Y Tu, El Jefe?

Bruce,

You need WalMart about as much as a guy on a Harley needs a pink boa. Throw it away.

I am a long time fan of Bruce Springsteen and have been following his career since about 1974.  I have seen him in concert 46 times and felt that he always wrote about were I was in my life at that time.  I worked hard for the Obama campaign and was glad that Bruce was on the same side and was proud when he stated that the American Dream has left us during the Bush years and Obama can give us that Dream back.  WalMart takes that American Dream away they have been sued successfully for not paying Women the same as Men and for violating the Fair Labor Standards Act.  They have also been caught locking in illegels at night and making them work without a break.  Employees have to worked at WalMart two years before they can purchase health care from WalMart and even then most can not afford it.  When you are hired at WalMart they show how to get your Health Care from the State instead of doing the right thing and giving them Health Care, they can afford it.  The Eagles and AC/DC just hd their latest CDs only at WalMart and I refused to buy them and did not go to see them when they played in Pittsburgh.  I have everything that you have released on Vinyl and or CD but I will not purchase your CD if it is only released at WalMart and for the first time I will not attend your show if you come to Pittsburgh.  I know that one fan will not make a difference but you are not gaining a lot of new fans and should want to keep the ol ones.  I ask you to do the right thing and do not release this new CD at WalMart they go against everyghing you have written about. Please go to WalMartwatch.com and research how bad WalMart is to their employees and how they shut down stores that vote to go Union.  I have been going to see Joe Grushecky since he began with the Brick Alley band then the Iron City Housrockers and still go see him by himself or with the Houserockers and have seen you perform with him several times.  Joe still works hard at his day job and performs at night and on the weekends and we live in a very hard working blue collar union town and the people of Pittsburgh and its suburbs have kept WalMart out of two communitys and are trying to stop it from going into another community, because they hurt the community by undercutting the Mom and Pop stores and when they close WalMart is the only game in town and the employees of the Mom and Pop stores go to work for WalMart at substandard wages.  The average WalMart in this Country turns over 50% of its employment every two years.  Again please do not have an exclusive deal with WalMart it is bad for America and the American Dream.  Thank you.

Jim Lewis,

Funny, how you thought Bruce was always right in what he wrote and even supported your candidate for President, but, then you listen to all the union propaganda and suddenly, you don’t think that he knows what he is doing!!  Somehow, you think he became ignorant!!

Bruce is doing this deal for one reason, he knows that it will revitalize his career and sales of his CD’s will be through the roof, just like they were with the Eagles, Journey, and AC/DC!!  If you are willing to abandon a recording artist, just because you fell for the union propaganda, then you weren’t really a fan, you are what they call a ‘Fair-weather Fan’!!

RDS:
Fans can do whatever they like. Friends, on the other hand, are supposed to be in a reciprocal relationship. That’s why “fair weather” friends are not really friends.

Your failure, once again, to understand that commercial relationships are not subject to loyalty and affection is why you get everything wrong about human nature. I may like a performer, but I don’t owe him anything and if he displeases me then I can take my business elsewhere.

robertdfeinman,

“and if he displeases me then I can take my business elsewhere.”

So, if Wal-Mart displeases you, FINE, then why don’t you just take your business elsewhere and allow others to decide what displeases them?  Why do you think that you have to spread the word about your displeasure and try to convince others that they should follow your lead and be displeased as well, don’t you think they have enough ‘brains’ to think for themselves?

The day I walk into a Wal-Mart store and see it as EMPTY as a K-Mart store, I may start to believe all of the things posted here by the anti side, until then, I have to assume that most people are NOT displeased with Wal-Mart!!  And, until I walk into a Wal-Mart store and SEE the things posted here, HAPPENING, I will continue to shop there!!  Lastly, until I hear that Target, K-Mart and the other ‘big box’ stores are paying better, giving better benefits and treating their people better, I will continue to think that Wal-Mart is right in line with the other retailers!!

I’d be curious to know if its wriiten in Springsteen’s agreement that he cannot advocate for unions,i.e.,speaking up FOR EFCA or performing for union based events,PSA’s, or generally weighing in ,publcly, in favor of labor.Or , has the “Boss’ merely become the “Boss Hog” at the WalMart trough?

Bruces “Greatest Hits” sold exclusively at Walmart?
Good signs of a has been.  Wait a year of two and you can buy the same cd from the dollar stores.

RDS:
And you defend Walmart why?

I don’t criticize Walmart shoppers, or workers. I don’t call them stupid or deluded. I call them victims. Victims of a system which they can’t alter, even though we claim to live in a democratic country where the people (through their representatives) get to decide how the country should be run.

Getting Walmart to change its behavior means influencing a very small number of people. Much smaller, in fact, than most corporations. All it would take for Walmart to start acting better would be a few words from the Walton family. Imagine that a handful of people could make life better for millions.

And you defend them why?

robertdfeinman,

“And you defend Walmart why?”

Because of what you yourself said, “to live in a democratic country where the people (through their representatives) get to decide how the country should be run.”!!  You said ‘people and their representatives’, not ‘unions, anti-growth groups or any other tiny groups that think they have the ‘right’ to determine what other people should do or have agendas to peddle, to line their own pockets!!

One thing you anti-people seem to enjoy sidestepping, is, that if the ‘people’ really wanted Wal-Mart to go out of business, there is a simple way, all they have to do is STOP shopping there!!  You also, seem to side step the fact that Wal-Mart was once a small ‘mom & pop’ store in NW Arkansas and by ‘competeing’, they grew to the largest retailer in America, then you say it is impossible for anyone to ‘compete’ with Wal-Mart!!  Sam Walton, did it to K-Mart, Sears and all the rest of the giants, where is the ‘new’ Sam Walton type that can take Wal-Mart on through ‘competition’?  I don’t really care if Wal-Mart goes down, just so it isn’t pulled down by pressure from unions or anti-groups!!  If you allow that to happen, then the whole business system becomes vulnerable to any group that chooses to take it down!!

What I really hate, is the people who LIE about Wal-Mart and call it FACTS!!  I have NEVER seen a Wal-Mart store, that had the employees ‘chained’ to their work stations, yet we hear that the employees are ‘slaves’, then, I hear about shelves being empty, fruit flies over the produce, long lines; where you have to wait in line for a long time, poor customer service, etc., NONE of which I have EVER seen in ANY Wal-Mart store!!

Then, there is the ‘below poverty wages’, which I have shown is crap, except in large cities in California and those who say that Wal-Mart puts others ‘out of business’, when anyone with half a brain, knows it is customers leaving your store to go somewhere else that puts your store ‘out of business’, failure to ‘compete’ puts you ‘out of business’!!  Every successful retail business, has a ‘hook’, something that entices shoppers into their stores and keeps them there, Wal-Mart’s ‘hook’ is ‘low prices’!!  And, besides, I see many more stores in our area, then there were 18 years ago when I moved here, and this is the ‘heart’ of Wal-Mart country!!

