San Diego Approves Ban On Supercenters

I wonder what it is going to cost WM, in the form of pollitical contributions to Sanders next campain. Is it possibly a seat on the board? Or pehaps paid collage for the kids? Who knows what kind of deal he struck with WM. BTW I wonder if anyone knows what kind of pkg.(30 peices of silver, so to speak) Daley recieved for his VETO of the will of the people?

DAVE SMITH
PROUD UNION IRONWORKER

What sense do ordinances like this make? They hurt the people by denying them the ability to get everything they need in one place and rob people of the low costs that arise from the competition big box stores create.

If people want to live in a democracy, why should there be laws denying people the right to shop where they choose?

Ironhead,

I read that Wal-mart provides insurance for full time and part time workers. And it provides 401k’s and bonuses. It pays competitively. I believe you get sick time and vacation days. 

No seniority, I agree with that. If you have someone that has worked for 20 years doing the same exact job as someone who has worked for 6 months, why would you pay these people differently?

I worked for a union shop where you weren’t rewarded for being a good worker, you were rewarded for union seniority. I left that job after 2 years as I was tired of seeing lazy people who should have been fired walking out each week with big fat paychecks. I worked very hard and constantly had greivences filed against me and was told that I was “killing jobs”. Instead of doing something in 2 hours, the union wanted me to take 8 hours.

Dave,

For some time I have been posting here, and on the WakeUp posts.
Most of the time I’ve spent railing against Wal*Mart, not because I am pro-union, but because I protest against certain policies, procedures, and practices the current leadership of the company embraces.

In all respects I remain a neophyte, regarding unions.
I’ve never been a member, nor any my family, nor any good friends.

I guess, I should realize that when I come to a union subsidized post, I would encounter anti-union people.

But, I will be honest, I never realized the depth of hatred of unions, until I began reading and posting on blogs like this and WakeUp.

So my question to you, and any union members out there, why are you so hated?

I grew up in the South, so that being essentially non-union country, I do not have the perspective many of you have.
I do know that from a very early age growing up in the South, I learned (from good parents) a healthy distrust of those who hated certain types of groups so much.
I learned that because a person was from a certain group of people, they were not always so disposed to
social evils.

In my heart, I retain that distrust still, which propels me to try and understand the vehement hatred people have towards unions.
I do not understand.

Is it because people still think unions ruled the mob?
Is it because people think unions wrecked the US auto industry?

Please help me, I am honest as I can be, I just do not see the hatred nor the impetus of it, but then again I am a southern person.

Well rosa, can we assume that you left to go to Walmart (and are still there) where you are having all of your dreams come true due to your hard work and super strong work ethic?

Please remember those in Jonquiere Quebec Walmart store who did not even get a chance to see a decent pay check.

I am not a strong union supporter, except where one is needed.

WALMART NEEDS A UNION.

This company can not be trusted to take its workers concerns into consideration. Walmart does not want any employee to have a say in its workplace. The only way the workers will have a say is with a collective voice.
The only way.

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E

H O M E

O F

W A L M A R T

W O R K E R

A B U S E

cazar in

Of corse any explaination that I give as to why people hate the unions would be my own personal opinion. With that, I think that most of the hatred stems from the steady stream of anti-union propaganda that the companys push down the throats of the workers. So in essence it’s ignorance and fear that fules their fire. Then there is the fear of the unknown. There is also the jelousy factor, you know when some have it very good and others feel that there is no way that they are going to achieve that in there working lives, they start to feel hatred towards thoes that do.

The people that don’t know about what unions have done to make the lives of the working man so much better. They don’t relize that the unions brought us the 40 hr. work week, over time pay, safty in the work place, child labor laws, min. wage, better working conditions, workers comp, dismanteling the company store as well as company script and housing, OSHA as well as MSHA and so many others that I would be here all day.

CAZAR I can’t answer for others but in my opinion it boils down to IGNORANCE FEAR and JELOUSY in most casses. The worst part is they can have a better life with a union if they will go down to a union hall in there area and speak with a rep. One more thing that so very many don’t know is that the unions have apprentis ship pprograms that they or their kids can learn a trade while being paid a very good salry with all the bennifits while going to school. Let me say it again, instead of paying to go to a techinical school they can go through apprentis trainning and get paid to learn!!!!!

