appear in so many types of products purchased today.  In the end it is still up to the consumer to decide what they want to buy and how much they are willing to pay for it.  Yes we’re back to the basics of supply and demand again.  It’s funny how that simple concept keeps creeping up again and again.... maybe because it’s the cornerstone of how our economy, the greatest in the world, functions.  Go figure.

Yes Mary, it’s as simple as ketchup.  I am that consumer that likes quality over quantity.  Which is why I will glady pay more for a bottle of Heinz even if I could get more Hunts for less.

Economic in e.g. You are More Full of Shit Than RDS!

1.  I bet if you could talk to the former executives of Rubbermaid, they’d tell you the only decision they regret is doing business with Wal-Mart in the first place!

2.  Rubbermaid asked Wal-Mart to accept a cost increase after the resins that Rubbermaid used too a dramatic increase.  Most of Rubbermaids other customers agreed to a cost increase.  Wal-Mart not only rejected a cost increase, they told Rubbermaid to cut their costs to boot.  When Rubbermaid refused to cut their costs, Wal-Mart showed them who was the boss and took shelf space away from them to boot.

You, or anyone else, is SO FULL OF SHIT if you deny Wal-Mart’s role in the causing problems for companies like Vlasic, Rubbermaid, and Thomson Electronics in Circleville, Ohio.

Wow, Screwed is really upset now.  What are we to do?

btw Economic in e.g.  I agree whole heartedly about Hunts vs. Heinz.  I’m Heinz all the way and am willing to pay a higher price for it.  But I love when Safeway or Safeway start to offer the $1 containers just before a summer holiday weekend.  I stock up for months since my kids love ketchup.  It goes with the cheese!  The only thing missing is the w(h)ine from Screwed!!!

Thank You SNL

To borrow an old line from Saturday Night Live…

Mary you ignorant slut!

Screwedby,

Isn’t it funny, that Tupperware is able to survive, without Wal-Mart!!  If Rubbermaid wanted to, they could have dumped Wal-Mart completely and took the path Tupperware did!!  If they didn’t, it’s their own fault, not Wal-Mart’s!!  It’s called “Making good business management decisions”, it’s the basis for ‘competition’!!

mary,

In the case of the gallon jars of pickles, you don’t have to sacrifice quality to affect price!!  Remember, a gallon jar, requires only 1 jar and 1 lid, while, say an 8 oz. jar, to produce a gallon of product, requires 16 jars and 16 lids, thus, the cost per unit, would be more for the smaller jars, than the larger jar, not to mention processing costs!!

As for Heinz vs. Hunts ketchup, that is a matter of taste, just like people prefering Ford over GM or Toyota cars, or Coke over Pepsi and vise versa!!  I usually buy ketchup from Aldi’s (house brand) and find it to be very satisfactory to MY taste, and much cheaper than either Heinz or Hunts!!  Basically, TASTE, is an aquired thing, and that’s why different manufacturers, restaurants, etc., can survive in a world of different indivdual tastes!!

Rubbermaid is a classic example of the ‘Wal-Mart Effect’. The Midas Touch in reverse. Everything Wal-Mart touches turns to crap.

Here we had Rubbermaid, the manufacturer of the highest quality plastic housewares available. If you bought a Rubbermaid laundry basket or dust pan it was heavier, stronger, lasted longer. Why? Because of chemicals added to the plastic.

When the price of the ingredient that made Rubbermaid Rubbermaid went up, Wal-Mart refused to pay the increase needed to maintain quality and the rest is history. Now you can still buy a Rubbermaid laundry basket but the handles will probably rip out.

Wal-Mart claims to be the ‘agent’ of the consumer. I must have missed the meeting where we asked Wal-Mart to sell us crappier stuff for about the same price.

quality fade: the deliberate and secret habit of widening profit margins through a reduction in the quality of materials.

If you’re interested in the Rubbermaid story type ‘rubbermaid walmart’ in your favorite search engine.

