That Explains Everything

His living wage is the $19 million I suspect. We all should be so lucky.

And the point of the story was........ what?

-Richard K

Neither does most of his employees!

Does anyone know what a living wage is? McDonalds employees live on minimum wage which is half of Wal-Marts average wage paid. Personally, I think WalMart employees are paid too much to stock shelves and be a cashier. As a shareholder, I’ve been writing letters asking Lee Scott to decrease wages and increase the stock dividend.

Timmy, Did Lee Scott answer your letter?  What did he say?

Tim, I wrote to Wal-mart. Guess what, I NEVER heard back from them. And you too will never hear back from them Wal-mart has changed. This is not the same Wal-mart Sam Wal-mart use to run. Money is their God now. They don’t care about their enter level workers. Most of these people are treated like crap. In my opinion a living wage at Wal-mart for entry level people is around $10.00 an hour. Are the wages paid to entry level workers at Wal-mart in rural areas less than urban areas? Does anyone know?

Wal-Mart reports that the “average” pay is $10. They are using different and confusing “averages” in their formulas. Let’s see the fine print of how they get that average. Bet you would be amazed at their math. I bet folks would be shocked at the base starting pay and how long (years) it takes to reach that “average” $10 an hour pay scale. Did you know that the most people can receive in their yearly evaluation pay raise included is max of 60 cents, note this does not include managers. And not everyone qualifies? That’s right! So a yearly pay raise can be as low as 5 cents per hour. Shocking indeed.

“So a yearly pay raise can be as low as 5 cents per hour. Shocking indeed”

I think that is absolutely shocking.  I know when I have had my annual evaluations and I did not get as much a raise as I think I deserved and I knew I could do better or find better working conditions elsewhere I ended up leaving for another job.  I think all Walmart workers should do the same.  If you aren’t happy with your pay rate, pay raises, working conditions, satisfaction with your job etc. then you should move on to another job.  If Walmart does not treat or pay it’s employees fairly then they will have a much smaller pool of potential employees and will have to change or they will suffer the consequences of a labor shortage.

-Richard K

Sam Walton rode around in a red pick up truck.  H L Scott has the corporate jet.  Mr. Sam is spinning in his grave.  H L Scott is making 125 million dollars in stock options and benefits and bonuses I guess he thinks that is a minium wage job. 
Wal Mart put a freeze on wages unless you go to the next suck up position.  No more raises and no merit raises.  So there is no reason to give if you do not receive.  The company tells you when you will eat, when you can go to the bathroom and what to say and what to think.  Attitude is everything and at Wal Mart it is the pitts. Greed is the force that runs the engine that takes the money.  Vasaline is their drug of choice so they can put it to the cusotmers and put it to their associates.
Customers and Associates have family and friends who work for Wally’s twisted managers who get $75,000 and bonuses for not caring about the customer or the associates. 
Hey go ahead let them have there way they are laughing all the way to the bank.  Everyone is afraid to take a stand.  So Wal Mart always wins.  They are in the government and in the courts and they keep on keeping on.  Cheap is cheap and trash is trash, you go Wal Mart.

Give Lee credit. How can someone who had to make ends meet with just 19 million a year, possibly know how much a loaf of bread and some milk costs for the kids?  Lee is from a different world.  One that does not have any limits to what one can get unlike the majority of WM employee’s. Money for just daily living can not be appreciated by those with abundance.

adate me and make me lose my smile.  I refuse to back down for my beliefs.  walmart has always been affordable to the working class.  Nobody ever came to walmart for name band stuff.  They dont want it.  THe want affordable.
My biggest complaint is they are gonna run us in the ground and were gonna be like Kmart.  Go under. I am scared along with my fellow assocaites. 
Now we have no layaway.  The poor mans charge card. I really wish there was a rule the only people that could work in corprate and make decisions were people who worked there way up and started out at minimum wage.  We all know how to run a store.  How to treat a customer. How to keep things stocked. How to treat our fellow associates.  We are not TARGET.  People bring their kids and wear flipflops and cuss and yell and spend a lot of money in layaway for back to school ,christmas, easter birthdays etc.
Change.  My store manager said Sam
Walton would like change and say change is good and want us to ROLL with it.  Whatever.  Why change things.  So are colors all match thru the store?? customers wont notice we raised our prices 50 cents to 2/3 dollars on stuff because were changing our look? how many more billions do they need.  They always worry about us making sales.  Every product we sell we have just made a profit..  Look at mark ups they have increased too. 
I want our ceo and corp officails to acknowlge I get paid 10.75 an hour.  I want them to know how I cover layaway, jewerly, fabrics and crafts, and shoes.  I jump on register when needed. I smile and help each customer the best I can .  I apologize because they had to wait.  I get cussed at shoved and I keep on smiling and helping because that is my job.  I am old school walmart and believe.  However I am doing the job of 5 people.  I get my dept mgrs duties done before I go home every day.  I zone I smile I get returns I smile.  I know that there is not one person in corprate that could hang dealing with our job.  So I may only make 10. an hour compared to there million dollar salary. however I am proud to know I am human and I still care about the customer, my fellow assosiatte, pride in my job.  I know how it feels to so something good for a customer, feels good to help a friend at work and it feels could to get my dept lookin’ good.  THe corprate fools will never ever know how to respond to a code white, a code adam.  They will never get to experience the good gossip at break and never feel appreciated like I do. 
I know some will survive the changes some will move on.  I myself am keeping my options open at the moment.  Not sure of what to do.  I love my walmart family I work with but I worry about our future.  However I will be damned if a million dollar ceo is gonna iintim

Still Smilin in Indiana - I recently visited the local Wal-Mart (Because my usual grocery store is not open after midnight), to purchase a couple grocery items. After not going into a Wal-Mart for some time now, I noticed the obvious increase in prices that you speak of. Not only were their grocery items not any cheaper, but in some cases, were more expensive than my usual grocery store. Keep in mind, my usual grocery store, is a union employer that offers a living wage/affordable health care, plus, competitive prices to boot! After building not one, but two supercenters here in Muncie,IN, many small chains up to the larger chain stores have vanished, all due to competition from the two Wal-Mart supercenters. Now that alot of their competition is gone, the obvious has happened; the community has fewer choices to choose from, and Wal-Mart has raised their prices considerably! The only benifactors of this cut-throat business practice, are the top shareholders, not one’s local community!!!

Dunno-

Wal-Mart reports that the “average” pay is $10. They are using different and confusing “averages” in their formulas. Let’s see the fine print of how they get that average. Bet you would be amazed at their math. I bet folks would be shocked at the base starting pay and how long (years) it takes to reach that “average” $10 an hour pay scale.

What a preposterous assertion!  “Average” can only mean one thing.  There is no special math to get to it.  I swear some of you people need to take a class in statistics.

Did you know that the most people can receive in their yearly evaluation pay raise included is max of 60 cents,

Which is a nickel more than it used to be.

And not everyone qualifies? That’s right! So a yearly pay raise can be as low as 5 cents per hour. Shocking indeed.

Richard, there is a reason you find this claim “shocking.” It’s not true.  Annual evaluations rate your overall performance as substandard, adequate, or exceptional, and your raise is nothing, $.40, or $.60 depending on which you fall into.  You also get an evaluation after your first 90 days.  If you disagree with your evaluation, you are free to take it up with the next level of management.

WELL FOR STARTERS. MY SISTER WORKS IN A WAL-MART SHE HAS BEEN THERE FOR 5 YRS SHE ONLY MAKES 8:50 AN HOUR AND HOLDS THE JOB TITLE AS A DEPT MANAGER. SHE WORKS TWO DEPTS AND HAS NO HELP. ONE IS INFANTS AND LITTLE GIRLS. SHE HAS THE DUTIES OF PROCESSING CLOTHING, WORKING FREIGHT, ORDERING FORMULA, CHANGING OUT ANY THING THAT THE PAPER PUSHERS IN BENTONVILLE FEEL WE NEED TO DO NOW MIND YOU I TAKE CARE OF ALL MY CUSTOMERS GET RETURNS AWNSER PHONES, AND MIND YOU THE 2,000.00 PRICE CHANGES THEY DECIDE TO THROW AT ME WEEKLY. I SUGGEST THEY THROW LEE SCOTT IN A WAL MART DOOR GIVE HIM A SMOCK PAY HIM THE 8.50 AN HOUR AND SEE JUST HOW LONG HE CAN DO WHAT WE DO. MAYBE THEN HE WILL KNOW HOW IT FEELS TO BE LIED ABOUT.

Walmart sucks.

I am in full agreement with still smilin in indiana.
I have been with the company for almost 10 years. I have not even reached the $11.00 an hour mark.
I used to take pride in my job and enjoyed going to work. But for the past 2-3 years, it is like an act of congress to get motivated to even go there. With all the changes that have been going on, we are all nervous each day what they will tell us. We were officially told this week that we will have to start wearing a uniform. Supposedly we are in a test district, and they are going to try out and see how making everyone wear uniforms will work out. Dark blue shirt, and khaki pants. This job code will affect all job codes. From the door greeters, to the 2nd shift in-stock team that unloads the trucks.
We’ve also been told that Home Office is doing away with Department Managers and making them Area Managers. Which is basically that they are still department managers, but they have more than one department. And instead of working Monday-Friday 7am-4pm, they will have to work some nights closing, and working weekends.
Not to mention the whole “pay class” situation. When the pay class went into effect a couple years ago, I did not get one cent. I am on the in-stock team. I do that job, the lead’s job, and well as dry grocery department manager duties.
I enjoy my jobs and what I do. I take great pride in WHAT EVER I do. I am also old school. I try to teach my associates to take pride in what they do because it’s more than just their job… it is a reflection upon themselves. Taking ownership in their area. That is what my entire Wal-Mart history and reputation is based upon. I have worked hard to get to where I am now, and it is really frightening to look back and see where Wal-Mart has come from, and where they are now.

thank u hopeinbama
I have never been one to wal mart bash.  I have never been on thses sites.  However I am lookin for answers and I see there is so many of us in this together.  We are just happy to have a job and do our best however our best is never enough now. we whisper in the halls and talk outside the store but no one will stand up and say HEY! THis is not how Sam would want this.  Is there one item in your store american made???  I cant find anything.  I know things are never ever going 2get better and I keep riding the storm out however the customers are not.  They are getting fed up with long lines, no one being on the floor, the product not stocked because we are on register or at some pointless meeting for 45 minutes to an hour. They are fed up with employees attitudes and managers blank stares.  No layaway.  What happened to low prices?? Comp?? Oh I forgot.moving affordable merchandise to make room for designer champagn flute for 2.94 to a floral topiary for 39.97 ( can someone tell me what a topiary is???) read usa today.  I am sure there will be a rush to get these items

HOPEINBAMA well let me just tell you they lied to you. we got the cap off on pay roll about a month ago and got the news on the uniforms today. area managers will start soon it is in effect in some stores already around us. (wal-mart sux). it is not a pilot program it is a way of controlling us and the sad part is that we are letting them. hey did your layaway department get told that in january they will not exist. (wal-mart sux) for us poor folks that are barley getting by that is how i get my children’s christmas. see my name is not lee scott and i don’t have the luxuary of picking what credit cards i want to use. i thought the moral was just down in our stores.  now i get to see that it is all over the world. the associates in all corners of the world need to ban together and stage a walk out day.  we need to show them that we are not going to take this laying down. and tim i suggest to you go and work for wal-mart running a register, pushing shopping carts in in 100 degree weather, running the customer service desk handling returns, money grams and irrate customers all at the same time and maybe you wouldn’t give too cents about that dividend!

Dunno, you wrote, “ Did you know that the most people can receive in their yearly evaluation pay raise included is max of 60 cents, note this does not include managers. And not everyone qualifies? That’s right! So a yearly pay raise can be as low as 5 cents per hour.”