DAVE SMITH
PROUD UNION IRONWORKER

Wal Mart will pay off Sanders just like they paid off Daley.  Wal Mart always gets their way with people when they reach into their pocket.

Dave,

Thanks for your response.
I sense your heartfelt beliefs genuine.

Please welcome more of your fellow workers to step in and offer their view of the unions, so we can get a more balanced debate going on this site, because seems like the more I read the less, actual union workers post.

Thanks again.

Someone - “What sense do ordinances like this make?” Some people know, that if Wal-Mart moves into town, that not only will their shopping options dwindle to nothing, but they’ll be promoting job loss in general! Think about it.

They love talking about union bosses salaries, (some can be as high as hundereds of thousands), yet remain quiet when you hear about the company ceo/presidents that are in the tens of millions.
I also love that they keep quiet about all the company executives that are going to jail for “white collar crime”.
while talking about unions and the mob.
How embarrassing for them.

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C

H O M E

O F

W A L M A R T

W O R K E R

A B U S E

Onced Banned - Did you ever stop to think, that maybe after 12 years of House/Senate and 6 years of presidential control in the hands of the Republican party (pro-business/less government) may have played a part in job loss in America? Or were you overshadowed by the mistaken war in Iraq? The “trickle down” effect only works when it’s in the hands of the voters! Not, when it’s in the hands of people like Kenneth Lay or Jeff Skilling! You support welfare, and don’t even know it!!! Get real!!!!!!!!!!

Go U.A.W. Local 287 Muncie,IN!!!

POWER TO THE PEOPLE!!! in Muncie,IN

Not only does he (ONCE BANNED) support welfare, but he does it for the richest and very least deserving. And at the cost of the working classes pensions and retirements. Peoples life savings, hopes and dreams, all gone to support the lavish lifestyles of the corperate thieves that he worships and defends. Let me guess, your favorite line in a movie is “Greed is good” (Michael Douglas in “Wall street")

I think that it’s funny that he and others can call a person that askes for a wage that they can feed and clothe themselves as well as their kids on as “Greedy” and they defend vehemently the salarys of those that recieve tens of millions per year.  They think that a worker asking for a raise in minimum wage is GREEDY, yet defend a board member that gets a million dollar bonus while cutting the wages and bennifits of the working poor. The realy screwed up part is, they don’t even see how TWISTED their thinking is!!!!!!!

DAVE SMITH
PROUD UNION IRONWORKER

In 1989, my fellow union brothers and sisters went on strike for 7 long months, in protest to defend our retiree’s pension and health care benifits (mother’s and father’s). They had “nothing” to gain by doing this! Some lost their jobs, while others lost their lives by suicide, knowing that they could not overcome this financial burden while they were on strike for this “nobale” cause!!! There is no “GREED” when it comes to solidarity!!!

A couple of things:

As far as CEOs go, Lee Scott is relatively low paid.  He is ranked 155th.  His compensation was $8.668 million.  This is about a third of what the CEOs of Target and Home Depot make.  Just over half of the CEO of Safeway.  Heck, even the CEO of Staples makes over a million more.
http://www.forbes.com/2005/04/20/05ceoland.html

Let’s not even look at his compensation vs. the performance of the company he runs.

Second, let’s play a bit with numbers.  People bring up Wal-Marts wage quite a bit, and imply that unions will help out.  Let’s take profit, and see how much Wal-Mart could increase it’s pay across the board:
We’ll take pay increase ($/hr) x average hours worked weeks x # associates, and divide this by WM total profit.  I’ve read various reports that say about 75% of associates are full time, so I’ll just assume this.  Assuming the part timers average 20 hours per week, we can guestimate about 35 hours per week per asssociate.  Wal-mart employees 1.8 million people worldwide.
So we get:  35 hours x 1,800,000 x 52 x payraise = 11,200,000,000, which yields a total maximum pay raise of $3.41 per associate before the company reaches the zero profit level.
So the maximum across the board pay increase (in both benefits and wage) is $3.41 per associate.  If this is done, Wal-Mart doesn’t make any profit.  Wal-Mart is not all powerful. 
So the realistic possible maximum benefits associates could get is not large.  However, any union who unionizes Wal-Mart would see a huge benefit.  I’m not familiar with dues, but a friend of mine who works at Safeway said she paid $40 per paycheck to be in the union.  So a union could get $40 per paycheck x 26 payperiods x 1,800,000.  This amount is $1.872 billion per year.  Let’s not forget that an increase of pay enough to cover the dues would only leave $9.328 billion in profits to cover effective pay raises, which makes a cap of $2.85/hour for each associate to pay for all of the wonderful things the union will promise them.  And again, this amount would leave Wal-Mart completely profitless.

