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Wal-Mart Retains Position of “Worst Company Ever”
We don’t really have much to say on the issues this author brings up with Google, but we’re glad to see that Wal-Mart’s still being held up as a bastion of all things wrong with corporate America. Author Ranjit Mathoda actually does a pretty good job enumerating all the problems Wal-Mart still faces with its corporate ethics.
Is Wal-Mart Actually ‘More Evil’ Than Google? [Seeking Alpha]
In one of the Democratic primary debates, Barack Obama slammed Hillary Clinton by saying, “While I was working on those [Chicago] streets, watching those folks see their jobs shift overseas, you were a corporate lawyer sitting on the board of Wal-Mart.”
The accusation played very well with the audience, and was hailed by commentators as a stinging blow. Yet the blow is only stinging, the accusation only biting, if an association with Wal-Mart (WMT) is something to be deeply ashamed of.
That Wal-Mart is evil seems like conventional wisdom these days. The message of Wal-Mart’s evil is promoted through documentaries, magazines, books and on numerous websites. In the Democratic party, the view of Wal-Mart as evil has prevailed so significantly that even Mr. Obama, who demonstrated in his book The Audacity of Hope (see my book review) a willingness to admire some Republican policies and who has generally held himself to a tone of polite political discourse, reminded Hillary of her role as a Wal-Mart director with a combination of ferocity, incredulity, disdain and relish (see the debate video).
In contrast, it is a matter of faith that Google (GOOG), while it may not always be good, at least tries hard to do good. Many political candidates have traveled to Google’s famous campus and expressed their admiration for the company, including Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, and John McCain (see the candidates at Google). When Mr. Obama was at Google he said (see the video):
It is wonderful to be back [at Google]. … It’s always good to be back in Mountain View. … We know how the first chapters [of the Google story] have turned out, after all all of you have good jobs. … Technology and innovation have reshaped our economy and our lives at breathtaking speeds … Google has helped to show us the way.
Yet perceptions of companies can be really wrong. Warren Buffett, the world’s richest person and arguably its most successful investor, and a skillful observer of corporate and public behavior, pointed out in his 1989 Chairman’s letter that what people think of as evil corporate behavior and what they think is generous can be completely unrelated to reality.
Mr. Buffett writes:
One of the ironies of business is that many relatively unprofitable industries that are plagued by inadequate prices habitually find themselves beat upon by irate customers even while other, hugely profitable industries are spared complaints, no matter how high their prices. Take the breakfast cereal industry, whose return on invested capital is more than double that of the auto insurance industry… The cereal companies regularly impose price increases, few of them related to a significant jump in their costs. Yet not a peep is heard from consumers. But when auto insurers raise prices by amounts that do not even match cost increases, customers are outraged. If you want to be loved, it’s clearly better to sell high-priced corn flakes than low-priced auto insurance.
Let us therefore consider the conventional public perceptions of Wal-Mart and Google with a degree of care. What has caused such different perceptions of Wal-Mart and Google? What makes one company evil and another good? Is it huge profit, market dominance that crushes all competition, or low salaries and benefits? Is it something else altogether?
One criticism that is often made of very successful companies is that they use their dominance to make huge profits that they then use mostly to reward their shareholders. It is undeniable that both Wal-Mart and Google make a lot of profit. Wal-Mart made almost $13 billion in profit in the last twelve months, and its profits grew 13% from the prior year. Google made $4.2 billion in profit in the last twelve months, and its profits grew 37% from the prior year. Google actually makes a lot more profit for its shareholders as a portion of its revenues than Wal-Mart. For every dollar of revenue, after all costs are paid (including employee salaries and benefits), Google makes 25 cents for its shareholders, while Wal-Mart makes 4 cents.
Another criticism of a strong company is that by crushing the competition it is depriving customers of choices. Both Wal-Mart and Google started very small, and admirably grew to dominance despite the presence of much larger, better financed competitors. As the leader in providing low prices, Wal-Mart has made goods vastly more affordable for people at all parts of the economic spectrum. Even if you don’t shop at Wal-Mart, it has forced companies that compete with it to lower the prices they charge you, improve their ambiance and start selling goods that can’t be found at Wal-Mart. Similarly, even if you don’t use Google it has forced other search engine companies to get much better and it has forced the advertising industry to reappraise the value they provide for each advertising dollar. Wal-Mart and Google have both caused some competitors to fail and others to adapt. Google’s dominance crushed Excite, Lycos, and AltaVista, while severely hurting once dominant companies such as AOL (TWX) and Yahoo (YHOO), and posing a long term threat to very dominant companies such as Microsoft (MSFT) and Apple (AAPL).
Both Wal-Mart and Google have tremendous market share, but in their markets Google is by far more dominant, with Wal-Mart accounting for about 7% share of retail goods and food sold, and Google having more than a 58% share of search advertising. While it is easy to avoid Wal-Mart, most people don’t end up avoiding Google in an average day. It does not seem like Wal-Mart is growing its dominance very much, since people simply prefer other stores to Wal-Mart for many goods, whereas Google’s market is increasing in size even as its market share is increasing. Also, while Wal-Mart is unlikely to push into new industries, Google is bringing its sophisticated technology and advertising methods to what have historically been considered to be completely different industries, potentially threatening newspapers, and radio, television, and telecommunications companies.
But isn’t Wal-Mart stingy with its employees, while Google is generous? Wal-Mart is often criticized with respect to the salary and benefits its employees receive. In contrast, Google is praised for being generous to its employees, with great salaries, stock grants, and a list of perks that excite adulation and envy. Yet when people contrast the evilness of Wal-Mart with the goodness of Google, they overlook that they are comparing workers at far different skill levels, but compare the salary and benefits both provide as if they had employees of the same skill level.
What is the appropriate pay for a worker? An individual or a company employs someone to do a job only if the value they are getting appears to them to exceed the price they are paying. Sometimes the value you get from having a gardener do some landscaping is vastly greater than the market price you pay for the gardener’s services. Sometimes you have enough wealth to easily pay the gardener far more than you do. But there is an understanding between you and the gardener that they will be paid about or a little above the market price for their services. That market price is not based on what you could pay. A market price is based on what their alternative best employment choice is.
Wal-Mart utilizes a small group of well paid managers, some well paid highly skilled workers, and a very large base of low skilled workers who have a wage far below that of the average Google employee, but a reasonable wage compared to Wal-Mart’s primary competitors. Google has a small group of highly paid managers but it also has a broad base of highly skilled workers who have a wage far above that of the average Wal-Mart worker. The truth is that Wal-Mart does employ some web developers that have a skill level similar to those at Google. Interestingly, it pays those workers at a level similar to that of a Google employee. It must do so, for a high level of skill brings a high value to an employer, which must then meet market prices for that skill level.
Is Wal-Mart really paying the market price for the services of its low skill workers? If there were better pay available in the market place for the skill levels of the people Wal-Mart employs, people would presumably be leaving their job at Wal-Mart. Yet when Wal-Mart posts a job opening there is overwhelming demand to fill it. For workers of a certain skill level, a Wal-Mart job is very attractive compared to their alternatives.
Wal-Mart has found a business model that obtains a profit using workers at a low skill level paid at market prices. When politicians admire Google’s cleverness, they interestingly overlook that Google hasn’t figured out a way to profitably employ people at the lower skill levels that Wal-Mart will hire at. While people complain about the market rate salary and benefits Wal-Mart is willing to pay to a worker that has a low skill level, it passes unnoticed that Google offers low skill level employees no salary, no benefits and indeed no job. One rationale is that Google is in an entirely different business that requires a higher skill level from its employees. That is clearly true, but the fact remains that Wal-Mart offers a job to workers at a low skill level and Google simply doesn’t have a profitable way of employing them.
While it is convenient for a politician to attach responsibility to Wal-Mart for the low market price in salary and benefits that a low level of skill gets, it doesn’t set the market price for those skill levels. If the value a low skill level employee was generating were worth a higher salary and higher benefits another employer would lure them away from Wal-Mart with the promise of higher pay then Wal-Mart is willing to give.