If you are going to post on ths blog, please post the facts!!  There are no “5 cent” raises at WM...you don’t know what you are talking about.  Please prove me wrong!!  I can’t wait to read the reply!!

“H L Scott is making 125 million dollars in stock options and benefits and bonuses (posse in)”

“Give Lee credit. How can someone who had to make ends meet with just 19 million a year (Alex)”

Which is it, $19 million or $125 million, there’s a differece I think?  Like $106 million!!!

Alex,

“Money for just daily living can not be appreciated by those with abundance.”

Is that so?  You are comparing apples with oranges, A Company CEO, compared to a floor worker.  Want to compare how those with abundance don’t appreciate money for just daily living?  I was talking once to a person from Viet Nam, he said the “average living wage” over there is about $5,000.00 a year, so, I would guess that to them, a person who makes $17,000.00 a year, like a typical Wal-Mart worker does, must be living like a ‘KING’, those greedy associates, probably don’t, “possibly know how much a loaf of bread and some milk costs for the kids”, right?  Guess they live in a DIFFERENT WORLD!!!  Try to put things in perspective, will you?

POWER TO THE PEOPLE,

“Not only were their grocery items not any cheaper, but in some cases, were more expensive than my usual grocery store.”

If this is true, then your usual store should take advantage of that fact and advertise that they have lower prices than Wal-Mart.  As your usual store is union, have the employees suggest this and if it is as has been said, that the ‘employees have a say in how the business is run’, and in no time, they should be doing more sales then they can handle and Wal-Mart’s sales should start going down.  That is what ‘competition’ is all about.

Still Smilin in Indiana - I recently visited the local Wal-Mart (Because my usual grocery store is not open after midnight), to purchase a couple grocery items. After not going into a Wal-Mart for some time now, I noticed the obvious increase in prices that you speak of. Not only were their grocery items not any cheaper, but in some cases, were more expensive than my usual grocery store. Keep in mind, my usual grocery store, is a union employer that offers a living wage/affordable health care, plus, competitive prices to boot! After building not one, but two supercenters here in Muncie,IN, many small chains up to the larger chain stores have vanished, all due to competition from the two Wal-Mart supercenters. Now that alot of their competition is gone, the obvious has happened; the community has fewer choices to choose from, and Wal-Mart has raised their prices considerably! The only benifactors of this cut-throat business practice, are the top shareholders, not one’s local community!!!

POWER TO THE PEOPLE!!! in Muncie,IN

OK!!b More garbage!!  If you union blockheads had any facts at all, you might be dangerous!!  Please tell me more about these price increases after locals closed!  Again, I can’t wait!!!

DANNY, are you “you” or are you your sister??  Which is it??

So, if a “living wage” is around $10.00 per hour, that’s about $400 weekly.  Compare that to $8.00 per hour, which is $320 weekly.  That makes the difference between “living” and “poverty” only $80/week?? 

I know with that $80 per week I could get a nice house, nice car, good health insurance, etc.!!  WOW!!!!

did they announce the time and attendance to you all
not even with a dr. excuse is your absence or leaving early
approved. sad

what we should do is pick a day and all call in sick its
unapproved.  and let them know how muck we as associates
do for the company.  the respect we deserve from the
company is not there any more.

yes as associates we ALL should. hey did any of yall and yes i said yall (lol) get the message that in a couple of weeks instead of calling in to the stores that we will have to start calling in to home office and then if 7 in a year that the system would automatically terminate us (lol) that we would not have to deal with managment.  that is some crap. they are doing that because not all states is like north carolina a right to work state. that is why wal-mart associates need the union that and the benefits. and pay well i guess the list could go on .  and someone just pick a day and TRUST ME the associates at the store that i work at and the surrounding ones will know about the call-out day

$10 an hour my a$$. I’ve been working at walmart for amost 3 years now, and am only making nine bucks. I’ve moved up to a dept. manager and the only thing I got out of it was 50 cent!!! I usually leave work so stressed out, I just go home and drink.

Wow the venom that spews from no less then 9 “seperate” people in a matter of 6 hours.  I’ve watched this board and have never seen that pattern. <g>

I do have only one question for all of the “Walmart workers” talking about how hard they work, how little they are respected and how little they are paid for their YEARS of service......IF IT IS SO BAD WHY DON’T YOU LEAVE?????????  If I worked at a job for 10 years and watched it go down hill over those 10 years then shame on me for still staying there.  You are your own worst enemy and only gives Walmart more ammunition to say “see our workers love their job so much they stay for years”.

If the job stinks and you are unhappy… LEAVE If you think they don’t pay you enough… LEAVE If you know you deserve better and can do better… LEAVE

-Richard K

i have been out there looking andihave had several interviews and to be honest it is hard out there to find something so i have ventured out to different counties that is surrounding us. and i think i have found something (hopefully) if all goes well i had a offer to start out doing the same type of job for $2.00 more a hour. so i am going to keep my fingers crossed. let me just say this last thing to you richard if you don’t like this website GO SOMEWHERE ELSE. we need somewhere we can go and just let it out to people who understand and people who don’t know others in our stores (to where we don’t get in trouble ) and we are not what they love to call gossiping. and yes i am guilty i have stayed with a company for years but at first it was not bad it just started out slowly going downhill and then it flew down the hill.  i love the people i work with.  they are my family. my daughter has grown up with them and their kids with us .  so it shows that they do hire good people.  just the ones in home office sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!

Everyone seems to argue that Wal-Mart provides these horrible jobs.  However, has anyone looked at the number of layoffs in the US this year? 538,000 people have lost their jobs in the first 8 months of this year. How many employees has Wal-Mart laid off?  What is the price of job security? 

Is it really about the money?  Is it really about the benefits?  How much is enough?  Will the critics be happy if Wal-Mart paid all their cashiers/stockers/dept. managers...etc. $20/hour?  Probably not, because Lee Scott still makes more, the guy down the road still drives a nicer car, has a nicer house has a better looking wife to go with that nice boat.  However, no one wants to do what it takes to be Lee Scott or that guy down the road.  They want it handed to them on a silver platter.  Has anyone ever heard of “earn a living?” Yep, you guessed it, that means you have to earn it.  If you want more money, YOU have to do what it takes to earn it.  Get an education, learn something new, and be better than the people around you.

This isn’t about Wal-Mart.  This is about people not wanting to better themselves and then blaming someone else for their pathetic life.  This is what America is built on, right? Blame someone else for your problems and possibly get some money out of the deal.

Can it not be any clearer?

IF YOU DON’T LIKE WHAT YOU DO, DON’T DO IT!!!!!

shameonwalmart in north carolina,

I don’t dislike this site at all.  I may not always agree with other posts and that leads to discussions.  I also don’t have a problem with people venting because I need to vent just like the next guy.  I have worked many jobs that at one time I loved then needed to move on for a multitude of reasons.  I also applaud you for doing something about your life situation, what ever it is, but you know what… you are putting the effort in and that I respect completely and hope you do get the new job.  I also encourage any and all other Walmart associates (or any company) to do the same thing you are doing.  It is up to you to take care of yourself.  If Walmart is treating people so badly then they in time will suffer the consequences.  But Walmart is not unique in this sense because it is happening to many people working for many companies who also have little respect for their associates.  If you don’t like the situation you are in then change it.

-Richard K

Home Office Bentonville AR

What you did to the employee’s in Jonquiere Quebec will NEVER be forgiven. 

Canadians and all working people. Do not support a company that doesn’t respect the law of the land. This company thinks it’s above the law. It insults every Canadian.

Walmart, go home.

People like Lee Scott can’t possibly relate to people at the bottom, and that’s why he doesn’t know what a living wage is - he doesn’t have to worry about it - EVER!  Even if the company were to tank tommorrow, he’d still have enough money.  Tim, how does it feel to take food out of people’s mouths, or kick them out on the street?  Why don’t you try walking a mile in someone else’s shoes for a while?  In my opinion you are a bloodsucking parasite.  Besides, underpaid employees are employees who don’t give a damn, and they are the ones that are making you your unearned income.  I love how the argument before was “I don’t see any Wal-Mart employees on here complaining”, well, I guess that’s changing, isn’t it?  As far as raises go, I didn’t make what I should have made (in addition to being screwed in other ways, which I’m trying to fix), but what could I really have done?  I’m trying to fix the other problems right now, and management does nothing.  With my particular situation, I should be given a raise and receive back pay, and I should get the chance to move up to a certain position that they are probably going to give to someone off of the streets, but none of that is happening (although I’m going to keep trying, I won’t let them get away with it, even if it costs me my job).

If I could leave, I would.  I can’t, I have nowhere else to go at the moment, and that doesn’t excuse the b.s. going on at an employee’s store.  If your employer is crappy, your complaints are legitimate and you shouldn’t just let them get away with it, you should try to fight it first before just leaving.  As far as statistics go, that’s irrelevant.  Let’s put it like this, do most Wal-Mart employees make that amount?  If you were to go even to ten stores, and poll the associates inside, how many would be making that amount?  I don’t care about theories on paper, I care about what’s actually happening.

Michael D, that’s a lot of money when you are paid low wages.  That could be an entire bill that’s taken care of for the month.  It could allow you to eat better food, actually do something for fun or leisure, pay for gas, etc.  In fact, it can mean the difference between ending up on the street or paying your rent that week.  However, since that is SUCH a TRIVIAL amount, then what’s the problem with paying it?  If it’s such chump change it should be no problem at all for Wal-Mart to pay it.  Or, how about we remove a comparable from your paycheck, or even $80.00, since it’s so trivial?  You can remove your foot from your mouth now.

Wow!  I have to say it is amazing how skewed some people’s opinions are of Wal-Mart.  I’m not saying I agree with everything they do, but at least I’ll get my facts correct.  For the record there is no such thing as a 5 cent raise.  It doesn’t exist, plain and simple.  Yes, on one end you get 60 cents, on the other end is a below company standard evaluation that only gives a 40 cent raise.  That’s right even if you suck at your job, you get a raise.  And if you are one who has fail victim to having a raise below 60 cents, then why didn’t you say something.  It’s not like there aren’t venues at which you can take your grievance.  I’m not going to be niave enough to think every store is honest and does things the way they should, but if they don’t you can change that.  Secondly, I’d like if you have a serious question and want a real answer, then ask me.  I’ll tell you like it is.  Plain and simple!  Layaway is going bye bye, why?  It wasn’t profitable, period!  Uniforms will be integrated into the stores, why?  Look at our competition, some people say that Wal-Mart doesn’t appeal to the middle to high class customer, some people believe that the stores look to basic and not elegant enough.  Well, this is one way to try and change the stigma.  It has been tested at several divisions and worked, so here we go.  Now the benefits, yes they aren’t good enough.  We offer several plans, actually tons, but they aren’t made for the common cold at all.  Case in point is the co-pay.  If it were added to our plans that offer the 350 -1000 deductible before having to pay the detuctible, then our health plans would be perfect for just about anyone of any salary, in particular the lowest paid associates in the company.  Why doesn’t Wal-Mart change it?  I don’t have an exact answer, however my speculation is any plan that Wal-Mart can get to offer that is way more costly to the company.  I know what your thinking, number 1 retailer, billion & billions of dollars in sales.  That’s called gross profit numbers, not net and if you thought Wal-Mart was making so much money, then look at the stock.  It hasn’t split in over 7 years.  Thats the longest run Wal-Mart has ever gone without a spit.  Because Wal-Mart spends so much on expansion and their new sustainability program, they haven’t the allotted funds to produce a better health package, because if they did, they would drop quarterly earnings so bad that investors would sell and they stock would plumit.  That’s it for now.  If you don’t like the truth, then you obviously don’t care about it either.  Gripe all you want about what you cannot change, but for the crying out loud at least get your facts right.  That’s how it is.