If you believe that Wal-Mart is doing it wrong or is dangerous, stop crying and start a retail business of your own, doing what YOU think is the right way and if you have it right, you can put Wal-Mart down!!

Why do I defend them?  I don’t, you just refuse to acknowledge that, I just try to keep people like you from spreading FALSE infomation as FACT, by presenting counter arguements!!  If you can’t FACT Wal-Mart out of business, then your position is the FALSE position and YOU are just trying to “decide how the country should be run”, instead of letting the ‘people’ and their representatives do it for themselves!!

And you want to change Walmart, and tell the Waltons how to run their lives, why?  Seems they are doing just fine, without your advice!!  And, like I said before, if you don’t like shopping there, don’t, but don’t tell me and others that you know better than we do, as if you are smart and we are dumb, because, believe it or not, ‘we’ are those ‘people’ you talked about, that should “get to decide how the country should be run”!!  After all, this STILL is America, Land of the FREE, isn’t it?  You remember that country, don’t you, the one where anybody can reach for the sky and has NO LIMIT on how high they can climb up the ladder of success?

hey feinmann why dont you tell all of your favorite high cost retailers like target,k-mart,macys,ufcw union grocery stores and all the fast food joints that you love so much to pay all employees living quality wages and give employees good benefits instead of whining about walmart?funny we never hear you demeaning all your favorite places for treating their workers far worse and paying them far less.feinmann if anyone needs to change theirbusines ppractices its not walmart its all of your favorite stores that pay far les and treat workers ten times worse than walmart has ever been accused of.i know for a fact sir because i have worked for 2 of your favorite places in the past.

It seems a little silly to argue about the viability of the Wal-Mart led race to the bottom when we see the results around the planet. The last number I’ve heard is $3 TRILLION of worldwide ‘wealth’ has just evaporated.

Springsteen is so yesterday.

What’s good for Wal-Mart is BAD for America!

@robertdfeinman: “I don’t criticize Walmart shoppers, or workers. I don’t call them stupid or deluded. I call them victims.”

How condescending of you. You know exactly how others lives are and how to live them for others?

@@robertdfeinman “Victims of a system which they can’t alter”

No, they control their own lives, and they make the informed decisions. These decisions including working or shopping at Wal-Mart, or chosing not to.

@@robertdfeinman: “Getting Walmart to change its behavior means influencing a very small number of people.”

Walmart is already accountable to its customers and workers.

@@robertdfeinman: “And you defend them why?”

Because the company already acts in the interest of the largest employed workforce in the country, and a huge customer base. If they did not, fewer people would work there or shop there.
---------

Ken V: The race to the bottom is good. There is no good reason to be overcharged for anything.

Psychologists have spent decades trying to understand those who can maintain their beliefs in the face of contradictory facts. They have done a pretty good job of defining how such people behave, but why then do this is still mostly a mystery.

The three commentators above are perfect examples. They refuse to understand that people really don’t have as much freedom of action in the current US as the fairytales they learned in elementary school civics classes.

They fail to understand that people have less chance for social mobility, that big firms like Walmart have monopoly and monopsony power which they use to stifle competition and control not only what price is charged, but what is sold to begin with.

There is no point in arguing with such people, apparently their psychological stability requires that they keep believing that those trapped in lousy social and economic conditions are at fault. If they would only take “responsibility” and buck up they could work themselves out of poverty.

Why do you think Walmart is paying hundreds of millions in wage settlements? The answer is because they have been caught breaking the law (again) and paying now will avoid the risk of a bigger claim if the cases went to trial.

Where does this continued illegal behavior figure in your “people can just shop (or work) elsewhere” theme?

I don’t like to comment without providing a some data to back up my claims. Here’s a link to a series done by the NY Times not long ago. The facts speak for themselves.

http://www.nytimes.com/pages/national/class/

Why would people defend Wal-Mart? Simply because they don’t believe anything “bad” about the company. I remember when Wal-Mart was trying to get in locally where I live. I had a pro Wal-Mart friend who could NOT BE convinced about anything bad concerning her favorite corporation.
I tried to tell Mary that Wal-Mart had approximately 630,000 workers that had NO HEALTH COVERAGE. (This was the approximate figure at the time.) Anyway her reply to me was “I don’t believe that.”
I could have directed this party to any number of books with those figures, and web sites as well. But I would have been wasting my time. Wal-Mart getting sued at least 2 to 5 times every single day? Oh, there was a web site that told you that too. But again, this party would not have gone there, and if they did, well, that just wasn’t true either.
Pro Wal-Mart folks spend a lot ot time defending Wal-Mart. Negative fitures? Bad reports? Emplouees being treated like garbage? Suppliers being squeezed and some driven out of business? NONE OF THIS IS TRUE ACCORDING TO THEM.
Never mind that much of this is already documented, they just won’t believe it.
I learned long time ago that it was a complete waste of my time to talk to a pro Wal-Marter. Let them believe what they want. You’ll never convinve them.

Jane:
If you haven’t seen this before it will help reinforce the conclusions you have come to on your own.

Psychologist Robert Altemeyer has a free, online book, dealing with such people (who he calls Right Wing Authoritarians). I’m sure you will recognize the type when you read some of his research.

If you want to read it, it’s at:

TheAuthoritarians.com

And, yes, he comes to the same conclusion as you do, trying to get them to face facts is a waste of time.

robertdfeinman,

“Psychologists have spent decades trying to understand those who can maintain their beliefs in the face of contradictory facts.”

Right, and they probably can’t understand YOUR beliefs, in the face of contradicting facts!!

“They refuse to understand that people really don’t have as much freedom of action in the current US as the fairytales they learned in elementary school civics classes.”

That is total ‘bull’, people control their own lives!!  If what you said was TRUE, everybody would be living in poverty, because we all live in the same society!! Not having children before marriage, not using drugs, not choosing welfare over work, and not living above your means, are all examples of behaviors that people can change to pave the way out of poverty!!  I can name many others, like not getting involved in gangs, studying in school, getting a higher education, etc.!!  People have ‘choices’ to make in life, if you make the ‘wrong’ ones, you end up in poverty, but if you make the ‘right’ ones, you can get out and ahead!!

“There is no point in arguing with such people, apparently their psychological stability requires that they keep believing that those trapped in lousy social and economic conditions are at fault. If they would only take “responsibility” and buck up they could work themselves out of poverty.”