Isn’t Wal-Mart diminishing the number of jobs at a low skill level that exist in the economy? One criticism that is made of Wal-Mart is that because it is so successful in the retail industry it has reduced the overall number of low skill jobs in the country. The problem with this criticism is that the number of low skill workers outside of the retail sector dwarfs the number in the retail sector, and even in the retail sector the number of low skill workers outside of Wal-Mart dwarfs those in Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart is likely to influence the market price for low skill level workers, but it doesn’t set the market price.
Imagine for a moment that an inventor in Silicon Valley suddenly started selling for a very low price a box that could instantly transport goods from one place to another. That kind of technology would be heralded as a great innovation. It would save so much money in terms of distribution costs it would inevitably make the economy far more efficient.
Yet it would also change what kind of businesses exist. It would displace the postal service and numerous retail establishments, possibly including Wal-Mart’s large stores. On the whole that box would be good for society but it would cause considerable readjustments in what kinds of companies investors have faith in, what kind of profits can be obtained, and what kind of work workers end up doing. When it comes to a technology displacing the low skilled workers that worked in retail, it is easy to see that the efficiency the technology brings doesn’t kill alternative careers for those low skilled workers because there are still very useful jobs they can do.
When a new business model such as Wal-Mart comes along, people don’t view it the same way they would view a gee whiz technology that has a similar economic effect. Wal-Mart is a more efficient distribution box than what existed before it. While a low skill worker may lose a job at a Wal-Mart competitor that does not adapt, they may gain one at a competitor that does adapt, or at a service business that takes advantage of the extra cash a Wal-Mart customer has to spend because of Wal-Mart’s existence.
Even if Wal-Mart is paying their employees at the market price for that skill level, shouldn’t Wal-Mart at least provide its employees better healthcare? In a just society, everyone clearly should have a certain amount of basic services, including healthcare. Politicians like to speak about universal coverage but they aren’t very specific about who gets to decide the level of coverage or who pays for it. The way the American healthcare system currently works is that if you obtain health insurance for yourself you receive no tax benefit in obtaining that coverage. If your employer pays for your healthcare, they receive a reduction of their taxes. This has led most companies to provide some form of healthcare coverage for their employees. This coupling of employment and healthcare creates some perverse incentives in the healthcare system. It has created a feeling of paternalism, like companies are our fathers or families, wrapping us in their warm embrace. We all expect every effort will be made to protect our health, and we would like our companies to pay for all of it.
Companies themselves often buy into this view. After all, it is easier to create a team ethic if everyone feels they are a family, working towards a common goal. Yet companies aren’t really families. If the healthcare and salary received by an employee exceeds the value they bring to an employer, they won’t get hired and will be without both healthcare and salary. Since a low skill worker is not of much economic value to Google (except as another eye to put advertising in front of), low skilled workers have no opportunity to earn a salary or receive healthcare benefits from Google. Wal-Mart does derive economic value from low skilled workers, but it seeks to pay salary and healthcare benefits that are at the market price for such workers. Before governments mandate an employer provide certain levels of healthcare to its employees it is therefore worth asking whether this will cause certain workers to be without a job and what role employers or governments should have in organizing healthcare coverage at all.
Whatever organization is paying for healthcare, whether it is Wal-Mart, Google or the government, must obtain the resources to pay for the healthcare from somewhere and must then decide how those funds will be spent. Organizations do this by reducing the salary their employees would otherwise receive and then deciding to offer their employees a limited set of healthcare plans.
This creates three problems for the employee. The first is that individual employees, who often know their own health needs far better than an organization, have a limited ability to decide whether to receive extra salary versus extra health coverage. The choice to trade one for the other is taken away by the organization that arranges their healthcare.
The second problem is that to a large extent employees have no real control over the type of coverage they obtain. If they prefer a health plan with alternative medicine coverage, they only have the ability to obtain it if enough other employees agree and lobby the human resources department of their employer successfully.
Finally, to the healthcare insurer the employer to a significant extent becomes the customer they have to please, rather than the employee. This takes away some of the accountability in the system, and makes the employer far more important in the employee’s healthcare decisions than they have the right to be. This has translated into a difficulty of carrying insurance coverage to a new employer when you leave your prior employer. A complex system becomes difficult to manage.
It is ironic that the Democrats, who have a tendency to express a dislike of corporate power, are strongly in favor of expanding corporate responsibility for healthcare. A better solution is for the government to make sure (through direct grants or via a tax credit) that every citizen receives a certain dollar value of healthcare coverage, but give citizens the freedom to buy healthcare coverage of an amount and a type that the individuals choose. This would make individuals the customer for the healthcare system, without forcing them to adopt health plans chosen by a paternalistic employer or government. To his credit, John McCain has proposed reforming the tax code to eliminate the bias to employer sponsored health insurance and provide all individuals with a significant tax credit to increase individual insurance coverage (see Mr. McCain’s health policy). This could cause a radical restructuring of how healthcare coverage is obtained in America, with workers being paid a larger salary and companies stepping out of the business of providing healthcare coverage. If low skilled workers are falling below the minimum level of health coverage American society thinks is necessary for all of its citizens, the answer is not to saddle their potential employers with costs that might deprive those low skilled workers of jobs, it is to provide a base level of funding through the tax system to make sure every American has the ability to find suitable health coverage while ensuring they have the freedom to obtain such coverage in the way and from the providers that they prefer.
What is really to blame for the rage that Wal-Mart is receiving? It is a good thing to care for people, and to be concerned that they are not earning enough. It is terribly unfortunate that the market price for low skill workers is so low. When a politician condemns Wal-Mart for its evil ways, let us realize that the market price for a low skill worker is not set by Wal-Mart. It is set by the value of that worker’s skills, as that worker can realize that value through the alternatives they have. There are alternatives to working at Wal-Mart for a low skilled worker but they just aren’t that good, and they certainly aren’t offered by employers politicians praise like Google.
Companies exist to solve problems for their customers, and in doing so increase the value provided to our society at the lowest cost to our society. If Google finds that low skilled workers can’t perform a job Google needs done, Google shouldn’t be required to hire them, but comparing Google to Wal-Mart does illustrate that Wal-Mart must be paying at or above the going market price for low skilled workers, Google pays no price for low skilled workers, and that this is because Wal-Mart’s business model is better at making those low skilled workers useful than Google is.
The true solution for improving the lives of people with low skill levels is to increase their levels of skill. Even if not everyone is capable of increasing their skill level, if some are able to make the transition there will be a smaller overall number of low skilled workers in society, which will diminish the supply of low skilled workers and thus increase the market price they receive for their services. Why is this not being done already?
The real fault for the low level of skill these workers have lies in a system of education that lacks sufficient competition, accountability and resources to elevate those with low skill levels to higher levels of skill. Who controls the education system that most of these low skill workers suffer under? For most of the low skilled workers that are the subject of political scorn of Wal-Mart, it is the public elementary and middle schools. These schools often face a challenging environment, because they are required to teach students who are sometimes not equipped for success, using teachers with inadequate training, the wrong skills or insufficient time, all while being deprived of resources.
To their credit, politicians of all political stripes recognize this is a problem. The most powerful solution, increasing competition, is resisted by well intentioned members of the public that fear a voucher system or privatizing elementary and middle schools. Parents who feel strongly that public schools are underperforming simply pull their children out of public schools, if they have the means. Greater accountability is resisted by many powerful teacher’s unions, who dislike merit based pay, the freedom to fire the underperforming and broader testing with better tests. Greater resources are resisted by the segment of the public that has already given up on the public schools as highly inefficient, by the many parents who have used the free market to route around the inadequacies of public schools by putting their children into private schools.
Happily America is a place where even in the face of strong political opposition new ideas do get tried. Barack Obama, to his credit, has stated in his book The Audacity of Hope that teacher’s unions are sometimes part of the problem and that they must come to accept merit pay and firing the underperforming. John McCain has suggested that public education should be defined as one in which the public funds for a child’s education should flow to whatever school a parent chooses (see Mr. McCain’s education policy). Although there are significant differences between these policy positions, both are an improvement over where we are at today. Just as importantly, numerous entrepreneurs are figuring out ways to cost effectively deliver education, inside or outside the four walls of a school. Examples include edu20.org (a web based learning management system that also allows the sharing of teaching materials and pooling of resources), ck12.org (a website allowing the easy creation and dissemination of textbooks with modular components), edufire.com (a website that makes it easy to find and connect with a paid tutor through web video) and the Equity Project (a New York City charter school that plans to pay its teachers $125,000 plus a bonus based on performance but that also demands they perform; see NY Times article).