Bob, that is a false argument about the person from Vietnam.  I agree that it’s true that even SOME of the poorest people in America don’t know how good they have it compared to third world poverty (although, this exists in America as well).  However, it’s false to say that there is no poverty in America just because there is WORSE poverty somewhere else.  You can be poor, or you can be REALLY poor.  This would be like saying that no one is ever cold because someone somewhere else is even more cold.  That’s not a justification or excuse.  Also, if I was homeless and someone gave me $20.00, I’m sure that I could stretch it out as far as it could possibly be stretched, but this is not a desirable situation, or maybe it is, considering there’s some other homeless person with $.35 or nothing at all, right, Bob?

At our WM they have a big jar of Vasilene they pass it around to whom ever needs it. Wal Mart has it’s way of making associates bend over.  H L Scott makes $8,800.00 per hour and that is a liaving wage.  There is so much munucia from WM and those who choose not to do anything to make things better.  So if a person got merit raises or annual raises they are chainging the rules after the fact.  How can they break laws and have people defend the for it. There needs to be a federal comission investigate these charges.  Wake Up and face the music WM.

Generic,

Those poor people in America are poor because they haven’t taken personal responsibility for themselves. Either that or it’s because they are not being favored by god. Those poor people should get on their computers and go to this website, calculate how much constitutes a living wage for their town and then go out and get a job that makes that wage. I don’t understand why poor people don’t understand this.

Wal-Mart is a souless company with only one purpose in the end-to get its core customers money, funnel it to Bentonville to make the Waltons billions of dollars richer and take care of company executives. Regular associates are NOTHING but numbers on a time sheet to WalMart and every one of them is totally replaceable.  High turnover at Walmart is acceptable because WalMart is not going to spend money to make people more skilled in the organization and thus they can bring in more unskilled people at beginning wages and no benefits once older ones leave.  I know this well, I work there.

Michael,

If Walmart is so bad to work for and you hate them so much then why do you still work for them?  Why not leave to find another job?

-Richard K

I have been an employee of Wal-mart Inc. on and off for almost 12 years.  I respect and enjoy learning both sides of the issues of the company.
What annoys me most from Wal-mart and even this site is the diefication of Sam Walton as a great man of unlimited virtue, a champion of the poor, and a good old boy who drove a pickup truck rather than a corporate jet.
GIVE ME A BREAK!  He was a good man by all accounts, a fine businessman who realized the underserved market of middle and rural America, and became the richest man in
America by selling things to them for a PROFIT, and because of his talents, charisma and vision.  He did it to make money for himself and the stockholders.  The American Way!  It was not some idealistic vision to save the poor.  I doubt that employees make any less now than when he was alive. 
Layaway is not some idealistic thing to help the poor, invented by Sam Walton.  It’s was tool to help people buy things from a business so it can make money.  He didn’t invent it.  It is not used much anymore and no one will lose a job because of it’s elimination.  I doubt that there is any store that has people dedicated to just the layaway area.
Yes, Sam Walton owned a pickup truck… to use when he went quail hunting.  He also had a Mercedes.  He traveled to stores in his own private plane which he also used to scout out new locations.  Lee Scott travels on the same corporate jets as every other person in visiting outside of Arkansas.  It’s an efficient form of transportation, not a luxery perk.

Go on ahead and criticize Wal-mart.  often they deserve it.  Just watch out what you are aiming at, or you will look stupid or just plain mean, and everything correct you have to say will be ignored.

Generic,

“ However, it’s false to say that there is no poverty in America just because there is WORSE poverty somewhere else.”

I never said that there is no poverty in America, I was just saying that it is unfair to compare the pay of a CEO, with that of a cashier.  I know that there is poverty in America, I used to be there, but worked my way out of it.  But, to do that, you actually have to DO something besides sitting around complaining about how your life sucks.  About 5 years ago, my sister-in-law was about to file bankruptsy, I told her to hold off and try a different way of handling her finances.  She listened to me and has changed the way she does things with her money, now she is almost debt free, has a new car and money invested for her future.  If your life isn’t going the way you would like it to go, YOU are probably doing something wrong and blaming it on someone else won’t change it.

“Also, if I was homeless and someone gave me $20.00, I’m sure that I could stretch it out as far as it could possibly be stretched, but this is not a desirable situation, or maybe it is,”

You have hit on the true problem, stretching that dollar!!  Isn’t it strange how a person can “GET BY” at $6.00 an hour an are still just “GETTING BY” when they get up to $10.00 an hour?  There is an old saying, ‘The more you make, the more you spend’, that is what poor people do, they get a raise and instead of saving and investing that raise, they spend it.  They try to get the things that they couldn’t afford before.  They move to that better apartment, etc.  In the end, they are no better off then they were before the raise.  That’s why they never will get ahead, it’s the way they think that is the problem.  Poor people with poor thinking, will always be poor, no matter how much you pay them.  Think about it, if a person is making $9.00 an hour and if you were to give that person a $2.00 an hour raise, and they worked 34 hours a week, that would only be $68.00 more per week, before taxes, do you really think that is going to get that person out of poverty?  I assure you that they will spend that money on things they WANT, instead of what they need, I’ve seen it happen over and over again with poor people, I have lived along side of them.  And, as I worked my way out of poverty, my friends told me I was stupid, because once you are poor, you will always be poor, there is no way out.  They still say that today, seeing that I did it, why?  Poor thinking is why!!!

Here’s a group that has an interesting idea on how to compute a “living wage”.

http://www.universallivingwage.org/

“The proposal, through a ten year plan, is to fix the Federal Minimum Wage by indexing it to the local cost of housing throughout the United States.

By using existing government guidelines:

1) work 40 hours in a week,

2) spend no more than 30% of one’s income on housing, and

3) using the HUD section 8 rental calculations, we ensure that anyone working 40 hours in a week will be able to afford basic rental housing, food, clothing, utilities, and access to health care. “

Of course, this wouldn’t affect Wal-Mart because if it were enacted no one at Wal-Mart would work 40 hours.

Been there wrote: “ 538,000 people have lost their jobs in the first 8 months of this year. How many employees has Wal-Mart laid off?  What is the price of job security?”

Wal-Mart’s turn over rate resides in the 40% range and since they employ 1.6 (+ or -) million people, that 538K figure can be handled by Bentonville alone. 

As for leaving Wal-Mart, that certainly seems to be a trend.

Of course you can work your way out of poverty.  I never said that you couldn’t, Bob.  However, you are the exception, not the rule, and it isn’t just because poor people make stupid money decisions.  In fact, a lot of poor people are able to do almost miraculous things with low amounts because they are used to it and they have to.  A person that is used to living on more might say “Wow, I can’t believe that you’re able to do that.” However, like I said, this doesn’t justify that situation.  You are basically saying “It doesn’t matter if people make more, because they’ll just spend it foolishly”.  This is rationalization and being an apologist.  You shouldn’t have to pull yourself out of that situation in the first place.  Even if every poor person suddenly did that and moved up to a “better” job - who would do their jobs, Bob?  Would there be enough of those “real” jobs to go around?  Nope.  A certain segment of the population has to do blue collar jobs and lower-level white collar jobs, face it.  Your revolving door society theory is just that, a theory, it only exists on paper.  It’s not just a matter of personal responsibility.

Evilwalmart, that being favored by God stuff doesn’t surprise me, it’s an old argument and fits into the Social Darwinist/Eugenics/Meritocracy school of thought.  Nothing new about that and there’s nothing new about religious institutions being used to justify the status quo (while ignoring the teachings they’re supposed to be promoting and defending).  Compare and contrast that idea from these “Christian” groups with what their scriptures actually teach - they’re polar opposites.

“I think it would be an excellent idea!” - Mahatma Gandhi (when being asked what he thought about western civilization)

Ken V,

“Wal-Mart’s turn over rate resides in the 40% range”

Turnover is different from ‘losing their jobs’.  Losing a job, is the company reducing employees, turnover is people leaving on their own.  The company cannot control people leaving, they can control (somewhat) how many people they let go.  If the turnover rate is 40%, that means that 60% remain working, therefore the Majority stay at their job.  What are the turnover rates at Target, K-mart, etc.?

I have to agree with Bob.  If conditions at Wal-Mart are so horrendous, find another job.  If they can’t find workers, they will raise the wages to attract more workers.  The capitalist system works both ways, but you have to be willing to be proactive.  The fact is, nobody in this country (who is here legally) and is willing to work has to starve.  The federal programs out there are numerous to help working families.  In my area of the country we have fuel assistance, day care assistance, food programs unrelated to welfare, child healthcare programs, school lunch programs...the list goes on and on.  I have no patience for people who expect a private company to do more than pay the wage and benefits agreed to upon hiring (which includes an agreement about raises).  The market sets the wages, that’s the way the system works.  In my area of the country, wages are high, so Wal-Mart has to match the going rate to staff the store, in times when the market has not supported higher wages, the wages were lower.  It’s not rocket science, and its not some diabolical plot.  It’s a company trying to make a profit, just like any other company out there, and it was no different when Sam Walton was around...he just was better at projecting the good-ol’ boy image than the current CEO.

Sam Walton was not the inventor of Lay-a-way, H L Scott is not the good ol boy but his company is trying to become a bank.  They want to have their cake and eat it too.  The WM message is we want the money and we want it now they want to become a bank so they don’t have to wait.  K-Mart is not getting rid of lay-a-way program.  This year the day after Thanksgiving those who want to put items in lay-a-way can go to K-Mart.  K-Mart / Sears can re caputre sales that Wal Mart turns down.  One worker at Wal Mart said they sould stay there just to drive them crazy.

Generic, there is no need to pull my foot out of my mouth.  Of course you felt the need to make the issue a personal issue, when it clearly was not meant to be.  I was in no way talking about how $80/week would make a difference or not to me.I was simply pointing out to the “living wage Gods” that there figure of $10.00 per hour as a “living wage” is absurd.  Think about it, Generic.  If every WM associate had an extra $80 per week in their pocket, would the “poverty situation” really alleviate itself?  Absolutely not!!  In a different light, I was pointing out that raising a rate like that would not provide the difference between a “living wage” and a “poverty wage.”

You “living wage” freaks all want to solve the issue, but you have none of the answers.  As an example, what, exactly, is a “living wage?”

Well Michael, does Walmart provide a wage YOU can live on?
Are you one of a handful of people who are ‘making something of themselves’?
Don’t you have any care or concern for your staff, don’t you see that they are people who need to live? Or are you too busy listening to the voice mails and the meetings that show only concern for your average hourly rate on the stores books? Do you just look at the memos about the companies concerns and turn a deaf ear to the issues of the people who come into your store everyday?
Do you care or could you care less?

Michael, is Lee Scott a ‘LIVING WAGE FEAK’???
How much living can one do with 19 million in only one year?
Who knows how much has come from all the other years?

It’s a pretty easy concept. If you don’t like your job or feel you’re not getting treated fairly...FIND ANOTHER JOB. If you don’t like Wal-Mart’s managment, prices or policies...DON’T SHOP THERE. In the meantime I’ll continue to wear $14 jeans (size 48) and $5 t-shirts (size 4X), try finding those sizes at those prices anywhere else. You won’t. YOU HAVE A CHOICE, use it and stop trying to tell everyone else what to do!

