Wal-Mart could see increased pressure to spin off Sam’s Club amidst earnings woes - analysis

People who talk about spin-offs as the new salvation of stock price are sheep. Wal-Mart is a mature company. This means that their US Wal-Mart Stores division sales and profits will most likely not grow at double digits going forward. However, Sam’s Club, Neighborhood Market and the International division still have huge growth potential. Wal-Mart is not a hot growth company thus they do not have have a hot growth stock. Why would Wal-Mart want to get rid of Sam’s, which is churning out the profits? Look at what originally happened to AT&T;. They bought everything in sight, then they divested everything but their long distance before selling themselves to a Baby Bell, a former subsidiary of AT&T;before its breakup in 1984.

I always laugh when reporters who have never done anything except write stories try and tell a very successful multi-billion dollar corporation how to conduct its business. And I am so sick of this obsession with short term stock price. Stock price has no direct relation to underlying value. It has quite a bit to do with speculators. Stockbrokers and investment bankers make a living off trading and pushing stocks. They are responsible for this mentality that the be all/end all of a company is its stock price. We are now seeing a lot of private equity flood the market and take companies private in order to run the business free of stock price pressure. After 5-7 years, the private equity firms will sell the business to another firm or issue stock based on the now higher value of the business. Private equity is a way for companies to improve their fundamentals away from the glare of the do nothing Wall Street crowd.

My prediction? Wal-Mart keeps Sam’s and uses the cash flow to improve profitability, buy back stock, increase dividends and cut debt.

Just my thoughts............

I thought this website was about bad things walmart is up to.
Who could give a darn about how they operate.

I hope Walmart doesn’t fall apart.  That means this website will be called Target Watch.

I like Target, and I hate Walmart mainly because it is run by southern hillbillies.

Shop at Target.  It is based in a blue state.

Please be patient, but it is worth it

Sam’s Club PD-57 was NOT adhere to by Club Manager Fidel Jacobo and Membership Manager Esperanza Lopez.  No documentation of any complaints and the San Fernando Police Department or the Los Angeles Police Department ever showed for a “Work Place Violence.” Please show proof since one complaint and one video tape does NOT establish a workplace violence.  Neither Mr Jacobo or Ms Lopez wanted to sign the papers of any meeting between two managers and Max Rafael Waller for Legal Documentation. No meetings to address any potentail problems at the Tire and Battery Center were brought up by the Team Lead or Management.

How it life started to really go down hill

December 2006 Mehmet Ekinci {A Hatchet Man and sent to “clean House” is no longer there but in Fresno according to Mr Jason Fastner} said that he was replacing everyone in the tire shop or its proper title: Tire and Battery Center according to Jeff Lopez{no longer works there} and Mark Castro{has recanted}and Bill Lang heard indirectly but will deny it. Max Rafael Waller studied all of Wal-Mart policies and found that if that his remark {INTIMIDATION} could be verified then he would get a coaching for making such a remark. The others are scared to tell the truth.

Sam’s Club GROSSLY violates the Global Ethics Compliance that Wal-Mart Stores, Inc claims to uphold. 
Fidel Jacobo has received a lot of Anti-Union training

Sam’s Club 6625 did the following tactic as of Wednesday, 4 April 2007 with the participation of members.  One African-American tried to talk about the union, but Max’s reply “You started inserting the talk about the union and so you want to find out what is going on in my head. You wearing clothes so raggedy that your testicles are showing. If you were FBI you would be in trouble for indecent exposure.” He left.

Wal-Mart Stores, Inc will protect their Public Relations and Image AT ANY COST INCLUDING MAKING A PACT Loyal Customers, “grateful” associates, and their vendors and suppliers.

Members where to complain to get Max Rafael Waller and Sam’s Club 6625 management would had an easy time had him fired for inferior member service.

Mr. Fastener and Mr. Lang were also giving the amount of money lost on the Profit and Loss so the if their conversation would be on the internet. They were hoping for the amount to have been stated, but the fact that the conversation was written was enough to know that he wrote at MySpace.

The secret for Wal-Mart not getting caught using tactics, fear and intimidation, is simple: a lot of unwritten rules so there is no evidence. A lot of non-managers associates will respond by saying they see or know nothing of improper treatment. They will also have selective memory.

Sam’s Club 6625 Associates are possibly spreading misinformation in the San Fernando Valley especially in Pacoima. 
One of the is possibly a Check Out Supervisor, COS, Jay with a woman at a cell phone store in Pacoima on Foothill Blvd between Pierce St and Terra Bella St. and this came from a relative of Max.