Perhaps it is no accident that Wal-Mart, which at $290 million a year is the second largest corporate donor in America, has decided to revise how it makes donations to focus on three areas only: healthcare, environmental sustainability, and education and training for 12 to 30 year olds (see article in the Financial Times).
Posted by Alex Goldschmidt on Monday, March 10, 2008
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COMMENTS
Everyone should read this from top to bottom because it’s RIGHT ON TARGET.
mary in
Monday, March 10 at 05:19 PM
I’m kind of suprised they posted it on here since it is actually not antiWalmart at all. Maybe they just didn’t read the article or couldn’t understand it.
Dave in
Monday, March 10 at 11:22 PM
“What is the appropriate pay for a worker? An individual or a company employs someone to do a job only if the value they are getting appears to them to exceed the price they are paying. Sometimes the value you get from having a gardener do some landscaping is vastly greater than the market price you pay for the gardener’s services. Sometimes you have enough wealth to easily pay the gardener far more than you do. But there is an understanding between you and the gardener that they will be paid about or a little above the market price for their services. That market price is not based on what you could pay. A market price is based on what their alternative best employment choice is.
Wal-Mart utilizes a small group of well paid managers, some well paid highly skilled workers, and a very large base of low skilled workers who have a wage far below that of the average Google employee, but a reasonable wage compared to Wal-Mart’s primary competitors.” ~ Warren Buffett
Gee, seems like this whole article is exactly what I and others have been saying all along!! And, I think that Warren knows a little bit about how businesses should operate!! Notice the part that says, “but a “reasonable wage” compared to Wal-Mart’s primary competitors.”, not abusing, cheating or none of the other accusations that have been made about them!! It’s just too bad that some here don’t and probably never will, GET IT!!
Notice also, how both Buffett and Barack Obama mention how the “teacher’s union” is a big part of the education problem, by resisting “merit pay and firing the underperforming.”!!
“Perhaps it is no accident that Wal-Mart, which at $290 million a year is the second largest corporate donor in America, has decided to revise how it makes donations to focus on three areas only: healthcare, environmental sustainability, and education and training for 12 to 30 year olds (see article in the Financial Times).”
Seems here, Wal-Mart is claimed to be “the second largest donor in America”, focusing on healthcare, the environment and education and are not the ‘worse’ in these areas, as claimed by many anti Wal-marters!!
RDS in
Tuesday, March 11 at 01:13 AM
...since it is actually not antiWalmart at all.
Yeah, I had to read nearly half before I realized Ranjit Mathoda was in the tank for Wal-Mart.
You want to talk about Wal-Mart’s superiority at paying less for lower skill levels? Ok, let’s look at the other end of the ladder.
Dr. Eric Schmidt ~ Chairman of the Board and Chief Executive Officer Google
Total Compensation ~ $0.56 mil
Total Return (stock) During Tenure ~ 79%
----------------------------
H Lee Scott Jr ~ CEO Wal-Mart
Total Compensation ~ $9.1 mil
Total Return (stock) During Tenure ~ -3.4%
-----------------------------
In fact, Scott makes Forbes list of Overpaid Bosses so spare me the efficiency of pay at or below market value for skill levels.
Ken V in Texas
Tuesday, March 11 at 08:17 AM
I’ll complete my MBA very shortly. I’ll say put me as CEO of Walmart for $700,000, I’ll treat all lower employees better than how they are being treated this minute.
AAO in Wilmington, NC
Tuesday, March 11 at 09:43 AM
I love how everyone talks about Lee Scott’s pay in relation to the poor workers. At the 9 million mark if you divided that by the 1.5 million plus employees every employee would get $6 a year. I’m not sure that that would really make a difference. While he may or may not deserve all of that it really has no affect on the pay of the workers, and the job of Walmart CEO would definately be a little more challenging then being the CEO of Google since there is a lot more to run and a lot more decisions to make.
Dave in
Tuesday, March 11 at 11:21 AM
Ken it took you reading half this story before you realized the reality of the points mentioned? And “in the tank” for Walmart?...... for pointing out the facts of life?.... Walmart’s “superiority” at paying less for lower skill workers…
Oh boy are you brainwashed!
Maybe if you wern’t drinking so much from the “anti-Walmart” cooler you would cite other things from the story such as Google’s 58% market share of search advertising vs. Walmart’s 7% of the retail industry. Where’s the outrage to that monopoly?
mary in
Tuesday, March 11 at 11:40 AM
This article is extremely pro-walmart… i’m not sure why it’s posted here.
but pro-walmart or not, there are several points that the author neglects to note.
Wal-Mart may pay market value for their employees and Wal-Mart may have innovated a more efficient way of selling things, but there is no mention of where Wal-Mart’s merchandise comes from and who make its.
Wal-Mart gained competitive advantage through their low prices. These low prices are a product of outsourcing American jobs (because the global market value for labor was lower) and making products in sweatshops and using slave labor.
Wal-Mart depresses local economies and promotes poverty. When other stores go out of business, as the author admits, the workers may find jobs at competing business (ie. Wal-Mart) Therefore, it’s not really about Wal-Mart offering a competitive or market wage, it’s about not having choices.
And while this all might seem part of the beauty and complexity of capitalism, it’s not true capitalism. Revisit your economics textbooks. A principle of capitalism which is rarely if ever promoted is ‘perfect information’. I’ve never seen this at Wal-Mart or any other store. It’s not capitalism we’re practicing, it’s the process of watching the rich get richer on the backs of others.
axn in big city
Tuesday, March 11 at 04:33 PM
I’m not sure that that would really make a difference.
As usual, you missed the point, Dave.
Ken V in Texas
Tuesday, March 11 at 07:33 PM
I get the point that you are trying to make, but it just doesn’t hold any water. If he was made $300,000 a year, we would still be paid no better and there would really be no other difference other than that Lee Scott might have to sell a house or jet or something. I’m not sure how that makes Walmart a better company.
Dave in
Tuesday, March 11 at 08:55 PM
“ If he was made $300,000 a year, we would still be paid no better and there would really be no other difference other than that Lee Scott might have to sell a house or jet or something."~Dave
He just doesn’t get it. The issue is the low wage/low benefits of the workers no matter what Lee Scott makes. It only makes it worse because so many executives (Lee Scott as a perfect example) lack the leadership but only provide a Master/Slave relationship when it comes to own compensation vs. the workers.
Todays so called business leaders have been able to increase their compensation packages to 400 times the average workers salary. Some have pushed it to a 1000 times such as our friend Lee. This is a far cry from the 40 times that executives used to take for their salary.
Yes it is a total lack of leadership. Lee Scott is a taker, not a leader.
R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse
R E M E M B E R
J A C K S O N V I L L E
T E X A S
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse
Alex in Ontario, Canada
Tuesday, March 11 at 09:35 PM
Alex,
“He just doesn’t get it. The issue is the low wage/low benefits of the workers no matter what Lee Scott makes.”
Gee, I thought that was exactly what Dave said!! What YOU fail to get, is that leadership has little to do with how little or how much a CEO is paid, if it did, then why not just grab Joe the stocker and put him up front in the CEO chair and pay him $100,000.00 a year, I’ll bet he would take that in a heartbeat, but that wouldn’t make him a ‘good’ leader!! The problem would come, when the business started falling apart!! Like it was mentioned before, Lee Scott’s salary amounts to about $6.00 per employee per year and, if you don’t think handling 1.5 million employees is a ‘big’ job, think about how much work it would be handling your own life, multiplied by 1.5 million!! Or, do you think that handling your life is a ‘snap’ with almost zero problems everyday? You have NO CLUE as to what a CEO job entails and the responsibility attached to it, it’s not as easy as pushing carts from the parking lot or ringing up sales on a register!! In fact it could be said that the CEO job IS 1,000 times harder than the average store worker, not just 40!! As for if Lee Scott is a leader or not, what are your qualification that makes you an EXPERT on who is a good leader and who isn’t? What have YOU personally ever ‘lead’ to make that judgement? Or, are you just talking from your emotion, because they closed that store in Canada?
