Wal-Mart Shuts Down Unionized Store in Weyburn, Saskatchewan…

go for the sit in strike guys
it worked in chicago
it will work for you

Hufffington Post,Jonathan Tasini, December 10, 2008 | 10:19 AM (EST)"Boycott McDonald’s: Every Big Mac Eaten Attacks Workers”


McDonald’s really knows how to celebrate liberty and justice. On the eve of the international recognition Human Rights Day, McDonald’s announced it will launch a massive campaign to defeat the Employee Free Choice Act. So, let’s respond in kind: boycott McDonald’s.

As a reminder, the right to form a union is an internationally guaranteed right, inscribed in the UN charter via the International Labor Organization’s declarations:

All workers and all employers have the right freely to form and join groups for the promotion and defence of their occupational interests. This basic human right goes together with freedom of expression. It is the basis of democratic representation and governance. Those concerned need to be able to exercise their right to influence matters that directly concern them. In other words, their voice needs to be heard and taken into account~~~~~~~~~NOTE: Today is Human Rights Day. Exercise your freedom of choice to NOT shop WalMart or McDonald’s,but,please DO go over to Huff Po to read the ENTIRE article,well worth the trip.

ddrb, We have a basic human right to join a union???  Are you kidding???  Is it then a basic human right to choose who you hire to work for you?  Is it a basic human right to decide how much you are willing to pay your own employees?

Although I will not bother reading the Huff Po article I will not be shopping at Walmart today (my wife did the shopping lastnight) and I will not be eating at McDonalds today or any other day.  McDonalds is gross.

“McDonalds is gross."~Big Tex in Rogers

Walmart is gross and a low life company.
That is their legacy.

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse

R E M E M B E R
J A C K S O N V I L L E
T E X A S
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse

R E M E M B E R
G A T I N E A U
Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse

Apparently if you’re not 100% anti-Walmart your comments are removed...way to go freedom of choice police.

“Apparently if you’re not 100% anti-Walmart your comments are removed...way to go freedom of choice police."~Nick in MO

Apparently if you’re not 100% anti-workers rights your job at Walmart is gone. So much for Walmarts heavy handed tactics.

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse

R E M E M B E R
J A C K S O N V I L L E
T E X A S
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse

R E M E M B E R
G A T I N E A U
Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse

http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/2008/12/10/wal-mart-weyburn.html

Sask. mayor worried Wal-Mart will close unionized store
CBC News
The mayor of a southeastern Saskatchewan community is worried the area’s biggest retailer could close, following a decision by the province’s labour board allowing employees to unionize.

In a 71-page decision dated Dec. 4, the Saskatchewan Labour Relations Board approved a request to certify the Wal-Mart in Weyburn. All employees, except pharmacy, office staff and department managers, are affected.

Wal-Mart was criticized after it closed a store shortly after employees unionized in Jonquière, Que., in 2005, a move the company continues to blame on poor performance by the store.

Now, concerns are being raised about the future of the outlet in Weyburn, a city with a population of about 9,400.

“We’re very concerned about losing a major retailer in our community,” Weyburn Mayor Debra Button said. “We worked too hard to get the Wal-Mart here … If the decision by Wal-Mart is to close the store, we’ll certainly be feeling that.”

Both Button and Weyburn-Big Muddy MLA Dustin Duncan said they have received phone calls from residents worried about the future of the store. Button said she has written the CEO of Wal-Mart Canada to ask about the company’s intentions.

Wal-Mart Canada said it will appeal the ruling to unionize, pointing out that many of the employees who signed union cards no longer work at the Weyburn store.

“The fact that you’ve got a store now with 104 associates … and only 29 of them were even there at the time of the union’s application, really speaks to the fact that it would be a bit of a stretch to assume that there is widespread support for that store for this union,” said Andrew Pelletier, spokesman for Wal-Mart Canada.

Changes to Saskatchewan’s Trade Union Act this year made it a requirement that a secret ballot vote be held, open to all employees in the proposed bargaining unit, before a union can be certified.

Paul Meneima, president of the United Food and Commercial Workers Union Local 1400, said the decision to unionize the Weyburn store fits with the pre-2008 act, which allowed for union certifications when 50 per cent of employees, plus one, signed union cards.

Meneima stressed that the majority of employees wanted the union at the time of the application, but said workers have the right to seek decertification of the union if they wish. He said he expects Wal-Mart to delay negotiations of a collective agreement using the courts as long as possible.

The UFCW and Wal-Mart have been trying to negotiate a collective agreement in Ste-Hyacinthe, Que., Canada’s only other unionized Wal-Mart, for almost four years.

The decision to unionize the Weyburn Wal-Mart came after almost five years of legal wrangling. The UFCW applied for certification on April 14, 2004. During labour board hearings, some employees made claims that the union intimidated them into signing union cards. The board dismissed those claims, saying there was no evidence.

Anthony Bianco, a writer for Business Week and author of The Bully of Bentonville: How the High Cost of Everyday Low Prices is Hurting America, said the unionization of the Weyburn store has significance, not only for Canada, but also for North America.

“Wal-Mart has always offered stiff resistance to any attempts to organize,” said Bianco, pointing out that the UFCW “basically gave up trying to organize in the United States in 2003.”

Bianco said Wal-Mart is worried that by having a store with union members, it will “entice” other workers across North America to organize.

“There’s no doubt that Wal-Mart recognizes that, and that’s why they fight so hard to thwart the efforts of their employees to get a union,” said Meinema.

The UFCW is awaiting labour board decisions to unionize Wal-Mart stores in the Saskatchewan communities of North Battleford and Moose Jaw.

Apparently if you’re not 100% anti-Walmart your comments are removed...

WAL*MARTWATCH has a history of problems with comments made by people named ‘Nick’. Maybe if you changed it to St. Nick your posts might be unexpurgated.

My answer to your “freedom of choice police” whine is to refer you to the bottom of this page, and I quote:

WalmartWatch.com reserves the right, in its sole discretion, to remove or refuse to post blog comments.