It is YOU that has that ‘victim’ mentality, making excuses for people’s ‘bad’ behavior, you enable people to feel that they have no ‘chioce’, but are ‘trapped’ in their condition!!  People get out of poverty all the time, so it can be done!!  People who constantly tell people they are ‘trapped’ and can’t get out, are the one’s to blame for them not even trying, ‘Why run the race, if you are told you can’t win’, right?  Excuses, will NEVER replace TRYING!!

“Why do you think Walmart is paying hundreds of millions in wage settlements?”

Because of a thing called “class action lawsuits”, where NUMBERS trump FACTS!!  And, sympathetic jurers, who tend to reward those who don’t have ‘deep pockets’ and have the “Deep pockets can afford it”, anti big business mentality!!

“Where does this continued illegal behavior figure in your “people can just shop (or work) elsewhere” theme?”

That’s easy, if Wal-Mart is actually doing all of these so-called illegal things, why would you continue to shop or work there?  If you knew the car dealer on the corner, was selling ‘stolen cars’, would you buy one or go to work for them?

“Here’s a link to a series done by the NY Times not long ago. The facts speak for themselves.”

Any time an entity goes into an investigation, trying to prove a point, they can prove it, by twisting the situation!!  If I see Ms. X, with 5 children, not married and living on welfare, I can skip over the fact, that she had 5 children outside of a family unit, she isn’t getting child support from the father(s), and say “See, she is just a victim of society”, but, that doesn’t make it TRUE!!  She is a ‘victim’ of her own ‘bad’ choices!!  And, if she has child 6, that is her fault, not society’s!!

Quit encouraging people to continue to make bad choices, by saying they have no choice and the ‘race to the bottom’ can turn around, but, if you continue to blame Wal-Mart for all the world’s ills, you divert attention from the ‘real’ problems!!  Hope and clear thinking go a lot farther than giving up and excuses!!

Robertdfeinmen in Long Island, N.Y.--sounds like a great book. Thanks for the info, I will check it out!

Jane,

“I tried to tell Mary that Wal-Mart had approximately 630,000 workers that had NO HEALTH COVERAGE.”

Problem is, you don’t tell them WHY!!  Not your ‘B.S.- Wal-Mart doesn’t provide it’, but, it is ‘cheaper’ to go on government healthcare or are covered under other’s insurance!!  Saying they have NO HEALTHCARE COVERAGE isn’t true, that’s why they don’t believe you!!

robertdfienman,

“(who he calls Right Wing Authoritarians).”

Gee, I wonder if he is BIAS against conservatisim?  The use of the words “ Right Wing’, might be a ‘clue’!!  Robert Altemeyer sounds like a ‘Left Wing’ radical and an enabler of the ‘closed mind’, ‘victim’ mentality!!

Robert: You have yet to provide any facts. So there is no case about “contradicting facts” to be made.

I don’t “Defend Walmart” generally (unless they are subject to completely false accusations, or victimized by frivolous lawsuits, which does happen.

I merely support their right to offer their services and goods to others, without unnecessary government persecution or harassment from pseudo-grassroots organizations run by rich people.

A basic right anyone deserves. If you don’t like to shop there, go elsewhere. If you don’t like to work there, go elsewhere. After all, most stores and workplaces are non-Walmart.

And don’t lie about and insult those workers are shoppers whose interests are best met by dealing with Walmart.

---

RDS is right. Class action lawsuits like those discussed here are by nature completely frivolous, since almost all of the “plaintiffs” actually have no complaint, and never actually went to a lawyer or sued anyone.  RDS makes some great points to refute the vague and patronizing lies from Robert. And it comes to light that Robert is the most “authoritarian” person here, making false assumptions that what is good for him is good for everyone.

“Sometimes, you just have to stand up there and lie.”
By Hamilton Nolan, Feb 13 2008

In response to our call for lying flack stories, a tipster who works as “a high level advertising and marketing executive” brings us a story about Edelman, the huge PR firm that reps clients like Wal-Mart and Shell, and talks a lot about ethics in its marketing materials. So this little tale, while perhaps not surprising to those of you who have ever thought about the true meaning of “media training,” is still pretty blatant:

I’m a high-level advertising and marketing executive who’s hired - and used- some of the top PR firms in the nation.
As part of their “media training” they commonly tell you lying is fine.

From a direct quote within an Edelman (the nation’s largest independent PR firm) session, training our entire senior management team:

“Sometimes, you just have to stand up there and lie. Make the audience or the reporter believe that everything is ok. How many times have you heard a CEO stand up and say “No, I’m not leaving the company” and then - days later - he’s gone. Reporters understand that you “had” to do it and they won’t hold it against you in your next job when you deal with them again."~~~~~~~~~Gawker via Sourcewatch

RDS:
Methinks thou dost protest too much.
Altemyer is against “conservatives”.
The NY Times makes up statistics.
Walmart only gives in because class action suits are made up.

Tell me how is your life going? Why don’t you try to get a job as a CEO at a major firm? See if your educational background will be suitable. Why didn’t you graduate from Harvard with an MBA?

I don’t blame people for being poor and not having the skills to move up, I just feel sorry for them and do a modest amount of work toward making society more equitable.

You, on the other hand, write these people off all the time as lazy and shiftless and feel no compassion for them, only contempt. You seem to have all the characteristics you claim for me.

Sorry that you life is so blighted.

RDS-

You want statistics?  Read the Shipley report. 

Question how do you rise out of poverty at $7/hr?

How do you do it at $10/hr?  Please explain this to me.  Nobody else has been able to.  You have all the insight as to how it is the “persons” fault he is poor.

Here is your scenario.....You and your wife both make $10/hr.  You have two kids.  You have to set up a budget on your income.  You have a mortgage on a $100,000 house (I don’t think anyone will consider this house living beyond your means in the MAJORITY of the country, as this means you are living in a dump.) By comparison $115,000 will get you a 960 sf 2 bedroom 1 bath on .13 arces here in Baraboo.

So since I am not using AR prices, as most of the nation is above that I will even let you assume you work 40 hours a week at walmart (actual full time) and you make $10/hr.

You have to pay your mortgage, pay for your heat and electricity, food, clothing, school supplies for your kids, phone, car payment (you can have a $5,000 used car), pay for gas, insurance, maintainence.  Dont forget your health insurance and copays.

Now tell me again how it is so easy to get out of poverty.

WITHOUT MOVING TO ARKASAS.

Wal-Mart start paying your way! in Baraboo, WI

Please explain this to me.  How is it with free public education, free transportation to/from school, free or reduced price breakfast and lunch and free after school care that every individual cannot obtain at least a high school diploma?  Because with a high school education and a few years experience I find it hard to believe that you can’t make more than $10/hour with hard work and persistence.

@baraboo: “Now tell me again how it is so easy to get out of poverty. ....WITHOUT MOVING… “

So now you are placing limits, such as “can’t move”. I guess your scenario fits lazy sluggars who can’t be bothered to move to another place to make a better living.

robertdfienman,

“Altemyer is against “conservatives”.”

