Wal-Mart Tops Ohio List of Medicaid Recipients

Hello!
Well here is an issue that I think that Republicans and Democrats as well as Independents can agree on. However, I doubt that they will, when it comes to Wal*Mart. So RDS and Dude in Oregan and other pro-Wal*Mart people on this board, my question is this: Does the fact that Wal*Mart expects the taxpayer’s to pick up the tab for a fairly large percentage of it’s employees medical care, food and shelter, and, has for years, signal that it is time for soccialized medicine in the US? How many of your tax dollars should go to support the people who keep the doors open at your local Super Center? Are they bettering themselves and pulling themselves up by the bootstraps?

There was an interesting Obama video posted here earlier. I think it was removed to avoid the appearance of taking political sides, and quite frankly I couldn’t agree more. I can find plenty of reasons to hate Wal*Mart from the Republican and Democratic Sides! So in the interest of smaller government and a “Free Market Society” I put up this post:

It will be very interesting to see which of the “Big Box” Stores are the first to embrace progressive pro-employee/productivity reforms with regards to their human resources and management. Wal*Mart and their investors should be worried they are working with an extremely saturated market and have been counting on a severe recession and a rising missery index. Their recent stock gains indicate this as the case. It is also evidenced in Wal*Mart’s rebranding efforts. Without the support of the American consumer they would be in a bit of a pickle.

First, without a percentage of total workforce, this figure means little. I assume Wal-Mart is one of the largest, if not the largest employer in the state.

Second, Wal-Mart isn’t expecting anyone to pick up its tab. Where would these people get their health insurance if they didn’t work at Wal-Mart? Evidently they are better for the employment.

Third, I agree that national health insurance could be a good thing if implemented correctly. I believe that it could be positive for most involved.

Someone in USA
Although I and many more like me shudder to think that Wal*Mart could be the largest employer in Ohio. I personally don’t disagree with the need for a huge change in health care in America. It’s hard to believe that we are so far behind the other industrialized Nations when it comes to Healthcare. However, Wal*Mart has consistantly abused the public services of the comunities in which it matistisizes. I don’t want to pay a nickel of my tax dollars to support their Corporate Welfare.

Bobby,

:et’s say you are right and I don’t know the actual percentage of Wal-Mart employees on taxpayer funded health care, but, even if it was 60%, that means that 40% of their employees are on Wal-Mart healthcare plans, right?  So, you are saying that Wal-Mart is not paying enough, but, in the next breath, you say that you support a universal healthcare program in which 100% of Wal-Mart’s employees healthcare would be funded by the taxpayers and 0% by Wal-Mart!!  One thing you need to remember, is that Wal-Mart can only offer health insurance, they can’t FORCE the employees to take the coverage, and as long as the taxpayers are willing to give away, for FREE, health care insurance, there will always be some that choose FREE, over paying for it!!

RDS,
So whether you are a Tax and spend Democrat or a Borrow and spend republican you see no problem with Big corporations dumping their responsibilities on to the tax payers? I would rather see those tax dollars going to supplying our men and women in uniform with proper gear, improving education or public transportation, or paying down the country’s debt. Walmart isn’t doing any thing for any comunity I pay taxes in. I don’t see why we should subsidize their compensation package.

“ I personally don’t disagree with the need for a huge change in health care in America. It’s hard to believe that we are so far behind the other industrialized Nations when it comes to Healthcare."~Bobby in New York, Kentucky, Los Angeles

I agree!!!

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart worker Abuse

R E M E M B E R
J A C K S O N V I L L E
T E X A S
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse

“ I personally don’t disagree with the need for a huge change in health care in America. It’s hard to believe that we are so far behind the other industrialized Nations when it comes to Healthcare."~Bobby in New York, Kentucky, Los Angeles

I agree!!!

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart worker Abuse

R E M E M B E R
J A C K S O N V I L L E
T E X A S
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse

bobby my significant others son works at wm no previous work exp he got full time work 10.00 an hr to start plus full benefits and sorry to burst your bubble no one that works in his store not even part timers are on any kind of medicaid welfare,food stamps or any of that other bs fed to you on here.bobby you need to stop buying all the ufcw union bs on wm fed to you on here its all a crock and fools like you keep buying it.bobby i worked in the ufcw union sir and their are more ufcw union grocery workers on food stamps and state welfare doles than there are at wm sir.the ufcw union grocers dont give full time work to enough people sir like walmart does.

more ufcw union horsecrap on here like usual and uneducated fools like believe all this crap on here.

According to my calculations 24% of the Walmart workers in Ohio are on Medicaid.

You can see the details on our thread on this topic at theWritingOnTheWal.net

“you see no problem with Big corporations dumping their responsibilities on to the tax payers”

Walmart doesn’t dump their responsiblity on the tax payers.  First of all it is the people’s responsibility to get health care coverage not Walmart’s to give them unlimited free health care insurance.  Second Walmart does offer very affordable health coverage, it’s just tough to beat the free heath care that they can get from the government.  The problem isn’t Walmart, the problem is the government encouraging people to rely on them instead of working and doing things on their own or actually making good decisions with their finances so they can afford the $5-10 a paycheck.

Someone in USA
RDS
MATT IN in gresham,oregon

So none of you have a problem with your tax dollars going to subsidize Walmart?