“Blue Horseshoe hates WalMart”

In fact, Costco has outperformed Wal-Mart on the stock market over the last five years. The real reason for the difference in compensation and benefits is that Costco employees have much lower turnover, better interaction with customers and are more productive than Wal-Mart’s workers.
For example, Costco Wholesale pays its workers $17 an hour on average, while its competitor, Wal-Mart’s Sam’s Club, pays only $10 an hour on average

James O’Toole and Edward E. Lawler III are professors at the University of Southern California’s Marshall School of Business and authors of The New American Workplace (Palgrave-MacMillan, 2006).
James O’Toole and Edward E. Lawler III 04.25.07, 6:00 AM ET
http://www.forbes.com/2007/04/24/corporate-layoffs-costs-oped-cx_jot_0425jobs

Ahead of the Bell: Costco Wholesale
April 17, 2007 7:48 AM ET
NEW YORK (AP)

After combing Costco’s books and adjusting for his new estimates, Kaiser raised his price target on Costco’s stock to $65 from $56. The new price target is about 19 percent higher than the retailer’s stock’s close at $54.40 on the Nasdaq Stock Market Monday.
Kaiser upgraded shares of Costco, which earned $1.1 billion last year on $60.2 billion sales, to “Outperform” from “Market Perform.”
http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/provider/providerarticle.aspx?feed=AP&Date=20070417&ID=6756370

“Look at Costco Wholesale (COST, news, msgs), says Hodgson. The retailer’s stock is up 60% in the past two years."(from 2005)

<http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/P110762.asp>

““Given Costco’s performance, the question for Wall Street shouldn’t be why Costco isn’t more like Wal-Mart. Rather, why can’t Wal-Mart deliver high shareholder returns and high living standards for its workforce? Says Costco CEO James D. Sinegal: “Paying your employees well is not only the right thing to do but it makes for good business.”

Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example. Mark Twain, Pudd’nhead Wilson (1894)

I worked for Sams Club twice. Everyone knew that it
would not survive if not carried by WMT.  If Sams were a free standing company it would fold in a yr.

Bentonville does all the behind the scenes operations for Sams and just absorbs it as part of WMT. Here in the great NW, where Costco was started, there are only two Sams in WA state and those were aquired as part of a buyout in 93.
Costco goes into the South and takes Biz from Sams and
BJ’s.  And pays well.

Sam’s Club is becoming unbearable to work for.  I know many men and women of all different ranks within the company that have either left, or are looking.  Retail talent is hard to find and the company doesn’t realize that they are losing good people for silly reasons.  They have changed the way that managers are paid in a very negative way.  It is good for low volume club managers.  But not so good for assistants, or higher volume club managers.  They are very focussed on expense control, yet they added the worthless position of market human resource manager.  That makes no sense.  If the market managers and club managers cannot perform those functions, they shouldn’t be in their positions.  The company is so scared of being sued by hourly associates that they are mistreating management.  It is insane to work for a company that uses fear and intimidation to “motivate” its managers.  Most all of the mhrm’s are from outside the company and don’t know anything about the culture.  Probably the biggest waste of money that I have seen in my 20 years.  My advice to anyone working in management is to not let your quality of life suffer another day for a company that doesn’t care about you, or your contributions.

...the do nothing Wall Street crowd.

Those with long memories (pre-2000) can recall when Wal-Mart was the darling of this same do nothing Wall Street crowd. 

Question: How many times has WMT split under the leadership of Lee Scott?

Answer: Zero!*

*WMT’s last split(2:1) occurred April 20, 1999.

It would be interesting if they split and became two instead of one. Then we would have true figures of Wal-Mart.

It has not been in the news but a few Sam’s has already closed

This is a test of your system.

A manager threw a dart, which by chance, lodged in my neck while looking Izod shorts at Sam’s last week in San Antonio.

I am sure this is not an isolated incident.

SDV

I am sure that dancers at Scores earn much more than dancers at some local truck stop strip club. But if the local girls are earning $300 per night vs. $500 at Scores, are they really worse off?

My point is, it really doesn’t matter what one company pays vs. another company. If Company A pays $20 per hour and Company B pays $8 per hour, and Company B has no trouble finding qualified applicants, why would Company B pay $20 per hour?

And this site is Wal-Mart Watch not Costco Cheering Section. If you hate Wal-Mart, don’t shop or work there. If you like Costco, shop there or get a job there. We live in a free country. But you have ZERO right to tell others where they will or will not work or shop. NO RIGHT. And you have no right to force workers to join your corrupt union. Because that is what this is really about, isn’t it?

