Video: Why the Employee Free Choice Act Matters

Published on Monday, September 8, 2008 by The Seattle Times
David May Talk, Goliath May Walk
by David Sirota

“This is a David-and-Goliath confrontation, but we believe we’ll have enough stones in the sling to knock this out.”

That is a recent statement from the U.S. Chamber of Commerce when asked whether business lobbyists will defeat the Employee Free Choice Act (EFCA) - a labor-backed bill that cribs from Canadian law and makes joining a union a tiny bit easier. In the imminent confrontation over this almost embarrassingly modest proposal, corporations are actually billing themselves as the underdog - the poor, overmatched peasant David against the Philistine monster Goliath.

To the propaganda-numbed ear, it sounds plausible. History books and Washington news releases have seared a corporate hagiography into the public discourse - one mythologizing business as the brave little guy fighting the good fight against all-powerful union puppet masters - even as labor’s agenda has been stomped for a generation.

In truth, if the EFCA is “a David-and-Goliath confrontation,” then labor is David and the unholy business-politician alliance is Goliath - and that is an understatement. In a political system run by money, this is the United States invading Grenada, Sherman blazing into Atlanta, German tanks challenging Polish horses. This is the NBA All-Star squad playing a high-school team; Hulk Hogan arm-wrestling Gary Coleman; Michael Phelps competing in the Special Olympics.

In short, the struggle pitting Big Business and bought-off lawmakers against workers has been a cruel joke.

According to the nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics, corporate executives at Goliath, Inc. spent $17 billion lobbying Congress in the last decade. Labor leaders at David’s union hall mustered $333 million. In the 2008 election, business interests have outspent unions 18-to-1 on campaign contributions.(Continued)

Of course, with Democrats poised to win the election, many believe the EFCA is a fait accompli because of the fallacy that unions own the Democratic Party. What a laugh.

During the 1990s, Bill Clinton helped the Gordon Gekkos crash the Democratic Party, infamously translating his support for NAFTA, telecom deregulation and Wall Street favors into campaign checks. Today, business has given 10 times the cash to Democratic candidates that labor has coughed up. In that context, a Democratic sweep in 2008 automatically assures EFCA’s passage about as much as Chevron’s environmental ads guarantee the oil industry’s commitment to seriously fighting climate change.

That said, corporations’ underdog act reveals their authentic fear that EFCA could pass next year - and it certainly could. That’s because America is not (yet) a pure plutocracy. To the dismay of the country-club crowd, workers still get most of the votes in elections, and this time around, they may actually vote their wallets.

The 2008 campaign has become a referendum on the results of conservative economic policy, and 30 years into Ronald Reagan’s class war, those results are stark. As the government stopped enforcing labor laws, business ramped up union busting, union membership plummeted and workers predictably lost ground. Today, industry profits rise, wages decrease and white-collar theft gets more audacious. Just last week, The Wall Street Journal reported that companies are raiding employees’ pension funds “to finance their executives’ retirement benefits and pay.” (If workers got a dime for every story like this, their pay would be much higher.)

In response to this predatory behavior, the prey is getting smart. Polls now show most Americans say they would join a union if given the chance (i.e., if they could without facing the employer retribution that EFCA is designed to prevent). The country has figured out that in an everyone-for-themselves capitalism, there is safety in numbers.

And so far away from the power lunches and Gucci gulches of Washington, unions have been organizing this realization into grass-roots pressure - and it might be just enough to pass the EFCA. The Davids have discovered that money may talk, but enough voters may be able to make Goliath walk.~~~~~~~~~~Common Dreams

If you really favor ‘EMPLOYEE FREE CHOICE’ why not eliminate ‘closed shops’!!  In a ‘closed shop’, you either join the union or lose your job!!  How is that ‘FREE CHOICE’?  If you choose the union FINE have it, but if you DON’T want the union, you shouldn’t be FORCED to join!!

Machinist strike grounds Boeing

The Associated Press

Sunday, September 7th 2008, 4:00 AM

EVERETT, Wash. - Boeing Co. machinists walked out on strike yesterday after contract talks arbitrated by a federal mediator failed to produce an agreement.

About 100 union members hoisted their strike signs at 12:01 a.m. outside the Boeing plant in this city north of Seattle, cheering and blasting air horns at passing cars, many of which honked back.

“It’s been about lack of respect,” said Steve Morrison, 42, a tester at the Everett plant.

This is the machinists’ second strike in as many contract negotiations with Boeing. They struck for 24 days in 2005.

The machinists assemble Boeing’s commercial planes and some key components. Key strike issues include pay, outsourcing, retirement and health care benefits.

The company said it would not try to assemble planes during the strike.

Analysts have said a strike could cost Boeing about $100 million per day in deferred revenue. The average Boeing machinist earns $27 an hour, or about $56,000 a year, before overtime and incentives.

Testimony of Raymond W. Bracy
Business Director, Asia Pacific
President, Boeing China, Inc.

Before the House Banking and Financial Services Committee
February 3, 1998 (Excerpt)

Mr. Chairman, Members of the Committee. My name is Ray Bracy. For the past year, I have managed the Asia Pacific sales portfolio of The Boeing Company’s Commercial Airplane Group and will soon be Boeing’s chief representative in China.  Our work in Asia taught us the importance of relationships. We have an opportunity to strengthen those relationships through our words and our deeds.

For example, we need to acknowledge and reinforce the critical role that China is playing by integrating China more deeply into multilateral institutions such as the global trading system. We need to maintain U.S. support for open trade and resist the temptation to adopt” trade-restricting policies” to accommodate the anticipated influx of imports into the U.S. market. ~~~~~~~~~Note: Raymond Bracy is listed on current,2008,the FEC lobbyist documents for WalMart, lobbying on tax issues ,and, Chinese imports and Chinese currency. He is currently Vice President of Corporate Affairs for WalMart. As Head of Boeing China,prior to joining WalMart, I wonder if he was a union member of Boeing,too?BTW,it appears that our government was successful beyond his wildest dreams in resisting” trade restricting policies” with regards to imports in the ten years since Bracy made those public statements.

“pay, outsourcing, retirement and health care benefits.” RDS

Which of those do you consider to be frivolous issues, RDS?

Are you going to post the salaries of the CFO, CEO and other top executives at Boeing in your next post?