I HAVE DECIDED TO BECOME A WRITE-IN CANDIDATE.

HERE IS MY PLATFORM:

(1) ‘Press 1 for English’ is immediately banned. English is the official language; speak it or wait at the border until you can.

(2) We will immediately go into a two year isolationist posture to straighten out the country’s attitude. NO imports, no exports.
We will use the ‘Wal-Mart’s policy, ‘If we ain’t got it, you don’t need it.’

(3) When imports are allowed, there will be a 100% import tax on it.

(4) All retired military personnel will be required to man one of our many observation towers on the southern border. (six month tour) They will be under strict orders not to fire on SOUTHBOUND aliens.

(5) Social security will immediately return to its original state.  If you didn’t put nuttin in, you ain’t gettin nuttin out. The president nor any other politician will not be able to touch it.

(6) Welfare - Checks will be handed out on Fridays at the end of the 40 hour school week and the successful completion of urinalysis and a passing grade.

(7) Professional Athletes --Steroids - The FIRST time you check positive you’re banned for life.

(8) Crime - We will adopt the Turkish method, the first time y ou steal, you lose your right hand. There is no more life sentences.  If convicted, you will be put to death by the same method you chose for your victim; gun, knife, strangulation, etc.

(9) One export will be allowed; Wheat, The world needs to eat. A bushel of wheat will be the exact price of a barrel of oil.

(10) All foreign aid using American taxpayer money will immediately cease, and the saved money will pay off the national debt and ultimately lower taxes. When disasters occur around the world, we’ll ask the American peo ple if they want to donate to a disaster fund, and each citizen can make the decision whether it’s a worthy cause.

(11) The Pledge of Allegiance will be said every day at school and every day in Congress.

(12) The National Anthem will be played at all appropriate ceremonies, sporting events, outings, etc.

Sorry if I stepped on anyone’s toes but a vote for me will get you better than what you have, and better than what you’re gonna get.  Thanks for listening, and remember to write in my name on the ballot in November.
God Bless America !!!!!!!!!!!

Bill Cosby!!!!!!!!

I personally have A HUGE PROBLEM with the fact that my tax dollars are going to pay for health care for Wal-Mart workers. To “someone in the USA"--if Wal-Mart isn’t expecting anyone to pick up this tab for them--THEN WHO ARE THEY FIGURING WILL DO SO? It is obvious from what most Wal-Mart workers get paid, that they cannot afford to pay for their own health care.
Wal-Mart is NOT STUPID. If they can get the American taxpayer to foot their bills they WON’T HESITATE TO DO SO!!
Do your homework. Wal-Mart continually wants the American taxpayer to foot their bills!
When the Wal-Mart went in in Ticonderoga (about 1 hour and a half away) they asked for a PILOT (payment in lieu of taxes.) And what is that? That means that Wal-Mart will get a gradual increase in their tax bill over a period of about 10 years! It will take approximately 10 years BEFORE they will pay 100% of their tax bill on that property!!
If any other small business or home owner tried to get a PILOT--they would be laughed at by the local politicians. But give the BENTONVILLE BEAST any chance they can to avoid their fair share--and they will.
What makes me even angrier about this is that the local Ticonderoga politicians voted to give them the PILOT. Now was THAT stupid or what?
Wal-Mart is a huge corporation that can well afford to pay for their workers health care. THEY JUST CHOSE NOT TO. Why? Because they’re cheap! Anything to save a buck! Of course Wal-Mart expects the American taxpayer to pay for their workers health care. If they didn’t then they would pay for it--plain and simple.

Dave,

I refer you to an economic study entitled “ Wal-Mart and County Wide Poverty” (10-18-2004)
AERS Staff Paper #371. By the Pennsylvania State University.(814-863-4656)

Here is but one of the quotes from the study.

“while indivdual workers have the option of working or not working for Wal-mart, a public welfare issue arises if the chain creates externalities that raise poverty levels in the community. In that case public tax dollars are spent on welfare programs and a disutility is created for those who are concerned about poor people living in their community.

The Wal-mart phenomenon is such that the chain seeks to minimize it’s workers pay, while the rents captured by the Walton heirs place them among the ten wealthiest Americans”

Not hard to understand why a full time Walmart employee with a family qualifies for all the free government benefits- THE PAY IS BELOW THE POVERTY LEVEL! Get real Dave! Check out the cost of living index and compare it to what Walmart pays its average associate! (dont include store or district management in the average)

The Walton beasts can afford to pay their associates a wage that is ABOVE poverty level, thus bringing the associates out and off of the welfare roll!

Walmart places a burden on the TAX PAYER in every community it exsists in! The Walton Beasts need to be held accountable!  If the witch can build an art museum, then she can pay back the tax payer!

Hey Jane in N.Y. How Good of a “Citizen” is Wal-Mart?

I hear that Fort Ticonderoga is having some financial difficulties.  It’s requesting something like $3 million dollars to keep the facility running.

People like to throw around the term, “corporate citizen.” Given the important role that Fort Ticonderoga played in the history of our country, and given the impact it has on the local ecnonomy as a tourist destination, you would think that good “corporate citizen,” Wal-Mart would open its wallet.

Maybe we can get Alice Walton to divert some of the $300+ million she’s plowiing into her pet art museum in Arkansas!

Bobby,

“you see no problem with Big corporations dumping their responsibilities on to the tax payers?”