“As a reminder, the right to form a union is an internationally guaranteed right, inscribed in the UN charter via the International Labor Organization’s declarations:

All workers and all employers have the right freely to form and join groups for the promotion and defence of their occupational interests. This basic human right goes together with freedom of expression. It is the basis of democratic representation and governance. Those concerned need to be able to exercise their right to influence matters that directly concern them. In other words, their voice needs to be heard and taken into account.

Workers and employers can set up, join and run their own organisations without interference from the State or one another. Of course, they have to respect the law of the land - but the law of the land, in turn, must respect the principles of freedom of association. These principles cannot be set aside for any sector of activities or group of workers.

The right freely to run their own activities means that workers’ and employers’ organisations can independently determine how they best wish to promote and defend their occupational interests. This covers both long-term strategies and action in specific circumstances, including recourse to strike and lock out. They can independently affiliate to international organisations and cooperate within them....."~~~~~Hufffington Post,Jonathan Tasini, December 10, 2008 “Boycott McDonald’s: Every Big Mac Eaten Attacks Workers”~~~~~~~NOTE:The link to the ILO[International Labor Organization] is included , which delineates the precise verbiage and further particulars . The blog posts are interesting,too.

Big Tex-

Yes, whether you agree or not, you have the right to join a union.  This right was a necessity to keep the employers from keeping labor in the US “slave labor”.  Study your history, those of you who do not like the unions have THEM to thank for the 8 hour work day, ( In 1890, when the government first tracked workers’ hours, the average workweek for full-time manufacturing employees was 100 hours and 102 hours for building tradesmen.) overtime after 40 hours, OSHA (the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers was started because too 1 out of every 3 electricians were dying on the job, and the employers didn’t seem to care.), paid vacations, paid holidays, sick leave, the National Labor Relations Board (Your avenue to go down if your rights are violated in the workplace).  If you enjoy ANY of these benefits, they came about as the result of unions, NOT the generosity of employers.  Unions fought long and hard for these, and union workers AND non-union workers benefit from them.  Working conditions for ALL are better because of unions.

In the absence of unions, workers do not have an established mechanism for informing employers of grievances about working conditions, wages, or other aspects of the employment relationship. If a single worker were to complain, the employer might respond by demoting or firing the worker. Nonunion workers typically register their dissatisfaction by “voting with their feet”—that is, by leaving the firm. Because unions give workers a recognized channel for airing grievances, labor turnover is lower in unionized firms. Collective bargaining thus leads to a more stable workforce.

“If I were to go to work in a factory, the first thing I would do would be to join a union.” - Frankin D. Roosevelt

Also if you are interested......

http://www.nlrb.gov/about_us/overview/national_labor_relations_act.aspx

Details the National Labor Relations Act.  YOUR and the employers Federal RIGHTS.  It isn’t just an International right.  It is a legislated right in the United States.  This is where us pro-union types get the right to throw around the terms “illegal” and “unfair labor practices.” We are not being judgemental, we are referring to the RIGHTS of the employee.

Alex,

“During labour board hearings, some employees made claims that the union intimidated them into signing union cards. The board dismissed those claims, saying there was no evidence.”

I guess in Canada, a person’s claiming Wal-Mart is ‘bad’, is accepted, but, if a person claims the union was ‘bad’, it is dismissed!!

“The fact that you’ve got a store now with 104 associates … and only 29 of them were even there at the time of the union’s application, really speaks to the fact that it would be a bit of a stretch to assume that there is widespread support for that store for this union”

Shouldn’t those 104 employees they have now be the ones who say whether or not they want the union, not, 75 employees that no longer work there?

“pointing out that the UFCW “basically gave up trying to organize in the United States in 2003”

Right!!  Then what is this site and WakeUpWalMart all about?

Wal-Mart start paying,

“Yes, whether you agree or not, you have the right to join a union.”

But, do you also have the right NOT to join a union?  Not if the union sets up ‘closed shop’ status, you either join the union or quit, no matter how long you have worked for the company ‘before’ it became unionized, even if you ‘voted’ against the union!!  Guess you LOSE your ‘rights’ in that senerio!!

RDS-

Ever hear of being fair shared?

Just out of curiosity, I wonder how many of the 75 employees no longer working there were fired for supporting the union, or harassed, or threatened into quitting.  I know, I know I am going out on a limb here because there are no documented cases of walmart engaging in these practices.  Sarcasm intended!

Even if Walmart doesn’t close it down the union will run it into the ground.  Just look at the big three.  The UAW would rather risk their employees losing their jobs than have them lose a little bit of their $30 an hour.  I’m sure when the workers are in the unemployment line in a few months they’ll be second guessing the UAW, although I’m guessing a lot of them have already lost their ability to think for themselves and question the union.

Daye-

Do you really think the govt. will let the “BIG 3” fail....Do you think that Bush himself will let that be his legacy.

Well if they’re counting on that they’re even worse.  Unions condemn Walmart for taking tax breaks from the government but have no problem taking $14 billion from tax payers so they can keep making $30 an hour.  It’s sad that Walmart workers supposedly barely making ends meet have to have their hard earned money taxed to give the UAW wokers overinflated wages and lifetime insurance.

Tell us all, just how does tax money subsidize Wal-Mart?  Does the government write a check (using taxpayers money) to Wal-Mart?

I knew I could get laugh here

WallStreet in
Saturday, December 06 at 05:42 PM~~~~~~~~NOTE: Dave, WalMart apologists here contend that WalMart does NOT get tax breaks from the government. Can you explain?

I find the ultimat irony is......everything Bush did in his entire 8 years has been anti-worker.  One of his last acts is to be to actually help them.

So let me get this straight, The “Big 3” were an economically company up until the housing crisis brought down the banking industry and Wall Street?  Oil was at a height of $150 a barrel.  Gas around here cost $4.00 a gallond.  People are losing their homes and jobs.  And YOU expect them to go out and buy a NEW car? 
There is way more than UAW contracts involved in this case, BUT the right anti-union crowd has a public whipping boy.  Where were the wage concessions for Wall Street CEO’s, the reorginization proposals ensuring THEIR profitability?  You don’t see the double standard here?
How much money would they have right now, if the Republicans didn’t spend so much time opposing universal health care.  That would have cut their health expenses in half.  How about the fact that with 2 months of what we are spending in Iraq we could pay for universal health care, AND bail out the “Big 3”.