“Which of those do you consider to be frivolous issues, RDS?”

Depends on what they are getting already!!

“Are you going to post the salaries of the CFO, CEO and other top executives at Boeing in your next post?”

It figures that you would come back with the ‘class warfare’ arguement, as if everybody has an EQUAL amount of work and responsibility!!  Just like with Wal-Mart, to you, a cart pusher has the same amount of work and responsibility as the CEO!!

“a cart pusher has the same amount of work and responsibility as the CEO!!” ~RDS

Thanks for another contribution to my “RDS Dumb Statements File”!

I challenge you to produce a quote from myself, Ken V, ddrb… heck I just challenge you to produce a quote from anyone (besides yourself) who has said, cart pushers at Wal-Mart should be compensated at the same level as the CEO.

If you really care about peoples rights, why take away the right to a vote? how is that benefiting anyone but unions? Vote, let all people give their honest opinion. This act takes away that right.

“If you choose the union FINE have it, but if you DON’T want the union, you shouldn’t be FORCED to join!! “
RDS in

And if you dont join the Union or pay Union dues, you should NOT enjoy the fruits of Union Negotiated benefits & Raises!

But in non- closed shops, those that do not join the Union or pay dues still get the fruits of those that do. Thus the reason for closed shops.

RDS- mentality- get as much as you can for free off of the backs of those who work for it!- (sounds like a Walmart operating procedure)

I am sooo burned on the whole short sighted “Pro” Wal-Mart people. I love to give everyone the benefit of the doubt… But am feeling that someone has put something in the Water out There in Wal*Mart land. Wal*Mart should change its company slogan to “Ignorance is Bliss”. Sadly, the people who shop there wouldn’t even notice… Wal*Mart didn’t screw up America in a day and it will take a while to straighten it back out…

“Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent.”

Calvin Coolidge

Exposing the Opposition: The Facts on the Critics of the Employee Free Choice Act
While pretending to protect the well-being of U.S. workers, anti-union corporate special interests are tripping over each other and sparing no expense to bully lawmakers, misinform the public, and oppose free choice for workers. Here are a few facts on who’s behind the attack on the Employee Free Choice Act.

Opponents of the Employee Free Choice Act

Coalition for a Democratic Workplace (CDW)
The deceptively-titled astroturf group claims a workers’ rights agenda and a grassroots base representing “rank-and-file workers from across the country” who are opposed to the Employee Free Choice Act.

MEMBERSHIP: Grassroots claim conceals corporate agenda.  CDW masquerades as a workers’ rights group, mimicking the rhetoric and even logo of legitimate organizations.  Not surprisingly, no workers are named as members on CDW’s website, but hundreds of national, deep-pocketed groups and their affiliates are—including the National Association of Manufacturers, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, and the National Retail Federation.
U.S. Chamber of Commerce
The nation’s most powerful business lobbying organization co-chairs the Coalition for a Democratic Workplace.

RESOURCES: The Chamber’s war chest.  In 2006, the Chamber spent a record $72 million on lobbying.  VP for labor policy Randel Johnson told The New York Times, “We’ve targeted [The Employee Free Choice Act] as our No. 1 or No. 2 priority to defeat.”

TACTIC: CDW and Chamber join forces to make “people feel pain.” Operating from the same playbook and talking points, both CDW and the Chamber have launched extensive media campaigns in target states to shame and reprimand House Representatives who voted to pass the Employee Free Choice Act, and intimidate Senators out of following suit.  In a Congress Daily article about the expensive ad buy, a Chamber spokesperson said, “We’re making people feel pain.”

Center for Union Facts
This PR-focused front group creates lavish ads and relentless spin to try to damage the public image of unions and further an anti-union business climate.

LEADERSHIP: Alcohol, tobacco, and fast food industry hired gun Rick Berman.  The group is a creation of notorious industry lobbyist and PR flak Richard Berman, who has mounted campaigns for his corporate backers to relax drunken driving laws, discount public health concerns about obesity, and prevent increases in the minimum wage.

TACTIC: Over-the-top radio, TV, and print ads.  In August 2006, Montana’s Attorney General Mike McGrath called the Center’s $1 million ad campaign attacking public employees “inaccurate” and “demeaning.” Similarly, a number of television stations refused to air commercials produced by the Center in 2006.

TACTIC: Playing loose and dirty with the facts.  Berman routinely misinterprets data, grossly exaggerates, and offers dubious statistics to further the agenda of his corporate clients.  For example, as the Senate launched hearings and introduced the Employee Free Choice Act in March 2007, the Center released misleading figures based on National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) data that minimized the number of illegal firings during union election campaigns.  Both Republican and Democratic Senate staff requested clarification on the group’s claims from the NLRB.  Staff at the NLRB swiftly responded to report Berman’s data cannot be substantiated. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~American Rights at Work

RDS: The tired ,trite references to “class warfare” and” class envy” are straight from a WalMart script,namely this one:"Why Wal-Mart Works; and Why That Drives Some People C-R-A-Z-Y is a documentary funded by the Wal-Mart Company as a rebuttal to the controversial documentary Wal-Mart: The High Cost of Low Price. In the documentary it states its case that many of the criticisms are born out of jealousy.[1]

Ron Galloway, the director of the documentary, would later turn against the company following the implementation of wage caps for some workers.[2] The documentary has been criticized for being biased and amateurish.[3][4]~~~~~~Wikipedia~Yep, sounds like you got the same scriptwriter as the biased,amateurish,Pro-WalMart movie did. And its STILL just as unsuccessful and even LESS convincing,today as when the film first debuted (and flopped) several years ago. Having"clas" and having money are NOT the same thing,RDS. If I were to envy class, it wouldn’t be the WalMart /Walton variety.

Labor 2008 Strategy Memo

Our Challenge

With such a favorable electoral landscape, it would seem victory would be easily in our grasp. John McCain, however, is well aware of America’s distaste for President Bush’s policies. McCain knows he can’t run on his own record or on Bush’s, so he’s hoping to make this election a referendum on Obama.

Put simply, McCain’s plan is to scare voters away from Obama by painting him as “Other.” To combat that effort, we have aggressively moved to provide accurate biographical information about Barack Obama to our members and stop these smears on his character.