Why won’t you cowards admit that the ONE AND ONLY REASON for these smear sites is to pressure Wal-Mart into forcing its employees to join a union that has been unable to convince the employees to join the UFCW through the democratic union process?

“Why won’t you cowards admit that the ONE AND ONLY REASON for these smear sites is to pressure Wal-Mart into forcing its employees to join a union that has been unable to convince the employees to join the UFCW through the democratic union process?” [Nick]

Why don’t you admit tht employees joined a union through a democratic union process and your cowardly Walmart smeared the employee’s buy putting pressure on them not to join when they closed the store in Jonquiere Quebec?

Cut the BS Nick.

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse
We will never forget what you did Walmart.
Never.

OK

1 Form union in store. 
2. Union costs make business unaffordable. 
3 Store must close because it would be unprofitable.

We’ll that was easy.

btw, form union so that dues will be collected from the membership in order to stuff the coffers of UFCW

Why won’t you cowards admit...

Will someone please loan Nick their copy of How to Win Friends and Influence People?

2. Union costs make business unaffordable.

That’s the weak link in your argument, Mary.

Ken

Actually, I have read that book. It is useless for dealing with people like yourself, people lacking in logic, humility, reason or common sense.

You claim that Mary’s “weak link” is her claim that union costs make business unaffordable. Well, all the available evidence supports her claim. Union membership is at an all-time low in this country. Less than 8% of private sector employees belong to a union, despite the fact that this economy has record employment and a record number of available jobs. This means that many former union workers are now working in non-union jobs! Right to work states are getting all the new factories, ie. Thyssen Krupp’s $4 billion steel plant in Alabama, SteelCorr in Mississippi, Hyundai in Alabama and Toyota, Honda & Nissan as well. UAW workers are losing tens of thousands of jobs per year and GM and Ford have offered buyouts to ALL of their US employees. This means they believe they can compete with a US workforce. Meanwhile, Toyota and Honda employ more than 25,000 Americans thus far in high paying factory jobs.

Why did Kroger, Safeway and Albertson’s tolerate a grocery strike by the UFCW in California a few years back? Because they told the UFCW that their costs were too high and they couldn’t compete with Wal-Mart. The union got mad and went on strike. They later came back on the company’s terms after losing millions of dollars. Of course, the companies closed quite a few stores and cost many UFCW members their jobs. How did that UFCW effort turn out?

The point is, Ken, that unions are being decertified in record numbers and this recent effort by the unions to do away with a secret ballot is a desperate cry for help. They know they can’t win a fair secret ballot election. How does the secret ballot benefit the employer? It doesn’t. The NLRB oversees this election process. Employees have more protection from the employer when they use the secret ballot. Card check is an easy way to bully employees into joining a union they would otherwise vote against in the secret ballot. The unions are desperate. They are obviously not interested in protecting their workers. And they haven’t done such a good job at it. Look at the thousands of UFCW employees and the tens of thousands of UAW employees who are now jobless.

Mary is absolutely correct. All evidence supports her statements. FACT. LOGIC. REASON. EVIDENCE. COMMON SENSE. These are more than just words. They are your study guide for intelligent debate.

My argument still stands even though I find myself inadvertantly defending the unions again.

What “union costs” is Mary referring to? As you constantly point out, Nick, the union is supported by the dues of it’s members, not from Wal-Mart or any other unionized company.

The “cost” to Wal-Mart would be paying a wage acceptable to collective bargainers.  Scary thought, huh?

KenV,
Indirectly, unions are ALSO funded by consumers, who have to pay more for stuff at union stores. The costs get shifted to the consumers - why do you think myself and millions of others don’t want to see unions take over Walmart?? It would mean higher prices for us.

“What “union costs” is Mary referring to?” and “My argument still stands”.

Are you kidding me?  Ken, you are either playing dumb (and I don’t think you are dumb) or just incredulous to the facts.  And in this case it’s the facts that Nick very clearly laid out.  Take a very hard look at the big 3 and the UAW and tell me that the high salaries and expensive benefits enjoyed by the UAW workers have not priced Ford, GM and Chrysler out of the car market?

For every union and every union member that demands higher wages and benefits it is the consumer who ultimatly pays that price.  There is a fine line when the consumer will just say NO to price increases and look for alternatives.  It’s the union membership that will suffer in the end with the lost of jobs.  The UAW has this written all over it.

What really happened-

In the 1960s , the UAW used its strategy of negotiating a contract with one major auto maker and applying it to others to secure a number of new benefits for auto workers, including fully paid hospitalization and sick leave benefits at General Motors and profit sharing in American Motors . The UAW also grew to include workers in other major industries such as the aerospace and agricultural-implement industries.