I have read every comment on this page, and most of them personally offend me. I have worked at wal-mart for nine months… in that time, I have incraesed my pay rate from $8.90 to $9.85 and am now a department manager. Why? because I bust my tail from the second I arrive to the second I leave. The job of everyday associates is to make sure the customer is completely taken care of in every way, Scott Lee’s job is to make sure that the business makes money and runs efficiently. I think both are necessary and difficult jobs, but for the most part they are not comparable. Scott Lee is a very smart man, dumb guys do not make it to 19mil a year. I have absolutely no doubt that his job is exceptionally difficult. If you work hard and learn how to do the job of your boss, then you will move up, but as you move you need to be sure and teach your job to those underneath you. This is how it should, and for the most part does, work. Those unwilling to learn how to do more complicated positions do not deserve to move up. Managers typically spend their time talking to and improving only associates who show intrest in improvement and advancement. There is a spot for everyone who is willing to work and to learn at walmart. I was told that within about 6 more months I will be able to go into an assistant manager position. That is a $40,000+ a year position. That is great pay. Anyone can become a walmart assitant manager… there is no college degree required. Nobody seems to realize the earning potential a career in walmart can provide. You just have to be willing to put the customer first and work hard. The higher you go, the more the positions are directed at running efficiently and saving money, but that is the nature of any business, not just walmart. I am curious as to why nobody is complaining about albertsons, or kroger and tom thumb. Their hourly wages fall far below walmart. My roomate worked at albertsons for three years, after three months at walmart I was already making more than him. I think that the real problem here is that people do not care and have no pride in what they do. People expect to instantly make $13 an hour… or immediately jump to $40,000 a year. These types of wages are not just handed out, I think that people feel that they somehow inherently deserve high wages… why? I dont know, because walmart makes alot of money??? Another thing, walmart will match the price of any other store… all you have to do is bring the add to the store. So… it is pretty difficult to imply that walmart has high prices. Not to mention the fact that when we check competitor prices, our prices have to be 5% lower on all featured items. The goal of walmart has never really changed… bring customers low prices while turning a profit. I fully understand that no company is perfect, and maybe since walmart is the top dog that makes it the top target, but I have found walmart to be a great place to work and a great place to shop. Like I said though, you have to be willing to work hard and wait for your turn to move up. Teach others things they may not know how to do, and demand your superior to teach you the aspects of their job. Well, that is my take. I have no personal attacks or anything like that. I just wanted to share my experience with walmart and my opinions on it. Thanks for your time.

A better measurement of pay is the median wage. Since the pay data is probably not ‘normal’ (statistics term), it is better to use the median which simply is the pay rate that divides the range into two equal numbers across the population of employees. Average means nothing if the data is not normal (look it up before you respond).

The easy question is: Define a living wage? $10 per hour? $20 per hour? What kind of living are you talking about? If Wal-Mart is so bad, why is it when they open a store thousands show up to try and get a job. According to the critics that says, “Wal-Mart exploits employees!” that should mean no one wants to work there anyway. How can this be?

Simply I cannot imagine how much of a loser someone will have to feel if they get rejected by Wal-Mart. What could make it worse is, if Wal-Mart was artificially forced to increase their wages to $10 per hour + another $3 to cover health care, thousands more would apply and that would mean thousands more would be rejected.... That would mean more losers would be rejected from working the simple jobs their entry-level jobs have. Unionizing it would increase the number of people who apply....meaning more losers.

Ford, GM, and Northwest went this route. Now the city is paying the piper. Its too bad this bastion of liberalism is failing.

Ok everyone. Those who are debating what a ‘living wage’ is, how about also deciding what a ‘living’ ‘standard of living’ is?
How much should a child cost every week?
How much should housing cost every week?
How much should having a car cost a week?
How much should a family spend on vacation each year?

First we should look at Lee’s answers.
We should see if he has any extra money after paying the needs of living.  That’s the difference folks. We are talking the needs of living. Not all the extras that the big wigs THINK they need.

Michael D in Connecticut - “PREDATORY PRICING” - What more do you need to know????????????????????????

Evil Conservative in Dearborn, guess who’s going to win?  It’s not going to be DeVoss.  Too bad, because we really needed someone that would allow big business to do whatever the hell they want and destroy Lake Huron.

Anyway, Retail is basically the new manufacturing, and since we really don’t have those jobs anymore, Retail is going to have to fill that void.  We are losing jobs and the ones that we have aren’t cutting it and meanwhile the cost of living keeps going up exponentially.  Is that good for the economy, people not actually having any purchasing power because they’re just trying to survive?  I know, we’ll give tax cuts to the wealthy and cut social programs to decimate the poor and middle class and we’ll fix it with trickle down economics, right?  In fact, let’s stop paying Wal-Mart employees or anyone in retail, or anyone doing blue collar or lower-level white collar jobs altogether, because they deserve it.  They should have taken personal responsibility and been highly paid executives.

Evil Conservative - Almost living wage= $10-12 Living wage= $12-15 Great living wage= $16+. There you have it. Of course this will vary according to geographical regions. It’s not like these people are asking for the moon, stars, and the sun here! Why do thousands of people show up and try to get jobs at Wal-Mart you ask? The answer is all around you, me, and everyone else; the job options have dwindled considerably if you haven’t noticed. All thanks to large corporations such as Wal-Mart that are main contributers to outsourced jobs, and of course this was only made possible via our beloved Bush administration through a highly flawed free trade agreement. And just because an individual does not acquire a certain job, does not make them a loser! A personal friend of mine tried to apply at Wal-Mart through one of their in-store computers. A part of the application process, required him to answer a series of questions. More than one question was geared toward union ideals. My friend answered all of the questions honestly, and low and behold, he was never hired. My friend is hard working, honest, and reliable. I guess the only “loser” here is Wal-Mart!

It would be interesting if someone tracked Lee Scott’s personal flights on corporate jets.  The aviation department spends much of their time transporting Lee Scott, Lawrence Jackson (Exec VP Personnel), Tom Schoewe (CFO) to their private homes in other states.  Lee in fact flies to his home in Florida frequently.  A living wage?  Lee’s biggest complaint is that not all the corporate jets have a bathroom!

Evil had a point. Does anyone have evidence of the net outsourcing of jobs? Last time I checked we insource more jobs than we outsource. Toyota is on top of Dearborn. Sadly, but employees that work at Toyota are happier than the content union employees at Ford and GM. But you have no evidence.

How does tax cuts to the people who actually do the hiring make you poorer. Somehow you are associating with forcing rich people to pay more in taxes makes you wealthier...but it only make you FEEL better because somehow you feel the rich are getting it stuck to them.

Listen to me. Try. Rich people make others rich. Please, so I don’t crawl on my knees to Wal-Mart looking for a stocking job, stop trying to force rich people to pay more in taxes. I NEED their money. I need their payroll so I can survive. Rich people can pay me FASTER without filling out a bunch of forms and spending time in their DHS offices while lying to them about all the jobs I applied for.

The more rich people there are, the more I make. Stop trying to make me poor by wanting the big businesses to give up more money than I can earn.

and for Unions? Since when is it OK for union heads to make $200K+? What do they know?

J in The South,

Do you think the Wal-Mart ‘cheer’ is silly?  I know that football teams and the military do it and don’t think it’s silly.  Do you sit around the lunchroom complaining about this or that?  Do you take off more than 7 days a year?  Do you think that the smocks make people look like little kids?  Do you think that you should have a fixed schedule, forever?  Do you swear at customers?  Do you think that you could do Lee Scott’s job better than he can?  Do you think that Wal-Mart is run terribly?

These are just some of the complaints that the anti Wal-Marter’s have, to justify why Wal-Mart is bad and they are a great employee who isn’t appreciated.  Anyone who is complaining about about the above, isn’t giving 100% and doesn’t deserve to get the pay that a 100% person should get.  Keep that good attitude and you will go far in the company, who knows, you might even take over Lee Scott’s job someday, remember, he started out as a worker at Wal-Mart.

Alex,

“How much should a child cost every week?
How much should housing cost every week?
How much should having a car cost a week?
How much should a family spend on vacation each year?”

This makes the case of why a living wage cannot be defined, these costs are different for everyone.

“how about also deciding what a ‘living’ ‘standard of living’ is?”

This also is determined by each individual and what they decide to spend, I’ll bet you spend more each year on a vacation than I do.  So, a ‘living’ ‘standard of living’ is just as elusive as a ‘living wage’ is!!  Depends on how much the individual wants to spend on things.

Hey, Richard K., STUPID, not all of us are in our 20’s or 30’s

Kats,

1) Stupid??????
2) I’m not in my 20’s or 30’s so I miss your point.

-Richard K

Wow, what a diverse group of opinions! There are some good points, and not so good points, in all that I’ve read. As a current employee, I am watching and trying to gain as much information as possible to make that all important decision of to stay or go...it’s not as simple as it seems to give up one job for another. I joined the “Walmart Family” not quite three years ago, at a starting wage of $5.44 per hour, due to hard work, promotion and ability I am up to a whopping $7.45 an hour! I unfortunately live in a rural area where jobs are scarce, pay is low, and benefits are nonexistant...so looking is easy, but finding something that will give me all that I need to support myself, my son, and allow me to retire on more than Social Security is not something I take lightly. It is hard to go to work each day and wonder what’s next. It is hard to accept the fact that no matter what you do, there are few that actually appreciate your efforts. The new cap policy on wages is to enable us to move up within the company, to consider our goals and go for them, but unfortunately, that is only a theory because only certain people will move up for reasons that have nothing to do with ability, but “kissability”. In other words, it depends on how much “kissing up” to upper management you are willing to do. I receive high evaluations, I receive the maximum pay raises...but I’m unsure if I will on my next eval. Not because I do any less, or have not learned more, but because, others that normally receive high evals, did not this time...and there was no reason for it. Another associates eval stated one of her high points was “good hygeine”...what’s that got to do with her job performance? I don’t know where all these changes are going, and I’m not sure if I’ll stay with this company. But the thought of losing my vacation, 401k, stock, insurance and personal, and sick time....well, if I go, the next job will have to be something. Wal Mart isn’t any different than any other corporation, it is about money, always has been. I moan and groan the same as everyone else...watch the paper for other opportunities, and then get ready to go to work...tomorrow could be my last day. But until I know for certain there is not future with Wal Mart, I’ll stay.

Lost in OK,

I congratulate you for having the right attitude toward your life and your employer.  You said something that is ENTIRELY true… Walmart is like any other company.  Their motive is profit and sometimes the work conditions and pay are less than desirable.  As for the promotion and moving up through “kissability” is absolutely more the norm in this country than the exception.  That’s why social skills are just as important in your job as your daily activities.  Sometimes it sucks… but that’s how life works in work and in personal life with friends.

Bottom line is you “get it”.  You know what you have, you have accurately surveyed the landscape and will base your decisions on the opportunites presented to you and that includes either staying at Walmart or moving on.  It is what ALL Walmart associates as well as ANY employee should be doing with their job and life. 

Best of luck to you, you have your head on straight!

-Richard K

Evil Conservative, I’m ridiculing the idea of tax cuts for the wealthy and trickle down economics.  I’m not trying to stick it to the rich, I’m saying that the poor need more, but of course, being an evil conservative (whatever that is, it doesn’t even exist anymore) you will disagree and subscribe to the sham idea of “Everyone benefits if the rich make more.”

Bob, the point is not that people spend differently or have different standards of living or preferences.  That’s entirely not the point.  Here, I’ll try to explain “Everyone gets at least two pieces of pizza first, and then if you want more you can have more, but make sure that everyone gets at least two.” That’s the concept, not “Well, what if Joe wants one and a half pieces instead of two and Jane wants more than two.  I know that Jack would like 16 pieces, so who decides what the minimum is?”.  Also, Bob, I do what I’m supposed to at work, AND find the Wal-Mart cheer degrading and feel that it should be voluntary (I don’t care what football teams or people in the military do, it’s not relevant).  I also know that hard work at that company is totally irrelevant unless you mean working hard at kissing butt.

Generic,

See, that is where we differ, I think it does matter if people have different spending habits, different standards of living and preferences, especially when someone else is paying for it.  People here, including yourself, talk about being paid based on NEED, well, those different spending habits, etc. determine NEED.  In your pizza example, you say that each person should at least get two pieces, but, wouldn’t that depend on how many pieces there are compared to how many people there are?  If there were 8 pieces and 5 people, should the people who paid for the pizza get one slice and Pete who didn’t chip in for it, get 3 slices, because he eats faster?  If I spend more than you do, should that mean that I should get paid more than you do?