At the Senate level, our challenge is even greater. During this past congressional session, every legislative priority of working families has been stymied or stopped by the minority in the Senate. To break this stranglehold on our priorities, we need to elect 60 senators who share our pro-worker agenda. As an example, there are currently 51 senators—a majority—who support the Employee Free Choice Act. Thus, to provide workers a free choice to join a union and bargain for a better life, we need to not only win the presidency, but we need to win nine more Senate seats. This is an almost unprecedented number of new Senate seats to win in one year, but we’ve identified 11 races that we believe we can win, and we’re going to do everything we can to make that happen.

Our Plan—Labor 2008

At the core of our Labor 2008 program is an intensive member-to-member communication program focused on our target universe of 3 million swing union voters. Through intensive polling, focus group work and message testing, we are able to identify and microtarget swing union voters in critical states with messages matched to their individual concerns.

We will communicate our core messages with these 3 million swing union voters in a multi-layered fashion, including direct mail, phone calls, worksite leafleting, e-mails and home visits. People like you are what make these communications streams so powerful and effective. Union members and union leaders have significant credibility on the issues, particularly those which affect America’s workers. 

To give you a sense of the scale of our member-to-member communications stream, in the coming 55 days, the AFL-CIO will activate a network of over 250,000 volunteers in 24 targeted states to educate our members on the issues. As a part of this effort, we will:

Knock on 10 million doors.
Send 25 million pieces of mail.
Make 70 million phone calls.
Drop 20 million leaflets.
Activate our 4 million-person e-mail network.

Our Messaging

With the steady erosion of the American middle class, our core message this election cycle involves drawing clear comparisons between the policies and positions of Barack Obama and John McCain on the economy. Obama is committed to building an economy that works for all, protecting workers’ rights and fighting for health care for all.

In 2007, Obama voted with working families 100 percent of the time in the Senate, whereas McCain voted with George Bush 95 percent of the time.

In addition to educating union voters about Obama and McCain’s positions on economic issues, we are aggressively countering the smear campaign against Obama designed to paint him as somehow being “different” from the rest of us. We already have sent mail to hundreds of thousands of union members presenting the facts on Obama’s religious beliefs, his upbringing and more.

Down-Ballot Races—510 additional races

Winning the presidency is not enough for working families. Barack Obama and Joe Biden are committed to helping America’s workers, but we know that we need more pro-worker politicians in every level of the government. Most critical is ensuring that we have 60 pro-worker votes in the U.S. Senate. Beyond that, we are focused on several hundred state-level races, including governor races and highly targeted legislative races where control of the state legislature hangs in the balance.

In total, we’re investing resources in 510 races this cycle, in addition to the presidential race. Broken down, this means we’re getting directly involved in 11 Senate races, 61 House races, 4 governor races and 434 state legislature races. Each of these races has been carefully selected and vetted to ensure that the candidates are committed to pro-worker policies and where the investment of our scarce time and resources will be most effective.

(Continued)

Protecting the Vote

The key to protecting our vote is to start early and build relationships with boards of elections. From there, we work to ensure there are adequate voting machines in every location and that there are accessible early-vote locations in states that allow early voting.

Finally, we are helping boards of elections find and train more poll workers—and, yes, we are building a network of lawyers who will be available by phone to address any issues if they arise prior to, or even during, election day.

Labor 2008—13 Million Strong—We Have the Power to Make the Difference

Together, we truly have a wonderful opportunity to make America a better place for all working families.

Karen Ackerman
AFL-CIO Political Director

And, who says Wal-Mart was trying to influence the outcome of the election!!  Wal-Mart had a meeting, just look at what the unions are doing!!

“Protecting the Vote”

Guess ‘taking away a union vote’ is protecting the vote!!

“build relationships with boards of elections....we are helping boards of elections find and train more poll workers”

Talk about ‘hands on’ influence, going right to work on the election boards directly!!

“In a ‘closed shop’, you either join the union or lose your job!!  How is that ‘FREE CHOICE’? ~RDS (Bob)

Tell us about the choice Walmart threats its employee’s with Bob. Join a union and lose your job!! How is the ‘Free Choice’?

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse

R E M E M B E R
J A C K S O N V I L L E
T E X A S
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse

Michelle,

“And if you dont join the Union or pay Union dues, you should NOT enjoy the fruits of Union Negotiated benefits & Raises!

But in non- closed shops, those that do not join the Union or pay dues still get the fruits of those that do.”

So, what, if you want the union, PAY FOR IT!!  If others who didn’t want it get the benefit also, TOO BAD, to do otherwise, is discrimination!!  Funny how if Wal-Mart forces someone to do their jobs, it is WRONG, but, if the unions force people to pay dues or quit, that is perfectly OKAY!!

ddrb,

“RDS: The tired ,trite references to “class warfare” and” class envy” are straight from a WalMart script,namely this one:"Why Wal-Mart Works; and Why That Drives Some People C-R-A-Z-Y is a documentary funded by the Wal-Mart Company as a rebuttal to the controversial documentary Wal-Mart: The High Cost of Low Price. In the documentary it states its case that many of the criticisms are born out of jealousy.”

When did you ever hear me say anything about the Wal-Mart funded movie?  The point is, that whenever a documentary is made and PAID for, by people who have ‘skin in the game’, it will probably be filled with distortions, half-truths and outright lies (the Wal-Mart movie included)!!  That is why I tend to disregard those entities as being FACT and try to find unbiased sources!!  Therefore, I go by what I SEE and what I hear from employees directly and surly wouldn’t believe anything said by people who have NO DIRECT involvement!!

If you aren’t trying to compare employee pay with CEO pay, why does your side keep bringing it up?

“Funny how if Wal-Mart forces someone to do their jobs, it is WRONG, but, if the unions force people to pay dues or quit, that is perfectly OKAY!!

Force? Walmart doesn’t use force?
They force our manufacturers to offshore.
They force our workers to take cover when legally joining a union.
They force workers to preform ‘off the clock’.
Tell us more about force Bob.

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse

R E M E M B E R
J A C K S O N V I L L E
T E X A S
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse

So, what, if you want the union, PAY FOR IT!!  If others who didn’t want it get the benefit also, TOO BAD, to do otherwise, is discrimination. RDS

AS I said, the RDS mentality- get as much as you can for free off of the backs of those who work hard & pay for it!
(a Walmart operating procedure)

Wouldn’t this attitude be considered cowardly in the Military?