What would you call someone who uses the term “Right Wing” in his description of a group of people?

“The NY Times makes up statistics.”

I didn’t say that they MADE UP statistics, I said, that if the NY Times is just reporting what someone said, without investigating it’s validity, it is not facts!!

“Walmart only gives in because class action suits are made up.”

I didn’t say that the lawsuits were ‘made up’, but, in a ‘class action’ suit, anyone can jump on the bandwagon, whether they were injured or not, so Wal-Mart will usually settle out of court because of the numbers!!  If each case were filed separately, Wal-Mart would probably win 90% of them, but it would cost more in lawyers fees and court costs, than a settlement would be!!

“Tell me how is your life going? Why don’t you try to get a job as a CEO at a major firm?”

My life is going just fine, why?  And, what does becoming a CEO have to do with working your way out of poverty?

“I don’t blame people for being poor and not having the skills to move up”

Obviously, you don’t know any poor people ‘personally’!!  And, who would you blame for a person not learning and gaining skills, society?  Even though we have a mandatory public school system that actually teaches those things!!

“I just feel sorry for them”

That’s right, and I feel sorry for a drug addict, but, I don’t advocate claiming they can’t help it, so we should throw more money at them, so they can get in deeper!!  The poor, need to be taught how not to be poor, not felt sorry for!!  You don’t build self confidence in people, by feeling sorry for them!!

“You, on the other hand, write these people off all the time as lazy and shiftless and feel no compassion for them, only contempt.”

First, I have no ‘contempt’ for poor people, I have quite a few friends who are poor!!  Second, I do not think they are ALL lazy and shiftless, but, I have met many who are!!  Third, I do not write off anyone and have enough compassion for them, that I try to help them learn how not to be poor!!  There is a big difference between having compassion and enabling!!  If I teach someone to budget better, that is compassion, but if I just did it for them, that’s enabling!!  I have helped a number of people get on the road to a ‘better’ life, by showing them where the ‘holes’ in their choices were!!

Wal-Mart start paying,

“Question how do you rise out of poverty at $7/hr?”

You find a second source of income, say working weekends at McDonalds!!  Or, find a ‘higher paying job!!

Using your senerio:

Two working at $10.00/hr each, times 40/hrs week = $800.00/week income gross, $528.00/week net, times 4.3 weeks a month = $2,270.00/ month net!!

Mortgage Payment: - $638.88/mo. ($1,631.12 left).  Car payment - $200.00/mo. ($1,431.12 left).  Heat & Elect. - $250.00/mo. (Average) ($1,181.12 left).  Food - $430.00/mo. ($751.12 left).  Phone & Internet - $75.00/mo. ($676.12 left).

Clothing, school supplies for your kids, pay for gas, insurance (car insurance rate depends on your driving record), maintainence, health insurance and copays, all these things are subject to change each month and flexible (do you buy clothing, school supplies, pay co-pays, and pay for maintenence, EVERY month?), so they can be budgeted from the $676.12/mo. left over!!  Also, Elect. and Heat, depends on how much you leave your lights on and the temp. you set your thermostat at, and your food bill depends on what you ‘choose’ to eat, so that too is flexible!!  There are many areas that can be reduced to fit your budget!!

BTW: If you are living in ‘poverty’, why would you be buying a $100,000.00 house, instead of renting?

“By comparison $115,000 will get you a 960 sf 2 bedroom 1 bath on .13 arces here in Baraboo.”

You can get a nice 1200 sf, 3 bedroom, 1 1/2 bath, w/2 car att. garage on .25 acre here for about $110,000.00, maybe even ‘cheaper’ right now!!

realist in e.g.-

“So now you are placing limits, such as “can’t move”. I guess your scenario fits lazy sluggars who can’t be bothered to move to another place to make a better living.”

Would you move half way across the country to make $8/hr.?  I am not talking about anyone who has any skill, I am talking about the low skilled retail, fast food, oil change, minimum wage worker.  Would you relocate your whole family away from the rest of your family to go from one walmart to another?

JOe in-

You find it hard to believe?  Take a look around.  According to 2007 Statistics, for my town.  40% of all household incomes is under $35,000/yr.  59% of all households are under $50,000/yr.  Yet 84% of the population has a high school degree.  That means 4 out of 10 households make under $17.5/hr. in a two earner household that is $8.75/hr per person.  for the next 19% it is two $12.5/hr wages added together.  That is a lot of people working under $10 hr.

The race to the bottom is good. There is no good reason to be overcharged for anything.

The lack of scope of your economic view is stunning, realist. Why pay a dollar to make it here when a slave in Bangladesh will make it for 4¢? And surely we can cut that down to a handful of rice.

There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man’s lawful prey. ~ John Ruskin

jane you are so full of it as usual on here.maam all your favorite high cost stores treat workers far less than walmart does and have many more lawsuits as well so get off your high horse about walmart because we never hear crap from you on your favorite joints doing far worse crap than wm does.how do i know you ask?because i have worked for two of your favorites jane and observed stuff unlike you.stop buying all the united food and commercial workers union bunk and garbage fed to you on here jane.no one forces anyone to shop at or work at wm jane.if everyone is so unhappy and poorly paid there like you claim then why dont we have all employees quit then?guess what maam its none of your business how walmart treats and pays its workers because you have no say in it and dont work there and you dont run wm.

I’m not really a fan of Bruce Springsteen’s music but I do understand that he is demonized for being some kind of (supposed) flaming radical - or at least that’s what Fox News would have you believe - so this is ironic.  What’s sad is that maybe these artists have to make a deal with Wal-Mart at this point because it is the world’s largest (and is frigteningly looking like the soon to be ONLY) retailer in the world, despite their own personal feelings.  I don’t like the company, either, but I still need a paycheck - in fact, there aren’t too many corporations that I DO like but you do what you have to.

Wal-Mart start paying,

“Would you move half way across the country to make $8/hr.?”

I’ll answer that, because I did it!!  I was making $11.50/hr. and moved from Wisconsin to Arkansas, where I started out at $5.25/hr., that may sound ‘nuts’ to you, but I don’t regret that decision one bit and I’ll tell you why!!

First and formost, is ‘cost of living’, my $5.25/hr. gave me more buying power here than the $11.50/hr. did in Waisonsin!!  A good example is something you brought up, housing prices, if I were to buy a house like I have in Wisc., it would have cost me about $150,000.00, I paid $55,000.00, think about the total cost difference (Interest) over a 30 year mortgage!!  Then, add up real estate taxes, (I paid about $1,700.00/yr. in Wisc., $350.00/yr. in Ark.), heating costs are quite a lot less, (yesterday it was 70 degrees here, and I was told, in LaCrosse, Wi. it was about 32 degrees), food is ‘cheaper’, gas is ‘cheaper’, don’t need a ‘snowblower’ ( very little snow), the list goes on and on about the benefits!!  So, that $5.25/hr. was much more ‘valuable’, than the $11.50/hr.!!