During this time, UAW members became one of the best paid groups of industrial workers in the country — many buying second homes in the country, boats, and earning enough to move to the suburbs and send their children to college. However, by the end of this period, changes in the global economy and competition from European and Japanese automobile makers had already started to significantly reduce the profits of the major auto makers and set the stage for the drastic changes in the 1970s.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Auto_Workers

Imports- Global Labor Arbitrage- Trade agreements shipping American high skill and high paying jobs overseas.
Remember when GM owned 25% of Toyota? Or when the other U.S. auto makers went into business with the Japanese?

Mary’s version- Betray America’s workforce for money and shareholder value, drop any ‘protection’ of the American economy from imports, rake off the profit differentials from labor arbitrage, have billionaire executives scream about health care costs and then blame the unions for everything!

WalMart- Propaganda and image frauds from our ‘war room’ rewriting history clowns. This is where your shareholder value is going these days.

Nice try SDV, but your arguement fails to pass muster with the UAW.  It seems that those “highly skilled” auto manufacturing jobs under UAW control are being lost not to overseas but right here in this country by non-UAW producers such as Toyota and Honda.  And I’ll say it again… price your self out of the market and you will soon be OUT of the market.

I know it’s gospel for neo-capitalists to blame the decline of the U.S. auto industry on unions and labor in general but the fact remains arrogant incompetent management led to it’s downfall.

The incredible advances in automotive technology that have come about since U.S. automakers lost dominance is only one indication why the era of GM is over. The big three got fat and lazy and believed consumers would buy whatever they had for sale.

Granted, one of the penalties of gross mismanagement is that costs, including labor, become unbearable. The demise of the U.S. auto industry is merely market forces at work.

I agree with San Diego View about what went down in Detroit. I remember not long ago when the Japanese were having fits over the Koreans and now the Chinese are ground zero with 35 cent per hour labor. Destroy any industry with cheap labor like that. Markets forces that became more and more international. The unions did not do that, the politicians opened up trade pressures did the NAFTA thing and let all the imports in. Did not protect our econonmy and capitulated to the international corporate arena and wasted our auto industry with cheap labor from Asia. Protectionism is not a dirty word. Now the foreign car and truck makers are coming here. Mary is making the same point she denies!

WHOA! Back the Train Up For a Second

First Nick says:

“I always laugh when reporters who have never done anything except write stories try and tell a very successful multi-billion dollar corporation how to conduct its business.”

Later Nick says this about Ken V:

“...people like yourself, people lacking in logic, humility, reason or common sense.”

Thank you for another good laugh...you never disappoint me!  Tell us all about that “very successful multi-billion dollar corporation” you are running.

Lastly, regarding your prediction: “ My prediction? Wal-Mart keeps Sam’s and uses the cash flow to improve profitability, buy back stock, increase dividends and cut debt.” You are humble and credible because...??

SDV,

“In the 1960s , the UAW used its strategy of negotiating a contract with one major auto maker and applying it to others to secure a number of new benefits for auto workers, including fully paid hospitalization and sick leave benefits at General Motors and profit sharing in American Motors .”

And, just how are things going at American Motors now?  The problem there, was that ‘negotiating a contract and applying it to ALL that auto manufacturers’, it worked for the big 3, but, killed the small American Motors.  Chrysler bought out American Motors and was finally bailed out by the government, later partnered with Daimler and is now in trouble again.

Ken V,

“I know it’s gospel for neo-capitalists to blame the decline of the U.S. auto industry on unions and labor in general but the fact remains arrogant incompetent management led to it’s downfall.”

Funny, but the common denominator with ALL the U.S. car companies, was the UAW, yet, you claim that it was the managements at ALL the companies that were their downfall.  What did all those managements have in common, that caused them ALL to be incompetent?  So much so, that the Japanese came in and rolled over them ALL!!  Not one single company had management competent enough, to see what was happening and compete, right?

Doug,

“The unions did not do that, the politicians opened up trade pressures did the NAFTA thing and let all the imports in.”

I believe that auto imports started way before NAFTA, along with many other imports.  The unions did not allow companies to adjust wages to compete with imports, therefore, companies had to develop technologies to increase production efficencies, which lead to reduced labor forces, which resulted in demands for higher wages and benefits by the unions!!

That One is Easy...Care to Try Again, Bob?

Anyone reading this blog for any length of time, knows you are one of the biggest A-Hole detractors when it comes to unions.  Your post yesterday was just the latest example.