And with the tightening of the money in the banking market, even companies that aren’t having problems are having a hard time getting money.  They had NO CHOICE but to go to the government.  Where was the high horse with Wall Street.  It is a dog and pony show.  When all is said and done the auto industry will get the money....they will be profitable...and they will pay it back.  We wont ever see a penny from the Wall street bailout.

Saturday, December 06 at 05:42 PM~~~~~~~~NOTE: Dave, WalMart apologists here contend that WalMart does NOT get tax breaks from the government. Can you explain?

ddrb in
Friday, December 12 at 11:26 AM

Do you really want to know, or you one of posters that like to callnames and swear up and down you are right and very one else is wrong, that is way I stopped posting, I am not pro or con Wal mart I could care less.

When our office get stress we come here and read, today I am taking a very long lunch hour maybe until Monday morning

Wal-Mart start paying,

“Ever hear of being fair shared?”

Yeah, that’s a term unions use, to get money from EVERYBODY!!

“I wonder how many of the 75 employees no longer working there were fired for supporting the union, or harassed, or threatened into quitting.”

Even if that were true, what would that have to do with the people working there NOW?

“So let me get this straight, The “Big 3” were an economically company up until the housing crisis brought down the banking industry and Wall Street?”

Nobaody is arguing that the ‘Big 3’ automakers are in trouble, what the problem is, is WHY the UAW is ‘unwilling’ to “being fair shared” in solving those problems!!

“Where were the wage concessions for Wall Street CEO’s, the reorginization proposals ensuring THEIR profitability?  You don’t see the double standard here?”

So, you say they were WRONG, not to ask Wall Street CEO’sfor ‘concessions’, therefore, it would be WRONG to ask the UAW to do it, right?  Did you ever hear, that 2 WRONGS don’t make a right?

“How much money would they have right now, if the Republicans didn’t spend so much time opposing universal health care.  That would have cut their health expenses in half.  How about the fact that with 2 months of what we are spending in Iraq we could pay for universal health care”

First, universal healthcare and the war in Iraq, are not COMPANIES!!  Second, what do they have to do with each other?  As for Universal Healthcare, you are saying if the government taxpayers were to fund the programs, instead of the companies, then workers would be able to get more and the companies would be better off being ‘subsidized’ by the government!!

“And with the tightening of the money in the banking market, even companies that aren’t having problems are having a hard time getting money.”

Right, and how many of THEM are in Washington asking for a ‘bailout’?

“It is a dog and pony show.”

It sure is, and the taxpayer is the ‘dog’ and the UAW is the ‘pony’!!

“When all is said and done the auto industry will get the money....they will be profitable...and they will pay it back.”

Not if there is no change and things remain at the status quo!!  And, the UAW will be able to flaunt this as another WIN for them!!

ddrb,

Do you actually know the difference between a ‘tax break’ and a ‘subsidy’?

Do you actually know the difference between a ‘tax break’ and a ‘subsidy’?

RDS in

Do you? please explain

Wall Street ,as a whole and in general ,has not been inclined to answer questions regarding the “Bailout heist”,but then again,not many of substance were posed to them. Our “Wall Street “seems to want to” cut a deal “before giving us answers,i.e., we be polite and not offend his/her patrician sensibilities. Well, here’s one Wall Streeter who will have no such guarantees.To wit:Bernard Madoff arrested over alleged Ponzi scheme: WSJ - MarketWatchDec 11, 2008 ... SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch)—Bernard Madoff, who founded Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities, was arrested by Federal Bureau of ...
www.marketwatch.com/news/story/Bernard-Madoff-arrested-over-alleged/story.aspx?guid={5D6DD5E3-B670… - 21 hours ago - Similar pages
Bernard Madoff arrested over alleged $50 billion fraud | ReutersDec 12, 2008 ... NEW YORK (Reuters) - Bernard Madoff, a quiet force on Wall Street for decades, was arrested and charged on Thursday with allegedly running a ...
feeds.reuters.com/~r/reuters/topNews/~3/AQzdfY5uKjs/idUSTRE4BA7IK20081212 - 17 hours ago - Similar pages~~~~NOTE: According to one report ,Madoff had been head of NASDAQ.

RE: Bailout, I do not know if they should or should not I have look at both sides, if we do not do you realize the impact of this for very job lost there are 12 people affected such as local Restaurants suppliers to the big 3 How can we bail them out when the money given them will be gone by March the debt they owe each month

As far as letting then go into chapter 11 the any thing they can do is liquidate then property taxes will be lost States will feel the back lash for years. We will over burden the Welfare system that it will collapse

Most people live for the day what they bring in if you cut some ones salary by half what will happen house foreclosed on cars re-pro and bankruptcy like we have never seen

Yes I know most of you will say were its there fault that does not help any thing the problem is still there

As far as your article about Madcoff , fraud has been going on on Wall Street since the beginning of time, do you know how many small time crooks have been caught, he is the big fish so it makes news, like any other business you have fraud and theft I am not defending him just stating a fact OK

Corporate Income Tax and the Public’s Need to Know
Income tax records of public corporations must be made public.

Kansas City Chapter Strives to Preempt Wasteful Taxpayer Subsidies
New study shows development subsidies are helping major corporations and wealthy districts, not the poor neighborhoods used to justify them.

Transnational Corporations Dodging Taxes Through “Transfer Pricing”
While some corporations evade billions of dollars in taxes annually, taxpayers pay for the shortfall

Cracking Down on Corporate Tax Evasion
This story from Montana is repeated in many states. When global corporations evade taxes, law-abiding independent businesses suffer as well as taxpayers.

Poll Says 90% of Americans Believe Big Business Has Too Much Power
But will meaningful change follow?

The Corporate Code for Responsibility: A Critical Analysis

Inherent Rules of Corporate Behavior

Talking Democracy (interview with ReclaimDemocracy.org’s director)

Don’t Let This Happen in Your State! Beware of “Model Corporation Acts” designed to to usurp democratic authority over corporations.

Why Is Killing for Capital Not a Capital Crime?~~~~~NOTE: These are topics of discussion on the website Reclaim Democracy.org-whose site should be on everyone’s favorite list who believe that government is for and by the people,not for and by the corporatacracy of corporate person"hoods."