Then, there is ‘living conditions’, moving from a ‘big city’ ghetto type community, to a ‘smaller city’ community, can ‘reap’ many ‘valuable’ changes in your way of ‘thinking’, don’t you think you have a different way of thinking, than if you lived in Madison or Milwaukee?  And, don’t you think that you can live ‘cheaper’ in Baraboo, than in Madison or Milwaukee?  So, it would follow that someone living in NY City, might be better off living in say, Oak Ridge, Tenn.!!

As for families, sometimes they can hold you back from obtaining your true potential and in my case, most of my family ended up moving too, when they saw the difference it made in my life!!

My question to you, is: Why would you want to STAY in an area where you know your life won’t change for the better and will probably get worse?

“moving from a ‘big city’ ghetto type community, to a ‘smaller city’ community, can ‘reap’ many ‘valuable’ changes in your way of ‘thinking’,"~~~RDS

oiving to Arkansas changes one’s way of thinking? Could be. To wit:~~~~~~"There are 3 distinct regions of blue states… the West Coast, the upper Mid-West (Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, and Michigan), and the upper East Coast and the New England states.

Take a look at how Arkansas (a Red State in 2004) compares on several key metrics.  The number that follows is the BNATIONAL ranking.

PERSONS 25 YEARS OLD AND OVER WITH A BACHELOR’S DEGREE OR MORE, 2005
Arkansas 49
West Virginia 50

PERSONAL INCOME PER CAPITA IN CURRENT DOLLARS, 2005
Arkansas 47
West Virginia 48

Doctors Per 100,000 Population, 2004
Arkansas 44
West Virginia 33

There is one ranking where you don’t want to be ranked No. 1:

MOBILE HOMES, PERCENT OF TOTAL HOUSING UNITS, 2005
Arkansas 8

I guess it makes more and more sense why RDS says the things he says.

“I also get a charge out of ‘Sanford and Son”, “Green Acres” and ‘Good times” as well, because they show how people accept ‘poverty’ as being the best way of life.” ~RDS

ScrewedbyWal-Mart in Anytown, America
Wednesday, May 14 at 03:08 PM~~~~~~~~~~~NOTE: The entire thread [ from which this post was excerpted ]deals etensively with this issue-entitled “WalMart Continues to Focus on Expansion”,May,08. Also"Daily Show on China Toy Recall “August,07 is particularly informative.

Note: I’m having difficulty with several of the keys on my keyboard...hence some typos.

RDS-

What happens to your cost of living and bang for your buck if one person from every community with a high standard of living moves to your community.  You become the next Milwaukee or Chicago. Then what do you do, move again to find another “hick” town that doesn’t have a major population? 

How about your schools.....they represent your communities future.

Baraboo vs Rogers

% of students receiving free lunch Baraboo 9%(2007) Rogers 34% (2006)

student teacher ratio:  Baraboo 15.3:1 Rogers 21.1:1 (2004) both schools

Baraboo Average test scores:
Subject Grade Score Year
Language Arts 10 68 2003
Language Arts 10 73 2004
Language Arts 10 65 2005
Language Arts 10 69 2006
Math 10 76 2003
Math 10 72 2004
Math 10 69 2005
Math 10 75 2006
Reading 10 72 2003
Reading 10 73 2004
Reading 10 72 2005
Reading 10 81 2006
Science 10 76 2006

Rogers Average test scores:
Test Subject Grade Score Year
Literacy 11 49.9 2003
Literacy 11 51 2004
Literacy 11 54 2005
Algebra I 29 2004
Algebra I 42 2005
Geometry 15 2004
Geometry 55 2005

What a cost of living.  All your average scores are failing grades!!!  ALL OF THEM.  But congrats you went from 15% to 55% in geometry.  Looks to me like I want no part of the future of Rogers.

Your violent crime rate is higher, your schools are worse, and 34% of the families are low income enough to qualify for FREE lunches.  How many are receiving REDUCED lunches.

Great “value” for you.  Good to see you don’t value much.

RDS-

http://www.bestplaces.net/school/SchoolStats.aspx?uid=0500917&udid=10500273

http://www.bestplaces.net/school/SchoolStats.aspx?uid=5500114&udid=15500047

Here is where I got my numbers from.

ddrb

If you are trying to blame Arkansas’s woes on Walmart, you should probably concentrate on northwest Arkansas where Walmart HQ is located.  The rest of Arkansas has their proportion of Walmart’s just like any other state in the Midwest.

I would bet that if you looked at statistics from NW Arkansas, that area would rate as one of the more affluent in the US.

ddrb

Here is a link for Benton County Arkansas where Walmart HQ is located. http://www.stats.indiana.edu/uspr/a/usprofiles/05/us_over_sub_pr05007.html

The ratings are against other counties in the US.  I don’t know how many counties are in the US, but based on most Midwest states, there is an average of about 100/state or 5000 in the US.  Benton County rates in the top 40% or better in all categories.  For BS degrees, they rank 399 out of 5000.  That is somewhere near the top 8%. 

That pretty well shoots your statistics all to hell.

So why are you in OKC ? BTW, are you a product of Arkansas? Your reading comprehension is lacking. Read the post again. That was Screwed’s original post which I excerpted[and gave reference to.]However, if you go to the ORIGINAL thread story,( “WalMart Continues to Focus on Expansion”,May,08)there is much more info. I especially question WHY isn’t the WalMart effect felt on the ENTIRE state,not just NW Arkansas,i.e. it doesn’t seem much” trickles down” to anybody else in the rest of the state of Arkansas, except the NW corner-home of the Waltons and their immediate satellite of minions.

ddrb

Grasping at straws aren’t we?  The question is not why Walmart doesn’t bring up the stats for Arkansas.  The question is why should it?  There is no more enfluence by Walmart is Eldorado Arkansas than in Eldorado Kansas.

Many parts of Oklahoma, Kansas and Missouri are closer to Walmart than Arkansas.

As far as my reading comprehension, it has nothing to do with it.  You compiled a long list of stats which showed Arkansas at the bottom of the barrel.  Either you were trying to link ti to Walmart, or your link was worthless.  I opt for worthless regardless of your intent.

John ,put the bottle down for the night.

ddrb

It is kind of like what Churchill said.  I may be drunk, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be stupid.

Making an argument on behalf of WalMart for wages and jobs as the typical pro-WalMart propaganda slaves that post here do, is in effect making an argument to justify poverty. It is the WalMart way.