As for that “cheer” thing, why do you think football teams and the military use it?  They use it to inspire ‘teamwork’, people joining together with the ‘spirit’ of having success.  To think it’s silly is a negative attitude, and a negative attitude is a receipe for failure.  Once you get a negative attitude, your attitude will continue to deteriate and soon, you find fault with almost everything around you, like “fake plants in the restrooms, stupid smocks, etc.”, and when you get to that point, you are no longer giving 100%, people notice it, especially managers and guess what, you don’t get that raise you thought you should, so, there is another thing to be even more negative about.  As for “Kissing Butt”, I have noticed, that negative people consider doing what you are told to do and are getting paid to do, as ‘kissing butt’, resisting and complaining, is considered “Not Kissing Butt”.

My biggest concern is the new availability.When I was first hired I was told that they would work around availabilty. I am a single mom who depends on 2 incomes but with the new scheduling I can no longer get the hours I was promised because I can not work during the day because Ihave another job. My other job is my bread and butter. I now only get 12-15 hours a week which is always on weekends which means I will probably have to quit qnd find another part time job just to stay off govt. asstitance

Hello, home office,
I have worked in the back offices for 20 years and still do not make $40,000 a year. I was capped out and the pissey $400. dollar buyout was added to my payroll check. Go figure. Taxed the Begivers out of it. WHOA did I win here?
You guys are all for the people. Lee, you should be ashamed. 19 million a year......HOWEVER are you going to live on that?????????

Bob, you are grasping at straws with the pizza argument.  That was just to illustrate the concept since it appears to be so utterly confusing and stupefying to so many people.  How YOU choose to spend your money is your responsibility, but you should at least have an adequate amount in the first place.  Housing costs a certain amount, food costs a certain amount, etc, etc, etc, and wages should allow people to procure these things and LIVE (not just survive, either).  People at “the bottom” need to be able to live, too, and their dollars contribute to the economy as well.  You know what, Bob, you CAN live in a tent on the side of the freeway or in a van down by the river, but you shouldn’t have to do this in the first place.  This is not rocket science. Also, since you want to explore the pizza analogy way more than it was ever meant to be explored, I’ll say that the people that put in more can eat more, but everyone gets at least two pieces.

Also, once again, you cannot force people to feel that way.  It has the opposite effect on me, it pisses me off and makes me resentful, it should be voluntary.  The military does it because militarism thrives on mind-control, but I’m not in the military or a football game, I’m at work.  If they want us to be happy and productive then they should treat us as adult human beings, not worker drone children participating in a cult activity.  Whoever WANTS to do that can go off in the corner and do it until they pass out.  Also, I am not just finding fault with things around me, it IS stupid to waste money on trees that no one cares about when there are inadequate tools to do your job with.  Which should take a higher priority?  Also, guess what, I do what I’m paid to do, do a good job, do whatever I’m told to do within reason and have barely ever complained unless the complaints were legitimate.  I mean outright butt-kissing, not doing what you’re supposed to do.

Bob-

I agree with Generic about the cheer.  It is silly and I never once participated in it.  Some people seemed to like it, and I think that’s great if it boosts their morale, but not everyone likes to act like that.  That said, it was voluntary in both of my stores.

Well to go back to the basic premise of all this--and I agree with Generic in any case--you have so many hundreds of thousands of people scraping by with low wages and benefits and a few at the top making obscene amounts of money and as the story points out completely out of touch with the living conditions of so many of their employees. You know we have this argument about the minimum wage and it’s fine to set standards for those on the bottom who are left to figure out a way to live on the standard that has set which hasn’t changed in quite a while. On the other hand there is no standard set for the rich person--he or she can make whatever--the sky is the limit. Why is that? Well one reason to me anyway is that this society that we live in is not interested of the whole. It is interested in the best interest of the few. This is capitalism of course at its finest--and it’s not necessarily an attack on capitalism here--but a comment on an economic system that is not pragmatic but dogmatic--to wit your pure capitalist is not interested in anything that doesn’t fall within the realm of his particular economic philosophy.  A thing such as Social Security to a pure capitalist for instance is socialism plain and simple and should be desposed of just because of that. His or her idea on minimum wage would be there’d be no such thing. No standard at all and whether working people would survive or not on the pay they got from whatever they did again is of no interest. Your capitalist purist in other words is not interested in either a just or a better society. He or she is only interested in Number 1. The fact is in order for us to build the better society it is in the interest of the people as a whole to have a pragmatic economic system which might borrow here from capitalism and there from socialism or from other economic ideas.

The specific dollar amount that someone gets paid obviously will vary based on the demands of the job, the skills someone bring to the job and the number of applicants. Brain surgeon? High salary. Bag boy in a supermarket? Not so much.

I think the real battle should be over benefits. A sick kid can send a family’s finances into a tailspin. WalMart and the other companies SHOULD provide adequate health care coverage for their workers, both full-time and part-time. Anything less is exploitative, taking advantage of a large pool of unskilled workers. “Adequate” health care coverage is something that can be defined more easily and accurately than a “living wage.”

Taking away the stress of worrying about health issues makes workers more productive and more loyal.

Some people think it’s not up to an employer to provide “perks” (for lack of a better word) to employees.

But if the corporate leaders are so smart, they should spread a little of that wisdom to their workers. The corporate heads had their share of breaks in life. Sure, they worked hard and maybe some were first generation successes, but I bet more than a few came from clubby atmospheres.

My point is, not everyone has figured out how to manage their money, invest in a 401K, etc.

What big corporations have the capacity to do is move large numbers of people into a better place in life. Part of that is through the salaries they pay. Part of that is through training people to have good work habits and better financial habits. And part of that is through benefits they provide. Workers can probably go out and buy their coverage individually, but WalMart, of all companies, understands the concept of “buying power.”

It’s a truism that poor people tend to spend their money unwisely. The whole junk food business thrives on that premise. 50 cents for a half-ounce bag of potato chips is $16 a pound. You could buy a very nice steak for that amount of money. And it extends to big-ticket items...often the shiniest thing in a poor household is the gigantic television set.

Ultimately, what people do with their money is their own business.

But let’s get real. What we are talking about is low-skilled, low-wage workers. People have all kinds of spending habits and savings habits. All kinds of living situations from single, no kids to a family of twelve crammed into apartments with no electricity.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2006/sep2006/fire-s05.shtml
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14653585/
http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-funeral14.html

Wherever they are in the range of salaries being talked about $8, $10, $12 and hour, they’d be wiped out by one serious medical event.

Let’s get health care secured for workers. The salary of a CEO is set by a company’s board of directors and by Wall Street. Sure, it may be way out of line with what seems reasonable to some people, but that’s the system we have. I say, give every worker the same health care coverage that the CEO gets. That’s not based on their ability to manage or create massive wealth for the company...it’s not based on their position in the corporate structure. It’s based on their worth as human beings.

I don’t imagine anyone can object to that.

Alex, as usual, you bring no point to the table. 

I do fine with Wal-Mart, and I am sure that I care more for my associates than most union boys do. 

I also do not care what Lee Scott makes.  Sure, I would like to make that money, but I don’t.

Also, I am sure that if you were fortunate enough to make that money, you would give it all away to the less fortunate and live on $10 per hour, right???

Generic,

“Housing costs a certain amount, food costs a certain amount, etc, etc, etc, and wages should allow people to procure these things and LIVE (not just survive, either).”

Are you saying that All housing costs the same amount, and All food costs the same amount, etc., etc., etc.?  If ALL of these things were EXACTLY the same for ALL people, you could set wages that All people could live off of.  But, if I live in an apartment that costs me $600.00 a month and pay my utilities and you live an apartment that costs $600.00 a month utilities included, wouldn’t pay based on your situation be called enough to live on and that would not be enough for me to do so?  And, if you grow a garden and get a lot of your veggies from it and I buy organics only, wouldn’t you be able to live cheaper than me and wouldn’t your lifestyle be enough to base a wage on?  I can go through a whole list of things that could cut the cost of living for anyone, but getting them to do them is another thing.  So, what YOU may think is what is needed to LIVE on, may not be the least expensive way to do it.  It all comes down to personal choice, how can a company be held accountable to pay based on your choice of how you prefer to live?

Southside,

“My point is, not everyone has figured out how to manage their money, invest in a 401K, etc.”

This has always been a thorn in my side, if money is your PRIME source of paying for your ability to LIVE, why is it that people don’t learn the things you mentioned?  I have seen many people who can spout all kinds of useless trivia that they have learned, but, know absolutely nothing about handling money responsibly, and then complain that they are broke all the time.

“It’s a truism that poor people tend to spend their money unwisely.”

And, how is it the responsibility of a company to offset that UNWISE spending?  If a company offers 4 different insurance polices and they cost 4 different amounts based on their coverage (poor to best), who’s fault is it if I spend my money unwisely and therefore don’t have enough left, to get anything other than the poor policy?  How is that my employers responsibility, to pay the difference for me?

“This has always been a thorn in my side, if money is your PRIME source of paying for your ability to LIVE, why is it that people don’t learn the things you mentioned?”

Dearest Bob,

It’s because life is messy and people are fallible.

Also, the answer is in your question. A lot of this is learned behavior. I think you can admit that money management can be intimidating to a lot of people. Not the concept of delayed gratification, that’s a simple choice people have to make, but the details of buying and holding or buying and selling stocks. What is it that rookie investors do? They buy a stock or fund and when it dips, they panic and sell at a loss.

I picked up a couple of good money-management books along the way and learned to eliminate a lot of the little expenses that were draining my cash. Droppd the second phone line, no impulse buying at the record store, switched from lattes to drip coffee (seriously), zeroed out the credit card debt. I learned (and decided) what I could live without.

Separating out the issues of wages, spending and savings, whatever amount people are payed, they can always learn to be more responsible with their money. It’s not just poor people who spend unwisely. Look at the numbers of middle-income people who rack up massive amounts of credit card debt on nonsense, paying nearly 30% interest rates.

And not all poor people are wasteful with their money.

The history of Chicago is of working-class people who saved and bought three-family homes, covered their mortgages, sent their kids to college. That’s still going on.

“It’s a truism that poor people tend to spend their money unwisely.”

“And, how is it the responsibility of a company to offset that UNWISE spending?”

It’s not. But it IS the responsibility of the company to provide health coverage for the employees that enable the company to make its billions of dollars in profits.

A person could have $100,000 in the bank and see it wiped out after an illness.

I have no interest in debating a “living wage.” It’s too loose a concept to even discuss. I do have an interest in companies taking care of their employees. WalMart and other companies should provide adequate health coverage to its employees. In this century, in this country, anything less is exploitative.

ser·en·dip·i·ty (srn-dp-t)
n. pl. ser·en·dip·i·ties
1. The faculty of making fortunate discoveries by accident.

Serendipity
“Fortune’s Fools: Why the Rich Go Broke”
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/17/business/yourmoney/17broke.html?ei=5094&en=756627983b0657fa&hp;=&ex=1158465600&partner=homepage&pagewanted=all

I’m currently a 13 year associate with Wal-Mart. When I first started with this I took pride in my work and enjoyed my job, but with the changes these last few years I have seen a change in morale throughout my entire district. The one big change is the wage cap. For each pay level there is a max pay. Most of us who have been here for 12 or more years were effected by the cap. This means that reguardless of how much longer we are with the company, we will not receive another raise unless we go into management, which incidentally is as easy to get into as they promote. They put a freeze on the assistant program over a year ago. With all the current changes in insurance and job status what is the real incentive for working with this company?