Finally, why the chicken littles on the economy?
First, unemployment is at a very low level (4.7%). 
Second, real median household income is rebounding from the recession (following the same path as the last 3 recessions).  No one has responded to this yet.  http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/histinc/h06ar.html
Lastly, manufacturing output is actually UP in this country.  It has been this way for many years, with the only recent exceptions in 2001 and briefly in 2003.  Losses in the manufacturing sector are mostly coming from increases in productivity.

POWER TO THE PEOPLE!!! in Muncie,IN

There are millions of storys of selflessness from our union brothers and sisters. Union men and woman have made countless sacrifices putting themselves in peril for the good of their fellow man. Taking the hardest path for the good of the masses. In so many cases it would have been very easy for them to give in to the company, to not take the beatings, to take the megar wages and not have to fear for their lives from the company thugs. It would have been all to easy to take the “DEAL"for themselves and say screw everyone else, but it takes real HERO’s to go the distance and face thugs, beatings, hunger, jail, and DEATH for an ideal that they place above themselves. For those ideals that they fight for, for everyone union or not. Ideals that they may not recieve bennifits from themselves, but that others might.

The people out there that work for a living owe a great deal of gratatude to those that given so much so that you could have a better life. Wether you are a union member or not, you bennifit from their constant vigilance toward a good and safe workplace.

We all lose when the unions fail. Just look at the states that have voted for right to work (deceptive legislation if ever there was) there wages in ALL have reduced, as have their bennifits and companys treatment towards workers. The companys that treat workers well that are not union only do so because of the threat of the unions. When the threat is gone, so is the good treatment!

DAVE SMITH
PROUD UNION IRONWORKER

Scott in

As far as CEOs go, Lee Scott is relatively low paid.  He is ranked 155th.  His compensation was $8.668 million.

Wow you put it all in perspective for me! I had no idea that Lee Scott was living on such a pittance. That settles it, I’m going to go to WM and take up a collection from the over paid cart pushers and cashiers to help him out this Christmas. The poor, poor man!

DAVE SMITH
PROUD UNION IRONWORKER

Dave, you didn’t actually respond to any of my points.  I’ll repeat:

Walmart, though big, really doensn’t have a lot of lee-way for raises.  Add in a union, and the most they could increase they pay of their associates across the board is $2.85.  This would make them not be profitable.

The economy doesn’t suck.  We’re losing manufacturing jobs due to increases in productivity.

Scott in

What you don’t seem to realize is that all of the employees are not the focus of this sight. The lowest to middle pay range are the ones that need the raises the most. But its not only the raises its the unafordable healthcare that doesn’t provide any real coverage and has huge deductables.

Much of the money that would be given in raises would be then spent in the store for luxuries such as food and diapers, you know the nonesentials of life.

DAVE SMITH
PROUD UNION IRONWORKER

Scott in

“The economy doesn’t suck.  We’re losing manufacturing jobs due to increases in productivity.”

NO SCOTT, we are losing manufacturing jobs because of the out sourcing to China, we are losing jobs because of very flawed trade agreements. We are losing manufacturing jobs, because WM strong arms and coerces companys into moving their manufactoring outside this country and streight to a comunist country (CHINA ), our former enemy, who’s government still supports our present enemys, so in essence WM through their support of China, thus supporting our present enemys. Doesn’t that kind of make WAL*MART TRAITORS durring war time? HMMMMM.

DAVE SMITH
PROUD UNION IRONWORKER

I’m confused.  You say both that Wal-Mart associates are poor, and that much of the money would be spent in the stores.  Are you saying that Wal-Mart benefits the poor?  I’ve long argued (not just here) that low cost essentials like diapers, food, and toilet paper are a huge benefit for poor Americans.  Do you agree?

Also, are you saying that a union would only benefit part of the associates?  ("all of the employees are not the focus of this sight.") If you are a union organizer, how are you going to get people to vote for you if you tell them that you won’t do anything to help them? 