RDS in
Tuesday, March 11 at 10:27 PM
If paying employees market rate or below is a good idea at the lower skill levels, why isn’t it a good idea at the higher skill levels?
And why should compensation be welded to performance at the lower levels but not even casually linked at the top?
</i>Our customer base is not necessarily a leader, an early adopter.</i> ~ H. Lee Scott
Ken V in Texas
Wednesday, March 12 at 05:51 AM
So lets see. Lee Scott makes a 1000 times the average worker. He encourages your American (and our Canadian) manufacturing jobs to move to China. The Chinese workers make 1 hundredth of what an American worker makes.
(Lee Scott 1000 x’s average US worker. American workers jobs > China that pays 1% of what Americans used to make)
You call that leadership? Maybe for his other country China. May I suggest to you that your Walmart president may not be working for the interests of his country?
R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse
R E M E M B E R
J A C K S O N V I L L E
T E X A S
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse
Alex in Ontario, Canada
Wednesday, March 12 at 06:43 AM
Lee Scott hasn’t forced any jobs to China. Walmart doesn’t manufacture anything. The suppliers are the ones that moved jobs overseas, and since there are a lot of fields that moved overseas that had nothing or very little to do with Walmart, the jobs most likely would have moved whether or not Walmart existed. As far as his pay being linked to his performance, part of his pay is from incentives which means his pay is linked to his performance, and last time I saw I don’t think he was in the top five for highest paid ceo’s in the US even though he is head of the largest employer in America, and it is always 1 or 2 in terms of sales and revenue. I would think that that would make him paid at or below market value.
Dave in
Wednesday, March 12 at 08:06 AM
Really, Dave?
Lakewood Engineering and Manufacturing Company, Huffy Bikes, and Rubbermaid. Just a few examples of Wal-Mart forcing (or I guess, coercing) production to move to China.
And doesn’t Wal-Mart have its own brand - which is produced out of country? And aren’t there numerous exclusives for Wal-Mart also produced overseas? And aren’t these the same products and producers that appear in the papers for sweatshop labor?
axn in city
Wednesday, March 12 at 09:01 AM
I would think that that would make him paid at or below market value. ~ Dave
Overpaid Bosses ~ Forbes
Who to believe?
Ken V in Texas
Wednesday, March 12 at 09:25 AM
What YOU fail to get, is that leadership has little to do with how little or how much a CEO is paid, if it did, then why not just grab Joe the stocker and put him up front in the CEO chair and pay him $100,000.00 a year, I’ll bet he would take that in a heartbeat, but that wouldn’t make him a ‘good’ leader!! The problem would come, when the business started falling apart!! Like it was mentioned before, Lee Scott’s salary amounts to-----RDS As far as his pay being linked to his performance, part of his pay is from incentives which means his pay is linked to his performance -----Dave -------- Did either of you gentleman happen to watch the recent Congressinal hearings involving the CEOs of Countrywide,Merrill Lynch, and Citigroup? That was some sticky wickets to explain the platinum paychecks for their so called “leadership” and perfrmance. (If you chose to play follow the leader,caveat emptor, be damn sure he’s not leading you to the slaughter,while saving himself from the axe.) BTW, I see where Countrywide is up for federal investigation.LOL
ddrb in
Wednesday, March 12 at 09:27 AM
Alex;
I believe the problem you and others are having, is that you think ‘leadership’ should follow your idea of how to run a company. Is asking suppliers to lower their costs a ‘good’ business decision? It sure is. After all, the main objective of a CEO, is to ‘maximize’ profits. Many times, a ‘good’ business decision and leadership, will be very different, than what an employee or outside source may consider as best from their viewpoint. Results of the objective is proof of whether or not the decision was correct or not. And increasing the profit, in a period of a ‘slowing’ enconomy could be viewed as meeting that objective.
As for the pay situation, you forget one thing, an employee gets paid for what they did ‘today’, the CEO gets paid based on what they are ‘expected’ to do over a number of ‘years’. That is why the employee gets paid wages and the CEO gets paid a salary.
Charles in Brighton, Tn.
Wednesday, March 12 at 10:54 AM
Thanks axn in city. Either we are totally starting from scratch when it comes to Daves knowledge or he is suffering from a strong case of denial. I think it is the second choice.
“.....an employee gets paid for what they did ‘today’, the CEO gets paid based on what they are ‘expected’ to do over a number of ‘years’....."~ Charles in Brighton, Tn.
So are we to assume Charles that the CEO is just getting an advance on his pay, and will not be receiving money in the future? Of course not. He is just getting a thousand times the average workers pay EVERYDAY, while holding your fellow citizens to the lowest possible level and at the same time sending what decent paying manufacturing jobs you have left to another country. A communist country with a very different system of government. What does that say?
Some how I don’t think the American dream involved China when the phrase was first coined. You folks who support this downward spiral of society may wish to open your eyes.
R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse
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Alex in Ontario, Canada
Wednesday, March 12 at 03:46 PM
Can Lee Scott run in your upcoming presidential election?
He can run on the platform of how many more jobs he can encourage to be exported from America to China?
That’s real leadership right? No it isn’t.
Unlike what was said about General Motors, no one will EVER be able to say “What’s good for Walmart, is good for American”. Walmart is not good for your country in my opinion.
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J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse
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Alex in Ontario, Canada
Wednesday, March 12 at 03:55 PM
Alex,
“Unlike what was said about General Motors,”
Do they STILL say that about GM? And, what does GM have to do with Wal-Mart? If somehow you could just SEE, that it was higher wages in this country that caused jobs to go overseas, instead of hanging on to that old ‘It’s Wal-Mart’s fault”, maybe something could be done to stem the tide!! But, as long as you continue to point your finger and refuse to see where HIGH WAGES actually came from, nothing will be accomplished!! As you know, HIGH WAGES didn’t come from Wal-Mart!!
Don’t forget, if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem!! Are you trying to say that Canada, doesn’t buy ANYTHING from China? Do your country’s citizens buy only “Made in Canada”?
I also find it strange that a guy who talks against a communist country, would be advocating going to a communist (socalistic)type of healthcare system!!
RDS in
Wednesday, March 12 at 04:19 PM
That’s right, RDS. Wal-Mart chose China specifically for the lack of labor and environmental protection laws that we have in the US because it’s cheaper. Exploiting Chinese workers is indeed cheaper than exploiting American ones.
However, you failed to mention that Wal-Mart’s slow down could also be for other reasons. Like after Wal-Mart destroyed the competition (through predatory pricing and also in some legitimate ways like an efficient supply chain), and depressed local communities (because most the profits leave the community) Wal-Mart expanded so greatly that it started to cannibalize itself. …How’s that for some justice.?
axn in big city
Wednesday, March 12 at 04:39 PM
“If somehow you could just SEE, that it was higher wages in this country that caused jobs to go overseas, instead of hanging on to that old ‘It’s Wal-Mart’s fault”, maybe something could be done to stem the tide!!"~Bob(RDS)
It is more like non-existent wages of China. This is far beyond a union vs. non-union issue. China’s wages are 1/100 of what the manufacturing jobs were in North America. You can’t compete with starvation third world pennies an hour wages and you know it. If you were offered 25, 30 or even 50 cents an hour would you have worked for that Bob?
Your Walmart is not the only company dealing in the overseas market. But it is your Walmart that has lead the way from the beginning by flooding North American with these goods by being a direct pipeline into the homes for the Chinese government. If it wasn’t for WM then these goods would have had a much harder time getting over here.
In conclusion please don’t insult my intelligence with your “communist (socalistic)type of healthcare system!!” comments. You need to do alot more research before you try to talk about things you don’t know much about.
It is YOUR Walmart that is in bed with real communism and they aren’t sleeping either.