Wallstreet,

“Do you actually know the difference between a ‘tax break’ and a ‘subsidy’?

RDS in

Do you? please explain”

A ‘tax break’, is the government saying “YOU don’t have to pay as much as we were going to charge you”!!  In other words, Party A has some money and Party B charges LESS!!  It is nothing like a loan!!

A ‘subsidy’, is giving something like land, services, or something of ‘value’ to a entity, with an expectation of getting more in return, than was expended!!  In other words, Party B has something and gives it to Party A, expecting to get more in return, for the public interest!!  It is kind of like a loan!!

If the government ‘lowers’ your tax rate, or increases your deductions, do you consider the amount less that you will pay, because of the ‘tax break’, a ‘subsidy’?  A ‘subsidy’ gives you something, a ‘tax break’ takes less from you!!

The conceptual argument against tax breaks being subsidies is that tax breaks let you keep your money, but subsidies are government handouts. But is there really much difference between the government saying “Give us $X, or $X-500 if you own a dog” and the goverment saying “Give us $X. If you own a dog, we’ll give you $500 back”?

http://www.deanesmay.com/2008/08/12/tax-breaks-subsidies/

The difference is Walmart still pays taxes just less than they would, but I highly doubt the big three will pay over $14 billion in taxes this year so that they end up paying in more than they get. 

“Dave, WalMart apologists here contend that WalMart does NOT get tax breaks from the government. Can you explain? “

I don’t think I have ever seen anyone say that Walmart didn’t get tax breaks.

And the banking/insurance industry will pay $700 billion in taxes?

What does the banking industry getting a bailout have to do with Walmart or the big three?  Quit changing the subject.

A bailout is a bailout.  You can give a bailout to the banking industry with no questions asked and no “strings attached” and not ask the CEO’s or ANYBODY to give up a penny, BUT when the Big 3 come asking for 2.5% of what was given to the banks they have to make all the concessions.  This is just the Republicans trying to break the unions.  Notice it didn’t happen, and they are going to get their money anyway, because Bush doesn’t want his legacy to be the failure of the Big 3.

The ironic thing is the BANKS are the reason the economy is in the shape it is in.  And pay attention 700 billion to them is just a start.  That is the lowest possible accounting number that they could project.  When the numbers actually come in I am willing to bet they will be much, much higher.

Where is their organizational plan to guarantee profitiblity?

The two are interchangeable.

Wal-Mart start paying,

“A bailout is a bailout.”

Not true, the banks deal with MONEY, and the financial stability of the country, which is also the governments job!!  It is NOT the governments job to choose which “businesses” will survive and which will fail!!  If it was Wal-Mart that was failing, and asking for a ‘bridge loan/bailout’ would you support a ‘bailout’ for them? 

“The ironic thing is the BANKS are the reason the economy is in the shape it is in.”

That’s funny, the anti people here, say that Wal-Mart is the reason the economy is in the shape it is in!!

“This is just the Republicans trying to break the unions.”

Are you saying that the Republicans ‘forced’ the Big 3 to come to Washington to ask for a ‘bailout’, so they could ‘break the unions’?

“And pay attention 700 billion to them is just a start.”

And, that $14 billion the automakers are asking for, is just the start as well, they have admitted that they will be back for more next year and maybe the year after, as they don’t expect things to turn around until 2011!!

“The ironic thing is the BANKS are the reason the economy is in the shape it is in.”

What the hell were you smoking when you made that statement?

The economy is in the shape it is in, because in 2002 under the liberal democrat Bill ( I swear I didnt have sex with that woman!) Clinton, The community reinvestment act was put into law, This “Liberal” law FORCED banks to loan money for mortgages, to people who did not qualify for loans, without the law. 5.5 MILLION home loans were forced onto banks with this “LIBERAL” law. When the borrower/homeowner could not make their mortgage payments, they stayed in the home(s) payment free as long as they could, then walked away from their financially responsibilities. ( These are the same people the Liberal- Obama wants to spread some wealth to!)

With 5.5 million homes not being paid for, they became vacant- via foreclosures! This caused the housing market crash, and everything else followed, All courtesy of Bill (I lied to the Grand Jury) Clinton and the Community Reinvestment act. IE: LIBERAL DEMOCRATS caused and are to BLAME for the mess the economy is in!

Soon to follow- excuses, spin and total B/S to be posted by Liberals. Things such as, “I smoked ,marijuana, but never inhaled” or “We thought we were doing the right thing” (politically correct) “its not our fault it didnt turn out the way we planed” or other such hallucinations by these Liberals who cannot be trusted!

You might want to pace yourself a little, Mark. You’ve got at least four years to spin your right wingnut bilge and you wouldn’t want to wear it out.

Besides, you’ve totally distorted the size and effect of the Community Reinvestment Act on the global economic meltdown.

“LIBERAL DEMOCRATS” have kept your seat on the back bench warm since ‘94. Take your seat and speak when spoken to.

Live Better In Cheap Underwear

P.S. The election is over!

Mark-

And the banks weren’t responsible for inflating the appraisals and putting people not only in houses they couldn’t afford in the first place, but OVERVALUED houses they couldn’t afford in the first place.

New Federal Policy Extends Liability For Inflated Appraisals To Mortgage Lenders
Published: August
by Kenneth R. Harney

......."Appraisers-- who complain that inflated and “see no evil” valuations often are the result of pressure exerted on them by lenders--cheered the new move by the government. Don Kelly, vice president of the largest appraisal organization in the U.S., the Appraisal Institute, said “they’re doing the right thing” in exposing lenders to financial liability for bad appraisals.

Kelly said inflated valuations may allow real estate deals to close, but “they are inherently anti-consumer.” The Institute has for years urged Congress and the federal government to crack down on lender pressure, threats and interference in appraisals.

“By sharing the burden (of legal liablity),” Kelly told Realty Times, “lenders are going to be less likely to tell appraisers to “hit the value” needed to close a sale or mortgage.”

the whole article is here.......http://realtytimes.com/rtpages/20040809_inflatedapps.htm

While the Community Reinvestment Act put some bad mortgages out there......But this appraisal inflation is a common practice. Bankers can get an appraisal to come in at whatever they need it to come in at to close the loan.