WalMart- We are the nation’s #1 poverty engine. We just don’t want America to believe it.

http://www.arkansasliteracy.org/

“According to the 2000 United States Census, Arkansas has 1,993,031 residents age 18 and over. Of this number, 491,000, or almost 25 percent, do not have a high school diploma. Of the 491,000 Arkansans, 170,420 have less than an eighth-grade education.”

ddrb,

Please explain this to me.  How is it with free public education in Arkansas, free transportation to/from school, free or reduced price breakfast and lunch and free after school care that every individual in Arkansas cannot obtain at least a high school diploma?  Is that also Walmart’s fault that “almost 25 percent do not have a hight school diploma”?

Again how is this Walmart’s fault?????????????????

Wal-Mart start paying,

I think it’s kind of revealing, how you used Language Arts for Baraboo, and Literacy for Rogers, and Math for Baraboo, and Geometry & Algebra for Rogers, and didn’t post the results for Reading or Science for Rogers!!

“What happens to your cost of living and bang for your buck if one person from every community with a high standard of living moves to your community.”

That is exactly what is happening, the population around here, has tripled since I moved here!!  And, soon, Fayetteville, Springdale, Tontitown, Lowell, Johnson, Rogers and Bentonville, will all become one ‘Big City’!!  But, that’s kind of my point, getting in on the ground floor of a city that is growing, for someone in ‘poverty’, can reap big rewards, my $55,000.00 house is now ‘valued’ at about $120,000.00, giving me a $65,000.00 gain in equity!!

“Your violent crime rate is higher, your schools are worse, and 34% of the families are low income enough to qualify for FREE lunches.”

Rogers - Estimated median household income in 2007: $48,605.

Baraboo - The median household income is $43,540.

When you take into account, that Rogers has a population almost 3 times bigger than Baraboo, that may put your figures more into perspective!!

Also, Rogers and Springdale were listed as the ‘best places to live’ in the U.S., back to back, a few years back!!

“Looks to me like I want no part of the future of Rogers.”

That’s your ‘choice’ and in my eyes, your ‘loss’!!  Go ahead, put up with your 3 feet of snow, high heating bills and high taxes and good luck with that!!  Remember, I’ve been to Baraboo, have you ever been to NW Arkansas?

ddrb,

Too bad we don’t know what STATE you live in, so we could compare the figures you posted for Arkansas, with YOUR state!!

So far, all we know, is that you live in the State of Confusion!!

Elementary and Secondary Education - Encyclopedia of ArkansasNov 12, 2008 ... Although Arkansas ranked thirty-seventh in literacy, .... There was much enthusiasm for charter schools that would be free from bureaucratic ...
www.encyclopediaofarkansas.net/encyclopedia/entry-detail.aspx?entryID=389 - 155k ~~~~~~~~~~~NOTE: This will provide you with some background on the Arkansan educational system, if you take the time to actually read it. BTW, I never said it was WalMart’s fault. What I said was,imho, that WalMart’s influence has not extended beyond NW Arkansas to the rest of the state.I haven’t seen Walton donated libraries-as Carnegie did. Where are Walton vocational schools? Nursing schools? PreK and after school programs? These would be worthwhile endeavors to elevate the quality of life for the entire state, a state that has given so much to the Waltons-yet received so little in return. Check out Even Start,too.

Baraboo: Check out Jonah Tebbett’s blospot,The Iconoclast. Very slick and wryly written, enormously entertaining and informative commentary about the daily dish in Northwest Arkansas-including Rogers,Bentoville, Fayetteville, Bella Vista , and Springdale-a.k.a. Chickendale. This site has been called the best thing to come out of NW Arkansas!

RDS-

I used Lang. Arts and Math vs. Literacy and Algebra, Geometry because that is the way they are reported.

“When you take into account, that Rogers has a population almost 3 times bigger than Baraboo, that may put your figures more into perspective!!”

How about Madison, WI vs. Rogers, AR Madison has a population almost 5 times bigger than Rogers and their scores are ALL higher than Rogers.  Does that put it in more perspective for you?

RDS-

How about those who actually take the same test.  The ACT college entrance exams.  Numbers from ACT’s own website.

% of students ready for AR WI Nation
College English Composition 70 77 68
College Algebra 35 54 43
College Social Science 49 61
College Biology 22 38
All Four Areas 17 30

Sorry hit wrong button

National averages in

Social Science 53
Biology 28
All four 22

Arkansas is below national averages in every category but one.  Note Wisconsin is well above average in all.

Here is the website....

http://www.act.org/news/data.html

ddrb

I was correct.  I am sober and you are still stupid.

ddrb

Pardon me, if I repeat some of my posts from last night.  I can’t seem to remember what I posted.

Here is a link for Benton County Arkansas where Walmart HQ is located. http://www.stats.indiana.edu/uspr/a/usprofiles/05/us_over_sub_pr05007.html

The ratings are against other counties in the US.  There are about 3100 counties in the US.  Benton County rates in the top 60% or better in all categories.  For BS degrees, they rank 399 out of 3100.  That is somewhere near the top 12%. 

That pretty well shoots your statistics all to hell.

John in OKC-

The argument is about the STATE of AR educational system.  I understand that those of you who live in Benton County think that IS the state, but you have to account for the WHOLE state.

Don’t be so proud of your statistics.......go to your own site and compare it to St. Louis County in Minnestoa.  It is a little farther down on the list but is comparable in size and they beat for BS degrees they rank higher.

Look again you rank 695 out of 3100 by my math that is 22.4% NOT EVEN CLOSE TO THE TOP TEN PERCENT.

Matter of fact POVERTY RATE FOR THE STATE IS 2686 OUT OF 3100 means 86.6% of ALL the counties have a lower poverty rate than you.  So what you are saying is that basically in Benton county if you don’t have a college degree you have to live in poverty.  22.4+88.6=101%

1% error works for any statistical survey I have ever seen.

Your numbers you argue them.

Wal-Mart start paying your way! in Baraboo, WI

No the argument is about Walmart.  ddrb was trying to pin the state of Arkansas’s education on Walmart.  It makes no sense and you can find no reputable education person who would do so.

The most representative is Benton County or even the city of Bentonville itself.  That county has a record it can be proud of.  As far as finding one county in the US which is better, so what?  There are other counties better than St. Louis County in Minnestoa.

Your argument is weak to non-existent.

John in OKC-

“That county has a record it can be proud of.”

I would be proud of an 88.6% poverty rate!!

“As far as finding one county in the US which is better, so what?”

I could find 694 of them I went to one the same size and it doesn’t have the income of walmarts headquarters.  That is my point.  If walmart and thier income benefits the community so much........shouldn’t they be way ahead of another county with the same population without those resources?

Wal-Mart start paying,

“The argument is about the STATE of AR educational system.  I understand that those of you who live in Benton County think that IS the state, but you have to account for the WHOLE state.”