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Alex in Ontario, Canada
Wednesday, March 12 at 05:32 PM
“Like after Wal-Mart destroyed the competition “
hm… that’s interesting… a brand new Walmart Superstore just opened in our area last week. Before that the original store was open for at least 10 years. Now consider the fact that I can drive 15 minutes in any direction of this store and what will I find… competition galore! From the likes of Safeway, Giant, Superfresh, Target, Costco, KMart, Sears, local grocery and hardware stores, etc.
So much for that theory that Walmart destroys the competition. Maybe if the “competition” is no longer in business it’s because they wern’t smart enough to compete in the first place and probably operated monoplistically.
mary in
Wednesday, March 12 at 07:42 PM
axn,
“depressed local communities (because most the profits leave the community)”
It may be true that most of the ‘profits’ leave the community, but ‘profits’ are after expenses, like wages, electric bills, gas bills, property taxes, sales taxes, water bills, which all stay in the community and help it prosper!! Does a community profit more, from a Wal-Mart store, or an empty lot?
Alex,
I suggest you read a history book sometime, China is in the infancy of their ‘Industrial Revolution’, back at the time America was at the start of their “Industrial Revolution’, the wage scale of the average worker was far less than 25 cents an hour and it took us about 200 years to get to the wages to where they are today!! Why would you expect things to be different somewhere else? Also, if you knew anything about ‘supply and demand’, you would realize that with a population of 3.2 Billion people, China’s supply of unskilled workers, far exceeds the employment needs!! Add to all of that, the fact that we are moving out of the Industrial Age and into the Service/Technology Age and the fact that we are going to a ‘Global Economy”, you might better see why things are going as they are!! You either ‘go with the flow’ or get left behind, guess you prefer to be left behind!! Besides, it is almost IMPOSSIBLE to have a ‘Global Economy’ if you exclude every country in the world, except North America!!
RDS in
Thursday, March 13 at 02:15 AM
“.....back at the time America was at the start of their “Industrial Revolution’, the wage scale of the average worker was far less than 25 cents an hour and it took us about 200 years to get to the wages to where they are today!!"~Bob(RDS)
It also took 200 years to get everyday living expenses to where they are today. You can’t justify 25 cents an hour as being fair competition for North American workers unless you can buy a house for the same price as it was 200 years ago.
“You either ‘go with the flow’ or get left behind, guess you prefer to be left behind!!"~Bob(RDS)
I would prefer to be left behind if it means supporting my economy. We are citizens, not just consumers. Walmart wants the general public to forget that.
R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse
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Alex in Ontario, Canada
Thursday, March 13 at 05:23 AM
For you casual readers let me illustrate what I mean by “in the tank”.
The writers of the above comments that praise H. Lee Scott and his leadership are in the tank for Wal-Mart. You can measure his tenure as CEO by an criteria you choose and he comes up mediocre at best and “overpaid”.
You either ‘go with the flow’ or get left behind...
Are you converting all your dollars to euros?
Ken V in Texas
Thursday, March 13 at 05:28 AM
I suppose we could measure his perfomance by the stock price for the last year during which Walmart beat Target, SHLD, and all three major markets. In fact it was the only one of those six that actually increased during that time. Also part of the reason he is paid so much like I said previously is that he has far more people under him and far more people that are targeting him simply because Walmart is the biggest and is nonunion. Being on the hot seat all the time is a lot of stress hence the high pay.
Back to the part about jobs going overseas, Walmart didn’t force any of those companies overseas. They BARGAINED with them, and those companies decided that the only way that they could get their prices where Walmart wanted them was to move overseas. Why is that Walmart’s fault? How about blaming the managment of those companies for taking the easy way out instead of actually running their companies more efficiently or just telling Walmart that that was their price, and they couldn’t drop it any more. If their product was any good people would be more than happy to go to Target or some other competitor to get their merchandise. As far as Walmart’s brand, the majority of that is made by other companies and they just throw Sam’s choice on it (see the Cotts topic a couple pages down), and most of it doesn’t even say where it is made. It just said marketed by Walmart Stores INC Bentonville, Ar.
Dave in
Thursday, March 13 at 08:09 AM
I’m still waiting for the “Made in America” store to open up in my area. It will only sell goods that are truly (yea ddrb) made in America where it will also offer a “living wage” to each of it’s employees. Advertise that concept to all the locals and let them decide where they want to shop.
Don’t you think this is a great concept for the UFCW to take on themselves? That way they can prove multiple points… 1) Consumers only want goods made in america. 2) Consumers will support a “living wage” for retail employees 3) Consumers hate shopping at stores like Walmart. This should be a no brainer coming from a union that thinks they know better than retail stores like Walmart, Target, KMart, Costco, Sears etc. on how to run a retail business.
mary in
Thursday, March 13 at 08:58 AM
mary;
[I’m still waiting for the “Made in America” store to open up in my area.]
That sounds like a good idea, maybe people like Ken, ddrb, and the other anti walmart people could start one in each of their cities. With all of their financial smarts, they should have enough ‘bucks’ saved up to finance the project and make a ‘killing’.
As for the UFCW idea, that too sounds like a good idea, kind of makes them put their money where their mouth is, so to speak. Just think, had they invested the money spent on their anti walmart site, to do what you said, they could be going full bore by now and reaping ‘big’ profits for their members, instead of wasting it on this smear campaign.
Charles in Brighton, Tn.
Thursday, March 13 at 11:48 AM
May I suggest that Dave, Mary, and Charles (you to if you want Bob) may wish to start up your own store also.
It could be called the “Formerly Made In America” store.
You could have giant yellow Rolled Back to America product signs, and a Buy Formerly Made In America promotion, and maybe decorate with a few foreign made flags around the building.
Oh dear, I’m sorry. That’s Walmart.
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J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse
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Alex in Ontario, Canada
Thursday, March 13 at 04:35 PM
mary & Charles,
Will NEVER happen, because they know that that sort of business model is flawed and would never fly!! If consumers wanted to buy “Made in America” products, THEY WOULD, truth is, Target, Costco, K-Mart and all the other retailers have gone China, is because they knew that was what consumers wanted, if they didn’t, they would have their own “Buy American” campaigns, like Wal-Mart once did!!
Alex,
“I would prefer to be left behind if it means supporting my economy. We are citizens, not just consumers.”
Are you saying that allowing people to get more ‘Bang for their Buck’ is BAD for an economy? You are right, we are both, but, as they say, “Charity begins at home”, and stretching one’s dollar (or ‘loonie’ in your case) is good for the average family!! You seem to project that you feel it is better to just keep raising wages to provide for a person’s wants and needs, even if it increases prices and inflation!!
RDS in
Thursday, March 13 at 04:45 PM
On a serious note:
How long have the three of you been proud of the fact that most of the consumer products your citizens purchase are not American made? Just wondering.
R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse
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J A C K S O N V I L L E
T E X A S
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Alex in Ontario, Canada
Thursday, March 13 at 04:46 PM
I suppose we could measure his perfomance by the stock price...
You know what would eliminate a lot of your clutter, Dave, would be if you read the prior comments before making yours.
I suppose we could measure his perfomance by the stock price....
Ok, let’s:
H Lee Scott Jr ~ CEO Wal-Mart
Total Return (stock) During Tenure ~ -3.4%
It may be a little hard to see, Dave, but there is a (-) NEGATIVE sign in front of that 3.4%. See it?
Ken V in Texas
Thursday, March 13 at 06:47 PM
Everyone knows that in today’s society all the matters is what you have done lately and the past two year the stock price has beaten their competitors and the major markets. Also when did you get that number from? Since their stock price has been going up lately every day that number is shrinking and soon the negative sign will be gone.
Dave in
Thursday, March 13 at 09:31 PM
Alex,
“How long have the three of you been proud of the fact that most of the consumer products your citizens purchase are not American made?”
Probably about as long as you have been proud of the fact that Canadians have been purchasing products that are not Canadian Made!! I bought some bananas the other day, where in America would you grow them?
It is hard to understand the logic behind supporting Human Rights and then backing trade barriers!! Complaining about 25 cent an hour wages in another country and then saying that you don’t want business to increase in that country, which would raise their wages and increase their living conditions!!
Wonder how you would feel, if we stopped trading with Canada, because those products were not American made!!