WELL I’VE BEEN WITH THE COMPANY 22 YEARS .  WHEN
I WAS HIRED AND EVEN UP UNTIL RECENTLY I WAS TOLD
THAT THIS WAS A GREAT COMPANY TO HAVE A CAREER.
WHETHER YOUR WERE AN HOURLY OR A SALARIED ASSOCIATE THAT WAS YOUR CHOICE DEPENDING ON
YOUR SITUATION AT HOME.  THIS WAS MY CAREER I
HAVE GIVEN WAL -MART 100 PERCENT SINCE DAY ONE.
NOW I FEEL THAT I HAVE BEEN BETRAYED.  NO I HAVE NOTHING TO LOOK FORWARD TO.  I HAVE BEEN WITH
THIS COMPANY SINCE I WAS 18.  I MADE THE DECESION
TO MAKE THIS MY CAREER AND WAS HAPPY.  NOW I CAN’T
BE SICK I HAVE NEVER CALLED IN BUT YOU NEVER KNOW
WHAT CAN HAPPEN.  I’M SO DEDICATED TO MY JOB I
GO TO WORK SICK AND LEAVE EARLY IF I HAVE TO
KNOW IF I DO THAT IT’S ALSO UNAPPROVED.  I JUST
DON’T UNDERSTANT THE DIRECTION THE COMPANY IS
TAKING.  WHOSE GOING TO WATCH MANAGEMENT OUR
STORE MANAGER HAS BEEN OUT HALF THE YEAR.  YES
MAYBE LEE SCOTT STARTED AS AN HOURLY MANY YEARS
AGO.  NOW I’D LIKE FOR HIM TO COME WORK AS AN
HOURLY AND GET TREATED THE WAY WE DO. TRY TO LIVE
OFF OUR WAGES.  RETIRING REAL SOON. SADLY DISSAPOINTED..  MYRA

Okay....I just transfered from a store that is argueably the worst store in the tri-state area. After reading all of these posts, I HAVE to comment.  First of all, I was a full time layaway associate when I left, level 4, same as service desk. Look at the job codes...’k....the open door policy does NOT work, because even though there is a no retaliation policy at Wal Mart, it is not enforced. Our personell manager was repremanded for retaliation, quit, but was hired back after a new store manager arrvied....at full pay. I spent 4 years in that store, because I needed a job, and knew that I could transfer to a different store....not all Wal Marts are bad, but I can assure you that some are HORRIBLE!!  My former store manager makes an art of drinking coffee and hiding in the LP (or asset protection) office. He would NEVER address a problem with you, you were told to go to your assistant, co, etc. At inventory time, he told all dept managers that even though because of the implementation of the My $hare program, we were only getting $200, but he still wanted HIS bonus, so make sure receiving was immaculate. THAT is a Wal Mart company man for ya’. I’ve read posts mentioning the 5% markdown on featured, or tab merchandise, but he failed to mention that the initial markup could be in excess of 150%. I have no desire to wear a uniform....especially since the company will provide you with two shirts and that is all. TLE techs get more uniforms than that! Wal Mart is NOT Target, they will never BE Target....and if they alienate their main demographic by discontinuing services such as layaway, then K Mart may be a very real alternative to the masses. One more statement and then I will have said my piece....if Wal Mart CEO’s are such honest and trustworthy men, then why did Lee Scott’s predecessor, Tom Chonchlyn, get indicted for theft and embezzlement? I know I was personally happy to pay for his alligator boots and custom dog pen...and I am sure that all the WONDERFUL customers liked it too.

Since there have been so many posts (good and bad) on this thread, I hesitated to post.  Naturally both sides are wound up.

1) WM is not the company it once was and is surely going to go downhill.  There are disingenous.  e.g. roll backs—it could have been days, weeks or years ago and it is still called roll-back. 

2)Sell quality goods—no most or not—now WM is going to go to a higher “class” --that is why they got rid of layaway.
It catered to the poorer people which built WM.

3)The majority of employees are unhappy and moreso now with the changes.  Rural stores pay a lot less than urban stores.  Many ass’t managers are unhappy with changes but are afraid to say anything.

4) WM talks about inv control but the stores always get more than they need and countless hours are spent trying to find a spot.  The constant moving of merchandise around, does not increase sales, but aggravates customers and employees.

5) Organic foods and discounts to employees for “veggies” and hopefully WM can “get rid of” the long time (older) employees (read Susan Chambers memo)

6) Read WalMart World for propaganda.  Who heard of “Juneteenth”?? I’ll bet you haven’t but WM is promoting it and hoping to make it greater next year.  It is about the ending of “slavery” and this is a “commeration”

7) Greater diversivication—the Gay Alliance, (ok to tick off Christians) the money WM ;gives to United Negro College Fund, The Latino Womens Assoc., the Islamic Studies Group,
and various other minority groups.  A lot of scholarships to the UNCF, but how many to our children?

8)Read above how a select few made decent money with WM but the majority do not.  There are not always jobs available in some rural areas.  However as I said before if a store has 300 employees, it will have the same number leave and hire the same number (not the same people)
Figures are bantered around as to salary of ass’t mgrs, and
that depends where you are.

9) The greedy people at the top could care less about those at the bottom—whne is the last time a fat cat came in a store w/o management and talked with an associates one on one?  This helped make Sam W. succesful.

10) Yes we have to be concerened of WM wanting to get into banking and this needs more study.

11) WM promotes some of the “dumbest” people into management—they don’t know how to run retail.

12) WM could save hundreds of thousands each year by eliminated the stupid signage they are constantly changing and no one reads.  I suggest to change signage to a quote of something realtive to our country’s history.

13) I stated before—the employees (associates) need an in house orginazation/union composed only of them and controlled only by WM workers.  I asked for a response on here and no one seem interested, so if the “associates” wish to be complacent, then they have no complaints.

What about the uniforms?? I have heard very little on this. Can anyone tell me where I can find out more??

I could write much more, but I would like to see WM have someone at the top who knew selling and had people skills.
Actually someone like me—I say that very openly and objectively for I have dealt successfully with people for years.  Radicalism will not solve anything (such as we read on here) but open, honest dialogue can.

A woman at a WM saved WM over $2,000 in catching people at the self check outs trying to sneak items out.  She gets the meets expectations raise of 40 cents, Yes WM is a chintzy, cheap company with its help.  Don’t tell me otherwise.  They cut the hours, they have people doing more jobs than ever, and still expect everything to be done.
Does this mean I hate WM?  No but I would like them to listen as many have so accurately posted above.
As a Christian I believe if those principles were incorporated WM could again become the best to work for and shop at.

What’s with the spelling and grammar of ex-WM workers?

“diversivication”
“WM could save hundreds of thousands each year by eliminated the stupid signage...”

Jeez-O-peet! These ain’t do be no typogramaphical errors.

“A lot of scholarships to the UNCF, but how many to our children?”

Hey, “Knowledgeable” (about everything except spelling and grammar), our robe and hood have been cleaned and pressed. You can pick them up in aisle five when you are ready.

knowledgeable asked: “What about the uniforms?? I have heard very little on this. Can anyone tell me where I can find out more??”

While the information posted on this 0forum could be classified as “scuttlebutt”, readers have been WAY ahead of the curve on the ‘flights’ and non-flight changes currently going on.

Knowledgble-
I am not certain if Wal Mart has made an OFFICIAL statement regarding the new uniforms, which are to be rolled out sometime next year. In order to make us look more “professional”, we will be wearing blue polo shirts and khaki pants. I don’t know if information can be found on the Wire or management toolbox, but I know it was discussed at the meetings in Houston. Our store manager announced it when she arrived home, and told us the company would provide two shirts. So that means that even the ICS team and unloaders will wear khakis. ‘Cause it’s not filthy crawling around in the steel, or anything!

I’VE HEARD THAT THERE IS STILL SEVERAL FLIGHTS LEFT
HAS ANYONE HEARED WHAT THEY ARE.
MYRA, KATY

South Side,

“But it IS the responsibility of the company to provide health coverage for the employees that enable the company to make its billions of dollars in profits.”

As health insurance coverage is a BENEFIT and is not mandated by law, how IS it the responsibility of the company to provide it?  Wages are mandated by law, but benefits aren’t.  Sure, it would be nice if it was provided, so would a lot of other things, but people are different and their needs are different and you can’t always get what you want.

Since when did personal responsibility become replaced by corporate charity?  Why aren’t people learning to handle money instead of learning the stupid things they learn instead?  In years past, people were held accountable for their lives, now it’s ‘Do what you want, no matter how stupid, and we will take care of you’, what’s that all about?

“A person could have $100,000 in the bank and see it wiped out after an illness.”

If a person is smart enough to get $100,000.00 in the bank (unless they inherited it, then they probably won’t have it for long), they should be smart enough to have insurance.  I recently saw on WGN news, that there was a flood in Indiana, when a person was interviewed, they said they had lost everything, when asked if they had renters insurance, they answered, “NO, I didn’t think I needed it.”, do people only buy insurance when they KNOW something bad is going to happen, or do you buy it because you DON"T KNOW when something bad will happen?  And, sorry, but if someone is that dumb, why should anybody feel sorry for them?

knowledgeable,

Over the years, I have seen and heard many people who have opinions on, “how better to run the COMPANY”, but, when you get into management, you see things in a whole different light.  Even this site shows this, they advocate change, right?  One of the changes advocated was going to a higher grade of products, BUY AMERICAN not Chinese, right?  But, when they try to upgrade some, you comment, “now WM is going to go to a higher “class” --that is why they got rid of layaway. It catered to the poorer people which built WM.”, so you see, they can’t win, no matter what they do, they will always have people critizing them.  Truth is, it is Wal-Mart’s size that bugs people not really what they do, you hear it over and over again on these posts.  By the way, layaway is a losing proposition for any company, quite often, they get stuck with merchandise that is never picked up and ends up outdated.  A computer is a good example of this.

Bob, we already went through the “people live and spend money differently” thing.  I’ll clarify, it’s based on average costs for things, and as everything keeps going up guess what else has to come up?  What you’re saying is the equivalent to saying “Well, how do we determine what a safe speed limit is?  There’s no way to determine that, that race car driver over there might be able to drive better at faster speeds than that person over there.  Some people like to drive fast, she can’t drive slow with a lot of coordination, he likes to drink coffee when he drives, he can only drive that kind of car.....etc, etc, etc” There has to be some kind of standard for things.  You are just using smoke screen arguments to hide behind because you are close to being a pure capitalist (I can’t imagine why) like Larry pointed out.  A pure capitalist or a pure Marxist will not listen to anything not in their dogmatic belief system.  Also, since we don’t have universal healthcare, how else are people supposed to get healthcare?  Answer - from their employers.

“......I am not a Marxist.” - Karl Marx

Wow what a great group.  I have worked for wamart for 17 years.  I love the job and I love the people however I would like to know where these associates are that are making ten dollara per hour to start.  Its not here in the South, I can tell you that.  Also I think health care ia a national problem but I know smaller companies than walmart that have better health insurance for their employees.  So I think walmart can do better for their employees.  I say employees because if we were true associates we would have a say in decisions that affect us but we dont.  All of a sudden we are going to two new clothing lines.  George and Metro 7.  I can go to Dillards and Macys if I want to pay the prices on these clothes.  Low income families cant afford this clothing lines prices.  NOw we have done away with lay a ways, poor families depended on this service for christmas.  Rumor has it we are going to a uniform, doesnt Target do that.  since we are suppose to be the leading retailer why would we want to copy Target.  OUr pay has been capped also.  Where has Mr Sams company gone to.  Believe me 10.00 per hour to start is not enough money for what we put up with.  We have stock, do paperwork, answer phone, take verbal and sometimes physical abuse from management and customers.  We have been locked in the store at night, women have been discriminated against in pay and promotions.  So Walmart and its CEO arent blameless for its image.

Bob,

Dude, you are heartless and more than a little strange. What kind of world have you lived in? The company can extract value from its workers but isn’t responsible for their well-being? Really? You are a walking advertisement for unions.