My argument is about MY area, because that’s where I live!!  I could care less about what is happening in some other area, because if my grandchildren are going to school, they go to school in my area, not some other part of the state!!  If an area has poor schools, it is up to the taxpayers in tht area to fix their problems!!  We can sit for hours comparing one city in Ark. against another in Wis. or your state against mine, but the focus should be on what one family living in ‘poverty’ can do to get out of ‘poverty’, not the pros and cons of states!!

ddrb,

“What I said was,imho, that WalMart’s influence has not extended beyond NW Arkansas to the rest of the state.”

At one point in time, General Motors was the largest corporation in the world, check out the state of Michigan and see what impact GM had on the whole state!!  The top third of the state and Upper Michigan, have some very poor cities and rural areas, where was GM’s impact on them?  Even ‘Big Cities’ like New York and Chicago, have their ‘poverty’ areas, what do you think a company can do, that the state and cities can’t?  One or two companies, can’t support a whole state and if your state was poor to begin with, it’s takes a long time to turn it around, because you don’t have the tax base to get the money to make the changes!!

“Check out Jonah Tebbett’s blospot,The Iconoclast.”

Yeah, if you are ‘goofy’, you will find that Jonah is right in your class!!  His ‘wacky’ views will be right up you alley!!  Like his one about building a WALL between Fayetteville and Springdale, that sounds like a good use of taxpayers funds, now doesn’t it?

Critics question company’s motives

With a combined fortune of more than $90 billion, the Waltons--the immediate heirs of Wal-Mart founder Sam Walton--are the richest family in the world. Five of the country’s ten richest individuals are members of Sam’s immediate family: his wife, Helen, and their three surviving children--Rob, Jim and Alice--as well as his late son John’s widow, Christy (John Walton died in June when his private plane crashed). Until recently, however, they gave away little of their fortune. As Sam Walton explained in his 1992 autobiography, Made in America, he didn’t believe in giving “any undeserving stranger a free ride.” Nor did he believe in being generous with company profits. “We feel very strongly,” he wrote, “that Wal-Mart really is not, and should not be, in the charity business.” Money that Wal-Mart donated to charity, he reasoned, would only come out of the pockets of “either our shareholders or our customers.” (He didn’t mention workers, perhaps a tacit acknowledgment that picking their pockets was just business as usual.).......

Both the family and the company have made education a major funding priority. Many of the WFF’s education gifts have a distinct ideological tilt, emphasizing a “free market” approach to education reform, a vision the late John Walton embraced with particular enthusiasm. The WFF funds advocacy groups promoting conservative school “reform"--otherwise known as privatization--like the Center for Education Reform and the Black Alliance for Educational Options, as well as the actual programs these groups champion: charter schools and voucher programs. (The BAEO did not return calls for this article.) ....

Among such projects, the Waltons tend to fund the most mind-numbing and cultish, giving in 2003 alone nearly $3 million to Knowledge Is Power (KIPP) schools and millions more to other schools using the KIPP curriculum, which emphasizes regimented recitation rather than critical or creative thinking. Particularly widespread in low-income neighborhoods, such schools seem bent on disciplining and exhorting the poor rather than developing human potential (much like Wal-Mart as a workplace, with its relentless company cheers and dead-end jobs). Several years ago the principal of New York City’s John A. Reisenbach Charter School, which uses the KIPP curriculum and received $118,000 from the Waltons in 2003, told me proudly, as we watched fidgety second graders chant meaningless slogans, “We are getting them ready for business.”

The WFF has become the single largest source of funding for the voucher and charter school movement. Walton funding allows some charter schools to spend more per pupil than “competing” public schools. The ironic result is that while these projects are supposed to demonstrate to the public the wonders of a marketized approach to education, the WFF’s money gives its grantees an advantage over other schools, allowing them to perform better than they would otherwise. “[The Waltons] claim to support competition and the free market,” says Paul Dunphy, a policy analyst for Citizens for Public Schools, a Boston-based coalition, “but actually they are manipulating the market, conferring advantage on their pet projects.”....... [cont.]

It’s a fitting paradox, since the Wal-Mart economic model, like almost anything held up as an example of the beauty of the free market, contains so many contradictions (yes, it’s extremely profitable, but look at all those tax subsidies). Because so much Walton and Wal-Mart philanthropy is crudely self-interested, it’s tempting to find an equally crude motive for the Walton family’s interest in education; many Wal-Mart critics have assumed that the Waltons must be planning to reap several more fortunes through for-profit education companies. That’s not completely baseless: John Walton was briefly involved in such a venture. However, he backed out, realizing such profiteering was hurting the credibility of his education reform efforts. And so far, for-profit education is still not a very profitable industry--especially when compared with retail.

The Waltons’ motives for supporting the privatization of education seem--at this writing, anyway--to be ideological, even idealistic, rather than an elaborate backdrop to a new money-making scheme. Like many rich Americans who have helped to finance the far right’s rise to power, they have embraced a worldview in which what’s good for the wealthy is good for everyone else. And greater cultural acceptance of the unfettered market--through an increasing tolerance for privatization of all kinds--will certainly make the world safer for a family business that thrives on weak government and lack of regulation. But it’s also likely that the Waltons, like most right-wingers, sincerely believe that their ideas have the potential to improve people’s lives. Why wouldn’t the Waltons genuinely believe in the free market? Look how well it has served them.

“The Waltons could be an enormous force for good,” says Responsible Wealth’s Chuck Collins. “As the company’s biggest shareholders, they could decide that Wal-Mart could pay a living wage. They could use their charitable dollars not to undermine public education but to boost educational opportunity. They could become major contributors to social good. But they’re not.”

One item in the Walton Family Foundation’s most recent IRS filing shows how uninterested this family is in true social responsibility: a measly $6,000 to something called the Wal-Mart Associates in Need Fund. Contrast that with the millions the family spends promoting right-wing causes, and it becomes painfully clear that the Waltons value conservative ideology far more than they value the human beings who have made them the richest family on earth.~~~~~~~~~”

By Liza Featherstone

First published in the Nov. 21, 2005 issue of The Nation~via Reclaim Democracy.org

I could care less about what is happening in some other area..RDS~~~~~~~NOTE: Always” me first” and” me and mine only”,right RDS?

Saturday, December 27, 2008
Funding Educational Futures
The Fayetteville School Board has wisely committed to building a world-class high school on the current campus, and it is exploring an exciting new approach for teaching and learning to educate students for the 21st century. To get there, it will take a combination of state and local funding, and that will be a challenge.

Local funding will mean a property tax increase approved by the voters. If Bobby New will just get gone and forgotten, there is a chance that the Board and patrons can get together, have a two-way discussion, and agree on a campaign to get it done. State funding is more problematic, because the rural coalitions from the eastern and southern counties will oppose any new funding for “wealthy” districts in Northwest Arkansas. They don’t think we need any more state funding up in this corner, and all of our local Republican legislators send that message everytime they vote against taxes and spending.