I have to wonder what the pro people are waisting their time here for anyway… Shouldn’t they be out at a cross burning, or turd toss or something? What do people who worry about keeping Wal*Mart “Status Quo” do in their free time? And why are they so aligned with Wal*Mart? What are they sooo worried about?

Oh, I see its dinner time. I guess I’ll get out the fresh ground round I bought at Safeway, and grille some gourmet burgers for the family.

I bought the round steaks on sale for $1.37lb super sale and had the UNION butcher grind them up, for ground round!

does walmart have this type of great customer service & pricing on fresh meat?

NOT!

Walmart doesnt sell fresh meat, let alone have anyone to cut or grind it to order!

Thats right, Walmarts meat is 17% saline solution thats been on the shelf for who knows how long- Who would feed their family that poison garbage?  RDS!

Alex,

“Tell us about the choice Walmart threats its employee’s with Bob. Join a union and lose your job!! How is the ‘Free Choice’?”

Sounds like that is NO different to what a union does, when they set up a closed shop!!  No matter how many years you may have worked for a company, when a ‘closed shop’ gets in, it’s either join the union or lose your job!!

Sounds like the results are the SAME whether the company gets rid of you or the union does!!

Michelle,

“Oh, I see its dinner time. I guess I’ll get out the fresh ground round I bought at Safeway, and grille some gourmet burgers for the family.”

Well, good for you, luckily for you, there isn’t a group of people trying to shut down that Safeway and you were able to shop where YOU pleased!!  Don’t like Wal-Mart, fine, but, please don’t try to TELL me, where I can shop!!

“I bought the round steaks on sale for $1.37lb super sale”

Do you think that super sale, will be still on next week or is that just a ‘loss leader’ of the week?

“thats been on the shelf for who knows how long”

And, do you actually know for sure, how long that meat you bought, was in the back room cooler?  Maybe it was so ‘cheap’ because it was near it’s expiration date!!  Enjoy!!

“Sounds like the results are the SAME whether the company gets rid of you or the union does!!"~RDS(Bob)

The union doesn’t get rid of you. You pay dues.
However your company [Walmart] does use force to get rid of workers who want a say in their workplace. However WM’s force is declining. But the question must still be asked.
Why don’t you rag on WM?

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse

R E M E M B E R
J A C K S O N V I L L E
T E X A S
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse

“please don’t try to TELL me, where I can shop!!” ~RDS

The more I read your rants RDS, the more you strike me as a pathetic little man who believes his judgement is the best for everybody else, even when reality to the contrary stares you in the face!

“Do you think that super sale, will be still on next week or is that just a ‘loss leader’ of the week?” ~RDS

Since you shop at WalMart RDS, you would know all about loss leaders.

Once again, I have to redirect your attention to what Robertdfeinman said about you not long ago:

“If you think your role is to say “black” whenever someone else says “white” then you contribute nothing to the discussion. Apparently you get some personal satisfaction out of doing this, you must have a pretty unexciting life…” ~Robertdfeinman

Wouldn’t this attitude be considered cowardly in the Military?

Don’t ask RDS about the military, Michelle. He’s disabled and couldn’t serve.  So as far as duty and service to country is concerned, RDS has been getting a free ride his whole life.

The upside is when RDS picks up a cheap shirt made in Viet Nam it doesn’t give him nightmares.

What’s good for Wal-Mart is BAD for America!

...RDS has been getting a free ride his whole life.

So, now you are bashing on RDS because you’re ex-military, and he’s not?

The “free ride” thing doesn’t sound too much different than Mr. Screwed and a few others on your side of the fence.

Best put a zip on it while you’re ahead, Kenbo…

Alex,

“The union doesn’t get rid of you. You pay dues.”

But, what if you didn’t want the union and it’s DUES?  Then they get rid of you!!  Why should you HAVE to PAY someone to KEEP your job, when you didn’t have to before?

Screwedby,

“The more I read your rants RDS, the more you strike me as a pathetic little man who believes his judgement is the best for everybody else”

That sounds more like YOU, after all, I just want things to stay the SAME, it’s YOU that wants people to believe in YOUR judgement!!  And, you can’t even convince your own mother that you are RIGHT and she is WRONG!!

Ken V,

“Don’t ask RDS about the military, Michelle. He’s disabled and couldn’t serve.”

One last time, I was NEVER and am not now DISABLED (That’s just a LIE that Screwedby came up with to justify his readiness to run to Canada, if he got drafted)!!  I just didn’t get drafted, but, I was eligible for the draft!!  In fact, I did try to join the ARMY at age 17, but my dad wouldn’t sign for me!!

“The upside is when RDS picks up a cheap shirt made in Viet Nam it doesn’t give him nightmares.”

So what, are those ‘cheap shirts’ made by the Viet Cong?  Do you think that people should boycott things made in Germany, because of Hitler?  How long does it take for you to go on with your life?  Should ‘blacks’ not buy American products, because we once had slavery?

You Gotta Stop Your Nonsense, RDS!

I’m gonna need a bigger hard drive soon if I keep saving the outrageous statements you make RDS!

So let me get this straight.  You’re comparing Vietnam to Germany, right?

Ummm....lets see, Germany would largely be considered a Western country, right?  I hope this doesn’t come as a surprise to you RDS, but Saigon fell to the North Vietnamese...those would be the Communists and the Viet Cong, in 1975.  I guess you choose not to remember the scenes of babies being passed over barbed wire fences as the U.S. made a hasty retreat, leaving many South Vietnamese to their fates.

“are those ‘cheap shirts’ made by the Viet Cong?” ~RDS

Don’t be so obtuse, RDS.  What do you think?

On second thought… don’t tell us what you think.  It’s too scary!

“The union doesn’t get rid of you. You pay dues.”
“But, what if you didn’t want the union and it’s DUES?"~Bob(RDS)

Why does Walmart have its union busting team ready to jump into a jet at a moments notice if these people truely exist?

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse

R E M E M B E R
J A C K S O N V I L L E
T E X A S
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse

Thanks for the info on RDS, Ken & Screwed. It gives some insight on why he dodges or spins the issues & has the attitude of reaping, from what others sowed! When it comes to Union membership & Dues.