In the end, many suppliers have to choose between designing goods their way or the Wal-Mart way. “Wal-Mart really is about driving the cost of a product down,” says James A. Wier, CEO of Simplicity Manufacturing, a lawn-mower maker that decided to stop selling to Wal-Mart last fall. “When you drive the cost of a product down, you really can’t deliver the high-quality product like we have.” ~ BusinessWeek

The Depth of Your Imbecility Has No Limits, RDS!

Unreal!  Now you are comparing Wal-Mart to Tupperware.  Only you could come up with something that idiotic, RDS.

Do you have a lot of Tupperware stores in Arkansas?

Screwedby,

What an idiot you are, I was not comparing Wal-Mart to Tupperware, I was comparing Rubbermaid to Tupperware!!  You sure have a failure to grasp simple concepts!!

“Do you have a lot of Tupperware stores in Arkansas?”

No, there are no Tupperware stores here, but, there were no Rubbermaid stores either!!  Also, you can’t buy Tupperware at Wal-Mart, so, using your superior intelligence, how exactly does Tupperware SELL it’s product?  And, what was stopping Rubbermaid from doing the same thing?

Ken,

“Now you can still buy a Rubbermaid laundry basket but the handles will probably rip out.”

That sounds like a DESIGN flaw, not a material problem!!  Designing things properly, can make things stronger without changing the material content!!  It’s called using angles, shapes and bracings!!

Consider this…

True, Vlasic has gone through several hands in recent years (Campbell Soup and now, Pinnacle Foods), but the last time I checked, they are still in the pickle-making business in this country.

As for their other poster child, Rubbermaid, they, too went through a merger.

I disagree with Ken’s take on quality—in fact, if you ever take a good look at the major players in the “heavy plastics” business (e.g., Rubbermaid, Sterilite, and Step 2), all their wares are made right here in the U.S.A. (although I do wonder for how long, considering that petroleum is a key component of plastic-making).

I wondered how long it would take before these guys (Ken and Screwed) started beating those dead horses named Vlasic and Rubbermaid…

Speaking of Mr. Screwed, what’s with all the swearing and stuff?  This isn’t Fleet Week at WMW, is it??

On the other hand…

...Wal-Mart has done some pretty big things for small, lesser-known, regional companies.

Namely, giving them exposure (and new fans) they could have never imagined possible.

Anyone ever been able to find Tastykakes anywhere outside of the Mid-Atlantic (before Wal-Mart began stocking them in their stores on a nationwide level)?

“Anyone ever been able to find Tastykakes?”

I bet they rank right up there with Moon Pies, right bbrd?

“I learned I had to be careful the time we promoted the Moon Pies.  These gooey marshmallow snacks, which are real popular in the South, were another one of my great items. We charged 20 cents and sold 500,000 Moon Pies, or $100,000 worth, in one week.  The problem was everybody got carried away with my item and we shipped them to Wisconsin. Those people never heard of Moon Pies before, and they weren’t too interested in learning about them.”

~Sam Walton, p. 60, SAM WALTON: Made in America

Gee, no disrespect to “Mr. Sam,” but maybe it’s because they sounded too much like “cow pies.”

I’m sure the world is a kinder and gentler place now that Wal-Mart is bringing us “Tastykakes,” bbrd

Screwedby,

“Gee, no disrespect to “Mr. Sam,” but maybe it’s because they sounded too much like “cow pies.””

Maybe that is because the people that thought that, have the level of intelligence, that thinks the “cow jumped over the moon” is high class literature, and that is why they confuse the word “moon” with “cow”!!

...beating those dead horses named Vlasic and Rubbermaid…

Is there a statute of limitations on destroying once respected brand names?

That sounds like a DESIGN flaw, not a material problem!!

Thank you for making my point in reverse, RDS. The “DESIGN” didn’t change, the quality of the material did.

“the “cow jumped over the moon”

Do you mean to tell me that the cow didn’t jump over the moon?  Really RDS?