Kind of a side thing, but is my number of $40/paycheck reasonable?  Like I said, that is what a friend who worked in a unionized Safeway said she paid.  Also, does anyone know if unions traditionally can rapidly get raises for employees that are enough to cover dues?  In this case, if a union got in at Wal-Mart, does history back up the idea that it would immediately get everyone the $.50/hr raise that it would take just to pay the union dues?  If not, how is this not HURTING the employees?

cazar,

“So my question to you, and any union members out there, why are you so hated?”

The truth is, most people here that are anti-union, don’t hate unions per se, it’s just that some here offer up the union as the solution to all problems.  You sound like a very intelligent person and say that you have never belonged to a union, my question is, “How did you manage to survive without union representation”?  I belonged to the Teamsters union for 12 years when I was young and served as a union organizer for 3 years at a foundry where I worked, but since then, I have worked non-union.  Here is what I have observed.  First, with a union, the union mostly extorts the gains they get from a company, if the company does not agree to the unions terms, they go on strike, what is a strike like, let’s use the words of POWER TO THE PEOPLE:

“In 1989, my fellow union brothers and sisters went on strike for 7 long months, in protest to defend our retiree’s pension and health care benifits (mother’s and father’s). They had “nothing” to gain by doing this! Some lost their jobs, while others lost their lives by suicide, knowing that they could not overcome this financial burden while they were on strike for this “nobale” cause!!!”

Now I ask you, what do you think the union leaders LOST, while its members “lost their jobs, while others lost their lives by suicide, knowing that they could not overcome this financial burden”?  The only thing they lost, was union dues for 7 months.  Think about it, is it really worth all of that for a $1.00 an hour raise (In the case of the California grocery workers, they went back with a loss)?  And, like Scott said, what good is a raise, if you have to give the money from it to a union?  The main problem with unions is, they help employees for awhile, but, in the end, put such a burden on the company financially that they either go out of business or as in the case of GM, end up owing a fortune in legacy costs, which puts them close to bankrutsy.  If a union works with a company for the benefit of both the employees and company, a union can be a good thing, but, like government officials, the power of the union rises to the top and pretty soon, they are asking for the moon and extorting the gains, or killing the company and its employees, then, they walk away with their pockets full.

Dave, we’re making more stuff:
http://www.bea.gov/bea/newsrel/gdpindnewsrelease.htm

If manufacturing output has increased then what explains this increase?  Sending jobs overseas? 

Are we at war with China?  I knew Bush liked war, and was looking into Iran and North Korea, but I hadn’t heard plans for China yet.  Secret Neo-Conservative Christmas Surprise?

Furthermore, have you ever bought anything made in China (not necessarily from Walmart)?  Does that make you a traitor?  What about oil?  Ever buy that?  Aren’t you supporting middle eastern governments?

Scott in

First off Scott I’m not a union organizer. Secondly you have put words in my mouth so to speak.

The first priority I believe should be to the employees that are currently making less than $10.00 but the union members and the union would have to work out their own contracts as to the companys. thats the power of 1 man 1 vote.

As far as WM being such a bennifit to the poor, on the items that you listed, they are cheaper at DOLLAR GENERAL. I just happen to know that WM employees would tend to spend any extra that they have where they work.

Any union membership bennifits all employees union or not. The stronger the unions in any given area, the better the wages, bennifits, and treatment of the workers.

DAVE SMITH
PROUD UNION IRONWORKER

Dave,
I notice that as a proud union worker you are proud to boast that you are in full support of a minimum wage.  I think that would be great if we all made 8.68 million or whatever the ceo at wal-mart makes.  Don’t you..... The thing about the minimum wage as mandated by a government is that it doesn’t do anything really… it does do some things in the short run, but in the long run we are really just disguising things. 

Short Run you raise the minimum wage to some centrally planned figure.... lets be generous, lets say 20 bucks.  What do you think will happen?  People will run into the streets and celebrate!  Right?  That is awesome, everyone is making 20 bucks an hour.  Well at least those people worth 20 bucks an hour.  The rest that aren’t worth it… well they will be let go.  Unemployment will rise and the people who were being paid the least, the ones who outside of unions and communism, the least productive or least important and lowest skilled workers will be the first to go. 