Changing the school building formula is unlikely. The deck is stacked against Fayetteville and the growing urban districts, because the state tax code is heavily influenced by the Farm Bureau and premised on welfare for plantations and the corporate timber interests. That is, rural land is by law assessed considerably below market value. In addition, rural districts with large federal land holdings (such as the national forests or the Buffalo National River) get payments in lieu of taxes.

So, here’s an idea for our local legislators to help solve the problem. Despite all the cheap talk about being partners and good neighbors, the University of Arkansas pays not a dime of property tax to the city or the local school district on its billions of dollars worth of land and buildings. All of those large new buildings and those acres of agricultural farm land require city services, but the UA doesn’t pay anything, much less its fair share.

Let’s enact a provision for state appropriations from general revenues “in lieu of property taxes” to the cities, counties, and school districts wherein state institutions are located. Since we have so damned many two-year colleges and four-year universities, it should be easy to build a coalition and get the votes. If we could get the owners of the Cosmopolitan to pay the $13, 734 they owe in delinquent property taxes, then add in about 300 times that amount a year from a state luau fund, we should be flush enough to pay off the school bonds without a millage increase.
Posted by Jonah at Saturday, December 27, 2008 ~~The Iconoclast~~~~Note: The comments are interesting,too.

Wal-Mart start paying your way! in Baboonvile, WI

“I would be proud of an 88.6% poverty rate!!”

I am sorry.  You are going to have to show this old Okie where the 88.6% poverty rate in Benton County comes from. 

It was just another idiiotic unsubstantiated statement on your part.

John in OKC-

You are right I got my numbers mixed up.  Benton County has a 9.1% poverty rate.  This gives it a ranking of 2686 out of 3100.  Therefore 88.6% of the counties have less poverty than Benton County. 

My Bad.  Got my numbers mixed up in my head should have reread before I hit submit.

Look on the bright side ....... there are 11.4% of the counties that are poorer!

John in OKC-

I went back and double checked the stats....and when I am wrong I will say it.  The poverty numbers run in reverse order than the other ones.  That is the one column you want to be on the bottom of. 

MY APOLOGIES.  YOU WERE RIGHT.

Wal-Mart start paying your way! in Baraboo, WI

I appreciate that and I wish you a Happy New Year.

ddrb,

“Always” me first” and” me and mine only”,right RDS?”

If you had learned how to read, (without spin), you would have noticed I was talking about my community, not me and my family!!  But, beside that, what’s WRONG with someone looking out for theirself and family?  Or, is it only up to the government to look out for everyone?

And, as for the Walton’s, they don’t tell you what to do with YOUR money, where do you get off telling them what to do with their’s?

Also, there is this SPIN article you posted:

“Money that Wal-Mart donated to charity, he reasoned, would only come out of the pockets of “either our shareholders or our customers.” (He didn’t mention workers, perhaps a tacit acknowledgment that picking their pockets was just business as usual.).......”

This makes it sound like Sam Walton didn’t care about his workers, (with the added comment), but what he actually said, translated, was that stockholders and customers SUPPLY the money to run the business and any profits should be given back to THEM, not charity (people who didn’t give any money) and workers don’t give money to the company either (they are paid for what they contribute, in the form of wages)!!  His point was, that the money (profits) DIDN"T belong to the company, so they had NO RIGHT to GIVE it away, but rather it was their obligation to give it back to shareholders (dividends) and customers (in the form of lower prices)!!

RDS-

There is no obligation to give back profits in the form of dividend to any stockholder with the exception of preferred stock.  Common stock does not GUARANTEE dividends.  Their value is mostly based upon market capitialization.  If the price goes up and they sell they make a profit.  Some companies do pay dividends to common stock, many do not as they are not obligated to do so.  These stock owners are not investors into the company.  They are speculators in a companies viablility in the stock market.

Preferred stock holders are primarily cash investors in a company, therefore in the case of liquidation of the company they have PREFERRED status to get their money in the case of a bankruptcy over the distribution of the assets.  Bond holders get priority over both preferred and common stock holders.  Preferred stock prices are determined by interest rates not stock market prices.  Preferred stockholders do not have a voting interest in the company like common stockholders do even though they have “ownership” of a company.  However they are GUARANTEED dividends. 

Profits DO belong to a company.  Profits are after dividends are payed.  Since dividends are a liability and profits are an asset, Net Profit is ammount of assets minus liabilities.  So to say that the profits belong to the stock holders is a myth.  You pay the stock holders out of the profits but you do not pay them THE profits.  By the way 43.37% of all stock holders is made up of 27 people (the 4 Waltons and corporate officers) so in a sense Walmart is paying itself and its management almost HALF of all dividends payed.
These numbers come directly from Walmarts own 2008 Proxy Statement.  The Waltons alone own 1.69 billion shares of the 3.95 billion shares outstanding.

So in summary they have every RIGHT to GIVE it away if they so choose.  Their share holders have already been compensated.  Hence the term NET PROFIT.

And for my nineteenth birthday I got a union card and a wedding coat... Bruce Springsteen The River

Wal-Mart start paying your way!  In Baraboo, WI

Why are you bothering to explain anything to RDS? He is a pro Wal-Marter from the word go. It doesn’t matter how many facts or figures you may have. Pro Wal-Marters simply won’t believe ANYTHING YOU TELL THEM. They refuse to believe anything NEGATIVE about their beloved Wal-Mart. I stopped wasting my time talking to those type of folks a long time ago.

Jane,

And, you Wal-Mart Haters, refuse to believe anything the other side has to say, as well, so what’s your point?

“I stopped wasting my time talking to those type of folks a long time ago.”

That is because you have a ‘closed mind’ and refuse to hear what others with a different view than you have, present!!  After all, you know it all and accept only things that ‘support’ your view and disregard any facts that are opposed to your views!!  We are still waiting for you to say something of ‘substance’, except for your claiming Wal-Mart is ‘bad’ and how you have helped STOP stores from being built in your area!!  There is no MEAT on the BONE you keep tossing around!!

Wal-Mart start paying,

“Profits DO belong to a company.  Profits are after dividends are payed.”

No matter how you slice it, a company is actually OWNED by PEOPLE and the net profits, will go to those PEOPLE if and when a company closes it’s doors, so while the net profits are being held and used to finance company business, the company cannot just give it all away, without permission from the PEOPLE who OWN it, which are the stock and bond holders, be it Preferred or Common or bond holders!!  The CEO can’t just say, “Let’s just give the $12 billion in net profit to charity”, he has a fiscal ‘responsibility’ to maximize profits, not to reduce them!!