Maybe “those people” in Wisconsin, just knew a shitty product when they saw it.... which brings us right back to cow pies.  Moon Pies?  Again, if anyone could make a case for Moon Pies, it would be you RDS!

Screwed is right on this. What the heck is a Tastycake?

Ken V,

“Thank you for making my point in reverse, RDS. The “DESIGN” didn’t change, the quality of the material did.”

Right, the DESIGN should have changed, if the material quality did, that is a manufacturer problem, not a purchaser problem, that’s why the company failed, they didn’t compensate for reducing the product quality!!  That’s why most successful companies have Design engineers, quality control and product testing!!

Screwedby,

Have you ever eaten a “Moon Pie”?  If not, who are you to judge something you NEVER tried?  And, even if you tried one and didn’t like it, who are you to determine what people should like and what they shouldn’t?  Only a true idiot, would judge people by what they like to eat!!

econ,

Regarding Tasykakes, just ask someone from Philly—it’s a local icon, there.

“You ARE What You Eat!”

First of all RDS, I’m not going to “debate” the finer points of Moon Pies with you!

Let’s see RDS… you seem to have a taste for Moon Pies and Pickles.  What does that make you?  A puffed up sour puss?  And “mary” apparently likes her cheese.  We know that some cheese gets better with age. 

Maybe we should keep mary locked up in a cellar and she’ll improve as she ages.

I think I figured it out…

Screwed and his buddies are Southernphobes!

...they didn’t compensate for reducing the product quality!!

You are incredible, RDS. The original Rubbermaid went out of business because they refused to lower cost by reducing “the product quality”.

Designing your way out of inferior materials would be akin to alchemy, wouldn’t it? Like I said at the beginning, arguing quality with a right wing-nut is a fool’s errand.

So I just googled Tastykakes as I have never seen them here in Oregon.  They look similar to Hostess snackcakes to me.  Must be an east coast/west coast thing.  For some reason Mallomars are called something different here.  Still made by Nabisco but have different packaging and name.

Screwedby,

“Let’s see RDS… you seem to have a taste for Moon Pies and Pickles.”

For your info, I have never eaten a ‘Moon Pie’, but, I don’t say someone who has eaten them must think of them as ‘cow pies’, like you did!!  Besides, what do you have against people who eat pickles?

Guess someone who Bar-B-Q’s Garth Brooks CD’s on the grill, must think that others have strange tastes!!  Do you put sauce on them?

Ken V,

Do you know nothing about manufacturing?  There are ways to maintain strength and still reduce material quality, using design changes!!  Think about an auto, where metal parts have been replaced by plastics!!

There are ways to maintain strength and still reduce material quality...

But only to a point. You obviously know nothing about engineering...or limits....or reality in general.

The world can utter a collective sigh of relief that you’re not an architect, RDS.

...where metal parts have been replaced by plastics!!

Think about the damage and cost of a 5 mph collision. Better for whom? The autobody industry?

Crap is crap, no matter the design.

“I was comparing Rubbermaid to Tupperware!!” ~RDS

Oh, that’s different.  That makes you look less ridiculous!

“Isn’t it funny, that Tupperware is able to survive, without Wal-Mart!!”

Yeah… the Tupperware business model and the Rubbermaid business model are so similar aren’t they RDS?

If you think the 1 gallon jar of pickles was a major advancement for the pickle industry, how come we didn’t have all the other manufacturers of pickles doing exactly the same thing?  The truth is, in the pickle industry money is made by the cut, halves, spears, slices, etc. NOT by selling entire fields of cucumbers at once from a single Wal-Mart store.

You are no more an “expert” on pickles than you are in manufacturing and design.

By the way… I prefer my “Grilled Garth Brooks CD’s” plain, with a pickle on the side, of course!

So I just googled Tastykakes as I have never seen them here in Oregon.  They look similar to Hostess snackcakes to me

Pretty much - as I said, previously, they are a regional thing (Philadelphia). 

In Philly, they rank right up there with the cheesesteak.

Of course, you might find them in your local Wal-Mart, but we all know the answer to that, don’t we??