Did you really expect your question to Ken V would stump people:  “What did all those managements have in common, that caused them ALL to be incompetent?” In two words-- GREED and ARROGANCE.

You really shouldn’t be asking where is American Motors today… the question is, “Where are the top leaders in companies like Enron, Tyco, World Com...and the list goes on!

How come you never talk about the multi-million dollar compensation packages these grossly over-paid top executives always seem to secure for themselves along with the “Golden Parachutes” they deploy when a company gets in trouble or is losing money.  Screw all the workers they leave behind, be they union or non-union.  Every man for himself---Right?

Once again, you claim to have read Sam Walton’s Autobiography, but you obviously skipped the part where he said he would have welcomed the opportunity to take a union company and make it work for everyone.

Turn off your selective perception Bob and get your head out of your butt for once.

Screwedby,

“Anyone reading this blog for any length of time, knows you are one of the biggest A-Hole detractors when it comes to unions.”

Truth is, I have respect for many unions, the ones that nogotiate good contracts for both their members and the companies they work for.  But, unions like the AFL-CIO, UAW, UFCW, SEIU, etc., are unions that push nogotiations beyond the limits, which in the end, hurt the companies and the workers as well!!

“ “What did all those managements have in common, that caused them ALL to be incompetent?” In two words-- GREED and ARROGANCE.”

So, GREED and ARROGANCE have been the basis of company managements since the 60’s and 70’s, right?  Did you work for American Motors?  I didn’t work there, but as a truck driver for a Kenosha based company, I hauled into the plants everyday and I could tell you stories about how the union corrupted the members to the point, that they would threaten to walk off the job if they didn’t get their way over almost anything!!  Also, American Motors workers always held off on contracts until after Ford & GM settled their contracts and then AMC workers would ask for MORE and AMC would have to sign on or face a crippling STRIKE!!

“Where are the top leaders in companies like Enron, Tyco, World Com...and the list goes on!”

Yes, where are those guys?  Perhaps in PRISON!!  Where is Jimmy Hoffa, Teamsters President?  They still haven’t found him!!  What about the Teamsters Pension Fund, was any GREED and ARROGANCE involved there?

“How come you never talk about the multi-million dollar compensation packages these grossly over-paid top executives always seem to secure for themselves along with the “Golden Parachutes” they deploy when a company gets in trouble or is losing money.  Screw all the workers they leave behind, be they union or non-union.  Every man for himself---Right?”

I do talk about CEO compensation packages, but, you notice that they are obtained without a union behind the person getting them, they get those packages based on their ability upon hiring, which any worker can do, if they build their skills to a point that people notice them as being good enough to run a multi-billion dollar company.  And, whether you want to admit it or not, it is harder to RUN a company, that it is to clean up a spill on aisle 9!!  Besides, they get paid based on what their bosses are willing to pay them!!

“Once again, you claim to have read Sam Walton’s Autobiography, but you obviously skipped the part where he said he would have welcomed the opportunity to take a union company and make it work for everyone.”

I think you need to read that part again, Sam dealt with unions and rejected them at every turn, he was just saying that if he was forced to nogotiate with a union, he wouldn’t let them get the best of him!!

Like I said, Bob, You Suffer From Selective Perception!

What’s with you anyway?  Do you always have to SPIN things so they fit into your warped and cockeyed little universe?

I don’t remember reading anything about Sam Walton worrying about being “forced” to negotiate with a union.  To use your buddy Nick’s favorite phrase these days--- what were the unions going to do, “hold a gun” to Sam’s head?

Page 255, Chapter- “Wanting to Leave a Legacy,” in Sam Walton’s Made in America states:

“...I’d love to have the fun of trying to take a unionized company today and sell its people on the idea of having to be competitive globally--whether it was in autos, or steel, or electronics.  I’d love a chance at that, the pleasure of seeing if they could be motivated into a team that would share in all the company’s success--and still have a union. But if American management is going to say to their workers that we’re all in this together, they’re going to have to stop this foolishness of paying themselves $3 million and $4 million bonuses every year and riding around everywhere in limos and corporate jets like they’re so much better than everybody else.”

It doesn’t get any clearer than that.  But I had to add bold to certain words so that even YOU will understand, Bob!

Not one single company had management competent enough, to see what was happening and compete, right?

I’d say Lee Iacocca came as close as anyone.

Ken

Lee Iacocca is an overrated, arrogant, self-centered windbag. Where would Chrysler be today without taxpayer loans? OUT OF BUSINESS. Here is the Lee Iacoccs blueprint for success.

1. Get a taxpayer loan to bailout a bad company and keep excess capacity in the market.

2. Pretend to get tough with the UAW, while allowing for huge increases in wages and benefits and a crippling pension agreement.