Imagine that Dave?  You run a business… lets keep it simple, a small business with five employees.  You invested a lot of time and money into this business.  You knew that there would be risks but the rewards of being in business for yourself.  Living the American dream would be worth it.  You work hard, your crew works hard.  You put up metal buildings.  I won’t pretend to have any idea of what a person like this would make but it is probably some amount he determined was worth the risk.  Meaning that if he wasn’t making X amount per week or year then it would be more benificial for him to go to work for someone else.  He is a good honest man… such as yourself… He wants to be a good boss, take care of his men, offer them the best he can.  He pays them 15$ an hour which i don’t know but assuming that would probably be a respectable wage for a laborer.  The government steps in and says oh, you have to pay 20$ an hour now.  Well no big deal.... like i said taking care of his men is what he is all about.  After a couple of weeks, maybe months he notices that his profits (His wages) are dropping.  He has two options, well more but two appear most logical....

Raise Prices
Reduce Cost

Raising the price is okay, there is some room to budge there.  A few more months go buy… sales are dropping because of this inflated price.... He lowers the cost to bring up sales but he has to do something… He isn’t making as much money as he could working for the big construction company in town.... Well, he really enjoys being in business for himself

OPTION 2:  Reduce cost… let the least skilled worker go… its hard but he has to stay in business and provide work for the other four guys or they will all be out of work… so now the least skilled lowest paid worker is unemployed…

This isn’t a novel Dave, It is reality… look at the statistics during the time that minimum wage rose the least unemployment was the lowest ever! 

During the time the minimum wage rose the most unemployment was as high as it has ever been. 

This is true, not fiction.  Dave, i am all for people getting a better life. 

Just because you change the bottom doesn’t mean that it goes away.  it just moves.  There will always be a bottom.  If a government could mandate better lives by increasing the minimum wage then we should all be screaming at the top of our lungs at every politician for not DEMANDING we make the minimum wage 200 dollars an hour!

I just read a terrific article that all of you anti wal mart people will love!!!!!  It is how wal-mart is actually hurting the poor!!!!!!!  Really it is i am not being sarcastic… you should all read it!  Especially you Dave, it is about minimum wage and how wal-mart is encouraging congress to raise the minimum wage.  I thought it was great… It really is a blow for me for wal-mart to do something that low down!  I might side with you all on very little but here i must agree wal-mart is wrong about this!

http://www.fee.org/in_brief/default.asp?id=884

Bruce Davis in Conway, AR

Gosh Bruce, you’re right. Lets help every one out and just enslave the lowest 10% of wage earners, pay them nothing, feed them scraps and put their kids to work in the feilds. That would help out the economy tremendously! Shoot,.... then we could implement a breeding program, hell with the help of science ( we could use science just this one last time before we kill all the scientists in the name of GOD… AMEN BROTHER) we could probably start them reproducing at the age of 6 or 7 and have multiple births too boot. I heard a guy on FOX say that they don’t have fealings the way that we do, it must be true. We would be doing them a favor, you know taking care of them that way. You know they are not very smart and they don’t have the same wants or needs as the rest of us. They ought to be thankful that we allow them to live at all.

Man I think you are on to somthing!..... Or should I say, ON SOMTHING!!!!!!!!!!

(One rediculas post deserves anouther)

DAVE SMITH
PROUD UNION IRONWORKER

wow dave, i am not sure where i went wrong.  I wasn’t trying to incite a riot or anything.  I was attempting to have a well thought out debate based on my opinions on minimum wage and why they are detrimental to low skilled workers and i thought your side was that they were a good way to help raise living standards for the poorest.  If i am barking up the wrong tree then forgive me.  I thought more of you than that last post, perhaps you were just tired.  Give me a second chance.  I am not really sure where you were going with all of that stuff.... I didn’t realize my post was so “rediculas”.

Bruce Davis in Conway, AR

Bruce tell me if I’m wrong.......Don’t I remember you saying a few months back that you had tryed to get in a union on more than one occation? What happened? what kind of work do you do? I am being quite serious here. If you are stll interested in joining one I may be able to be of help. If I am remembering your post wrong, I’m sory.