It’s unfortunate you weren’t able to serve in the military RDS, You could have joined at 18, since your Dad did not sign for you at 17. Some how I sense some spin there, too, as in most of your blogs.

As far as the round steak, RDS, Safeway sold it so fast there was no time for it to sit on the shelf. Thus it was fresh cut and put out as fast as the customers could get it. (something you wont see at walmart) The Safeway I shop at invites there customers into the butcher area to see the cleanliness & freshness.

Walmart-hides everything, they even have a secret complex, I think Ken has written about it.

Why anyone would feed there family anything from walmart is beyond me!  The food poisoning from jalpenos walmart has sold in CO.  is coming back to bite them.

Of course if you were RDS why would you care what your family ate, as long as you saved a few cents, garbage, tainted vegetables, meat pumped full of all types of preservatives etc. All Good for RDS’s family cause he got em at walmart & saved!  Or did he -save?

Michelle,

“It gives some insight on why he dodges or spins the issues & has the attitude of reaping, from what others sowed! When it comes to Union membership & Dues.”

First, I was a member of the TEAMSTERS for 11 years and paid dues and here’s what I reaped for what I sowed, my pension money went out the window, when Jimmy Hoffa and his gang, walked off with our money!!

“It’s unfortunate you weren’t able to serve in the military RDS, You could have joined at 18, since your Dad did not sign for you at 17. Some how I sense some spin there, too, as in most of your blogs.”

You seem to act, like I was the ONLY person who didn’t serve in the Viet Nam war!!  You also seem to forget, that back in the 1960’s, a man was not considered an adult until he was 21, not 18!!  And, one last thing on the subject, as the Viet Nam war was not considered something this country REAPED anything from, men were not lining up to join the service, most people waited to be drafted and others were heading to Canada when they received their draft notices!!  Even, when the soldiers came back, they were not welcomed with open arms, many were ‘spit’ on and called ‘baby killers’!!  So, don’t pretend that I shunned my duty in the fight for our ‘freedom’!!

Lastly, where I choose to buy my food, is none of your business and don’t spout total LIES about how ALL Wal-Mart’s food is tainted and garbage!!  After all, over 100 million Wal-Mart shoppers disagree with you!!  And, I haven’t been sick (other than a cold) or hospitalized in over 40 years, can you say the same?

If you like to shop the UNIONIZED stores, good for you, but, I have seen the results of unions, so I don’t choose to shop in those stores, that’s know as CHOICE!!

BTW: Where did you serve during the Viet Nam war, to sow what YOU are reaping?

People are missing the point.  Whatever your feelings about unions the fact of the matter is that people have the RIGHT to form one.  What good is a right if it’s gotten to the point where you can’t actually practice it realistically?  The “right” to form a union these days is about as realistic as the “right” to free speech in Cuba, China, or Russia (all of their constitutions say that the people have this “right").  In other words if you try to exercise this “right” there will be consequences.

If I were to even mention the word “union” at my store I would be fired for some absurd reason.  You sign something that says that you can be fired for any reason that the company decides these days when you get a job.  The only exception to this is if it’s illegal (i.e., “He’s a black guy” or “She’s a Jehovah’s Witness” or anything discriminatory like that). 

What’s depressing is that a lot of times the demands of the employees are modest and include basic provisions like a little bit more over their minimum wage salaries or not being treated like pieces of garbage at work.  You would think that people are asking for a million dollars an hour or the right to get drunk and high at work with sixteen weeks of vacation pay.  If a company is afraid of unions than they should make sure that they are acting right and not jerking their employees around.  If this is the case than they have nothing to worry about.  Rhetoric about treating their workers the right way is NOT the same thing as actually doing this, either.

“First, I was a member of the TEAMSTERS for 11 years and paid dues and here’s what I reaped for what I sowed, my pension money went out the window, when Jimmy Hoffa and his gang, walked off with our money!!"~RDS(Bob)

Here is what happens when you trust your employer to care for your pension. This is the same theif that just went to prision for his dealings with his newspaper empire:

http://www.adjustment.ca/example.shtml?x=96

Dominion Food Stores
The historic case of Conrad Black, owner of the Dominion Food Store Chain has important implications for the discussion over ownership of Pension Plan Surpluses.

In 1984, Black withdrew over $56 million from the pension plan surplus without consulting plan members. Black considered the surplus the rightful property of the employer.

But the RWDSU local involved challenged the decision, saying the surplus belonged to the members and a huge public outcry against Conrad Black followed.

The Supreme Court of Ontario eventually ruled against Black on this case and ordered him to return the money to the pension fund, claiming that though the most recent language in the plan suggested the employer had ownership of the surplus, the original intention was to keep the surplus in the plan to increase members’ benefits.

This case forced the Ontario government to create a temporary moratorium on the withdrawal of pension plan surpluses until a new law could be developed. It also has affected the way the Court has ruled in a number of cases.

Unions now have a very good chance of winning cases against employers in the case of a surplus ownership.

Generic,

“What’s depressing is that a lot of times the demands of the employees are modest and include basic provisions like a little bit more over their minimum wage salaries or not being treated like pieces of garbage at work.”

Here’s the problem:  It starts out, the way you mentioned, but, once the union gets in, the attitude changes and it becomes nothing is ever enough!!  You say, “a little bit more over their minimum wage salaries”, what EXACTLY does that mean?  Do you NOT now get raises?  How much of a raise in pay would you consider “a little bit more”?  Example: At Boeing, they are on strike, they were making $27.00 an hour now and were offered a $3.07 raise over three years ($1.35 the first year, $.85 the second year and $.87 the third year), and they turned it down as not enough!!  When it comes to a union, NOTHING is ever enough, every year there needs to be MORE and MORE gains!!

As for “being treated like pieces of garbage at work” what does that MEAN?  Most workers think they are being asked to more than they should!!  What you actually are saying, is, ‘we want more pay for doing less work’!!  EXACTLY, what do YOU think would be a ‘good’ rate of pay, for a ‘greeter’ or a ‘cart retriever’?

Alex,

“Here is what happens when you trust your employer to care for your pension.”

Sounds much the SAME as what I stated happens when the UNION was in charge of the pension fund!!  Maybe, that is why pensions are being replaced by 401K’S, held by ‘outside’ sources!!