Show me ONE law, that makes healthcare, Big corporation’s ‘responsibility’!!  Unions over time have created benefit packages that included healthcare programs and many non-union corporations have adopted parts of these benefit packages to compete with unionized companies, but, there is NO REQUIREMENT for them to do so!!  You said you ran a business, right?  Well, what if I said that you were ‘dumping’ people off on the system, if some of your employees were getting ‘low income housing’, would that be YOUR company’s ‘responsibility’ to provide them with ‘better housing’?

Wal-Mart offers healthcare insurance to almost all of their employees, but, if some CHOOSE not to pay the premiums and would rather get the FREE insurance provided by taxpayer programs, blame the programs or the employees, not Wal-Mart, who has NO LEGAL responsibility or ability to FORCE those employees to buy the polices that are availible to them!!

Here’s an idea, how about if a law were made, that all people who work and their company provides insurance, become ineligible for taxpayer paid insurance!!

robertdfeinman,

“According to my calculations 24% of the Walmart workers in Ohio are on Medicaid.”

Then, according to my calculations, 76% of Wal-Mart workers in Ohio AREN’T on Medicaid!!  So, I believe that this proves that Wal-mart is not DUMPING their employees off on taxpayers, because if they were, your number would be a lot higher!!

Jane,

“It is obvious from what most Wal-Mart workers get paid, that they cannot afford to pay for their own health care.”

Well, according to robertdfeinmen, 76% of Wal-Mart’s employees in Ohio, are able to do exactly what you say they can’t!!

“if Wal-Mart isn’t expecting anyone to pick up this tab for them--THEN WHO ARE THEY FIGURING WILL DO SO?”

Who is expected to pick up the tab for your car insurance, house/renters insurance, or life insurance?  Hello, YOU ARE!!  So, what makes health care insurance DIFFERENT, except the fact that people are allowed to use the government to accept that burden?

Look at it this way, what if Wal-Mart offered car insurance to it’s employees and some people decided to insure with Geico instead, does that mean that Wal-Mart is ‘dumping’ their ‘responsibility’ off on Geico?

“When the Wal-Mart went in in Ticonderoga (about 1 hour and a half away) they asked for a PILOT (payment in lieu of taxes.) And what is that? That means that Wal-Mart will get a gradual increase in their tax bill over a period of about 10 years! It will take approximately 10 years BEFORE they will pay 100% of their tax bill on that property!!”

Tell us, if GM or Ford were to seek building a plant in Ticonderoga, do you think they would be able to get a PILOT too?  This PILOT deal is used to bring a large number of jobs to an area, small business and home owners DON’T do that!!

Lisa,

“THE PAY IS BELOW THE POVERTY LEVEL! Get real Dave! Check out the cost of living index and compare it to what Walmart pays its average associate!”

Check out the sites below and see what reality is, not the union propaganda you are spouting:

http://www.livingwage.geog.psu.edu/browse_state.php

and:

2008 HHS Poverty Guidelines
Persons in Family or Household
48 Contiguous States and D.C.

1 - $10,400
2 - $14,000
3 - $17,600
4 - $21,200
5 - $24,800
6 - $28,400
7 - $32,000
8 - $35,600
For each additional person, add $3,600

SOURCE:  Federal Register, Vol. 73, No. 15, January 23, 2008, pp. 3971–3972

http://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty/08poverty.shtml

Sorry Walmart Supporters.
I feel priviledged to be an American Tax Payer. I want my tax dollars to go to building up our country and not tearing it down. Walmart deserves no tax incentives at all. And in fact should be taxed accordingly to pay for it’s workers health care. If they want to put their better paying competition out of business and subsidize the move of good manufacturing jobs overseas, thus directly shrinking the tax base. The health care crisis in the US has risen at about the same rate as Walmart’s growth. I don’t shop there, I won’t own the stock, and people are crazy to give them tax dollars.
....I want a refund.

RDS
1 - $10,400
2 - $14,000
3 - $17,600
4 - $21,200
5 - $24,800
6 - $28,400
7 - $32,000
8 - $35,600
For each additional person, add $3,600

SOURCE:  Federal Register, Vol. 73, No. 15, January 23, 2008, pp. 3971–3972

You keep posting this as if it means something. Living wages, Poverty Level, etc. are abstract ideas that are formulated by people who may or may not be qualified to decide what they are. “poverty level” and “living wages” obviously vary town to town. This is not a “one size fits all situation. When larger groups of our citizens have to choose between feeding their children and taking care of their health needs there is a problem. The right wing say’s they don’t want to raise taxes. I don’t think the right could budget itself out of a wet paper bag.

RDS: How many GM workers are on Medicaid? Real jobs, even in stressed industries, pay their workers and don’t ask the state to do it.

Your need to defend the indefensible at all costs just makes for the most absurd comments on your part.

The purpose of Medicaid and other assistance plans is to aid those who are out of the workforce for one reason or another, not those who are employed. The only exceptions are the EITC and food stamps.

The EITC provides a tax refund to the working poor which can, in some cases, exceed the actual amount of taxes that they paid. It has been one of the best poverty programs put in place over the past few decades.

It was structured the way it was because “welfare” is now seen as a dirty word while a “tax refund” is not. It would hardly be needed if the minimum wage was a livable wage - except in the case of seasonal or part year workers.