DAVE SMITH
PROUD UNION IRONWORKER

no dave, i have never tried to join a union.  I don’t know where that might have been misconstrued.  My father was in a union local 516 textile workers for several years while i was growing up but he got promoted to salary and that ended that.  I do landscaping and own my own business and attend college.  I did electrical work for a couple of years for Arnold and Blevins a non-union shop in Little Rock back in 2001-2002.  I think you must be confusing me with someone else.  I am very much against unions however, i don’t profess to know all of the ins and outs of them.  I do understand that their goals are to promote better wages for their members i just feel that by doing so they encourage companies to hire non-union shops because wages are lower.  My father and i have talked in depth about his experiences in a union and his stance in favor of unions so my ideas aren’t something that have been drummed into my head for several years or anything.

bruce davis,

The problem you have in trying to debate with Dave, is that he thinks unions are the greatest thing since sliced bread and anyone who sees things differently from him are anti-labor and anti-American.  He refuses to even look at ‘cause and effect’, nor does he see the possibility of any outcome other than what he believes.  That is why he rants with things like companies, ‘killing their workers’, starting ‘breeding programs’, and putting people into permanent slavery.  He refuses to even look at the fact that in areas where wages are higher, so is the cost of living, thus eraseing most of the wage gains.  He also tends to look at everything from the workers point of view, no matter what effect that may have on the company, as if the company shouldn’t have any rights and should be the slave to their employees.  Lastly, he looks at things with a static point of view, that if you give a person a dollar, that’s where it ends, with the person having a dollar more.  But, we all know there is more to it, wage raises, increase inflation, raise cost of living, entice others to want pay raises, raise operating costs to employers (thus raising prices or cutting back on labor), and have lasting effects as we can see clearly by the fact that a worker back in the ‘50’s could support a family of 9 with one job, while today, a worker with a family of 4, has a hard time, with two people working, yet, the wages have increased from $1.25 an hour back then, to $11.00 an hour now.  Somehow Dave and others only see INCREASE WAGES, but tend to ignore what the effect of that will be, because it HAS to be positive, doesn’t it?  After all, isn’t MORE always better?

Isn’t it funny how when someone like Boob gets a little he trys so hard to keep anyone else from having the same. Boobs greed sickens me. He know that the less that the poor have the more that his money is worth. So he is on a mission to make his money worth as much as possible, no matter what that costs the poor and underprivelaged.

As for my sarcastic post with Bruce, it was to show how ridulas it sounds to hear his example of $200.00 min wage. He went to an extreme, so then did I. Sory Boob that the sarcasm was over your head. I thought that I made it obvious enough for even you to catch it. Ill try to be more transpairent just for you in the future.

DAVE SMITH
PROUD UNION IRONWORKER

IRONHEAD,

“Boobs greed sickens me. He know that the less that the poor have the more that his money is worth.”

And, just HOW does the poor having LESS, make my money worth MORE, explain that to me, will you?  And, when was the last time Wal-Mart CUT wages?

“So he is on a mission to make his money worth as much as possible, no matter what that costs the poor and underprivelaged.”

If this were true, shouldn’t the ‘poor and underprivileged’ make it their mission to make THEIR money worth as much as possible?  Or, is it not important to them?  And, what is wrong with making your money stretch as far as it can?

“As for my sarcastic post with Bruce, it was to show how ridulas it sounds to hear his example of $200.00 min wage. He went to an extreme, so then did I.”

Scarcastic?  If you were being sarcastic, you must be sarcastic with most of your posts, as you constantly talk about slave labor, company stores, companies killing their employees, etc., so, are you saying that you don’t really mean the things you usually say?

See, the problem you have, is you have a one track mind, which only sees ONE point of view.  You don’t even want to hear another side and reject what others who disagree with you, even though the Reality is out there plain to see.  You talk about people making low wages, but, refuse to see that those wages are no lower than others in the sector.  You disagree with experts, who say that Trade is “good” for this country.  You call China an enemy of the U.S., based simply on the fact that they have a different form of government then we do.  And, you refuse to see what is happening with unionized companies across the country and point out that it must be managements fault, never the union, even though it has been shown many times (even on this site), that the failures are the result of generous union gained pensions, benefits and wages. As I said, you even can’t see that people who used to make $1,25 an hour were able to support their larger families and people today, making almost 10 times as much can’t support even smaller families, and you can’t say why, (except that they should be paid more), because you refuse to look at the fact that higher wages cause higher inflation, higher cost of livings and make the dollar worth less.  What is a dollar worth today, compared to a 1950’s dollar, do you know and do you care?

To you, if we just turn a blind eye to reality, and promote fantasy, everything will turn out better, just keep on raising wages and benefits and those lost jobs will return home, just keep charging to a credit card (the economy) and soon, you won’t owe anything anymore, get real, won’t you!!