RDS in
Thursday, March 13 at 10:42 PM
“When I read things like “I’m still waiting for the “Made in America” store to open up in my area. It will only sell goods that are truly (yea ddrb) made in America.....” it would appear that there is a Walmart before Country attitude that is growing with you Walmart lovers. Is something happening with people’s attitudes towards your red, white and blue?
I would suggest to you also that I have no problem purchasing American made goods because our economies are close to each other.
If you truely cared about third world countries then you would be going out of your way to purchase Fair Trade products. I however would be surprised if you did.
R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse
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T E X A S
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse
Alex in Ontario, Canada
Friday, March 14 at 05:42 AM
Dave:"Being on the hot seat all the time is a lot of stress hence the high pay.” Well,if that’s the criteria for” high pay”,then the cashiers, and ,especially customer service associates at WalMart,who are in the public hot seat EVERYDAY ought to qualify for WAY higher wages. They are akin to being at the front of the battle lines. Oh,I forgot ,they(soldiers) take all the heat,for very little pay,too!
ddrb in
Friday, March 14 at 06:46 AM
Also when did you get that number from?
05/03/08
Ken V in Texas
Friday, March 14 at 06:54 AM
Ooops..that should have been:
03/05/08
Ken V in Texas
Friday, March 14 at 06:55 AM
Cashiers and service desk associates are not high stress jobs. Give me a break. You can hire anyone to do those jobs. If they make a bad decision the worst that happens is they lose their jobs and most the time that wont even happen. If Lee Scott makes a really bad decision 1.5 million people could lose their jobs, and he gets to be known throughout history as the man who destroyed Walmart. There is really no comparison.
BTW Ken just doing some rough math and it would appear that the decrease is closer to 1% now. So it would seem things are moving in the right direction for him.
DAVE in
Friday, March 14 at 07:54 AM
“Cashiers and service desk associates are not high stress jobs. Give me a break. You can hire anyone to do those jobs."~Dave
Incredible!!! You have to have a PHD to have stress according to Dave.
“If Lee Scott makes a really bad decision 1.5 million people could lose their jobs,"~Dave
So who lost their job when Walmart played a part by encouraging manufacturing jobs to be lost to China?
“...and he gets to be known throughout history as the man who destroyed Walmart."~Dave
You write like Walmart has a legacy that is good and honourable. May I suggest you may be wrong on this.
R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse
R E M E M B E R
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T E X A S
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Alex in Ontario, Canada
Friday, March 14 at 04:00 PM
Alex;
[it would appear that there is a Walmart before Country attitude that is growing with you Walmart lovers.]
That’s funny, I thought mary and I were encouraging someone (like you and the unions), to compete against walmart with all of those ‘most wanted’ products that are “Made in America”. Think about how many new American businesses could be restarted supplying your stores and all the employees that would have jobs that were high paying, with great benefits. Sam Walton got a medal for his contribution to the country, just think about the medals you could get for revitalizing the country.
[May I suggest that Dave, Mary, and Charles (you to if you want Bob) may wish to start up your own store also.
It could be called the “Formerly Made In America” store.]
We don’t need to do that, we already have a wide selection of stores that do just that, not only walmart. After all, we aren’t the ones that are complaining, you and the unions are. See, there is a system that goes with capitalism, it’s called, if someone else isn’t providing something people want, you can get in on “The Ground Floor”, by providing that something, not waiting for someone else to do it. And, suprise, suprise, that is exactly how most ‘big’ businesses came into being and why the founders and their families, have so much money. We were just giving you free advice on how you could meet the needs of all those ‘Buy American’ customers and make a bundle in the process. Go for it! Or are you afraid that you might be wrong? All we ask is for you to put your money where your mouth is or keep it closed. After all, talk is cheap, doing is harder.
Charles in Brighton, Tn.
Friday, March 14 at 07:15 PM
May I suggest that Dave, Mary, and Charles (you to if you want Bob) may wish to start up your own store also.
It could be called the “Formerly Made In America” store.]
“We don’t need to do that, we already have a wide selection of stores that do just that, not only walmart. After all, we aren’t the ones that are complaining,....."~Charles in Brighton, Tn.
Patriotism is easy to understand in America - it means looking out for yourself by looking out for your country. ~Calvin Coolidge
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Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse
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Alex in Ontario, Canada
Friday, March 14 at 09:29 PM
Alex,
I would like for you to answer one question, even though you hardly ever have answered any in the past: What would be any American’s MOTIVE for destroying the country?
And, isn’t it strange, that most people in this country think that ‘Protectionism’ is not a good thing, including most of our government officials!! Maybe you see this as some kind of conspiracy theory by people who can’t see what you see!! But, maybe, just maybe, some people know more about how things work than you do!!
There is a saying that you may have heard, it is “No Pain - No Gain”, what you see now, is the Pain and later, you will see the Gain!! Wait for ACT 2!!
RDS in
Saturday, March 15 at 12:09 AM
I would like for you to answer one question, even though you hardly ever have answered any in the past: What would be any American’s MOTIVE for destroying the country?~Bob(RDS)
I don’t think you ever asked that question before. May I suggest that the answer below may apply to those near the top of the pyramid of Walmart.
greed
noun
1. excessive desire to acquire or possess more (especially more material wealth) than one needs or deserves
2. reprehensible acquisitiveness; insatiable desire for wealth (personified as one of the deadly sins) [syn: avarice]
“.....what you see now, is the Pain and later, you will see the Gain!! Wait for ACT 2!!"~Bob(RDS)
Please take this opportunity, if you choose, to comfort those who have lost their manufacturing jobs (in part thanks to Walmart) by unfolding ACT 2. What can we expect Bob?
R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse
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Alex in Ontario, Canada
Saturday, March 15 at 05:34 AM
“Incredible!!! You have to have a PHD to have stress according to Dave. “
I’m not even sure that Lee Scott has a PHD, but I have worked as a cashier and it isn’t a hard job. There is very little stress involved. People who think that that is a stressful job need to get out in the real world. The only reason I wouldn’t want to be a cashier long term is that it is boring standing in one place all day, but that hardly makes it a stressful job.
“So who lost their job when Walmart played a part by encouraging manufacturing jobs to be lost to China?"\
Walmart encouraged the companies to lower their prices. I’m not sure why you guys seem to think that bargaining for lower prices is a bad thing. If you own a house or car did you pay asking price for them or negotiate? Since you guys aren’t too bright it wouldn’t suprise me if you paid asking price, but most people negotate, and that is all Walmart does. Yet when they do it they are evil for doing so.
Dave in
Saturday, March 15 at 06:47 AM
What would be any American’s MOTIVE for destroying the country?
Money, blockhead, M-O-N-E-Y!
I find it incredible that after 8 years of Bush/Cheney anyone can still ask that question.
Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish caught will we realize we cannot eat money. ~ Cree Indian Proverb
Ken V in Texas
Saturday, March 15 at 08:10 AM
Alex,
“May I suggest that the answer below may apply to those near the top of the pyramid of Walmart....greed”
And, what reward is there for destroying the country based on that ‘greed’, remember, they already HAVE more money than they will ever use!! Why would anyone choose to gain a fortune, only to destroy the future of their heirs? Now, what about the people who AREN’T rich (like me), what is OUR motive?
What you need to do is to put money in perspective, rich people use wealth as a measurement of success, much like putting big numbers on the scoreboard of a football game, the more games you win at higher numbers gets you into the Superbowl!! The money is not as important as the measure of success, it’s nicer being #1, a big success, than #2!! Also, success flows like a river, providing jobs and tax revenues that help build a successfull economy!! Ever wonder why countries with few rich people are usually filled with lot’s of ‘poor’ people?
Act 2, is too complicated to explain here and with your frame of mind, you wouldn’t understand it anyhow!! I will give you a few clues though, look at Japan and then look at the ‘new’ factories being built in the U.S., by companies such as Toyota, Honda, Kia, and BMW, for example!! It involves eliminating wastefulness and replacing it with efficency!!
Ken V,
How much is that M-O-N-E-Y worth in a declining economy? Are the rich as wealthy today, as they were last year, with the declining value of the dollar? Wouldn’t their money be worth MORE if the economy were booming? How is it in their best interest to do things the WRONG way, instead of the RIGHT way?