If you think your role is to say “black” whenever someone else says “white” then you contribute nothing to the discussion. Apparently you get some personal satisfaction out of doing this, you must have a pretty unexciting life if this is the best you can come up with for entertainment.

By the way, we had some further discussions on The Writing on the Wal and I’ve revised the percentage down to more like 10% because of children being covered by Schip and other plans.

2008 HHS Poverty Guidelines
Persons in Family or Household
48 Contiguous States and D.C.

1 - $10,400
2 - $14,000
3 - $17,600
4 - $21,200
5 - $24,800
6 - $28,400
7 - $32,000
8 - $35,600
For each additional person, add $3,600

~ RDS in

That’s very interesting Bob(RDS)
I wonder if there is a “Pig at the trough"2008 HHS Guidelines
Persons in Family or Household
48 Contiguous States and D.C?
Where would your executives slot in?

You are so focused on keeping people as poor as possible while you excuse the rich taking the cream.
I was talking to a lady who’s daughter works for WM here.
After 3 years full time she makes nine dollars and change an hour. She has part time people who answer to her who are making more an hour.
There is something very wrong with this picture.
But what else is new when you deal with a place like Walmart.

R E M E M B E R
J O N Q U I E R E
Q U E B E C
Home of Walmart worker Abuse

R E M E M B E R
J A C K S O N V I L L E
T E X A S
Home of Walmart Worker Abuse

Walmart wont even pay their associates who worked on labor day, time & Half unless they worked over 40 hours in that week or 80 in the pay period.

Thats a given that didnt/wont happen.
Even if it some how slipped by mgmt. hours will be adjusted to prevent paying the overtime.  You can count on it!

Sleaze bags!

Lisa,

No need to post untrue statements. Wal-Mart gives an average day’s pay for the holiday if you have been there 90 days provided you don’t miss your scheduled days around or on the holiday.

So none of you have a problem with your tax dollars going to subsidize Walmart?

Bobby,

I don’t consider it subsidizing Wal-Mart, but rather its employees. Wal-Mart offers affordable health benefits for which the majority of its associates are eligible. Their choice not to take advantage is not Wal-Mart’s fault.

For those who “need” Medicaid and are not eligible for benefits or decline them, one has to ask, “Why?” Most of the time, I’d be willing to bet they don’t have a good reason.

Finally, unless Wal-Mart is shirking a law that mandates that it provide health benefits to all associates (perhaps even against their will?), you cannot say you are subsidizing Wal-Mart.

I’ve posted extensively on this topic. Search this site’s archives and you’ll probably find an answer to whatever response you’re think about writing.

Someone in USA
So you Approve?

robertdfeinman,

“How many GM workers are on Medicaid?”

Well, it all depends on WHO you consider a GM worker, one that is still working or one that has been laid off with a plant closing!!  Many who have been laid off, might just be on Medicaid!!  But, then again, how many Wal-Mart workers are on layoff status?

“The purpose of Medicaid and other assistance plans is to aid those who are out of the workforce for one reason or another, not those who are employed.”

Better tell that to Medicaid, not me!!  I didn’t approve Wal-Mart’s employees for getting Medicaid!!

“The only exceptions are the EITC and food stamps.”

Has anyone ever taken the time to figure out, what exactly one of the Wal-Mart workers you are talking about recieves each year in:

Wages, EITC, food stamps, low income housing savings, WIC program, energy assistance, etc.?

Then my question to you, is, “If MOST Wal-Mart workers can make it without taking advantage of the above programs, Just How Do They Do It?”!!

“I’ve revised the percentage down to more like 10% because of children being covered by Schip and other plans.”

Then, that means that somehow 90% of Wal-Mart’s employees AREN’T on Medicaid, again, HOW DO THEY DO IT?

Bobby,

“You keep posting this as if it means something. Living wages, Poverty Level, etc. are abstract ideas that are formulated by people who may or may not be qualified to decide what they are.”

Then why in the world, do people here keep talking about Living wages, Poverty Levels, etc., if they are only abstract ideas that are formulated by people who may or may not be qualified to decide what they are?  Are you telling me, that all of the posters here ARE qualified to spout about what those things are?

BTW: I just posted that chart and a ‘living wage’ site, because Lisa, stated that “THE PAY IS BELOW THE POVERTY LEVEL”, and these show that her statement may not be true!!  What were her qualifications to make such a statement?

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jane how about your taxdollars going to subsidize welfare for all your favorite ufcw union grocery store workers across america that cant get full time work and enough hrs huh?got anything to say on that jane.btw jane my significant others son works at wm no previous work exp.10.00 an hr to start full time work and full benefits.got anything to say on that.and no one at his store is on any kind of state or govt welfare program either so stop spouting your govt and united food and commercial workers union bullcrap on here jane.

funny bobby fools like you that bitch about govt subsidies and tax breaks wm gets you never bitch and moan when your favorite stores bobby get the same govt subsidies and tax breaks walmart gets proving what a hypocrit you are.bullcrap lisa wm dont pay time and a half for labor day. sorry to burst your bubble lisa my significant others son worked on labor day at wm and was paid time and a half shooting down your ufcw union bullcrap argument.you folks need to stop believing everything the united food and commercial workers union tells you