“Maybe, that is why pensions are being replaced by 401K’S, held by ‘outside’ sources!!"~RDS (Bob)

Don’t know anything about your 401K’s.
We have Canada Pension Plan through government but also company or union pensions. Also old age pension plans through government also.

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“We have Canada Pension Plan through government “

Most our pensions are financed by the government now too, because of stories like RDS’s and companies going out of business.

RDS, when it comes to retail or service sector jobs in general what you are realistically going to get paid has a certain cutoff point (unless you work for Costco or Whole Foods or some exception to the norm).  Most people working retail aren’t asking for the moon on a silver platter - they just want to be able to pay bills and maybe have some kind of leisure/social life.  Getting paid $7.50 an hour is just a step up from being homeless, and frankly, to me is an insult.

Your example of Boeing is an extreme case.  If that is your yardstick for what a union is than my yardstick for retail is Costco and ALL retail jobs should pay a Costco salary (see the absurdity of this logic?).

You are also missing the point.  My point is that you have the RIGHT to form a union - regardless of what you feel about it - just like we both have the RIGHT to voice our opinions - regardless of what anyone thinks about it.  The BEST “defense” against a union from the standpoint of the business is to treat workers like human beings (as much as possible).

As far as treating people like garbage, do I really have to explain what that means?  How about treating people the same way that you would treat a hammer or a wrench (even if this is what they are in the grand scheme of things)?  How about embarrassing people, talking down to them, insulting them and openly mocking them in front of their coworkers?  How about telling people “I don’t care if you work here or not, you can be replaced in a heartbeat.” How about never giving people positive reinforcement and basically telling them that nothing is ever good enough?  How about pushing them and pushing them and pushing them and pushing them to work like robots.  How about firing them because they don’t kiss enough butt or snitch on their coworkers?  How about screwing them over on their raises?  How about threatening to take someone outside and beat them up because they are making a legitimate point about their workload?  How about breaking company rules with impunity and not being held accountable?  How about management hanging out with and sleeping with workers?  I could go on and on but I think you get my point.  I have seen ALL of these things happen and they are not right.

By the way, if you try to fight back against this you WILL be retaliated against.  This even happens to co-managers (which is a step below store managers) - if they say the wrong thing or don’t step in line they will be DEMOTED (this applies to assistant managers as well).  This is NOT an issue of “I’m lazy and I don’t want to work so I want a union” or anything like this.

If corporations would do what they are supposed to do than there would be no NEED for unions - just like if people did what they were supposed to do in their everyday lives there would be no need for police.

What’s sad about human beings is that nine times out of ten if they CAN do something they will - which is why “conservatives” and “libertarians” are in the wrong when it comes to economics in many ways.

“Most our pensions are financed by the government now too, because of stories like RDS’s and companies going out of business."~Dave

Interesting Dave. How does all this government influence sit with those ‘Libertarians’ when the market by itself does not work with regard to employee pensions?

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Actually the free market has corrected it in that most companies are now changing the way that they are doing pensions, and are switching to individual accounts like 401k.  Instead of a group fund like pensions.  This way the union bosses don’t handle the money which makes it harder for them to steal it, and it doesn’t matter if the company goes under because the money is already in an account for you.

Dave,

Did you see now, where the U.S. auto makers are asking for a goverment ‘bailout’ (as much as $50 BILLION)?  Employee ‘legacy payments’ are draining the companies dry!!  They have ‘bought out’ many employees pensions, but, the ones that are left are still a drag, with the recession, high gas prices and low truck & SUV sales!!

Dave, the concept of a totally free market is impossible and has never existed - even when the U.S. was the closest to this in practice.  The result was massive poverty and the rich jerking the poor around (indentured servitude anyone?).  This mythology of a totally free market and “the market will fix it, big government is bad” is just as absurd and illogical as a centralized and planned economy (i.e., “communism").  In either one of these scenarios people suffer and starve.  This is why “communist” countries always adopt market mechanisms and “reforms” and why “capitalist” countries start adopting aspects of “state socialism” because the rhetoric does not match the reality in either case.  Something has to actually WORK in the real world before it is practiced.

“This way the union bosses don’t handle the money which makes it harder for them to steal it,”..........oh so the business leaders do a honest job?

Here is some history about how business conducts itself:

But there was another disturbing theme in the Black business plan in Toronto — taking money from the workers to fatten up his company. The Dominion, Canada’s biggest supermarket chain, was part of the Argos Group, which Black took over in the late 1970s. Brad Gaull, a union storeman at Dominion, discovered that Black had quietly rewritten the rules governing the Dominion workers’ pension fund. “The [company] President in his annual report mentioned that the company could not in any way use the pension funds for anything but employees’ benefits,” said Gaull. “Now this is 1983. Black had already changed the terms in seventy-nine. He didn’t even tell his own president.”

Citing his new terms, Black reclaimed $62 million of surplus cash from the pension fund. The workers sued and the judge forced him to pay back half the money. The affair was Black’s first brush with the courts

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“.....Did you see now, where the U.S. auto makers are asking for a goverment ‘bailout’ (as much as $50 BILLION)?  Employee ‘legacy payments’ are draining the companies dry!!"~Bob(RDS)

You must be against the money that government (at different levels) pays Walmart to set up shop in a community?

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Exactly, Alex, the rhetoric never matches the reality.

Alex,

“You must be against the money that government (at different levels) pays Walmart to set up shop in a community?”

Actually, I am, as long as the policy is ‘across the board”!!  See, I blame the system that allows those things to happen, not the ones who use the system!!  I believe that if you don’t like the way things are done, you should work to change the system, not just cry because people are actually using the system as it was set up!!

“oh so the business leaders do a honest job?”

No, the only one you can really count on to care for your retirement money, is yourself, thus IRA’s and 401K’s!!

See, I blame the system that allows those things to happen, not the ones who use the system!!  I believe that if you don’t like the way things are done, you should work to change the system, not just cry because people are actually using the system as it was set up!!~Bob(RDS)

Sorry Bob...I thought that you wrote “.....Did you see now, where the U.S. auto makers are asking for a goverment ‘bailout’ (as much as $50 BILLION)?  Employee ‘legacy payments’ are draining the companies dry!!"~Bob(RDS)

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Alex,

“Sorry Bob...I thought that you wrote “.....Did you see now, where the U.S. auto makers are asking for a goverment ‘bailout’ (as much as $50 BILLION)?  Employee ‘legacy payments’ are draining the companies dry!!"~Bob(RDS)"

Yeah, I did, so what’s your point?  I’m against the ‘bailout’, just as much as I would be against a ‘bailout’ of Wal-Mart if it were failing!!  If a company can’t make it on their own, they deserve to either sell out, go out of business or merge with another company!!  That’s called ‘capitalism’!!