3. Pay thousands of displaced workers full wages and benefits each year for.............who knows? Just pay them to do nothing.

4. Hire creative people who designed other great cars and develop the K-Car, the minivan, the LeBaron covertible, etc. and turn your losses into profits. Quickly take all the credit and stick it to the talent.

5. Appear in commercials for your product not as a marketing tool but to satisfy your own ego and convince naive Americans that you were the real brains behind the whole deal.

6. Bloat the company with ridiculous purchases (real estate, corporate jets, Lambourghini, etc.)

7. Turn into another highly paid, mediocre CEO and bully YOUR board of directors into letting you hang on to the post far longer than you deserved.

8. Retire. Make speeches, give interviews and write a book about how everything they’re doing today is wrong and how they could use you to solve the world’s problems.

9. Blame corporate greed and CEO incompetence (I’ll agree with the incompetence part) but deny that UAW is a big factor in high costs and poor products.

10. Complain about currency manipulation, tariffs, trade agreements, etc. and blame them for Toyota’s succcess vs. GM, Ford or Chrysler. Deny Deny Deny as Toyota opens a plant next door to GM with workers from the same county, same taxes, same utility and raw materials costs, etc. and proceeds to cut GM’s throat.  Deny that Toyota is better at quality, reputation, production efficiencies, managing compensation and marketing.

There you have it, Lee Iacocca’s blueprint for success. You, too, can be worth $100 million and taking potshots at Japan while watching the car wars from the cheap seats.

I may be wrong, Nick, but it sounds to me you’re a little envious of Lee’s success.

...and turn your losses into profits.

That’s what it’s all about, isn’t it?

I Couldn’t Agree With You More, Ken!

I would even have agreed with Nick, if only he would have started his last rant with, “I [Nick] am an overrated, arrogant, self-centered windbag.”

Screwedby,

“what were the unions going to do, “hold a gun” to Sam’s head?”

In essense, isn’t that exactly what unions do?  They tell a company what they want and if the company doesn’t want to pay it, they shut them down (strike) until they cry ‘uncle’!!

“But I had to add bold to certain words so that even YOU will understand, Bob!”

Sure, you choose the words YOU want to highlight so it fits YOUR point.  How about these words, “and sell its people on the idea of having to be competitive globally”, do you really think that union employees care about being globally competitive?  Even non-union employees don’t care about that!!  Or, “if they could be motivated into a team that would share in all the company’s success--and still have a union.”, unionized employees care only about what goes in their pocket, not how successful the company is, proof of this, is that a company has to go into bankruptsy, before a union is willing to give concessions, just losing money is not enough for the union to alter a contract downwards.  All Sam was saying, was that he would love the opportunity to try to get a union and a company to work together, but, he knew it could never happen, that is why he never entered into that type of arrangement.  He could have easily convinced the employees to vote a union in, if he REALLY wanted to!!  Ask yourself, “Why didn’t he DO it, instead of just talking about it”?  Look at Ford and GM, they entered into an arrangement with the union, to put a union representative on the board of directors, but, both companies still ended up in financial trouble!!

It’s Late and I Don’t Have Time to Mince Words

I don’t have the time or the energy anymore tonight/this morning to debate with a lamo, Bob.  Your viewpoints concerning the “evils” of unions is well documented.

Just explain this lame brain:

You say unions “hold a gun” to a company’s head. “They tell a company what they want and if the company doesn’t want to pay it, they shut them down (strike) until they cry ‘uncle’!!”

Why would you not agree then that Wal-Mart “holds a gun” to the head of its suppliers anytime they deal with Wal-Mart? Again I refer you to the now infamous case of the former Rubbermaid Company as but one example.  Rubbermaid asked for a reasonable price increase from Wal-Mart.  Many other customers of Rubbermaid already agreed to take this price increase… NOT Wal-Mart.  Then to boot, Wal-Mart took shelf space away from Rubbermaid to really show them who was boss.

Wal-Mart tells its suppliers what they need to produce something for.  If a supplier says they can’t do it...guess what...Wal-Mart looks for another supplier who will whore themselves to get the business.  Since neither you nor I were there when Michael Dell had his conversations with Wal-Mart, it’s only speculation as to what Wal-Mart may have told him.  But I would have loved to be a fly on the wall to hear that conversation.  Wal-Mart loves to play one supplier against another and then sit back to watch the catfight.  They use the same tactic when they want to come into a new community...they pit one town or city against another.  Now how is this not “holding a gun” to someone’s head.