What about Mortgage Brokers, they should be the picture in the dictionary next to predatory lender.  (I understand, they do not actually lend.) However, they ACTIVELY seek out a company, who for an extremely high interest rate, will give the “unloanable” a loan.

The banks PREY on the “bad credit, bad investment” crowd.  That is where their profits come from.  DUH!!!  Do you pay 23% on your credit cards? Or are you at 6% like I am?  Do you know why that is, you are not considered a bad risk, and you pay your bills.  I pay my credit cards in full every month.  What does the credit card company do, RAISE MY LIMIT.  They want a balance, they want the interest.  That is where they make their money.  The same with the mortgages.  Banks who do not lend money, do not make money.  PERIOD.  Their source of income is investments, loans, and fees.

Bloomberg Lawsuit Against Federal Reserve For Not Disclosing ...The Federal Reserve is refusing to identify the recipients of almost $2 trillion of emergency loans from American taxpayers or the troubled assets the ...
hubpages.com/hub/Bloomberg-Lawsuit-Against-Federal-Reserve-For-Not-Disclosing-Emergency-Loans - 23k - Cached - Similar pages

Latest update on Bloomberg suit against Fed | Credit WritedownsDec 13, 2008 ... Latest update on Bloomberg suit against Fed. Back in November, Bloomberg News was forced to sue the Federal Reserve to gain greater ...
www.creditwritedowns.com/2008/12/latest-update-on-bloomberg-suit-against-fed.html - 84k - Cached - Similar pages~~~~~~~~~~~~~~NOTE: I am suprised that no one here has mentioned the fact that the Federal Reseve refuses to come clean about the recipients of the taxpayer largesse. Where is the public outcry? Capitol Hill was all over the UAW and Detroit.All that was missing was a proctologist,but it toook Bloomberg to file a FOIA an a lawsuit to try to get info. What’s wrong with this picture?

Boo: Is it just coincidence that creditor sounds a LOT like predator?

You guys did a fine job of changing the subject from the unionized big three wanting $14 billion.  I think we had all these debates over the financial industry months ago.  I guess from all this we have found out that a unized get $14 billion in bailout is fine and the attention should be taken away from them, but a non unionized company getting a couple million in tax breaks for bringing extra tax revenue and jobs to an area is a bad thing and needs to be brought to everyones attention.

Wal-Mart’s Hidden Cost

The typical Wal-Mart supercenter with 200 workers costs the American taxpayers $420,750 a year

in tax-supported subsidies, including earned income tax credits, housing subsidies, food stamps, health insurance (Medicaid), etc.

--Congressman George Miller (D-Ca) 2004

Source: Concord Monitor

Congress wanted to guarantee that the $700 billion financial bailout would limit the eye-popping pay of Wall Street executives, so lawmakers included a mechanism for reviewing executive compensation and penalizing firms that break the rules.

But at the last minute, the Bush administration insisted on a one-sentence change to the provision, congressional aides said. The change stipulated that the penalty would apply only to firms that received bailout funds by selling troubled assets to the government in an auction, which was the way the Treasury Department had said it planned to use the money.

Now, however, the small change looks more like a GIANT LOOPHOLE, according to lawmakers and legal experts. In a reversal, the Bush administration has not used auctions for any of the $335 billion committed so far from the rescue package, nor does it plan to use them in the future. Lawmakers and legal experts say the change has effectively REPEALED the ONLY ENFORCEMENT MECHANISM in the law dealing with LAVISH PAY for TOP executives.

“The flimsy executive-compensation restrictions in the original bill are now ALL but GONE,” said Sen. Charles Grassley, a Republican from Iowa and ranking member of the Senate Finance Committee.

Read more: http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID…

Dave-

“but a non unionized company getting a couple million in tax breaks for bringing extra tax revenue and jobs to an area is a bad thing and needs to be brought to everyones attention.”

And the UAW doesn’t bring any jobs or tax revenue?

From The Detroit News
Wednesday, November 19, 2008
Auto collapse would ripple across country
Ron French, Rob Snell and Alisa Priddle / The Detroit News

Twenty-seven states would lose more than 10,000 jobs each if the domestic U.S. auto industry collapses, with triple that number of jobs likely lost when including parts suppliers, internal documents from the carmakers show.
While the traditional Midwest manufacturing states would be by far the hardest hit, an analysis by The Detroit News of data obtained from General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC paint a grim portrait of the economic tidal wave that could spread across the country if Detroit’s Big Three don’t survive their current financial woes.

CEOs of the automakers and the president of the United Auto Workers received a skeptical reception in Washington on Tuesday from lawmakers who will decide whether to provide a proposed $25 billion bailout to the industry. Yet the home states of the majority of those congressmen would suffer debilitating job losses if Michigan’s automakers are allowed to go under.

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Connecticut, home of Sen. Chris Dodd, who gave automakers a tongue-lashing Tuesday, has 7,330 residents who work for GM, Ford or Chrysler, either for the companies themselves or for dealerships, according to The News’ analysis. Another estimated 14,000 are employed in auto parts manufacturing. There are roughly two auto parts workers for every Big Three employee, according to David Cole, chairman of the Center for Automotive Research in Ann Arbor.

Ford has 34 auto parts suppliers in Connecticut, for example; Chrysler has 37, and GM has 211.

While the automakers are often portrayed as a Michigan industry, more than half the states, ranging from the Atlantic to the Pacific and from the borders of Mexico and Canada, would lose more than 10,000 direct auto company and dealer jobs if the Big Three go under; with suppliers added, the number is likely to be more than 30,000 jobs in each of those states.

“People don’t realize the economic impact (of the auto industry),” Cole said. “Many of these companies are invisible in their communities. An electronics plant in California may make parts for numerous products, but their main customer may be the automakers. If the automakers are allowed to go under, suppliers lay off workers.”

Ford, for example, pumped $3.7 billion into the Kentucky economy in 2007 through purchases from suppliers in that state, according to a document obtained by the News from Ford. Alabama manufacturers got $2 billion from Ford; North Carolina, $771 million; Tennessee, $914 million.

A doomsday scenario would put 157,000 Michigan residents currently employed by the Big Three out of work, plus an estimated 300,000 more who work for auto suppliers.