MATT IN in gresham,oregon
So you love the government just the way it is I guess… You seem to be very anti union, did one scare yer mum when she was preggers with you? As I’ve mentioned in earlier postings I’m not “pro” or “con” unions. Unions happen naturaly when groups of people are finding themselves shat upon. If the shoes fits in Walmart’s case then the employees may choose to form a union. If that happens Walmart will have no one to blame but themselves. Since I don’t shop at, or own stock in Walmart anymore, I want their hand out of my pocket. If you, Matt, work at, or own stock in Walmart, please get your hand out of my pocket. I don’t like it and people might get the wrong idea. America needs to get over the idea of a “Service Economy”. In Walmart’s America they run the show and the Wal*American Citizens takes turns selling foregn made junk to each other. Its happening right now, They’ve saturated the market to the point that they can’t grow anymore in the economy they played a HUGE part in creating. Don’t forget to sell your stock! Oh, and for the record there is one Union that I support 200%, the Union we call the United States of America.

Bobby,

“Don’t forget to sell your stock!”

Gee, that’s funny, you must be making a bundle off the market!!  The DOW at this time is DOWN 261 points and only ONE stock in the DOW index is UP, guess which one that is?  Right, WAL-MART, is UP $.98 a share ($60.77)!!  Sell the stock that is going UP, good move!!

Quote: “There’s a sucker born every minute”
Banker named David Hannum

RDS
WOW! That stock has come a long way since it was trading (right after it’s last split) at $69. in 2000!!!! Now that’s a great return on investment!!

Quote: “There’s a sucker born every minute”
Banker named David Hannum

</b>Just Ignore RDS, Bobby!</b>

First of all, I appreciate your comments and take on the Vietnam War.  I think you get it better than many of McCain’s supporters.  I realize it’s a bit “off topic” for this forum, but after last night’s “John McCain Love Fest,” praising his heroic record the Vietnam War, it brought many of the same old questions to the forefront once more.

As for RDS, sooner or later we all have the same view of him as Robertdfeinman did in a recent post:

“Your need to defend the indefensible at all costs just makes for the most absurd comments on your part.”

“If you think your role is to say “black” whenever someone else says “white” then you contribute nothing to the discussion. Apparently you get some personal satisfaction out of doing this, you must have a pretty unexciting life…”

Just ignore him if you can!

It’s quite obvious from RDS’s last rant, that he’s not aware there is more than one way to make money in the stock market.  Lots of investors have used contrarian strategies.

Personally, I’d recommend avoiding WalMart stock entirely!

Hi there Screwed,
What you called a love fest I call “fingernails on a black board”, or how about that sound a fork makes when you scrape it accross a plate. The level of propaganda high! The level of sophistication low. Aimed right at the republican mainstream.
Have you read the interview with the woman who came to McCains aid when he was shot down? VERY interesting. And Wal*Mart’s stock closed down today.

“And Wal*Mart’s stock closed down today.”

Yes it did, $.01 a share, on a day when the DOW was DOWN 344.65 points!!

As for the convention, it’s a convention, not a debate!!  Was the Democratic convention any different really?

“Was the Democratic convention any different really?” ~RDS

I can think of two ways immediately that the Democratic convention was different from the RNC.

The most noticeable thing missing from the DNC was the drone-like, mindless, on cue cheering.  How many times in the last 3 days didn’t we hear “Drill baby, drill,” “Zero, Zero,” “Country First,” and the all-time favorite… “USA, USA, USA.”

What’s the point of the last one anyway?  NEWS ITEM: The Olympics were over two weeks ago!

The other thing more conspicuously missing from the DNC was all the damn little American flag pins on the lapels.  Is that how we tell who the “real Americans” are?

Yeah...these were just conventions.  In many ways they were little more than a high school pep rally.  Let the debates begin!  Let’s see what the McCain dream team is really made of.

“The most noticeable thing missing from the DNC was the drone-like, mindless, on cue cheering.  How many times in the last 3 days didn’t we hear “Drill baby, drill,” “Zero, Zero,” “Country First,” and the all-time favorite… “USA, USA, USA.” “

Did you watch the DNC?  The Democrats had their USA, USA chants as well.  Also they had a lot of Barack Obama chants too.  I’m sure there were others as well, but those were the two I saw the most.

The Saudi Connection

But al-Mansour’s sponsorship of Obama as a prospective Harvard law student is important for another reason beyond his Islamic & anti-American rhetoric & early Black Panther ties.

At the time Percy Sutton, a former lawyer for Malcolm X & a former business partner of al-Mansour, says he was raising money for Obama’s graduate school education, al-Mansour was representing top members of the Saudi Royal family seeking to do business and exert influence in the United States.

In 1989, for example — just one year after Obama entered Harvard Law School — The Los Angeles Times revealed that al-Mansour had been advising Saudi billionaires Abdul Aziz & Khalid al-Ibrahim in their secret effort to acquire a major stake in prime oceanfront property in Marina del Rey, Calif., through “an elaborate network of corporate shells in California, the Caribbean and Europe.”

He was also advising Prince Alwaleed bin Talal in his U.S. investments, & sits on the board of his premier investment vehicle, Kingdom Holdings.

Prince Alwaleed, 53, is the nephew of King Abdallah of Saudi Arabia. The 19th richest person on the planet, with a fortune in excess of $23 billion. He owns large chunks of Citigroup & News Corp.