RDS in
Saturday, March 15 at 01:00 PM
“There is a saying that you may have heard, it is “No Pain - No Gain”, what you see now, is the Pain and later, you will see the Gain!! Wait for ACT 2!!"~RDS(Bob)
After my request to view ACT 2, Bob writes the following:
“Act 2, is too complicated to explain here and with your frame of mind, you wouldn’t understand it anyhow!! I will give you a few clues though..."~RDS(Bob)
Is Act 2, too complicated to explain is it because you can’t explain it? Come on Bob, explain it for all those who would be able to understand it. Do it for them. If I have problems with it, then I will get someone to help me with it. I promise.
I hope to be looking forward to Act 2 Bob.
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J A C K S O N V I L L E
T E X A S
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J A C K S O N V I L L E
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Alex in Ontario, Canada
Saturday, March 15 at 03:17 PM
“ Since you guys aren’t too bright it wouldn’t suprise me if you paid asking price, but most people negotate, and that is all Walmart does. Yet when they do it they are evil for doing so."~Dave
So help us to understand Dave. Most people negotiate, and negotiating is all Walmart does. Yet your Walmart does not want its workers to be able to negotiate with their employer? Does Walmart consider it evil when the employee’s want to negotiate too, just like they do?
Now you also support Walmart when it comes to negotiating with its suppliers for lower cost. If slavery becomes legal in some part of the world again and the suppliers can cut costs lower than China, then what should Walmarts position be, according to your values?
Just wondering.
R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse
R E M E M B E R
J A C K S O N V I L L E
T E X A S
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse
Alex in Ontario, Canada
Saturday, March 15 at 03:34 PM
RDS in
Saturday, March 15 at 01:00 PM-------------------------
Ever wonder why countries with few rich people are usually filled with lot’s of ‘poor’ people?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Duh,ya’ think,RDS?
ddrb in
Saturday, March 15 at 06:14 PM
Alex,
“Is Act 2, too complicated to explain is it because you can’t explain it?’
I didn’t say I couldn’t explain it, I just said it was too complicated for someone with your mindset to understand!! By being complicated, I meant that it couldn’t be explained in a short post on this blog, there are many facets to it!! It would be like me asking you to explain the U.S. tax code, that is why I gave you some clues!! Here’s another clue: You are a citizen of your town, right? You are also a citizen of your Province, right? You are a citizen of Canada, right? You are also a citizen of North America too, right? Well, you are also a citizen of the World too, right? As a citizen of the world, shouldn’t you be concerned for the welfare of all your world neighbors?
“Yet your Walmart does not want its workers to be able to negotiate with their employer?”
Wal-Mart has NO problem negotiating with it’s workers, it is UNIONS they don’t want to negotiate with!! But, remember, in a negotiation, you can only win, what the other party is willing to give!!
“If slavery becomes legal in some part of the world again”
First, that is a hypothetical situation, but we would have to define “Slavery”, according to some here, ‘slavery’ already exists in both China and the U.S.!! Under the definition of ‘People Owning other People’ and utilizing them to produce goods, then I would be against Wal-Mart buying from them!! But, under the definition of paying people less than you expect them to, I would say “What the world market dictates” should be Wal-Mart’s guidelines!!
ddrb,
“Duh,ya’ think,RDS?”
Yeah, and if the government keeps taking more and more from our rich people, soon, there will be no more rich people, everybody will be poor and you’ll see what I eluded to!! Every year, we hear from the Democrats, to make the rich pay more and more taxes, as the population grows, what happens when the rich and corporations pay 100%!! If poor people pay zero, and some get more back than they paid in and the middle class pays about 18%, where do you think the other 82% of tax revenue comes from, the government ‘Money Tree’?
RDS in
Sunday, March 16 at 12:46 AM
“.....By being complicated, I meant that it couldn’t be explained in a short post on this blog, there are many facets to it!!"~Bob(RDS)
So Act 2 is too complicated, and now too long to explain to us.
Bob, I am going to suggest to you that you don’t have an answer and all this other stuff is just coverup. There is no Act 2. Your the only actor here.
“Wal-Mart has NO problem negotiating with it’s workers, it is UNIONS they don’t want to negotiate with!!"~Bob(RDS)
Unions represent the people. There is strength in numbers and that is what Walmart is trying to avoid. Walmart negotiates everyday with the power of thousands of stores.
It doesn’t negotiate with suppliers on an individual store basis.
So truly what Walmart does, it wants to prevent others from doing. Period.
May I suggest that yes slavery is alive and well by the deal that workers are existing with in places like China. I suppose you could go farther and just not pay people and hold them against their will. Would that be an opportunity for Walmart Bob? You never did answer.
R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse
R E M E M B E R
J A C K S O N V I L L E
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Home of Walmart Worker Abuse
Alex in Ontario, Canada
Sunday, March 16 at 05:19 AM
Alex,
“So Act 2 is too complicated, and now too long to explain to us....There is no Act 2. Your the only actor here.”
Yes, changing the WORLD is complicated and, no, I am not the ONLY actor, you have to be ‘blind’ not to see that!!
I thought that your ‘self centered mind’ would not get my clues!! Here’s another clue: Does the words “Global Economy” ring a bell? Your way is to protect the ‘status quo’, ours is to bring the world closer together towards peaceful cooperation!!
“Walmart negotiates everyday with the power of thousands of stores.”
But, Wal-Mart bargains on a ‘take it or leave it’ basis, unions bargain on a ‘take it or we’ll shut down your business’ basis, they are totally different!! If a union bargained with a “Take it or we’ll take our members somewhere else’ basis, you would have a valid comparison, and Wal-Mart wouldn’t have so much problem with unions!!
“I suppose you could go farther and just not pay people and hold them against their will. Would that be an opportunity for Walmart Bob?”
Another emotional hypothetical, how fitting!! But, yes, if people were NOT PAID and HELD AGAINST THEIR WILL, I would say Wal-Mart shouldn’t be part of that, but, that isn’t what is happening, so what’s your point!! Your point seems to be, that YOU don’t think those people are being PAID ENOUGH, which is merely YOUR emotional opinion!!
RDS in
Sunday, March 16 at 12:58 PM
Bob once again can only throw out so called “Clues”.
Act 2 is really a just a few words from someone that is clueless.
Thanks for not being able to explain your abstract theory Bob(RDS). I guess this is as far as your can go.
Maybe you can start to work an Act 3. It should take you about 30 seconds for all the explanation you can only provide.
R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse
R E M E M B E R
J A C K S O N V I L L E
T E X A S
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse
Alex in Ontario, Canada
Sunday, March 16 at 04:10 PM
RDS:” Another emotional hypothetical, how fitting!! But, yes, if people were NOT PAID and HELD AGAINST THEIR WILL, I would say Wal-Mart shouldn’t be part of that, but, that isn’t what is happening, so what’s your point!! Your point seems to be, that YOU don’t think those people are being PAID ENOUGH, which is merely YOUR emotional opinion!! “RDS in
Sunday, March 16 at 12:58 PM-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------RDS: It seems as though the only one being emotional is you,judging from the continual use of the double exclamation points.....(Just a bit of discernment, no discrimination intended,even when YOU are overemotional.)
ddrb in
Sunday, March 16 at 06:11 PM
Alex,
“Bob once again can only throw out so called “Clues”.”
And, once again, you have proved that you are ‘clueless’!! Even with all those clues I gave you, you still can’t figure it out!! Well, I will try to make it short for you, It has to do with Leveling the playing field in World Trade and pushing for World Peace!! And, raising the standard of living in 3rd world countries!! But, being a ‘protectionist’, you probably don’t care about such things!!
ddrb,
“judging from the continual use of the double exclamation points”
I use double exclamation points for a personal reason, not to express emotion!!
RDS in
Monday, March 17 at 01:25 AM
So we go from this:
”.....By being complicated, I meant that it couldn’t be explained in a short post on this blog, there are many facets to it!!"~Bob(RDS)
Now we go to this:
“Even with all those clues I gave you, you still can’t figure it out!!"~Bob(RDS)
So it can’t be figured out, but later it can be with a few clues.