That’s more than 10 percent of Michigan’s work force, even before spin-off jobs are considered.

While the impact of an auto industry collapse would be harshest on Michigan, every state would be scarred.

The Midwest would suffer the most. Ohio would lose 59,446 direct jobs, not including auto suppliers; Illinois, 39,115; Indiana, 36,126; Wisconsin, 23,111.

Other big losers would include Missouri and Florida, both with 30,000 direct auto jobs; New York with 33,000, Pennsylvania with 36,000 and Texas with 53,000.

While the number of auto supply workers tied to each automaker isn’t known, the number of supply companies is: GM has 1,169 suppliers in Illinois alone; 1,535 in Ohio; and 966 in New York. GM even has five suppliers in Hawaii.

Job losses at the automakers and auto suppliers would lead to others, according to a study conducted by Cole’s organization, which conducts research for the car industry.

A report released earlier this month estimated that nearly 3 million jobs would be lost in the United States in the first year after GM, Ford and Chrysler ceased to exist, with $60 billion lost in tax revenue.

Chrysler alone paid $167 million in taxes to the state of Michigan in 2007; $15 million to Ohio and Missouri; $5 million to Delaware........................

This isn’t JUST about bailing out union jobs!  You are just focusing on the assembly lines.  So you are happy the UAW guy is out of work, what about the guy who no longer has his $12/hr job making the parts for those vehicles?  No company no need for new parts, right?

Wal-Mart start paying,

“Do you pay 23% on your credit cards? Or are you at 6% like I am?  Do you know why that is, you are not considered a bad risk, and you pay your bills.  I pay my credit cards in full every month.”

And, the reason you pay your credit cards in full every month, is because you didn’t take advantage of those HIGHER LIMITS, you live within your means and don’t use ‘credit cars’ as a ‘money tree’!!  People who are a ‘bad risk’ deserve to pay ‘higher rates’, because if they default, it would be us, the responsible people, who would have to foot the bill for their irresponsibility!!

BTW:  If you own a home, is it being ‘foreclosed’ on?  Or, are you one of us, who bought your home based on what you actually could afford?  And, how did you manage to AVOID being sold a more EXPENSIVE home?

“And the UAW doesn’t bring any jobs or tax revenue?”

Yes, but, those same jobs and tax revenue could exist without the UAW!!

“So you are happy the UAW guy is out of work, what about the guy who no longer has his $12/hr job making the parts for those vehicles?”

Can you explain why the guy making parts only makes $12.00/hr, while the guy who assembles the parts makes $35.00/hr, why the difference?  Are the assemblers ‘better workers’ than the parts makers?  And, how much would a car cost, if all the $12/hr people were making $35/hr instead?  It is those $12/hr, people who keep the car prices somewhat affordable!!

“No company no need for new parts, right?”

As people would still need cars and trucks, without the Big 3, sales and jobs would just shift to the other automakers, who would still need the parts, at the SAME volume!!  I don’t know if you are old enough to remember American Motors, located in Milwaukee and Kenosha Wisconsin, but they went out of business and Chrysler just picked up their business!!

ddrb,

“in tax-supported subsidies, including earned income tax credits, housing subsidies, food stamps, health insurance (Medicaid), etc.”

These are all government programs, not Wal-Mart programs, so don’t blame Wal-Mart for people using them!!  The people who use them, would be using them whether they worked at Wal-Mart or not!!  If you are against ‘tax-supported subsidies’, complain to the government, not Wal-Mart!!  Wal-Mart has no control over WHO gets these subsidies, the government DOES!!

RDS: Your posts become more desperate and illogical everyday.

“And the UAW doesn’t bring any jobs or tax revenue? “

No the UAW doesn’t bring a significant number of jobs since they aren’t an employer. 

I actually have no problem with giving the big three some government loans, I just think that the UAW should give some concessions to help as well instead of putting all of the burden on the tax payers.  These companies were all in trouble before the current economic crisis the market meltdown just sped up the inevitable.  So in order to make the companies so they can be self-reliant again instead of needing more money constantly they need to change the way they do business, and part of that change has to be the workers giving up a little pay and some benefits.  Does someone on an assembly line doing a job anyone can be trained to do really deserve to make $30+ an hour?  Unions are quick to blame businesses moving overseas on companies like Walmart, but demanding that much money out of struggling companies like the car companies that absolutely cannot afford a strike is responsible for as many lost jobs as anything.

How many years in a row did the “Big 3” post multi billion dollar profits, even while paying those “excessive” contracts?

Scenario B:  You work for Widgets, Inc.

Widgets Inc. had 10 billion dollars in cash reserves.  The bought 1 billion shares of Gadgets, Inc. at the price of $10 each.  These stock skyrocket to $30 a share.  The CEO is praised as a genius.  Widgets now has assets valued at $30 billion.  They can borrow against these assets.  They borrow $15 billion and expand around the world.  Uh, oh!  Stock market crash Gadget Inc. stock drops to $2 a share.  Lenders are frantic.  Widget’s 15 billion dollar loan in unsecured.  They demand assets to guarantee thier loan.  All Widgets cash is tied up in opeational expenses.  Widget says the only way they can do this is to slash production expenses.  But, raw materials and utilities are a fixed cost.  The only variable is wages and benefits.  They announce all employee’s will go from $30/hr to $20/hr.  and their benefits will be cut in half.

Question #1:  Is it the employee’s fault the company is broke?

Question #2:  Should the employees take the pay cut?

Question #3:  What does Widget, Inc. care about its employees budgets.  Houses purchased on a budget of $30/hr. aren’t affordable on $20/hr., however mortages still have to be paid.

Question #4:  If CEO was genius before when everything went well, what happened did he get stupid overnight?

So if the worker wants to work, he has to take the paycut right?  When Widgets gets back on track, the employees were willing to work for $20 what is the incentive for them to bring them back up to the $30 they were previously making.

Is it the employee’s fault Widgets was in this problem in the first place, after all they could have worked for $6/hr to put them in line with the rest of the world.

ALL COMPANIES FINANCIAL PROBLEMS ARE NOT LABORS FAULT. 