Good news. I had the opportunity to speak to a couple of people. One was a person on Tuesday, and another today.
Can’t say I made any converts. These people were all ready there. They both will not shop at Walmart.  Each person told me about Walmart is not a company that we should support.
I knew all that facts that they were telling me, but I just listened so they could get their feelings out.
Very refreshing to hear others tell it like it is.

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C

H O M E

O F

W A L M A R T

W O R K E R

A B U S E

In calculating CEO pay, one should look at the TOTAL compensation package

Wal*Mart L. Scott $15,681,507 CGQ 62.2%
Target R. Ulrich $16,555,466 CGQ 93.2%
Home Depot R. Nardelli $37,862,312 CGQ 99.8%
Safeway S. Burd $9,994,657 CGQ 80.4%
Staples R. Sargent $9,252,773 CGQ 42.6%

Income sources: Executive PayWatch
CGQ sources: Institutional Shareholder Services
ISS ( CGQ) evaluates the strengths, deficiencies and risks of a company’s corporate governance practices.

Clearly there is a correlation between CEO compensation and corporate performance (except for in this menu, the anomalies of Scott and Sargent).

It is precisely Lee Scott’s performance, that has institutional investors wringing their hands.
Whatever compensation L. Scott gets it is clearly too much based on his abilities as a CEO.

CEO pay is a big joke. Company executives used to be paid on average 40 times the workers. Now it is 400 times, and some are around 1000 times.
Everyone should remember these hypocrites when they talk about control of costs (everyone’s except theirs).

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C

H O M E

O F

W A L M A R T

W O R K E R

A B U S E

Dave,

I’m not trying to put words in your mouth, just the logical consequence of the words you say.  If Wal-Mart’s buying from the chinese is traitorous, then wouldn’t anyone who buys something from an ‘enemy’ be a traitor?

Just one curiosity--Do you think that Dollar General employees are union?  Wanna bet that starting pay is higher at Wal-Mart than at Dollar General?

And are you ever going to respond about how we as a country are not so bad off in manufacturing or as an economy as a whole?

Alex,

“One was a person on Tuesday,”

If they were a person on Tuesday, what were they the rest of the week, a MOOSE?

Dave, I didn’t realize that my comment about 200 bucks an hour was what enraged you to go astray.  If minimum wage being raised could actually increase the living standards then why is that so absurd?  Am i wrong here?  Do you think that government mandated wage prices actually produce beneficial results to the poorest?  If you do then why do you not think that the government should raise it even higher?  What is ridiculous is the idea that governments can mandate fairness. 

This is how these debates always go on here, one person says one thing the other person counters and then ten people jump in with something totally irrelevent and the discussion is distorted to a point that any point that anyone tries to make is in vain.  On both sides.

I was once in a union plant doing a quality project and witnessed a manufacturing line go down.  I asked why it wasn’t being started back up?  The response was “we need those supplies from over there and the person who gets them is on break.” No one else can get them.  I was also told if I went and got them I would not be allowed back in the plant.  So everyone sat there and waited.

Union plants pretty much stiffle any possibility of improvements or efficiency gains.  It is why Ford and GM will be out of business (or taken over) within 10-15 years.  My job is now to teach and implement the Toyota Production Method to plants.  I will not go into a union plant because it is hopeless to try to make the productivity gains in that environment to make them competitive.

Unions were once very necessary in the US because of terrible working conditions and I am grateful for the sacrafices of the people in the past but union have outlived their usefullness.  They have got to go or else companies will have no choice but to explore manufacturing outside the US.  I am young and I want manufacturing to be in the US for a long time.  Union plants will not be competitive in a global economy.

Hey jerry, you hang out at the zoo too much. For the most part people talk to people.

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C

H O M E

O F

W A L M A R T

W O R K E R

A B U S E

unions have got to go in arkansas....  you said that you teach the toyota production method to plants now.  I was discussing that with a professor the other day and he said that toyota said to anyone who wanted to come watch how they make toyotas.  Every step of the way.  He said that they had this intangible “IT” that couldn’t be mimicked a core competency i believe it was.  I thought that was pretty neat you have companies like coca cola and tootsie roll that for their life time won’t let people know how or with what their products are made and toyota is saying oh yeah here it is, this is how we do it.  bet you can’t do it like we do.  That is pretty bold. 

Alex, that was pretty funny what jerry said!

Yes Bruce, I suppose that he could not come up with anything else, but I did enjoy it.

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C