You seem to think that market forces and existing legislation create some sort of ideal world. The stupidity of that logic is easy to see. If everything is perfect, then we don’t need to create new laws. But of course we do. Markets change, families change technology changes...perception changes.

You want goverment to micro-manage every detail of life.
You’re a pure capitalist? How nice for you. Sane people expect other people to act morally.

Companies should provide benefits because
1. it’s the right (moral) thing to do
2. it boosts productivity
3. it boosts the image of the company in the community, thereby increasing sales and profits
4. this is the 21st century, not the 19th

“And, sorry, but if someone is that dumb, why should anybody feel sorry for them?”

I get it, you’re really upset that nobody else is as smart or responsible as you. Poor=Stupid. Stupid=Bad. Poor=Bad.

I mean, seriously, you should seek therapy for your anger and lack of compassion. Stop your obsessive blogging. Go take a walk. Get some fresh air. You are really, really boring and strange.

Kathy,

“All of a sudden we are going to two new clothing lines.  George and Metro 7.”

This was one of the ‘CHANGES” that people on this site wanted, going to higher quality merchandise, now they do it and people start to complain the other way.

“NOw we have done away with lay a ways, poor families depended on this service for christmas.”

They have an alternative for this, it’s called a BANK.  We used to call it a CHRISTMAS CLUB ACCOUNT.

“Rumor has it we are going to a uniform, doesnt Target do that.  since we are suppose to be the leading retailer why would we want to copy Target.”

People here have complained about the ‘smocks’, now you complain about uniforms, street clothes make you look like the customers, what’s left, all associates running around naked?

“OUr pay has been capped also.”

Almost every company in America ‘caps’ workers pay levels, this is nothing ‘new’.

South Side,

“What kind of world have you lived in?”

I lived in the world of PAST AMERICA, where people were held responsible for their actions.  An America before ‘Political Correctness’, in which you can see things that are wrong and not have to say that they are right, because you might hurt someones feelings.  An America where people were expected to take care of themselves and help was available, but only until you could work your way back up onto your feet.  An America where few people stood around with their ‘hands outstretched’ yelling “Gimmee”, and instead of making poor decisions and then wanting others to cover their mistakes, they fixed their lives themselves.

“The company can extract value from its workers but isn’t responsible for their well-being? Really?”

The company IS being bein responsible, by giving back ‘value for work done’, in the form of wages, health insurance, 401K, vacations, employee discounts, stock purchase plan, etc., what do you really think the value of the work these people do, is worth, $50,000.00 a year plus bennies?  They are unskilled retail workers, not rocket scientists!!

“You want goverment to micro-manage every detail of life.”

No, I want government to control things less, I want PEOPLE to micro-manage their own lives and when they make mistakes, I want them to learn from it, not have someone else sweep it under the carpet for them.

“Companies should provide benefits because”

Wal-Mart DOES provide benefits, if you don’t like what they provide, that is your problem, not theirs.

“I get it, you’re really upset that nobody else is as smart or responsible as you. Poor=Stupid. Stupid=Bad. Poor=Bad.”

I didn’t say that, you did.  What I said was that if people don’t buy insurance, when they have $100,000.00 in the bank, that’s not very SMART (dumb).

“I mean, seriously, you should seek therapy for your anger and lack of compassion. Stop your obsessive blogging. Go take a walk. Get some fresh air. You are really, really boring and strange.”

Yeah, that’s the solution, go to therapy, take a walk, get some fresh air.  How about if I just throw my money away and go on welfare, yeah that’s it, then I’ll no longer be boring and strange, I will be one of the irresponsible people, the chosen ones.  I then can ‘Party Hardy’ and ask my employer to foot the bill, oh, I forgot, I’m retired, so I have no employer to hit up on, I have to take care of myself.  “Hey, where’s my ‘hand out’? “Someone please send me some money, I don’t want to be boring and strange anymore”?

South Side,

By the way, why don’t you ask YOUR therapist, what an “ENABLER” is?

Now walking and fresh air are the enemy? Wow!

I talked to my therapist and she says you are a wacko. Trust me, you will never stop being strange. Dude, take the advice of your buddy (alter ego?) “Someone” and stop responding to my posts. You take every topic on this site and somehow manage to make it about you and your beliefs. You don’t really want to discuss anything, you just want to rant. Nothing outside your world view coulds possibly have merit, could it? That is what makes you boring. And an egomaniac.

Seriously, get another hobby besides blogging.

South Side,

Don’t worry, I won’t respond to you after this post.  I didn’t start ranting until you started calling me names, but, I guess that’s what people do when they can’t respond logically.

I guess if acting responsibily makes a person BORING, then you are right, I’M BORING.  And, if not pushing my responsibility off on others, is STRANGE, then I guess I"M STRANGE.  And I also guess that ALL of the people who lived PRIOR to the 1970’s were all strange and boring as well.  I also guess that this was mainly because most of them didn’t do drugs and sought the American Dream and the Dream now, is GETTING HIGH.

“Now walking and fresh air are the enemy? Wow!”

There’s nothing wrong with walking and getting fresh air, but it doesn’t pay the bills.  Maybe if your type of people would spend more time learning finances instead of going on ‘beer picnics’ in the fresh air, they wouldn’t have to depend on their employer to pay their way through life.

South Side,

One last thing, you may think I’m a wacko, egomaniac, but you are an IDIOT, DUDE.  MAYBE IF YOU GROW UP A LITTLE AND LAY OFF THE DOPE, YOU CAN BECOME A BORING, STRANGE, WACKO, EGOMANIAC yourself, but I doubt it.  Hey, isn’t that your dealer calling?  Better ask your employer for a raise, so you can afford to pay him!!!

This discussion is quite amusing. I suppose it’s nice to see that Wal-Mart has its supporters. I’ve worked there for a few years now after being laid off from a corporate job, and it’s disconcerting how quickly morale at my store has deteriorated.

We are being told on an almost weekly basis about various things that are useful to us, that are being taken away or removed. The wage caps (which aren’t a big deal because Wal-Mart doesn’t pay its associates enough for us to worry about ever actually reaching the cap), the removal of the layaway program, elimination of merit raises are the most recent disappointments.

For a company so large, whose corporate members make such an absurd amount of money, even its lower tier “floor workers” shouldn’t be struggling to get by this much. The money is there, but its given to people who need it less and, in some cases, deserve it less. Our store has been down in sales for the past two years, and the floor workers are the ones who take the fall in the form of no bonus check. And why didn’t we make the sales? Because two recent neighboring supercenters have taken some of our business. That’s a decision made on the corporate level, but it’s the lemmings on the floor who lose their bonus over it.

It’s nice to see the “exceeds” cap is up to sixty cents. Unfortunately, it’s not as cut and dry as supporters claim. At my store in particular, you are pressured into believing that the expectation is for you to exceed expectations. You are essentially expected to go above and beyond every day. When eval time rolls around, you are told you are not exceeding “enough” to justify the sixty cent raise. A guy I work with got “exceeds” on every item but one on his eval sheet, and was given a forty cent raise. He was told he’s not doing enough to exceed.

As has been mentioned, there are options. You can not sign off on the eval. You can take it to a higher authority. It’s not nearly as simple a process as has been suggested, but it’s possible. The problem is, those higher authorities are the very ones who are pressuring our store management to give out more “Meets Expectations” and forty cent raises. They’ve increased the amount given, but have made it impossible to attain it. Since our store is something of a trouble spot when it comes to payroll (we have a very high percentage of tenured associates; probably 30% of the payroll at our store has been there 10 years), it has become more difficult for newer associates to earn that $.60 raise. Regardless of how much one exceeds, there is always a caveat that holds them back. Most of the time, it’s a purely B.S. nitpick, but those who have fought it are usually shut down or bullied by management into backing down.

I put 110% into my job every day. Since I’m so reliable, I am constantly called upon by management to do three times the workload I should be doing, and without any extra compensation for my troubles. This is the case at many retail stores but Wal-Mart is one of the few that could afford to compensate us more, and chooses not to. I’ve been made to feel fromvlike I should take one for the team and learn to do myriad different tasks all over the store without a shred of an increase to show for it. It used to be that they’d offer a bit more compensation for doing things like joining the safety team or learning how to run the backroom equipment. Now you should do it “just to be a good associate”. Increase your personal value and get paid the same amount.

It’s not as black and white as anyone is really painting it. Going higher up is not “problem solved” - neither is Wal-Mart the source of all evil. Their compensation and benefits are competative when it comes to other retailers but as a larger company they could be doing more for their associates and they aren’t; they’re pocketing the money in bonus checks. For every innovation they have to save money, that money saved is going into the pockets of the corporate folks. Not to say they don’t deserve to be compensated for their work - but there’s quite a bit of excess there that could benefit their low paid associates actually making the stores run.

Sam’s focus was on people. He always spoke of people always loved to talk about his people. Even ten years ago when I got my first job as a buggy pusher at Wal-Mart (shortly after Sam’s death) Wal-Mart was still about people: associates and customers. Now they don’t seem to care much for either. (Example: dropping lay-a-away in this area will negatively impact our store’s profitability; we get 20% of our monthly profits from people on food stamps, the same kind of people who use lay-a-way frequently. These people could open up Christmas clubs but most of them admittedly aren’t that financially responsible. Which is why a suggested alternative low-interest credit card would really hurt our local economy.)

So… not really my two cents… more like two bucks. Crud, there goes half my pay check…

I might add to those on both sides of this that I’m utterly dismayed at the lack of maturity being displayed here. You’ve all made it personal and it doesn’t need to be. Some of these posts have the feel of a string of random, nonsensical, juvenile comments that I’d expect from teenagers ranting in their MySpace entries.

South Side-

Your posts really don’t merit a response, but I’ll humor you with a quick one.  The only position on the main issues you actually argued was that companies should provide health insurance:

Companies should provide benefits because
1. it’s the right (moral) thing to do
2. it boosts productivity
3. it boosts the image of the company in the community, thereby increasing sales and profits
4. this is the 21st century, not the 19th

1. Irrelevant.
2. That’s a good point, but all it shows is that offering health benefits is smart business.
3. See #2.
4. See #1.

Two quick counterpoints (both have been stated, but neither refuted):
1. Wal-Mart does offer health insurance.  It may not be what you people want, but they offer it.
2. Wal-Mart has no legal obligation to provide health benefits.

Also, you seem a bit more civil and rational than last time we “spoke.” I applaud you for that.

Point: “1. it’s the right (moral) thing to do.”

Counterpoint: “1. Irrelevant.”

I don’t want to put words in your mouth, Someone, but this isn’t the first time I’ve seen you use the irrelevant argument.  Is the concept of morality/ethics completely irrelevant in business? 

“2. Wal-Mart has no legal obligation to provide health benefits.”

I like this one, Someone.  The implication here is that if Wal-Mart had a “legal obligation” it would fulfill it?  If providing health care became a requisite of doing business in this country there is absloutely nothing to indicate Wal-Mart would obey that law any more than the myriad of other laws Bentonville chooses to violate.

Just for fun [url=http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=walmart+violations]Google[url] ‘walmart violations’.  You get 3,900,000 hits!

On second thought, Someone, you may be right.  Discussing morality in regard to Wal-Mart IS irelevant.  :o)

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=walmart+violations

Ken-

The point is that if there was such a law, then Wal-Mart would be obligated to obey it, validating the anti-Wal-Mart position.  There is no unspoken implication.

Unless we codify morality into law, it cannot be used to back claims.  I tend to believe in a more absolute moral structure, but in this “free country” each person is entitled to his own beliefs.  Hence, my ethical code may differ from yours.  Who’s correct?  Apparently it’s not politically correct to claim one is superior to the other, so how can we judge Wal-Mart’s obligations based on varying opinions regarding what is and is not right? What choice is there but to defer to the law?