So when a company expects incentives so that they will locate in a community, would that not be an early form of ‘bailout’ ?
Giving tax breaks or widening roads etc. from the tax payers money would not be a form of ‘capitalism’?
Companies like Walmart have no problem taking taxpayers money? How is that really and different?
I am sure your Libertarians (as you folks call them) are outraged when a company asks for government money whether before good times or after, is that not right?

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Alex,

“So when a company expects incentives so that they will locate in a community, would that not be an early form of ‘bailout’ ?”

No, it an ‘incentive’, much the same as a company giving a “bonus” for meeting production goals or a car dealer ‘paying sales tax’ or giving a ‘rebate’ on a purchase!!

“Giving tax breaks or widening roads etc. from the tax payers money would not be a form of ‘capitalism’?”

Yes it would!!  Much the same as a ‘supplier’, using stockeholders profit money to give a buyer a better price, to obtain a better display location within stores!!

“Companies like Walmart have no problem taking taxpayers money? How is that really and different?”

Because this is an ‘incentive’ available to any business that meets qualifications for the ‘break’!!  Bailouts on the other hand aren’t NORMAL procedure!!  Incentives are given in the expectation of a return on investment, ‘bailouts’ are based on the fact that the business is failing and the money probably will be lost!!  Chrysler was ‘bailed out’ once, but, now they are back for more!!

“I am sure your Libertarians (as you folks call them) are outraged when a company asks for government money whether before good times or after, is that not right?”

Right, but we didn’t make the rules, the Democrats and Republicans did!!  We believe the governments have NO right using taxpayer money to manipulate business!!  But, when Federal, State or Local governments make ‘tax law’, everybody has the right to use all of the provisions set in that law!!  If citizens don’t like the way the ‘tax laws’ are written, they have the power of the ‘vote’, to remove the officials who wrote the laws and put in people who will change the laws more to their liking!!

Tell us, how do taxpayers in your contry feel about using their tax money to support the Royal Family?

Tell us, how do taxpayers in your contry feel about using their tax money to support the Royal Family?~RDS(Bob)

Good question Bob. I was fairly sure that we do not support the Royal Family but we do have what is called a Governer General (who is Canadian citizen).
I copied this from Wikipedia:

[edit] Finance
The sovereign only draws from Canadian coffers for support in the performance of her duties when in Canada or acting as Queen of Canada abroad; Canadians do not pay any money to the Queen, either towards personal income or to support royal residences outside of Canada. This applies equally to other members of the Royal Family.[16] Normally, tax dollars pay only for the costs associated with the Governor General and ten Lieutenant Governors in the exercise of the powers of the Crown, including travel, security, residences, offices, ceremonies, and the like.[16]

The provincial and federal governments keep records of expenditures associated with the Crown, but no official report on the full cost of the monarchy is compiled. Every three years, the Monarchist League of Canada issues a survey, based on the various federal and provincial budgets, expenditures and estimates, that outlines a yearly cost for the functioning of the Crown. The 2005 survey found that the institution cost Canadians roughly $49 million in 2004.[17] Previous surveys found that the overall cost of the Canadian Crown was $22 million in 1999,[18] and $34 million in 2002.[16][19] (This does not take into account the inflation of the Canadian Dollar over these years.)

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“If citizens don’t like the way the ‘tax laws’ are written, they have the power of the ‘vote’, to remove the officials who wrote the laws and put in people who will change the laws more to their liking!!"~Bob(RDS)

So who is representing the so called ‘Libertarians’ in your upcoming elections? Is there only two choices in your country? You can only vote Republican or Democratic?
Not a lot of choice.

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RDS, your argument wreaks of hypocricy and actually illustrates the absurdity of the “libertarian” argument.  Big corporations will do whatever they can if they can get away with it - which is why they have to be regulated.  Also, even if these privelages for corporations didn’t exist they would just eventually buy them.

Alex, depressingly, this is the case.  This isn’t TECHNICALLY the case but there are so many roadblocks in place to voting for a third party (let alone the case that barely anyone even knows about them - Americans are pretty brainwashed and unaware - even though we shouldn’t be).  Your Parliamentary system allows other parties to at least have representation and put pressure on the Liberals and Conservatives.

Generic,

“RDS, your argument wreaks of hypocricy and actually illustrates the absurdity of the “libertarian” argument.”

Exactly which parts are you referring to?

“Big corporations will do whatever they can if they can get away with it - which is why they have to be regulated.”

I don’t see anywhere, where anybody has said that companies should have NO regulation!!

“Also, even if these privelages for corporations didn’t exist they would just eventually buy them.”

Exactly how does a company “BUY” a ‘tax break’, etc., unless it is a through a ‘bribe’, which is ‘illegal’!!

“Exactly how does a company “BUY” a ‘tax break’, etc....” ~RDS

There can’t be many people that are more dense than you, RDS.  Is it just an act you try to perfect, or are you really that naïve?

On a lighter note, I’m glad we didn’t have to wait too long to see how SNL would treat Sarah Palin.  Thanks to Tina Fay’s dead-on impersonation, we all know.  With all of the good material Palin provides, there’s bound to be more of that to come!

Screwedby,

“There can’t be many people that are more dense than you, RDS.  Is it just an act you try to perfect, or are you really that naïve?”

Nice answer to the question!!  If you can’t answer it, at least refrain from calling people names, that just makes you seem dense and naive!!

I’ll ask you again, How do you BUY a ‘tax break’ without it being a ‘bribe’?

In a Nutshell

Answer:  You can’t.  If it looks like a duck, waddles like a duck, and quacks like a duck.... IT’S A DUCK!”

I’d use the phrase..."If you put lipstick....” But there’s too much talk about that lately.  Have you ever heard of a lobbyist, RDS?

Isn’t America great?  One dollar.  One vote.

“Have you ever heard of a lobbyist, RDS?”

Yeah, isn’t that one of those people that the unions use to try to get their ‘card check’ proposal passed in Congress?