He is best known in the United States for his offer to donate $10 million to help rebuild downtown Manhattan after the 9/11 attacks. But after the prince made a public comment suggesting that U.S. policies had contributed to causing the attacks, Mayor Rudy Giuliani handed back his check.

“I entirely reject that statement,” Giuliani said. “There is no moral equivalent for this (terrorist) act. There is no justification for it. The people who did it lost any right to ask for justification for it when they slaughtered 4,000 or 5,000 innocent people.”

Since then, Prince Alwaleed’s Kingdom Foundation has given millions of dollars to Muslim charities in the United States, including several whose leaders have been indicted on terrorism-related charges in federal courts.

He also has given tens of millions of dollars to Harvard and other major U.S. universities, to establish programs in Islamic studies.

Although al-Mansour glosses over his ties to the Saudi mega-billionaire in some of his public talks, he has represented the Saudi’s interests in the United States, in Britain, & in Africa for more than a quarter century, according to public records.

He told Newsmax that he has personally introduced Prince Alwaleed to “51 of the 53 leaders of Africa,” traveling from country to country on the Saudi prince’s private jet.

He knows virtually every black leader in America, from the business community, to community activists, to the worlds of politics and entertainment.

When Michael Jackson was on the ropes in the mid-1990s following a series of lawsuits by the parents of children accusing him of sexual abuse, al-Mansour introduced him to Prince Alwaleed, whose Kingdom Entertainment signed a joint venture with Jackson in 1996.

“Jackson & Alwaleed became pals in 1994, when a mutual friend from Alwaleed’s college days in California arranged a meeting aboard the prince’s yacht in Cannes,” Time magazine reported about the new partnership in 1997.

The mutual friend was al-Mansour.

“As a black American, I am exceedingly proud at the American people’s response to Barack Obama’s candidacy,” said CORE’s Niger Innis. “But to deny that he has long-standing ties to left-wing elements in our polity is to deny reality. If you want to be president of the United States, it is not racism if you ask these kind of questions, and he has to come up with an answer, hopefully the truth.”

Sutton gives no clues as to why al-Mansour would be raising money to help Obama go to law school. Obama has said during his campaign that he paid his way through Harvard with student loans.

For Jesse Lee Peterson, founder of the Los Angeles-based Brotherhood Organization of a New Destiny (BOND), these latest revelations about Obama’s ties to Saudi financiers were an important wake-up call.

“To me, this opened up more questions about Barack Obama and his relationship to the Muslim world,” Peterson told Newsmax.

“A lot of people are caught up with the emotional aspect of Barack Obama, the movie star aspect, the false promises that he’s going to take care of everyone and their Mama.”

But when the full story of Obama’s ties to radical preachers such as Wright & to black Muslim leader Louis Farrakhan comes out, Peterson believes that Obama’s star power will fade.

“I think there’s more to this story & to Barack Obama than we realize,” Peterson said. “As all the truth comes out before the election, I don’t think he has a chance. I can’t see American’s taking that kind of risk.”

The Obama campaign did not respond to requests for comment.

Percy Sutton Reveals Association Between Khalid al-Mansour and Obama at Age 25

Quit Assualting Us With Your Stupidity, Dave!

Yes… as a matter of fact I watched both of the conventions.

If, as you say, the Democrats slipped in a “USA, USA” “USA” cheer, those were barely noticeable.

I don’t have a problem with people cheering on their candidate as in “McCain” McCain” or “Sarah” “Sarah.” That is to be expected at a political convention.

What I’m talking about is the mindless, sheep-like, Stepford Wife-like, and highly choreographed chanting.  There is nothing spontaneous about it!  Doesn’t it make you wonder if the McCain speech writing team puts it into the text of the speech?

[pause after saying this line while people chant “Drill baby drill"]

You wonder how many “volunteers” the convention planners round up and how they decide who gets to start which cheer on cue?

Those “cheers” do nothing to inspire me and are as phony and meaningless as the Republican promise that they will “fight for us.”

THE CRIMES AND COVERUPS OF JOHN McCAIN, “REFORMER”
Posted by leveymg
Tue Jun 03rd 2008,
Part 2: McCain’s 30-Years of Service to Saudi Bank Raiders and Junk Bond Kings

From BCCI, to Milken’s Junk Bond Kings, to Jack Abramoff, Senator John McCain has long provided the clean All-American face to the dirty job of cleaning up after the looting of America.

Senator John McCain has made a career out of serving the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and its army of lobbyists, bagmen, and corrupt bankers during the last three decades.

In the process, he has done his part to cover-up BCCI’s looting of American banks and S&Ls;, helped Ahmed Chalabi sell phony Iraq WMD information to Senate colleagues and to his constituents (see, Part 1, http://journals.democraticunderground.com/… ), and more than anyone else, limited the public’s awareness of Jack Abamoff’s wholesale foreign buyout of the GOP, activities that individually have killed the careers of other Washington luminaries. Yet, somehow, John McCain remains the last man standing. He even appears to keep his hands clean.

The Saudi-Manchurian Candidate

The Senator’s patented role as All-American influence peddler to the world now includes the latest flap over his national campaign finance co-chair’s lucrative deals as a Saudi lobbyist and revelations about possible violations of federal campaign laws.