Having just returned from a top secret location on vacation, I missed the discussion on this latest revelation about Lee Scott’s commitment to pure evil.  Did anyone bother to explain why it is important or even interesting that Lee Scott doesn’t know what a living wage is? I don’t. I don’t know that anyone could exactly quantify a “living wage” in any meaningful sense. Can any of you tell us what a living wage is in exact dollar amounts?

Ken V,

“If providing health care became a requisite of doing business in this country there is absloutely nothing to indicate Wal-Mart would obey that law”

As Someone said, “Wal-Mart does offer health insurance.  It may not be what you people want, but they offer it.”.  Therefore, if such a LAW was put in place, they would already be in compliance, unless the LAW mandated that the health insurance be paid for by the company at a higher percentage then they do now or if there were certain limitations on coverage, ie, $250 deductible or less.

This is outrageous!  Tim in Indy, if it weren’t for the people working at wal-mart you wouldn’t get a dividend check@!
All I make is 6.80 an hr!  And with my experience and hard work I deserve a much better pay than that.  What keeps me at my job is the people I work with and the customers.  It certainly is not the pay.  I really care about my customers and anything that damages the quality of service they receive I’m dead set against.  If Wal-Mart is not careful they will end up with people working for them that are so inexperienced customer will go elsewhere.  The turnover rates now are high and customer service ratings are low.
So if you want to stay in business you need to treat the people who are working for you better....or it will go the way of K-mart!!!!  Oh and as far as performance raises , there are none.  No employee of the month anymore.  So what’s and employees motivation to stay?

Mags wrote: “Having just returned from a top secret location on vacation...”

You’re smart to keep your whereabouts ‘top secret”, Mags.  I mean who wants to come back from vacation all covered with tar and feathers.  LOL

Bob and Someone don’t seem to have the fortitude to answer my question: “ Is the concept of morality/ethics completely irrelevant in business?” Maybe you’d like to take a shot at it, Mags?

In fairness to Someone he did babble an answer, but NOT the company line.

If Wal-Mart weren’t trying to appear ethcial, they wouldn’t have the Walmart Ethics Hotline 1-800-963-8442
email Ethics@wal-mart.com

No wonder Bentonville decided you freelance pro Wal-Mart (sock puppet) bloggers were a waste of time.  You can’t even get the company line down right.

Ken,

My bodyguards would never allow me to be tarred and feathered. Besides I have a strict “hippie perimeter” beyond which my security team strongly discourages hippie entry :)

“ Is the concept of morality/ethics completely irrelevant in business?”

Well, that depends. Strictly speaking, the answer is yes. Morality and ethics are irrelevant in business. Certainly in the sense that you use the terms “morality and ethics”. The problem with your question is that you can’t define these things in any meaningful way. When someone charges that a corporation should pay a “living wage” and then refuses to say what that means or give any reason that a corporation should do such a thing other than, “They can afford it”, it’s hard to say businesses should adhere to such a standard.

If by morality and ethics you mean that they should honor contracts and obey the law, then yes. The things that WalMart ends up being pilloried for here are vague ideas of its “obligation” to pay people higher wages and provide better benefits, even though they exceed legal requirements by a great deal.

I am ethical in my business dealings, but not to the point of absurdity. My charity work is the proper place to exercise my moral impulses. My business exists solely to reward my investment, work, and risk taking. If I hire a contractor to help me, am I being unethical if I refuse him a half share of the profits and instead pay him the market wage for his labor? You would say yes. Most people would say no.

Ken V,

“Bob and Someone don’t seem to have the fortitude to answer my question: “ Is the concept of morality/ethics completely irrelevant in business?”

I’ll take a shot at that, sure morality and ethics are relevant to a business, but the primary focus of a business is to drive maximum profits, without profits, there are no jobs.  Also, it depends on what your definition of Morality is, it can differ from person to person.  For example, is it morally proper to exclude people’s religious beliefs, to favor one group over another?  That is exactly what the whole “Merry Christmas” debate was all about, ‘Merry Christmas” favors Christians, but “Happy Holidays”, covers everyone.  Wal-Mart in the past, has been criticized for not offering, ‘the morning after pill’, some might argue that artifical abortion, is immoral and Wal-Mart was being pressured to act immorally.  Same thing with CD’s, DVD’s, etc., is nudity and foul language immoral? Some people think it is, others think it isn’t.  By the way, ethics and morality are not the same thing.

Ken-

If memory serves me right, you got upset the last time and dipped into my supply of prepackaged responses.  I was just trying to be original.  Do you have an answer to my response?

“If memory serves me right, you got upset the last time I dipped into my supply of prepackaged responses.”

Pesonally I would like to know where people are starting out at $5.00hr working at a Wal-Mart. At my store a Level 4 employee makes $8.65hr. So Level 1 would be $7.25hr, which is not a shabby starting place. I think that uniforms is a good idea for sprucing up the old image a bit. It would be an excellent change of pace. And I think Wal-Mart is trying to change the standard of the products that grocery stores sell, not change its target market to the upper middle class. Perhaps Wal-Mart is merely trying to cater to everyone, I have not seen any of the cheaper products pulled from the shelves. I can understand getting rid of layaway… I hardly ever see anyone back there anyways. I would say that is what banks are for… even a shoebox will work. I would say that the layaway dept area will change into a full use internet order pickup department… but that’s just my musings. For everyone who has worked at Wal-Mart for how ever many years and is now complaining of a hourly cap: I have never heard anyone say that you can make a career at Wal-Mart as an hourly employee. There is more than enough opportunities for everyone to move up. Tell your boss you want to learn how to order… how to do on-hand counts… how to use a picklist… how to see the sales and markup percentages… you learn how to do these things, and you WILL move up. If you’d prefer to do the day to day entry-level work… then you are choosing to stay within your hourly wage limits. Wal-Mart should NOT pay people $15hr to stock grocery shelves… or push carts… or any of the regular jobs. It is bad business… it makes absolutely no sense. If that were the case, then everyone would work at Wal-Mart forever. Wal-Mart would be paying so much wages that it would sink the company. It is a silly concept. Menial pay for menial jobs… that’s the way it is everywhere else… why should Wal-Mart be any different? The company doesn’t pull that much dough. You have to pester the people above you to show you how to do the things you need to know to move up.

There is a certain point where the concentration goes from individuals to corporation. I feel this happens at district level… at store level it should be all about the people, customers and employees alike. And it is. Wal-Mart should not be expected to higher wages because it makes money. Wal-Mart pays more than any other grocery chain with exception to Costco. That FACT has simply been ignored throughout this discussion. Scott Lee makes $19mil a year… GET OVER IT. Noboday is complaining about Derek Jeter, Dwayne Wade, T Owens, or any other professional athlete. At least Scott Lee is doing something constructive, and possibly worth $19mil. If anything… use Wal-Mart’s wages to go to trade school, or college and do something else with your life instead of complaining about how you are making $9hr to stock marshmallows and barbie dolls. Sorry, I am fed up with the whining.

YES, Wal-Mart has pulled a few shady moves… just like every other major company on the face of the earth. YES, Scott Leee does not know what a living wage constitutes… BUT NEITHER DO YOU!!! YES, Wal-Mart does business with China… they’d be stupid not to, at least they are probably the number one contributor to the United State’s GNP (Gross National Product). NO, you’re not getting paid $30,000/yr to do a menial job… NOBODY IS. NO, Wal-Mart does not care if you get your bonus… it’s a fair system, GET SALES!!! NO, Wal-Mart does offer alot of benefits to part-time employees… WHO DOES??!! YES, the root of your extra work is because you allow the employees around you to dump their work on you because you actually care about what is going on at Wal-Mart and they dont.

YES, I am done… still nothing too personal, but some people really do not see the big picture here… Wal-Mart is a business, and as far as I can tell, they are meeting and exceeding the standards that are there for employee treatment and payment/benefits. Wal-Mart’s corporate responsibility is to gain profit for its shareholders. On a store to store level it is to serve the customer. Wal-Mart IS struggling to change its image while maintaining its customer base and goal of low prices/quality merchandise.

Thanks for tuning in.

Still Smilin In Indiana - I am in agreement with you. I’m not the type to bash about my work enviorment, especially so publically. But as the days pass, I am coming to realize that if we fail to be a voice and get heard that it will keep on getting worse. I believe that’s how we have gotten into the predicament that we are facing now.
The management attitude is all across the board. Now a days I’m beginning to think that’s one of the job qualifications. Even concern that you bring before them, they shrug it off like water on a duck’s back. And that is as far as it goes.

Shame on Wal-Mart in NC - We were told last week in the morning meeting by my store manager that we will be reverting to the uniforms. He said that we are in one of the test districts, and that they were going to be really enforcing it in about 8 weeks.
I can understand where some of you guys are coming from. I think I mentioned earlier that I’ve been with the company 10 years, and I’ve never had a merit raise. Now that’s gotten shot to hell. I bust my butt in that store, and go into the lead positions that they want me in. But, they over use a lot of people. Myself, for instance. I’m on the in-stock team. I’m also leading the in-stock team until the person that’s gotten the position comes over there, as well as being the dry grocery dept. mgr.’s back up. And I can not tell you how many times I’ve had to juggle all 3 jobs at one time.
I’m not complaining about all the stuff that I have to do because Lord knows I love what I do (when I’m not stressing lol), but if you really appreciate your associates that are actually putting forth the extra effort and going that extra mile, you need to give them something more to let them know that you appreciate them more that just a pat on the back.
I’ve heard a rumor about the call-in’s as well. Well, Home Office will be like our store. We have 5 lines, and no one can STILL get a hold of management when they have to call in or whatever. ESPECIALLY if it’s before 7am.
I believe one of the next things that they will take away from us are our Christmas bonuses. Hell, since they’ve started taxing all of it, Uncle Sam gets most of it anyway.
This company was founded upon family values. What happened to them? Is this the way that Lee Scott and all of the other head honchos treat THEIR families?! I’d hope not!
It is so easy for some of you to say that if we are miserable in our jobs, to just change jobs. Well some of us don’t have the luxury of being able to do that. In the town that I live in, jobs are few and far in between, and if you actually do find a job position open somewhere, you either have to have connections there, or (pardon my French) a dick between your legs.
Sam Walton stressed to each and every associate to use the Open Door policy. And I know that today’s policy is a LOT different from back then and that 95% of the time it does not work. But, I am still going to fight for what I believe is right because that’s how I was raised. I may still go to my grave fighting this, but I WILL NOT GO DOWN WITHOUT A FIGHT! I have put in too much sweat, tears, and time away from my family to just sit there and let things just happen. I am not naive to think that my fight will win any major battles. But, I hope that there is something that I have said that will spark a lil something in someone else, and cause a chain reaction.

UNITED WE STAND!

Mags wrote: “If by morality and ethics you mean that they should honor contracts and obey the law, then yes.”

That’s EXACTLY what I mean, Mags.  Thank you.

You’re too smart to be a sock puppet, Mags.  I just hope they’re paying you well.

Myra asked: “I’VE HEARD THAT THERE IS STILL SEVERAL FLIGHTS LEFT HAS ANYONE HEARD WHAT THEY ARE?”

Here’s a post copied from another blog. I hope it answers your questions.

“Just wanted you to know.... you can get a lot of the information about the new policies and such on the wire.
Just go to the “search option” and type in NEW STORE STRUCTURE.
It will give you pages of new things that are happening in the stores or will be implemented in your store soon.
It states about scheduling, instock team, front line, attendance, how many people will be in each department, what hours they will be needed....a full layout of schedules for Department Supervisors, Assistants, Co’s and Store Manager hours. Which postitions will no longer be available, who will be in charge of the postions that are no longer available....someone’s got to do it!
Print them out at work and pass them around so everyone can get informed! “