I know...I know...I can hear your lame answer already Bob… “free will” “free choice” blah, blah, blah.

Actually, my response has nothing to do with “free will” - it has to do with who benefits when walmart pits “one supplier against another” - the consumer.
I asked this on another board, and I ask it again: why does the benefit to the consumer get lost in all of this??? There’s certainly more consumers than WM workers in this country - why does your side consistently ignore the benefit to them??? Doesn’t that count for something??

Screwedby Wal-Mart,

Or could it be that Wal-Mart was already selling HP and Gateway (e-machines) computers, and maybe, just maybe, Dell just wanted to get in the game, too?

Big W

Screwedby,

“Why would you not agree then that Wal-Mart “holds a gun” to the head of its suppliers anytime they deal with Wal-Mart?”

Here is the ‘big’ difference between the ‘union holding a gun’ and Wal-Mart ‘holding a gun’, ready?  A supplier can always say “No Thanks, I’ll take my business elsewhere”, but Wal-Mart cannot say to a union, “We don’t you representing our employees anymore”!!

“Again I refer you to the now infamous case of the former Rubbermaid Company as but one example.  Rubbermaid asked for a reasonable price increase from Wal-Mart.  Many other customers of Rubbermaid already agreed to take this price increase… NOT Wal-Mart.”

You keep rehashing that Rubbermaid story, trouble is, as you say, other customers agreed to the increase...NOT Wal-Mart, then Rubbermaid, should have said “Bye Bye” to Wal-Mart and sell only to those other customers.  Fact is: Rubbermaid products are NOW in Wal-Mart, but are made by Newell, Newell did what Rubbermaid couldn’t, I think that’s more of an indication of Rubbermaid’s poor management!!

“Wal-Mart loves to play one supplier against another and then sit back to watch the catfight.”

Isn’t that called COMPETITION?  Have you ever went to buy a car and went to one dealer, got a price quote and then went to another dealer and asked him to beat the other dealers price?  I think that’s known as being SMART!!

“They use the same tactic when they want to come into a new community...they pit one town or city against another.  Now how is this not “holding a gun” to someone’s head.”

At any point, either community could say “NO”, that’s how!!  Besides, listen to SDV, according to him, getting a Wal-Mart is a communities ‘worse nightmare’ and will cost the taxpayers a fortune.  What you are saying, is that the victim (town or city) of Wal-Mart, is begging to be fleeced (having subsidies taken from them), that’s like walking down the street and fighting with someone as to who is going to be lucky enough to get robbed by the mugger first!!  You can’t have it both ways, either Wal-Mart is ‘forcing’ it’s way into communities, or the communities are begging for the store to come in and willing to fight and PAY to get it!!

Bob, was this your best attempt to evade the subject of WalMart’s sucking down billions of dollars in subsidies and ‘dumping’ their ‘associates’ onto the unsuspecting taxpayers for health care and all the other corporate welfare.

Communities are saying no to WalMart from Maine to San Diego as they find out the cost to them of having a poverty creating WalMart corporate welfare model subsidize its way upon unsuspecting citizens and communities.

You like WalMart are in the propaganda and evasion business. You don’t want people to know about WalMart corporate theft from taxpayers and the huge subsidies concealed from the taxpayer suckers. Otherwise why don’t you just tell everyone what the state by state taxpayer funding is for the WalMart impoverishment model.

WalMart- Billions in concealed subsidies from the taxpayer suckers. Lee Scott and the Waltons thank you for contributing to your own poverty.

SDV,

“Bob, was this your best attempt to evade the subject of WalMart’s sucking down billions of dollars in subsidies and ‘dumping’ their ‘associates’ onto the unsuspecting taxpayers for health care and all the other corporate welfare.”

How can someone ‘Dump’ something it doesn’t have?  If I don’t have any trash, how can I ‘dump’ it in your yard?  Wal-Mart doesn’t have any healthcare responsibility, get it yet!!!

“Communities are saying no to WalMart from Maine to San Diego as they find out the cost to them of having a poverty creating WalMart corporate welfare model subsidize its way upon unsuspecting citizens and communities.”

And, as Ken V. said, the town down the road is fighting to get the store and is relieved when the other town gives it up.  And, those unsuspecting citizens shop at the store, save money and keep the store there. 

“You like WalMart are in the propaganda and evasion business. You don’t want people to know about WalMart corporate theft from taxpayers and the huge subsidies concealed from the taxpayer suckers.”

Funny that you should think that so many citizens and communities are STUPID, while YOU are so SMART!!

“Otherwise why don’t you just tell everyone what the state by state taxpayer funding is for the WalMart impoverishment model.”