But only moments later we have this:
“Well, I will try to make it short for you, It has to do with Leveling the playing field in World Trade and pushing for World Peace!! And, raising the standard of living in 3rd world countries!!"~Bob(RDS)
So tell my Bob. Should I eat everything on my plate because there are children starving in Africa, just like our mothers used to tell us? Will that help them?
Got to go Bob. I have to eat so that I can create a level playing field and World Peace.
R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse
R E M E M B E R
J A C K S O N V I L L E
T E X A S
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse
Alex in Ontario, Canada
Monday, March 17 at 05:27 AM
It has to do with Leveling the playing field in World Trade and pushing for World Peace!! And, raising the standard of living in 3rd world countries!!”
Did you rip that off from a Miss America contestant, RDS?
Ken V in Texas
Monday, March 17 at 06:33 AM
Ken V: Or perhaps the contestant for Junior Miss America last year,who provided all of us with her riveting views on the importance of schoolmaps in the realm of achieving world peace?
ddrb in
Monday, March 17 at 11:37 AM
Alex,
“So it can’t be figured out, but later it can be with a few clues.”
Apparently, you can’t even figure it out WITH clues, so you say, ‘If I can’t figure it out, it can’t be figured out’!!
Do you understand the quote, “Give a man a fish and he can eat for today, teach a man to fish and he can eat for the rest of his life”? Foreign Aid has been the fish we have been giving countries, Trade is the teaching we are giving other countries!! Can you ever have World Peace, with enemies? Or, do you need friends to get to the goal of World Peace? Russia was our enemy, now they are our friend, China is working towards becoming our friend!! How many people would have thought the Berlin Wall would ever be torn down? Funny, but when you treat people ‘nice’, they have a tendancy to treat you ‘nice’ back!! Why do you think Canada and the U.S. get along, because we have trade barriers or free trade? What would happen if the U.S. stopped trading with Canada, to keep companies producing ONLY in America?
“So tell my Bob. Should I eat everything on my plate because there are children starving in Africa, just like our mothers used to tell us? Will that help them? “
Funny you said that, because that is exactly correct, guess that is why your mother was smarter than you are!! Less waste of food here, means there would be more food for the people in Africa!! Instead of throwing that excess in the trash, trade it for products made in Africa!! Besides, if we take a little less on our plate to begin with, maybe people wouldn’t be so obese in North America!!
Ken V,
“Did you rip that off from a Miss America contestant, RDS?”
Right, snide remarks will fix everything!! Wasn’t it you who posted, “If you’re not part of the solution, you are part of the problem”, how can the problem be fixed with snide remarks, from people like you?
ddrb,
“importance of schoolmaps in the realm of achieving world peace?”
Right, education has nothing to do with achieving world peace, ignorance is so much better!!
RDS in
Monday, March 17 at 01:58 PM
Alex,
BTW: You missed your mother’s clues as well, what she meant, was for you to be thankful for what you had and shouldn’t waste it, unlike the people in Africa, who were starving!! Maybe someday, you will start to figure thing out!! Did she also tell you to shut off the lights when you were not in a room? That was another clue, not to waste energy because producing energy pollutes the atmosphere, guess your mother was pretty smart and ahead of her time!! Too bad that you don’t GET IT!!
RDS in
Monday, March 17 at 02:13 PM
Hey Bob(RDS). Thanks for the mumble jumble of words. :-)
On a lighter note you make me laugh with all your reasoning.
I hope you don’t take yourself too seriously. I don’t.
Later
R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse
R E M E M B E R
J A C K S O N V I L L E
T E X A S
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse
Alex in Ontario, Canada
Monday, March 17 at 02:45 PM
Alex,
“Hey Bob(RDS). Thanks for the mumble jumble of words”
Thanks for proving that you haven’t a clue as to what is going on in the world!! Maybe had you paid attention to your mother while you were growing up, you might be able to understand simple concepts!! Sorry those simple concepts fly right over your head!! But, then again didn’t I say at the start, that you’d never understand?
RDS in
Tuesday, March 18 at 12:18 AM
Thanks for proving that you haven’t a clue as to what is going on in the world!! Maybe had you paid attention to your mother while you were growing up, you might be able to understand simple concepts!! Sorry those simple concepts fly right over your head!! But, then again didn’t I say at the start, that you’d never understand?~Bob(RDS)
Instead of just spewing off at the mouth, why don’t you explain you so called Act 2?
R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse
R E M E M B E R
J A C K S O N V I L L E
T E X A S
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse
Alex in Ontario, Canada
Tuesday, March 18 at 04:18 PM
Alex,
“Instead of just spewing off at the mouth, why don’t you explain you so called Act 2”
First, it is not MY Act 2!! Second, what makes you think that you would understand it, if you can’t even understand what I’ve told you already? Well, here’s a short summary, even though I don’t know why I’m wasting my time!!
First, instead of giving billions in foreign aid, we encourage countries to produce products that we will buy from them!! As the trade increases their workers wages increase, to a point where they come close to U.S. wages over time and the people see that this is good for them!! Also, they can then afford to buy products from OUR countries, increasing our exports!!
Next, like Japan did, they increase their quality and eventually build plants in the U.S. and Canada (like Hundi, Honda, BMW, Kia, Toyota and many others have done) thus creating more jobs HERE!!
As trade increases between countries, other countries see the benefits and start doing the same thing!! And, as more countries trade with each other, they become more dependant and friendly, and less likely to fight with each other (Less wars)!!
The money saved from not having to give out foreign aid and a smaller military presence around the world, would be money that we could use for ‘better’ purposes here!!
As for the ‘pain’ I mentioned, you are already seeing it, lowering the ‘standard of living’ here, by bringing wage levels down (Auto companies, airlines, etc. cutting back on labor), lower ‘dollar’ value and housing values going down (housing credit problem)!! The ‘gain’, is the return of jobs from other countries as wages level across the world, profits from U.S. companies building in other countries and more foreign investment,(already happening), in our countries, as the ‘Global Economy’ gets more stable!! Also, living conditions get ‘better’ for people around the world, by increasing their incomes (see Vietnam, S.Korea, India, etc., where this is already taking effect)!!
Now that is just a summary, the whole picture is much more complicated!!
RDS in
Wednesday, March 19 at 12:44 AM
RDS:I use double exclamation points for a personal reason, not to express emotion!!
RDS in
Monday, March 17 at 01:25 AM
Just a simple observation. I cannot find one use of a period in your above posts ,at the end of sentence.,only double exclamation points. Is your keyboard in need of repair? Is that what all the repetitive !! is all about?
ddrb in
Wednesday, March 19 at 11:28 AM
ddrb,
The fact that you noticed my double exclamation points in place of periods, shows that my ‘personal reasons’ are working!! No, my keyboard is working just fine, see............!!
RDS in
Wednesday, March 19 at 12:06 PM
RDS: Thanks for the feedback. But just out of sheer curiousity,If a LACK of emotion is !!, how would ACTUAL emotion be expressed -what keyboard key would be used?
ddrb in
Wednesday, March 19 at 04:03 PM
ddrb,
Triple ezclamation points!! Two for my ‘reason’ and one for the ‘emotion’!! No special keyboard, just another key stroke!!
RDS in
Wednesday, March 19 at 11:53 PM
RDS: Thanks for the heads up on what to look for in the future!! BTW, the period key must feel as though it is a victim of discrimination,or is it discernment?
ddrb in
Thursday, March 20 at 09:20 AM
P.S.-And I would venture to guess that it is not mere chance that you put reason(!!) before emotion(!!!). Am I correct on this assumption?
ddrb in
Thursday, March 20 at 09:24 AM
ddrb,
Correct, I always put REASON before EMOTION, because I have found in the past, that most decisions made on EMOTION, usually turn out to be WRONG!! EMOTION could cause you to take in a homeless person, but you might regret it, when you find your valuables missing!!
RDS in
Thursday, March 20 at 12:18 PM
RDS: And emotion could cause a decent person to take pity on someone like you,RDS.
ddrb in
Thursday, March 20 at 05:11 PM
BTW: Isn’t emotion the BASIS for greed?
ddrb in
Friday, March 21 at 11:25 AM
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