Does your argument change if the employees at Widget are making $8/hr. under the same scenario.  Only exception being they are told new wages are $6/hr.

Sidebar:  Did you see H. L. Scotts sly smile when he was asked if HE was going to take over the UAW on MTP Sunday.  Now there would be a revolt.

Wal-Mart start paying,

“Question #1:  Is it the employee’s fault the company is broke?”

It is neither the companies, nor the employees fault!!  The company was just trying to expand to provide more jobs, for more workers!!  And, the company didn’t ‘cause’ the stock value to drop!!

“Question #2:  Should the employees take the pay cut?”

That depends on how much they want to save their jobs!!  It seems they were glad to take the raises when the ‘good times’ were there and ‘share in the wealth’, why shouldn’t they then be willing to ‘share in the pain’ as well?

“Question #3:  What does Widget, Inc. care about its employees budgets.  Houses purchased on a budget of $30/hr. aren’t affordable on $20/hr., however mortages still have to be paid.”

And, what do the employees care about the company’s budget?  Is it the company that caused you to buy the house you did?  Also, their bills have to be paid to keep the company running and you working!!  The alternative, is unemployment!!

“Question #4:  If CEO was genius before when everything went well, what happened did he get stupid overnight?”

The CEO, didn’t get ‘stupid’, the company just hit ‘bad times’, just like working people are in ‘bad times’ now!!

“So if the worker wants to work, he has to take the paycut right?”

What kind of logic, would think that a company that is ‘broke’, can continue to pay the ‘high wages’ they were paying before they went broke?  And, how come a company somehow deserves to ‘respect’ their employees, but the employees don’t need to ‘respect’ their company?

“ALL COMPANIES FINANCIAL PROBLEMS ARE NOT LABORS FAULT.”

No one said that, but, they might just be PART of the problem and part of the solution as well!!

“Sidebar:  Did you see H. L. Scotts sly smile when he was asked if HE was going to take over the UAW on MTP Sunday.”

It would be very interesting to see what would happen, if Lee Scott were to become the Auto-Czar!!

RDS-

“Does your argument change if the employees at Widget are making $8/hr. under the same scenario.  Only exception being they are told new wages are $6/hr. “

You didn’t answer this one.  It was at the bottom for a reason.  It was my summarizing point.  and it is this....

Do you look at it differently if the employees are minimum wage employees?

And the other senario wasn’t my way of blaming the management as many people will infer.  It is my way of pointing out that those that are blaming the UAW for the “Big 3’s” downfall, aren’t looking at the situation with open eyes.  It isn’t the UAW’s fault that the companies continued to make “gas guzzling SUV’s” when gas was $4 a gallon with no end in sight instead of more “gas friendly” vehicles.  That was a management decision.

Ironically, from everything I am hearing from the insiders in the automotive industry the new Chevy Volt, which I believe is due out next year, is supposed to be a much better eco-friendly vehicle than the Prius, as it uses NO gas. What would happen if Chevy “went under?”, would we have to wait another 4 years for that car?

“It would be very interesting to see what would happen, if Lee Scott were to become the Auto-Czar!! “

I have a feeling everyone who supports him, would find out what a “whore” he would be to his values.  He would cater to whatever side was paying him.  In this case the Democratic controlled government.  He wouldn’t be pressing his anti-union campaign as hard as he is at wal-mart or that position would be gone in a heartbeat.

I am not dillusional, these guys look out for number 1.  If it is in his interest to be anti-union at wal-mart, he is anti-union.  If it is in his interest to be pro-union in a Democrat nominated position, he will balme his anti-union stance on wal-mart policies.

Just my opinion.

Wal-Mart start paying,

“Does your argument change if the employees at Widget are making $8/hr. under the same scenario.  Only exception being they are told new wages are $6/hr.”

No, when a company is in trouble, it is EVERYONES interest to do what is necessary to SAVE the company or let it fail!!

“Do you look at it differently if the employees are minimum wage employees?”

No, I don’t believe in ARTIFICIAL ‘minimum wages’!!  I believe that people should be paid based on the ‘value’ of their labor!!

“It isn’t the UAW’s fault that the companies continued to make “gas guzzling SUV’s” when gas was $4 a gallon with no end in sight instead of more “gas friendly” vehicles.”

The point you fail to see, is that the auto companies WERE producing “gas friendly” vehicles, it was the ‘buyers’ who were purchasing the “gas guzzling’ SUV’s!!  You can only SELL, what the consumer WANTS to buy!!  Also, you can’t turn production around on a dime, it takes awhile!!  It takes about 3 years from drawing board to production for cars and trucks!!  Lastly, like Jane once said, a customer will go “gas friendly”, until the price of gas goes back down again, then they will again want “gas guzzlers”, we’ve seen that time and again!!

“That was a management decision.”

No, it’s a customer decision!!

“What would happen if Chevy “went under?”, would we have to wait another 4 years for that car?”

First, GM is not going UNDER, they may have to ‘change’, but ‘going under’ is just a scare tactic they are using to get money out of Washinton!!  Second, don’t you think that the other cars companies are working on ‘electric cars’?  Toyota has a ‘hydrogen’ car, that runs on WATER!! What’s really funny, is that we HAD ‘electric cars’ a long time ago, but they are calling it ‘NEW’ technology!!

“He would cater to whatever side was paying him.”

Maybe that is part of the reason most Republicans didn’t support the Car-Czar idea and wanted to leave it to a bankruptsy court restructure!!

Customers are faced with what is offered. WalMart ‘offers’ 80% Chinese made crap and WalMart wants to avoid/evade COOL (Country Of Origin Labeling). It is exclusively a WalMart management decision to displace American made products with those made overseas. Consumers are faced with little choice as WalMart destroys their previous community retail landscape with part time low wage quasi-jobs and Global Labor Arbitrage.

WalMart Christmas- Show your family love by burning your kids with cheap Chinese crap.

SDV,

Your CRAP is worse than anything Wal-Mart sells!!  If people didn’t want that Chinese stuff, why do they continue to buy it?  The fact that Wal-Mart sells 80% Chinese, should be a ‘great opportunity’ for other businesses to start up making and selling 100% American made products, but, WHY isn’t this happening?  Could it be, that Wal-Mart is giving people EXACTLY what they want, ‘low prices’?