Tom Loeffler, McCain’s finance co-chair received $15 million from Saudi clients since 2002, is just part of a long conduit in the petrodollar pipeline from Riyadh to the Senator from Arizona. The Loeffler Group, which he founded, has also represented the People’s Republic of China.

Under Loeffler, the campaign has brought in more than $50 million for McCain so far this year, far more than was raised during all of 2007 when the GOP candidate faced a weak field of primary competitors. OpenSecrets.com shows that Loeffler and his wife, Nancy, have made a total of fifteen $2,300 maximum personal contributions to McCain during the past year.

The latest revelation of McCain’s connection to Arab oil money, and corruption within his campaign, came after the May 17 issue of NEWSWEEK reported: http://www.newsweek.com/id/137522

Loeffler last month told a reporter “at no time have I discussed my clients with John McCain.” But lobbying disclosure records reviewed by NEWSWEEK show that on May 17, 2006, Loeffler listed meeting McCain along with the Saudi ambassador to “discuss US-Kingdom of Saudi Arabia relations.”

McCain is, indeed, in good favor among the Saudi and Gulf elites. Bloomberg reports: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206…

Saudis are privately rooting for the presumptive Republican nominee, discounting some of his rhetoric because he’s the only candidate to promise to keep U.S. troops in Iraq and to deter Iran.

``The royal family and other elites would like to see McCain,’’ Mai Yamani, a visiting scholar with the Carnegie Middle East Center in Beirut, said yesterday in a telephone interview from London.

``He would keep the troops in Iraq, and that is their main worry, that the U.S. may withdraw or minimize its presence,’’ said Yamani, whose father, Sheikh Ahmed Zaki Yamani, was the kingdom’s oil minister from 1962 to 1986.

Like the Bush Family, McCain had his Hand in the BCCI and S&L;Scandals

McCain claims that his involvement in the Keating S&L;scandal wasn’t really much to worry ourselves about. He was all but exonerated by his Senate colleagues, he says, let off with the political equivalent of a warning at a traffic stop. In fact, the Senate Ethics Committee was rather lenient with all five caught up in the scandal. But, that says more about the nature of the Senate than it does about the actual damage done to the American public by the financial crimes that led to the S&L;collapse, itself.

The S&L;crisis was all about oil, junk bonds, and deregulation that allowed the two to mix. That volatile brew is still actively bubbling over,and taxpayers are still paying $30 billion annual installments toward the trillion dollar bailout.

Here’s how you got stuck paying the bill, courtesy of the Bush family and John McCain.

In the mid-1980s, world oil prices plunged which set off a long series of bankruptcies and financial takeovers when overvalued Texas and southwestern land prices collapsed. The financial panic of 1988 also followed the “reform” of federal banking rules that had allowed bank managers to trade in risky new derivatives and junk bonds.

This tidal wave of bankruptcies in the oil patch created a huge buying opportunity for anyone with ready cash. The problem was, these were hard times on Wall Street after the sudden panic sell-off on October 1987. But, someone did step in once prices were sufficiently discounted. Huge bank holding companies scooped up looted banks and S&Ls;(along with their land deeds and oil rights), bought out for pennies on the dollar after they went belly-up. The federal government even subsidized many of these purchases. The American taxpayer was left with an estimated $1 trillion bailout cost. The epicenters of this late 20th Century white collar crime wave were in Houston and Phoenix, home base for two highly ambitious GOP politicians. One was named George H.W. Bush, and the other John McCain, III.~~~~~~~~Democratic Underground

Buried in all this muck is the thread running through all these financial scandals – from Keating to Silverado to First RepublicBank to BCCI to Enron—has been corrupt management, corrupt officials, corrupt intelligence operatives, and corrupt auditors. See, http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/92jan/st…

As the group’s scams became more sophisticated and wide-ranging, the price tag for bail-outs escalated. The federal rescue of Neil Bush’ Silverado S&L;cost the taxpayer $1.3 billion. The price tag for Charles Keating’s Lincoln Savings & Loan bailout eventually reached $2.6 billion. http://www.slate.com/id/1004633 BCCI was termed “the $20-billion-plus heist.” (Beatty, Jonathan; S.C. Gwynne. The Outlaw Bank: A Wild Ride Into the Secret Heart of BCCI Beard Books (1993)). Finally, the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC) estimated that Enron fleeced ratepayers of $30 billion, creating the 2001 California energy crisis. On November 15, 2005, FERC settled with Enron’s receivers for a mere $1.5 billion. http://www.ferc.gov/industries/electric/in…

The Keating S&L;scandal was part of a now-familiar pattern of transnational commodities price-fixing, land grabs, stock-price rigging, fraudulent audits, financial panic, and public bailouts, all carried out by an overlapping cast of characters with ties to foreign and domestic intelligence agencies. Amidst the financial panic of 1986-88 that followed the drop of a barrel of oil from $39 to $13, many of these banks and S&Ls;(and their land deeds and oil rights) were bought out for pennies on the dollar. More than a thousand deregulated financial institutions went belly up and were looted. Deregulation allowed crooked bank managers to cash in on the junk bond craze that was sweeping Wall Street. Banks and S&Ls;issued unsecured notes and plots of land and traded them in circles with other institutions to ring up the notional value to support cash-out loans for themselves and their partners.