I can’t tell people what I don’t believe to be true, that’s why!!  You are the one who buys into this “Every Wal-Mart employee is sleeping in their car in the parking lot”, B.S., not me!!

“You are the one who buys into this “Every Wal-Mart employee is sleeping in their car in the parking lot”…
Bob in
Wednesday, May 30 at 11:33 AM

Every Wal-Mart employee…

I never wrote that. However there are some. Typical lies and distortions from blogger frauds like you Bob. Fits with the basic pattern of concealment and misrepresentation from the ‘war room’ WalMart worship choir.

Even though you and WalMart lie about the details, why is it that they provide any kind of health care coverage at all under your and Nick’s Nigerian business philosophy?

WalMart- ‘living wage’? ‘family wage’? ‘health care’? We don’t understand. And we don’t want to either. We rather ‘dump’ our ‘associates’ onto the states for welfare because we are ‘love of money’ psychopaths. Let the taxpayers pick-up the bill. Sure it is embarrassing, but we have paid blogger frauds like Bob and Nick to lie for us.

SDV,

“Every Wal-Mart employee…

I never wrote that. However there are some.”

Okay, how many are SOME?  I guess if there were 2 out of 1.5 million, I would have to concede to your assessment, right?  But, then again, that’s how SPIN works, now doesn’t it?  You may not have said everyone, but, you implied that “All” Wal-Mart employees were being paid ‘poverty wages’ and not enough to pay their bills and therefore must not have a place to live and you mentioned many times that Wal-Mart employees were sleeping in their cars in the parking lot!!  I could make the statement that Wal-Mart ‘associates’ become millionaires, working for Wal-Mart and I would be ‘correct’, as some of Wal-Mart’s early ‘associates’ did become millionaires working at Wal-Mart, not all, but some!!  Spinning that fact, just the way you did the ‘sleeping in cars’ fact, would be very misleading and somewhat deceptive!!

And, you continue to spout that worn out ‘living wage’ drivel and that ‘totally ignorant’ DUMPING crap, totally ignoring the reality of what is happening!!

“Every Wal-Mart employee…

I never wrote that. However there are some.”

Then Bob writes-
“Okay, how many are SOME? “ Bob, at least you are admitting to this lie you told. Try reading rather than avoiding/evading all the reports on poverty ‘associated’
(get it!) with WalMart and the police blotters for this exact problem of homeless ‘low wage’ leader impoverished ‘associates’. Start with the Atlanta area, OK,OK, I know you won’t ever give consideration to newspaper reports or police reports or university studies or any of dozens of other sources about WalMart creating poverty so why ask you to read anything.

Next you can continue another lie about WalMart not ‘dumping’ their ‘associates’ onto the states for health care.

Even though you and WalMart lie about the details, why is it that they provide any kind of health care coverage at all under your and Nick’s Nigerian business philosophy? The managers at WalMart get it. Bentonville slobs get it.

WalMart- ‘living wage’? ‘family wage’? ‘health care’? We don’t understand. And we don’t want to either. We rather ‘dump’ our ‘associates’ onto the states for welfare because we are ‘love of money’ psychopaths. Let the taxpayers pick-up the bill. Sure it is embarrassing, but we have paid blogger frauds like Bob and Nick to lie for us.

SDV,

““Okay, how many are SOME? “ Bob, at least you are admitting to this lie you told.”

Since when, is asking a question, admitting to a lie?  And, what LIE are you talking about, I don’t lie?  You go more off the deep end, with every post you write!!

Let’s recap shall we-

“You are the one who buys into this “Every Wal-Mart employee is sleeping in their car in the parking lot”…
Bob in
Wednesday, May 30 at 11:33 AM

Every Wal-Mart employee…

I never wrote that. However there are some. Typical lies and distortions from blogger frauds like you Bob.

““Okay, how many are SOME? “ Bob, at least you are admitting to this lie you told.”

Since when, is asking a question, admitting to a lie?  And, what LIE are you talking about, I don’t lie?
Bob in
Friday, June 01 at 03:30 AM

The dialogue speaks for itself. Apparently as a blogger fraud you cannot even tell the difference between your lies, distortions and propaganda stink parade any more.

WalMart- Billions in subsidies as corporate welfare and ‘dumping’ associates onto the states for more welfare embarrassment because we pay impoverishment wages.
Bob thinks it is ‘free enterprise’.

“The Shepherd drives the wolf from the sheep’s throat, for which the sheep thanks the shepherd as a liberator, while the wolf denounces him for the same act as a destroyer of liberty.” Abraham Lincoln