All of your arguments have ‘holes’ in them, big enough to sail an aircraft carrier through!!

Face the facts: If people didn’t want to shop at Wal-Mart, they would go to Target, K-Mart or some small business (which would grow as people made the switch, Aldis and Dollar General are examples) or, they wouldnever abandon the places they originally shopped at, before Wal-mart came to town!!  And, if people didn’t want to work for Wal-Mart, they would find jobs elsewhere, not work for Wal-Mart for YEARS!!  It is the same thing that happened with the auto industry, Why is it that Toyota (Japanese) is growing faster than American GM, and Ford?  Foreign isn’t automatically CRAP!!  What ever happened to T.V.’s made by RCA, Zenith, and Curtis Mathis, if they were so much ‘better’ than foreign, why did people STOP buying them?

Your CRAP is worse than anything Wal-Mart sells!!

Whoa! That is a low blow!

quality fade: the deliberate and secret habit of widening profit margins through a reduction in the quality of materials.

RDS in
Are you really American?

RDS,

As a basic imbecile you are unable to reason why high quality American made products are displaced by foreign imports. Low wage Global Labor Arbitrage shut down vast American manufacturing and shifted these jobs, factories and incomes overseas. The ‘offering’ to the consumer was altered with imports and GM, Ford and WalMart all invested in foreign manufacturing to produce what is ‘offered’ to the American consumer. The Made in America label died from management decisions to contract out America’s manufacturing for monetary interest and at the expense of the American workforce and the rise of the internationalist business cult that has no nation state loyalty.

As a Christhater and ‘love of money’ fool RDS, you should at least appreciate the reality of what you worship and advocate. The Made in China American flag covering the bathroom window of your motorhome/trailer park/WalMart parking lot/vomit garden life should explain it to you on a day without your Elavil/Zoloft/ADD drugs.

WalMart Christmas- Show your family love by burning your kids with cheap Chinese crap.

SDV & RDS -

Am not!  Are too!  Am not!  Are too!  Am not!  Are too!  Am not!  Are too! 

If I wanted this discourse I would listen to my kids.

“As a Christhater and ‘love of money’ fool"-

So let me get this straight, ONLY Christians and poor people, are right?

I love money, it isn’t everything but you sure do eat better when you have it.  Does that make my views less important.

Make the argument about the point, not the individual.

Wal-Mart start paying<

“Make the argument about the point, not the individual.”

I was trying to make my point, but, SDV loves to throw around insults, his posts are full of them!!

As for the point, anytime labor costs exceed the amount at which a company can ‘compete’, there are only three ways to combat it and that is through outsourcing to where labor costs are lower, lower labor costs at home or modernize with automation and technology!!  Other than that, the only other way, is to get people to ‘ignore’ lower prices and diminish their buying power with higher prices, and that isn’t going to happen to any extent where it will be an impact!!

They say that the ‘middle class’ is disappearing, the truth is, there never was a ‘middle class’, all there was, was an upper lower class and a lower upper class, that they named the ‘middle class’!!  What we see happening, is the wage ‘gap’ between the upper and lower classes is widening to the point it appears the the so-called ‘middle class’ is disappearing!!  When one ‘factory worker’ is making $35.00/hr and another ‘factory worker’ is making $12.00/hr, a true ‘middle class’ ‘factory worker’ would be making about $23.50/hr!!  And, everytime the $35.00/hr employees gets a 3% raise ($1.05/hr) and his $12.00/hr counterpart gets a 3% raise ($.36/hr), the gap widens by another $.69/hr or $1435.20 a year (2080x$.69=$1435.20)!!  The $12.00/hr person would need a 9% raise just to stay at an even gap, with the $35.00/hr person who got a 3% raise!!  This is the reason they say “the rich get richer and the poor get poorer”!!

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“I have a feeling everyone who supports him, would find out what a “whore” he would be to his values.”

Wal-Mart start paying your way! in Baraboo, WI
Tuesday, December 16 at 09:31 AM

“Make the argument about the point, not the individual.”

Wal-Mart start paying your way! in Baraboo, WI
Thursday, December 18 at 12:44 PM

A bit difficult to separate the sin from the sinner at times isn’t it Baraboo, WI?

Sam Walton again on exploitation of people-

Wal-Mart founder Sam Walton once said, “I pay low wages. I can take advantage of that. We’re going to be successful, but the basis is a very low-wage, low-benefit model of employment.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Wal-Mart#_note-
iswalmartgood

“Is Wal-Mart Good for America?” PBS. November 16, 2004. Retrieved on February 24, 2007.

WalMart- Money first is our religion. That is why killing petty theft suspects is not such a big deal for us.

“The Shepherd drives the wolf from the sheep’s throat, for which the sheep thanks the shepherd as a liberator, while the wolf denounces him for the same act as a destroyer of liberty.” Abraham Lincoln

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SDV-

““I have a feeling everyone who supports him, would find out what a “whore” he would be to his values.”

Wal-Mart start paying your way! in Baraboo, WI
Tuesday, December 16 at 09:31 AM

“Make the argument about the point, not the individual.”

Wal-Mart start paying your way! in Baraboo, WI
Thursday, December 18 at 12:44 PM

A bit difficult to separate the sin from the sinner at times isn’t it Baraboo, WI?

Not at all.....I didn’t call a poster a whore.  I called Lee Scott a whore.  He was the point.  I wasn’t berating anybody’s opinion.  Read it in context.

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The ‘whoredom’ differential between RDS as a poster and Lee Scott as not, is somewhere between invisible and non-existent. The right of literary license (without your permission) and the correct identification of RDS as a WalMart troll, fraud, lackey, Christhating ‘love of money’ fool etc etc is the artistry and accuracy of the ‘whoredom’ that RDS represents himself as under the Voice Your Opinion exercised here at WMW blog officer Baraboo.

“A man can no more diminish God’s glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, ‘darkness’ on the walls of his cell.”
C. S. Lewis

Sitting in church doesn’t make you a Christian just as sitting in a garage doesn’t make you a Chevrolet.—Garrison Keillor

Wal-Mart start paying,

SDV, is a true Christian, just like a Yugo is a ‘luxury car’!!