This is precisely the sort of round-robin games that Neil Bush, Director of Silverado S&L;played with Charles Keating and his partners, Saudi European Investment Corp’s board and officers – Roger Tamraz, Tolat Othman, Abdullah Taha Bakhsh, Abbas Gokal—along with other BCCI players. All told, the S&L;scandal left the American taxpayer holding the tab for an estimated $1 trillion bailout.
It was during this period that the Saudis and Gulf states leveraged their earnings from American bank acquisitions through junk-bond mills, and then moved on to the 1996 Chemical-Chase and Citi banks consolidations in New York. http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html… Today, Prince Alaweed’s Kingdom Holdings owns a substantial and growing share of Citicorp, the largest bank in America, along with a portfolio of the nation’s largest financial, technology and media corporations. A similar process of slash and burn acquisition of the U.S. financial industry is now going on with the collapse of the U.S. mortgage and derivatives markets. See, http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/week… ; http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/11/business…

To recap, the context of the Keating S&L;scandal was manipulation of world oil prices following the 1979 Iranian revolution and a loosening of regulatory oversight that set off a wave of bank failures across the American oil patch. Into this mix enters BCCI’s global raiders and junk bond traders, who cash cow the giant bank holding companies and leverage their assets into a play to take over the American banking industry. It’s in this context that one needs to re-examine the role of John McCain in the Keating S&L;scandal.~~~~~~~Democratic Underground

National News July 31 , 2008

McCain’s Son Steps Down From Bank Post

First National Bank of Nevada was shut down by federal regulators last week. Silver State Bancorp announced that Andrew McCain, son of Republican presidential candidate John McCain, was stepping down from the board of directors. McCain’s son said his decision to leave was made for “personal reasons.” According to regulatory filings, Silver State Bank’s noncurrent loans shot from $128,000 at the end of the first quarter in 2007 to $70 million at the end of the first quarter of 2008. The losses were attributed to bad bets on real estate lending. Silver State has also been tied to the CMKM Diamonds case, in which penny stock investors were defrauded of more than 250 million dollars. Investigators said that a large portion of that money was run through a single branch of Silver State Bank in Las Vegas. Other ir-re-gularities include accepting four separate checks for $2.5 million dollars each from a fraudulent company account at Wells Fargo Bank in one week. All four were written on temporary checks.  This is not the first time the McCain family has been mixed up in a banking scandal.  Senator John McCain was involved twenty years ago in the infamous “Keating 5” savings and loan scandal. Federal regulators seized the Lincoln Savings and Loan Association of Irvine, California. The senior McCain was rebuked by the Senate Ethics Commission, who concluded that he and four other senators had tried to hold off a government investigation into the savings and loan’s risky real estate deals. Lincoln Savings and Loan’s chairman at the time was Charles Keating, who was not only one of McCain’s top donors, but was a business partner with Cindy McCain.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~INN

Onward Christian Soldiers in.. Outer Space!
Saudi Connection? Muslim Connection? Barak Obama has a connection to a Muslim? DO YOU EVEN HAVE A CLUE AS TO JUST WHO IT IS THAT HAS BEEN IN THE WHITEHOUSE 20 OUT OF THE LAST 28 YEARS!!!!!!??????? Do some homework for gosh sakes. Your makling Christains look stupid. Bush Sr. was having breakfast in Washington DC with Osama BinLaden’s family when the first plane hit the world trade center. Duh!!! And The Bush Family, the Bin Ladens and the Saudi Royals are joint business partners in enterprizes too numerous to list! And let’s not forget who trained and armed Osama BinLaden and alQaeda to Begin With, Ronald Reagan and George Bush. Now I know your just another drone aggitator on this board. But as a believer, I’d change your moniker before God drops a house on you!

Apologies for going off topic.

ddrb in
I was wondering when someone was going to mention the Keating 5.

BTW:
DOES ANYBODY AT WALMART WATCH ACTUALLY MONITOR THESE BOARDS?

Oh and don’t forget to sell your Wal*Mart stock…

“What I’m talking about is the mindless, sheep-like, Stepford Wife-like, and highly choreographed chanting. “

So chanting your candidates name on cue is spontaneous, but chanting your candidates campaign slogan is “mindless”?  It’s pretty much the same thing, only the Republicans way requires remembering more information than just the candidates name.

“but chanting your candidates campaign slogan is “mindless”?  It’s pretty much the same thing,”..Dave~~~~NOTE: Kinda like the mindless WalMart cheer,including “squiggly” and gyrations,Dave?

“I wonder how many times you have to be hit on the head before you find out who’s hitting you? It’s about time that the people of America realized what the Republicans have been doing to them.” - Harry Truman (1948)

Fast forward 60 years....

Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it. ~ George Santayana

If you don’t get it yet, perhaps you will in four more years.

That is an interesting quote from him considering the Democrats had controlled the White House for 15 straight years at that point and that his Democratic predecessor caused the Great Depression to last a full decade.  I guess if Obama get elected and through enacting his socialistic agenda causes the current downturn in the economy to turn into a full blown depression, he too will be considered to be a great President, and his successor can blame it all on Republicans.

...socialistic agenda..

We’ve had your capitalistic agenda for 14 years now, Dave, and quite frankly, the economy isn’t so hot, for the proletariat that is.

Tell me, Dave, what do you call the government bailing out financial institutions? Isn’t using taxpayer dollars to pay for all this socialism?

“America is at that awkward stage; it’s too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards.” ~ Claire Wolfe