Yeah....You’re Right, Asshole!

Isn’t our system of government great?

“Isn’t our system of government great?”

It was once, back in the days when polititians cared more about the country, than they did about the next election, and tried to work together to come up with fair compromises!!  Remember people like William Proxmire and his ‘Golden Fleece’ Awards, exposing ‘pork barrel’ excessive spending?

As Bugs Bunny would say “ WHAT A bunch of maroons!!!”.
Let’s see here now…
We’ve got Matt who is to blogs what a skipping record is to music.
We’ve got RDS, which initials stand for… What the heck, fill in the blanks! Apparently he is superior to everybody else. RDS has pulled himself up by his bootstraps to the point that his balls look like earrings.
Then we’ve got something called “educated mothers for Wal*Mart”, which they need because apparently they are in such short supply.
Then we have a cast of charaters who come and go with all kinds of pro Wal*Mart gibberish.
And if that were not enough Wal*Mart is running a saturation advertising campaign, that smacks of desperation and interupts my favorite music on the radio and TV shows!
What is there to like about Wal*Mart that you can’t get at ton’s of other places? And quite honestly, judging from the pro Wal*Mart “MAROONS” (damn I luv Bugs) Only mindless idiots support the place.

So my pro Wal*Mart board buddies, why don’t you run off and check out the latest “roll backs”. Your arguments are tripe.

Oh, and Larry do yourself a favor and vote the way Ike would have wanted.

I know this posted elsewhere, but it just seems so appropriate in so many threads here.

Precisely!

It’s precisely people like Theodore Roosevelt, Robert M. LaFollette, and Sen. William Proxmire who would have a hard time dealing with all the crap you keep peddling about “free trade,” “the global economy,” “unregulated profits,” and a laizez faire attitude toward “Big Business.”

RDS, go back and read what you typed.  It doesn’t matter if the Democrats and Republicans came up with these rules or not, and this illustrates my point of “we can so we will”.  If corporations can dump poison in the water with no consequences (because of no regulation) than they will (with some limited exceptions).  Also, do you really think that corporations will abide by the same rules as a small mom and pop store?

Well, Libertarians feel that business should have no regulation because it’s big government getting in the way of the free market.  If there is to be any regulation than it’s so minimal as to be ineffective - obviously you don’t want excessive regulation but let’s be realistic here.  If you think that this wouldn’t be a disaster in the real world than you are living in a fantasy one so it doesn’t really matter.  Businesses have an inalienable right to do whatever they see fit in their day to day operation just like I have an inalienable right to free speech.  I assume that you are some sort of Libertarian because you said “we didn’t make the rules”.

I don’t know, like Screwedby pointed out are you that naive?!  Wealth = power and those that have wealth will use that wealth to maintain that power - whether through official or unofficial channels - especially when there is no “big government” to protect the interests of the weak and vulnerable in society (although that’s their fault for being that way because they chose it - they should have chosen to be in the other camp).

PARIS — Is the United States no longer the global beacon of unfettered, free-market capitalism?

In extending a last-minute $85 billion lifeline to A.I.G., the troubled insurer, Washington has not only turned away from decades of rhetoric about the virtues of the free market and the dangers of government intervention, it has also likely undercut future American efforts to promote such policies abroad.

“I fear the government has passed the point of no return,” said Ron Chernow, a leading American financial historian. “We have the irony of a free-market administration doing things that the most liberal Democratic administration would never have been doing in its wildest dreams.”

So, now you are bashing on RDS because you’re ex-military, and he’s not?

Yup. I don’t like chicken hawks, never have. All about personal responsibility as long as it’s the other guy doing the bleeding.

Every free breath RDS (and probably you, bb) takes is owed to those that could and did serve their country. Enjoy your free ride.

Best put a zip on it while you’re ahead, Kenbo…

You certainly are a slow learner, bb. I’m always ahead.

“I had other priorities” ~ Dick Cheney (5 deferments)

“Yup. I don’t like chicken hawks, never have.”

Then, why do you side with Screwedby all the time, he was ready to run to Canada, I just didn’t get drafted?  Besides, wasn’t Viet Nam a big mistake?

“All about personal responsibility as long as it’s the other guy doing the bleeding.”

It is your side that says ‘personal responsibility’ is a Wacko concept!!  Besides, many people in the military were stationed in places like Germany and Korea, etc., they didn’t do any ‘bleeding’!!  Fact is, I have a lot of respect for the people who helped give me the freedom I enjoy (unlike Screwedby) and my brother served in Viet Nam and my cousin was killed there!!

Besides, wasn’t Viet Nam a big mistake?

Tell that to the 60,000 on the Wall.

It is your side...

I don’t speak for any ‘side’ but my own. By your own admission you didn’t get drafted because you are disabled. You right wing wachos have never been able to separate support for our troops even if they are fighting another needless war.

Speaking of war, I need to update the list of countries McCain/Palin want to fight:

1. Spain

2. Yemen

...my cousin was killed there!!

There but for the grace of God…

Ken V,

“By your own admission you didn’t get drafted because you are disabled.”

How many times do I have to state this, I am not, nor have ever been DISABLED, that is something Screwedby MADE UP, when I said I had not joined the service!!  I just wasn’t drafted, and my number wasn’t hit during the lottery draft!!

What suprises me, is you have made NO negative comments about Screwedby, even though he ADMITS HE did not serve and was ready to run to Canada and ‘probably’ was calling the military returning from Nam, ‘baby killers’ and spitting on them!!  Also, he berates people who fly the flag as ‘those stupid flag wavers’, he probably even burns the flag on the 4th, along with his CD’s in protest!!  He probably even thinks ‘Hanoi’ Jane Fonda was a hero!!

I doubt anyone has scrolled through all that spam to get here but just in case you did, I would like to return to the subject of the early comments. When it comes to all this right wing, free market capitalism garbage enough! Bush and the Republicans have made socialists of us all.

In fact, I think we should consider changing tha name of this country from USA to USSA: United Socialist States of America

It turns out the only strong ‘fundamental’

Ooops....

...the only strong ‘fundamental’ of this whole lousy economy is labor. Your capital ain’t worth squat.

If there has been one uninterrupted trend of the past century, it has been the steady socialization of risk—especially financial risk. ~ WSJ

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